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Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic

Amazon Climber said:
I used to feel bad about the schadenfreude I got out of that too. Then I got my diabetes diagnosis. Now it feels like laughing at someone who drove 80 down a side street, almost ran me over, and then got wrapped around a telephone pole. Sure, tragedy, loss of life, whatever. It's still hard to feel sorry for someone who'd idly kill you through sheer dumbassery.
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You… you think your diabetes was caused by getting the coof?
 
whatdotheymean said:
You… you think your diabetes was caused by getting the coof?
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I'm not sure if you could have drawn a more nonsensical conclusion, but I think it would be awfully hard. Diabetes gives me a much higher chance of dying from it, or suffering severe and/or long-term complications.
 
Amazon Climber said:
I'm not sure if you could have drawn a more nonsensical conclusion, but I think it would be awfully hard. Diabetes gives me a much higher chance of dying from it, or suffering severe and/or long-term complications.
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Pretty sure that's more being old and/or fat, which are both huge risk factors for diabetes.
 
As it so happens, Covid-19 causes organ damage (which ones? all the ones containing blood vessels), so yes it can absolutely cause or aggravate existing pancreatic function problems.

A lot of illnesses can fuck up your organs long-term, as it turns out. Even influenza has had its time in the spotlight. The 1918 edition was especially noteworthy in its ability to do this (and the current ones are just (much) less likely to do so, but never lost the ability).

Much more fun and which I think hasn't been mentioned in the thread? It's not mainly droplets. It never was. A lot of stuff is airborne. Covid is very much not the first and we've known since at least 1962 but the sensitive pride of medical professionals as well as a phobia of anything even remotely reminiscent of miasmatic theory instead led them to throw caution to the wind.

So yeah, air filtration is essential and N95 respirators (or equivalents & better) are strongly advisable.

edit: Source-controlled N95-grade respirators (i.e. filtered on both inhalation & exhalation, not valved) are preferable for indoor spaces. Outdoors feel free to only filter your own air.
 
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da3monh0st3d said:
As it so happens, Covid-19 causes organ damage (which ones? all the ones containing blood vessels), so yes it can absolutely cause or aggravate existing pancreatic function problems.

A lot of illnesses can fuck up your organs long-term, as it turns out. Even influenza has had its time in the spotlight. The 1918 edition was especially noteworthy in its ability to do this (and the current ones are just (much) less likely to do so, but never lost the ability).

Much more fun and which I think hasn't been mentioned in the thread? It's not mainly droplets. It never was. A lot of stuff is airborne. Covid is very much not the first and we've known since at least 1962 but the sensitive pride of medical professionals as well as a phobia of anything even remotely reminiscent of miasmatic theory instead led them to throw caution to the wind.

So yeah, air filtration is essential and N95 respirators (or equivalents & better) are strongly advisable.

edit: Source-controlled N95-grade respirators (i.e. filtered on both inhalation & exhalation, not valved) are preferable for indoor spaces. Outdoors feel free to only filter your own air.
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Yes, essentially we could have had six decades of buildings better designed to remove airborne pathogens. But we do not.
 
zup said:
Yes, essentially we could have had six decades of buildings better designed to remove airborne pathogens. But we do not.
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Ironically and a bit frustratingly, there actually was some effort after the 1918-1920 pandemic to do exactly that, but they mostly fell to the wayside in the meantime (it doesn't help that filtration & sanitation technology mostly wasn't there yet, so it was largely ventilation-only).

That time & incident is actually where the mask-wearing in Japan (among others) comes from.
 
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My mom still has an appetite and can still taste things. Maybe it's just the flu?
 
This might be on me for only going through the last 5 pages instead of all 55 but I don't understand the people in this thread. All the screeching about evil anti-vaxxers and how they should all be dead. Why do you people care so much?

When this entire debacle happened, remember all the politicians yelling that you're "safe" and "protected" and that you can't transmit the virus once you get jabbed? So if you people are oh so safe, then why do you care so much about people who aren't? Isn't it their own choice to take the risk? I don't get why you people are so manic about it.
 
TrAiT0r said:
This might be on me for only going through the last 5 pages instead of all 55 but I don't understand the people in this thread. All the screeching about evil anti-vaxxers and how they should all be dead. Why do you people care so much?

When this entire debacle happened, remember all the politicians yelling that you're "safe" and "protected" and that you can't transmit the virus once you get jabbed? So if you people are oh so safe, then why do you care so much about people who aren't? Isn't it their own choice to take the risk? I don't get why you people are so manic about it.
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I can't speak for everyone but there are people who can't get the vaccines, and Anti-Vaxxers are putting the lives of these people at risk. And Anti-Vaxxers are also effect the lives of their children.
 
TrAiT0r said:
This might be on me for only going through the last 5 pages instead of all 55 but I don't understand the people in this thread. All the screeching about evil anti-vaxxers and how they should all be dead. Why do you people care so much?

When this entire debacle happened, remember all the politicians yelling that you're "safe" and "protected" and that you can't transmit the virus once you get jabbed? So if you people are oh so safe, then why do you care so much about people who aren't? Isn't it their own choice to take the risk? I don't get why you people are so manic about it.
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Because you see, most of the antivaxxers are also going to try to get their relatives to follow their idiotic cause.

Like parents who have denied their children even a simple anti measles vaccine because vaccination is a cause for autism or the kids don't need such useless things.

Cue preventable tragic results.

Not only that, these people are also in a Venn Diagram with problematic political positions either left or right wing that join the loudmouths in spreading stupidity and willful ignorance.
 
TrAiT0r said:
When this entire debacle happened, remember all the politicians yelling that you're "safe" and "protected" and that you can't transmit the virus once you get jabbed? So if you people are oh so safe, then why do you care so much about people who aren't? Isn't it their own choice to take the risk?
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Science marches on, and it turns out that those politicians were wrong.
 
TrAiT0r said:
This might be on me for only going through the last 5 pages instead of all 55 but I don't understand the people in this thread. All the screeching about evil anti-vaxxers and how they should all be dead. Why do you people care so much?

When this entire debacle happened, remember all the politicians yelling that you're "safe" and "protected" and that you can't transmit the virus once you get jabbed? So if you people are oh so safe, then why do you care so much about people who aren't? Isn't it their own choice to take the risk? I don't get why you people are so manic about it.
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Because they are a drain on our society.
 
Prince Chrom said:
I can't speak for everyone but there are people who can't get the vaccines, and Anti-Vaxxers are putting the lives of these people at risk. And Anti-Vaxxers are also effect the lives of their children.
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Why can't those people get the vaccines? Not like it was hard to make an appointment, right? At least, not where I'm sitting in Europe or in the US, going by what friends have told me. Seemed like there were so many CDC-or-equivalent vaccination centers that it felt like there was one every 200 meters.


bryanfran36 said:
Because you see, most of the antivaxxers are also going to try to get their relatives to follow their idiotic cause.

Like parents who have denied their children even a simple anti measles vaccine because vaccination is a cause for autism or the kids don't need such useless things.

Cue preventable tragic results.

Not only that, these people are also in a Venn Diagram with problematic political positions either left or right wing that join the loudmouths in spreading stupidity and willful ignorance.
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Can't say much about this except that the covid vaccine got basically no testing and just got pushed through anyway. There could be all kinds of side effects to it. We'll only find out in the next 5-10 years.
As for the autism, all I know is that I got all the usual childhood vaccines and have been diagnosed with aspergers. Don't know if that was what caused it or if I had it anyway. My sample size is 1 and as such, not exactly much of a benchmark.


MissileTeatime said:
Science marches on, and it turns out that those politicians were wrong.
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So they lied and made claims that couldn't possibly have been real, eventually got caught lying and now "we didn't know that things changed and now agree that the 100% protection in reality only barely works" is supposed to fix it all? Politicians and pharma companies said the same and it turns out the 'conspiracy crazies' were right after all.

Daytripper said:
Because they are a drain on our society.
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What exactly is the difference in drain when compared to the vaccinated?
 
TrAiT0r said:
This might be on me for only going through the last 5 pages instead of all 55 but I don't understand the people in this thread. All the screeching about evil anti-vaxxers and how they should all be dead. Why do you people care so much?

When this entire debacle happened, remember all the politicians yelling that you're "safe" and "protected" and that you can't transmit the virus once you get jabbed? So if you people are oh so safe, then why do you care so much about people who aren't? Isn't it their own choice to take the risk? I don't get why you people are so manic about it.
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In addition to all of the above, viruses mutate. Every person who refuses to get a vaccine is a Petri dish for the virus to continue mutating, requiring those of us who are sane to keep getting vaccinated and risk getting infected by new strains anyway. The anti-vax movement is basically a cult of Nurgle who don't even have the loving papa urging them on.
TrAiT0r said:
Why can't those people get the vaccines? Not like it was hard to make an appointment, right? At least, not where I'm sitting in Europe or in the US, going by what friends have told me. Seemed like there were so many CDC-or-equivalent vaccination centers that it felt like there was one every 200 meters.
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Can't doesn't mean 'it's inconvenient to.' It means 'medically contraindicated.' For example, infants, people allergic to one or more of the ingredients, or people who have had severe reactions. This is basic bitch info you could have found in thirty seconds of Googling.
 
TrAiT0r said:
This might be on me for only going through the last 5 pages instead of all 55 but I don't understand the people in this thread. All the screeching about evil anti-vaxxers and how they should all be dead. Why do you people care so much?

When this entire debacle happened, remember all the politicians yelling that you're "safe" and "protected" and that you can't transmit the virus once you get jabbed? So if you people are oh so safe, then why do you care so much about people who aren't? Isn't it their own choice to take the risk? I don't get why you people are so manic about it.
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The idea that once you get vaccinated you cant catch the illness is outright wrong/idiotic miscommunication... often by the very people saying Not to get vaccinated.

Every worthwhile medical professional says... get vaccinated to protect yourself from the WORST ASPECTS of the illness.


Avoiding passing it off to others helps slow down transmission so that it slows down the RATE OF MUTATION.

The slower the rate of mutation, and the more people vaccinated the safer the entire population can be.


It's the difference between a wildfire not being fought, and one under control by the fire service. Both still cause destruction, but one is Massively more destructive... and human lives are the fuel.
 
TrAiT0r said:
Why can't those people get the vaccines? Not like it was hard to make an appointment, right? At least, not where I'm sitting in Europe or in the US, going by what friends have told me. Seemed like there were so many CDC-or-equivalent vaccination centers that it felt like there was one every 200 meters.
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Can't because they have a weak enough immune system that the vaccine could be fatal. As Amazon Climber said, it would have taken you less than 30 seconds to look this up yourself.
 
TrAiT0r said:
This might be on me for only going through the last 5 pages instead of all 55 but I don't understand the people in this thread. All the screeching about evil anti-vaxxers and how they should all be dead. Why do you people care so much?

When this entire debacle happened, remember all the politicians yelling that you're "safe" and "protected" and that you can't transmit the virus once you get jabbed? So if you people are oh so safe, then why do you care so much about people who aren't? Isn't it their own choice to take the risk? I don't get why you people are so manic about it.
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There are a number of reasons. Perhaps most importantly, they sabotage herd immunity, letting the virus rampage through populations that it otherwise wouldn't be able to penetrate.

Y'see, getting infected doesn't just endanger you. It endangers everyone around you.

Secondly, you're repeating a rather blatant form of the Nirvana fallacy, in that no credible source claimed... well, pretty much anything you just listed. Getting jabbed leaves you comparatively protected, but not fully immune. You can still get sick from COVID (although you're less likely to die or suffer serious after-effects). If you're driving safely, and properly using your seatbelt, why should you care that other people aren't?

Well, the answer becomes relatively obvious when that drunk driver slams into your car -- or the idiot without a seatbelt goes flying around the car in a crash and breaks your neck with his leg.

(Not a hypothetical, by the way: This is the actual reason why we have seatbelt laws. I was describing the events of a crash video I had to watch back in college.)

Thirdly, as noted, they're not just influencing their own behavior. Many of these people are discouraging or preventing other people (e.g. their kids) from getting vaccinated.

Fourthly, as also noted, antivaxxers tend to also have (and spread) other dangerous medical beliefs. Over the course of my career, I've had to -- among other things -- try to lobby against an antivaccine-inspired chain of clinics dedicated to chemically castrating children with disabilities, track down a network of antivax parents who were having pig whipworm eggs smuggled in from Thailand so they could deliberately infest their kids with porcine intestinal parasites, and deal with parents who were trying to give their kids "all-natural," "alternative" protection from childhood diseases (measles, mostly -- this was before COVID) by making them drink week-old urine.

This is an incomplete list.

On the more tragic side of things, I've also dealt with parents who refused the Vitamin K shot at birth (because any injection obviously has to be a vaccine and they don't want their kid vaccinated against their will) and then had said kid die or suffer permanent brain damage from bleeding... which they then blamed on "stealth vaccines" supposedly given to the kid against their will.

Fifthly, the antivaxxers are, in fact, assholes.

TrAiT0r said:
Why can't those people get the vaccines? Not like it was hard to make an appointment, right? At least, not where I'm sitting in Europe or in the US, going by what friends have told me. Seemed like there were so many CDC-or-equivalent vaccination centers that it felt like there was one every 200 meters.
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Which means jack shit if you're immunocompromised or undergoing chemotherapy. When we talk about people who can't get vaccinated, we're not usually talking about access to the vaccine: We're talking about people who medically can't get vaccinated.
 
TrAiT0r said:
As for the autism, all I know is that I got all the usual childhood vaccines and have been diagnosed with aspergers. Don't know if that was what caused it or if I had it anyway. My sample size is 1 and as such, not exactly much of a benchmark.
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The idea that any vaccine can cause autism was invented by two former doctors, one was trying to set up a way to sell different vaccines from the ones he said caused autism and the other who claimed that he could cure autism with medicine made from his own bone marrow. The first doctor lost his medical license for, among other things, depraved indifference to the pain he was causing to children while trying to fake up some evidence for his get rich scheme, the other lost his license for stealing way too many narcotics for personal use.

The idea was created by a conman and a crazy junkie and idiots just eat it up to explain away why they have autistic children.
 
MadGreenSon said:
The idea that any vaccine can cause autism was invented by two former doctors, one was trying to set up a way to sell different vaccines from the ones he said caused autism and the other who claimed that he could cure autism with medicine made from his own bone marrow. The first doctor lost his medical license for, among other things, depraved indifference to the pain he was causing to children while trying to fake up some evidence for his get rich scheme, the other lost his license for stealing way too many narcotics for personal use.

The idea was created by a conman and a crazy junkie and idiots just eat it up to explain away why they have autistic children.
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Wakefield wasn't the origin of the hypothesis for all that his study popularized the idea. He was literally paid to make up evidence.

The second one wasn't responsible for making it up either. The thimerosol hypothesis started with a unqualified and notably antivaccine parents publishing a notoriously sketchy article in a notoriously sketch "medical journal" dedicated to unsubstantiated speculation... which was then held out as "proof" because, well, it was an article in a medical journal, right?
 
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