With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Frank Iannetta]

What a wonderful twist! I definitely did not see that coming. I wonder if this will be enough to get Destruction to pop his head in and see what's going on?

 

[Ngamer11]

What a wonderful twist! I definitely did not see that coming. I wonder if this will be enough to get Destruction to pop his head in and see what's going on?

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Doubt it. We're more likely to see Desire or Dream instead. I really do want to see Delirium though, hopefully she'll punish Ahri'ahn for his hubris.

 

[Poimenikos]

This is the best chapter in a while. Short, to the point. We see a glimpse of the real Ahri'ahn and how tired OL is. The archmage is OK using delight. Either he is a hypocrite or he considers the Endless as different from gods. Which to be fair they are.
And paul....He is so tired of people making a mess with unnecessary moves.

 

[Darko]

Doubt it. We're more likely to see Desire or Dream instead. I really do want to see Delirium though, hopefully she'll punish Ahri'ahn for his hubris.

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She honestly might be impressed with what he's accomplished in his life and award him.

Granted, her rewards include insanity.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Granted, her rewards include insanity.

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So do her punishments.

 

[BartlettMagic]

"Then what is she?"

"Delirium."

"D-?" An expression of growing horror appears on his face. "What?"

"W-? What have you done?"

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oh i absolutely love this, Bravo

 

[Impartial Panic]

"D-?" An expression of growing horror appears on his face. "What?"

"W-? What have you done?"

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It was at this point Gamemnae/Ahri'ahn knew they fucked up.

 

[Ngamer11]

It was at this point Gamemnae/Ahri'ahn knew they fucked up.

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If they're collaborators rather than one being used by the other, then I'd like Delirium to give them a joint punishment.

 

[Neruz]

To be fair, I can see why he wouldn't ever expect a pillar of creation like Delight to have... changed.
Even if she died and was reborn/replaced, Delight would still be Delight, like Dream is still Dream and Death will always be Death.

'Taking the time to check that Delight was still around' would be like 'bothering to check that water is still wet' or that the sun still does what you think it does.
Why would it ever occur to him that it could change?

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Yep, and this kind of logic is exactly why when you're doing something major you double check everything. Even the things you are absolutely certain cannot possibly have gone wrong.

Because you are not omniscient, you don't know everything and so just because you are absolutely certain that nothing could have gone wrong does not mean you are correct.

It is not at all unreasonable to not expect the D's to have changed, and the fact that it isn't unreasonable is why you should do it anyway: It being reasonable is what makes it into a blind spot.

Ye ole "trust, but verify"; trust that you are an expert and know what you are doing. But when it's big, double check anyway, just to be sure.

 

[iamnuff]

Yep, and this kind of logic is exactly why when you're doing something major you double check everything. Even the things you are absolutely certain cannot possibly have gone wrong.

Because you are not omniscient, you don't know everything and so just because you are absolutely certain that nothing could have gone wrong does not mean you are correct.

It is not at all unreasonable to not expect the D's to have changed, and the fact that it isn't unreasonable is why you should do it anyway: It being reasonable is what makes it into a blind spot.

Ye ole "trust, but verify"; trust that you are an expert and know what you are doing. But when it's big, double check anyway, just to be sure.

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You've missed my point. No scientist on the face of the earth has double-checked that the sun is still the same as it always was before running an experiment, or that the concept of time still works the way they remember it to, or that the earth hasn't spontaneously shrunk by 1/4th.

Something that has been one way since long before you were born and is expected to remember being that way for millions of years after you die is such a constant that it's completely beneath notice. That's what it means for something to be 'forever'.
You'd spend so much time checking an infinite number of unchangeable constants that you'd die of old age before you began your work.

 

[Neruz]

You've missed my point. No scientist on the face of the earth has double-checked that the sun is still the same as it always was before running an experiment, or that the concept of time still works the way they remember it to, or that the earth hasn't spontaneously shrunk by 1/4th.

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I'd bet you that if they were doing something major with the sun, like say trying to mine it for materials, they absolutely would double check that the sun is behaving the way they expect it to be behaving.

When the consequences for failure are minor, such as performing an experiment, yeah you don't bother double checking the things you're certain about: Worst case scenario you waste some time trying to figure out what you were wrong about.


But when you're doing something like moving continents around and tapping into fundamental magical forces on a grand scale, you absolutely do double check that the things you are tapping into are what you expect them to be, even when you have no reason to believe otherwise.

Most constants are mathematical equations, and thus can be ignored because maths doesn't change. But the D's are not maths, they are people. If you are tapping into a power source, and that power source is a people, you damn well should be double checking that they are who you expect them to be.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I was rereading and found that although this character's name started out spelled this way, moving forward it was always spelled as 'Peldak'.

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[AmericanNumbers]

Effectively, using Delight would be inspired as it would reinforce itself conceptually as a utopian society with high citizen approval.
Delirium would turn it into a living nightmare that you couldn't actually grasp.

Also the dialogue around Desire feels specifically pointed at Paul who is intrinsically linked to Desire.

 

[NightmareWarden]

Effectively, using Delight would be inspired as it would reinforce itself conceptually as a utopian society with high citizen approval.
Delirium would turn it into a living nightmare that you couldn't actually grasp.

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I read a reddit thread which got into the Endless and that White School wizard-boy with a bit of speculation. Delight might be considered how the universe, through life, sees itself. Matter and minds were flourishing, there was a climbing momentum for many ages. At some point a threshold was passed- probably not a temporal one but it's easiest to explain- at which point a contraction began. Entropy began to exceed the sun total of growth. Delight became delirium due to that, and the miserable path ahead in which things which the universe is too depleted to create anew break down. Peoples and ideas are lost forever.

And theoretically the butterfly of Delight will reappear just after Death closes the door on the stone-dead universe, for a new beginning of some sort.

 

[topin89]

The chief usher of parliament in Commonwealth countries has the title Black Rod. They carry a mace in parliament in case King Charles tries to break in again.

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I begin thinking there's way more sudden epicness in official titles than I suspected.

As opposed to Nabu/Lord of Order and Klarion/Lord of Chaos?

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Nope. It's just, Law Lords was the point where I noticed how official titles sounds like superhero/supervillain monikers. I then googled if highest position in USA is something like Supreme Judge, but Chief Justice was no less comic-booky. There's no Prime Judge in any coutry afaik, I just don't really want to imagine two "non-villains" fight each other for no reason.

"I don't know what's going on. I don't know why it's going on. I don't know if you're actually Ahri'ahn, or Gamemnae, or… Someone else entirely."

I sigh again, and this time I have his full attention.

"And it doesn't-. Doesn't matter. Please. Tell me what you're doing. Tell me why. It-. It-. I probably won't care. I might help, because that's easier than just letting you carry on in a way that causes a tonne of collateral damage."

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OL's exasperation is almost palpable here. "Why can't we just talk? Do you have to make this so pointlessly convoluted?"

 

[PDV]

The Princes and Princess

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Prince and Princess

 

[DAT_NOOB]

I'd bet you that if they were doing something major with the sun, like say trying to mine it for materials, they absolutely would double check that the sun is behaving the way they expect it to be behaving.

When the consequences for failure are minor, such as performing an experiment, yeah you don't bother double checking the things you're certain about: Worst case scenario you waste some time trying to figure out what you were wrong about.


But when you're doing something like moving continents around and tapping into fundamental magical forces on a grand scale, you absolutely do double check that the things you are tapping into are what you expect them to be, even when you have no reason to believe otherwise.

Most constants are mathematical equations, and thus can be ignored because maths doesn't change. But the D's are not maths, they are people. If you are tapping into a power source, and that power source is a people, you damn well should be double checking that they are who you expect them to be.

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Yeah but you don't double check the sun is still the sun when putting solar pannels on a satellite

 

[PDV]

Didn't that happen a while ago? Maybe every mage that didn't skip centuries and is of high enough level to worry about the Endless knows Delight changed into Delirium for some reason.

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As of the prequel story released after the main series, Del was still in the process of turning into Delirium when Dream got stuck in the dome.
Without spoiling too much: Morpheus had an impending catastrophic problem, he asked Delight for help, but she couldn't because she was transforming. He eventually got it sorted without her, but it left him drastically weakened and possible to trap in the dome, as we see at the beginning of the series's main run.

So it's very recent: 1800s onward.

 

[Odysseus2099]

Most constants are mathematical equations, and thus can be ignored because maths doesn't change. But the D's are not maths, they are people. If you are tapping into a power source, and that power source is a people, you damn well should be double checking that they are who you expect them to be.

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I mean, if Desire told me they changed the laws of math 2 billion years ago to make pi an irrational number instead of the even 3 it had been before I don't think I could bring myself to completely disbelieve them. I might if they tried to imply they did it for a good reason as opposed to just fucking with people who'd built their techbase on the now defunct math, but that's just the kind of thing the Endless do.

The Endless are supposed to be more fundamental than math. Learning one changed without you noticing is like learning that 2+2 now equals 3 and a bit, and no one thought to mention it to you.

 

[Questianor]

Regardless of the supposed immutability of the Endless, you should probably triple check literally everything before applying a mind-affecting work of magic to your entire civilization. In fact you shouldn't even do it to everybody all at once, you should be running smaller experiments and observing the effects and then gradually expanding it if the results are promising.

 

[Prince Charon]

"Delirium."

"D-?" An expression of growing horror appears on his face. "What?"

"W-? What have you done?"

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Oh, dear. This sounds like it's heading into a clusterfuck of EPIC proportions.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Prince and Princess

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Mr Zoat]

7th May 2013
14:00 GMT -2

He steps away from me, his hands waving-.

I'm on the other side of the room, construct armour around my body as-. As an illusion of Atlantean territory appears in the air before him.

"I will not strike you. I have far more important concerns."

I walk cautiously closer as tens… Hundreds of glyphs appear. "How bad is it?"

"I-." He glances aside for a moment. "Oh, there's no-. I created a secondary layer, turning the closest part of the Earth's thaumosphere into a part of the material. It is there that the altered nature of the world spread and metastasised."

"Yes, I understood that much."

"But it goes deeper, and-." He swings his right arm through the illusion. "That joining turns Atlantis into a unified object which greater powers can work upon without crushing it."

"Okay?"

"That is what the great runes were designed to-." He shakes his head. "Do the correspondence effects still work if her nature has changed?"

"Don't know. I only know of one other person to ever try using the Endless as a spell component."

His eyes lock on me through the illusion. "Who? What happened?"

"He was trying to trap Death. He got Dream instead. A lot of people started dying in their sleep, any… Spell that required the Dream to be in good order failed disastrously, and when he finally got out everyone responsible who was still alive was tortured in their sleep for years before he forgot about them and allowed them to die."

"But he did it."

"… Yes. And I've got the only record of the ritual I know about and I'm not sharing it because I'm not insane."

His eyes drift back to the illusion. "I can't stop it."

"Stop what you unhelpful- !"

"I CAN'T STOP IT!"

His eyes are wide, staring at me as if he can make me fix things by intensity alone.

"The power that was supposed to be siphoned from Delight, that was supposed to transform all of Atlantis's people into demigods capable of mastering any field, commanding any power they had the whit to seize-. It can't be stopped! It wasn't designed to be something that could be turned off."

"So we need to get rid of the runic stones. Do you have their location?"

"It doesn't matter where they are! They're using one of the Endless!"

"Oh, does that work? I had some thoughts on using the Dream to travel the stars-."

"Yes." His right hand goes to his forehead. "Yes, it works. You could fly them to the edge of the universe and it wouldn't be enough."

"How about the Source Wall?"

"Not enough."

"Circuit breakers?"

"Can you install a circuit breaker in gravity?"

"Not easily. Would destroying the marker stones help?"

"They're partially incorporeal. Mere physical attacks-."

"Don't worry. Locations."

He flaps his left hand and the illusion-.

"Thank you. Orange Lantern to Justice League. Emergency. Emergency. Transmitting locations. Targets are magic rocks partially extended into the Earth's thaumosphere. Magic attacks and anti-magic weapons required. Destroy them as fast as possible."

"Batman here. I'll get the teams organized. Report new information to Mister Atom. Out."

I nod. "Orange Lantern to Hawkman One."

"Orange Lantern, good to hear from you. You take her down already?"

"No, we've got a bigger problem. To summarise, they've plugged Delirium of the Endless into a continent-wide magic network and we need to destroy the anchor points as fast as possible. Batman's organising the League and associates but I haven't updated him on your situation yet. The anchor-."

"I.. think I remember them. They're virtually indestructible."

"Ahri'ahn hasn't told me not to bother yet so it must be possible to break them somehow. I'll have a go at one myself once there's nothing more I can do here. Ahri'ahn, can you get Kaldur in here so he can take over from me?"

He tears his eyes away from his illusion, which… Appears to be running some sort of calculation.

"He's heading here now."

"Thank you. Mister Cantrell, I think that if Lord Rama can get you underwater then your mace might be able to do the job. If it can't, just get clear."

"Can do. Batman's calling Adom now. We'll get going right away."

"Thanks. I'll send updates if I manage to find anyone else to help."

"What did you do to Kaldur?"

"I asked him where Koryak was. He woke up and went looking. What did you do to him?"

"I thought I was sharing my own delight. But I see now that I was badly mistaken. A delirium…"

"How bad is it going to get?"

"I don't know."

"And how quickly?"

"I don't know. I don't know. Since I can't imagine a member of the Endless getting more powerful it should still work at the same rate… But it's accelerating. More than I was predicting, and I-. I can't work out why."

"Residual Anti-Life, the fact that you were actively trying to alter their minds anyway… Have you heard of someone called Boss Smiley?"

"No."

I make a simple construct depiction of his face-.

Which winks at him, and generates itself a thumb so that it can give him a thumbs up sigh. "I'm rooting for yeh, champ!"

I punch it, reducing it to orange mist.

"He's… Some sort of spirit of political corruption and social inertia. He hates me, and he's everywhere. He doesn't have that much direct power but-."

"His face. Is that his sigil?"

"Yes. I think so."

"Then… Then I know where we must go."

 

[Ngamer11]

Which winks at him, and generates itself a thumb so that it can give him a thumbs up sigh. "I'm rooting for yeh, champ!"

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I wasn't expecting to see him pop up like that. As if Paul didn't need any more proof that Ahri'ahn's work is dooming Atlantis.

 

[RichardWhereat]

So we have an Ahri'ahn that will be a good guy! Nice.

 

[haralo99]

"Oh, does that work? I had some thoughts on using the Dream to travel the stars-."

"Yes." His right hand goes to his forehead. "Yes, it works. You could fly them to the edge of the universe and it wouldn't be enough."

"How about the Source Wall?"

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So Paul has to take them out of the multiverse? Good thing controller what his name knows how to do that, though he kind of an ass. He might not help.

 

[Old Knife]

"His face. Is that his sigil?"

"Yes. I think so."

"Then… Then I know where we must go."

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THAT UTTER BASTARD.
I was waiting for this rematch.

 

[Bigking321]

Which winks at him, and generates itself a thumb so that it can give him a thumbs up sigh. "I'm rooting for yeh, champ!"

Click to shrink...

Wow. That's the scariest thing in a while. Just manifesting himself out of a lantern projection. That's wild.

Wasn't expecting him to show up. That's a crazy twist.

Though I doubt he's directly responsible. More like he's liking the result Ahri'ahns screwup.

...

Though Ahri'ahn recognized that symbol so he may be much more involved than I think.

 

[FuzzyZergling]

Have you heard of someone called Boss Smiler?"

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I'm 90% certain that should be "Boss Smiley?"

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

7th May 2013
14:00 GMT -2

He steps away from me, his hands waving-.

I'm on the other side of the room, construct armour around my body as-. As an illusion of Atlantean territory appears in the air before him.

Click to shrink...

What a grand time to be virtually out of mage-slayer rounds, too. That'll no doubt become critical at some point, a one-in-a-million shot to take down something vital... At any rate, I don't think this will be a fight. Not if he's reaching for his maps.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"I will not strike you. I have far more important concerns."

I walk cautiously closer as tens… Hundreds of glyphs appear. "How bad is it?"

Click to shrink...

...Shit, that's a lot of beacons. This is going to go poorly, isn't it?

"I-." He glances aside for a moment. "Oh, there's no-. I created a secondary layer, turning the closest part of the Earth's thaumosphere into a part of the material. It is there that the altered nature of the world spread and metastasised."

"Yes, I understood that much."

Click to shrink...

Say it straight, blondie: How fucked is the planet if this goes tits-up? On a scale of 'prom-night fumbling' to 'Slaanesh's personal onahole?'

"But it goes deeper, and-." He swings his right arm through the illusion. "That joining turns Atlantis into a unified object which greater powers can work upon without crushing it."

"Okay?"

Click to shrink...

Yeah, that wouldn't bite him in the ass at all, no sir. This overconfident moron... Wisdom must be his dump stat.

"That is what the great runes were designed to-." He shakes his head. "Do the correspondence effects still work if her nature has changed?"

"Don't know. I only know of one other person to ever try using the Endless as a spell component."

Click to shrink...

Let me guess, the madness is already beginning to take root?

His eyes lock on me through the illusion. "Who? What happened?"

"He was trying to trap Death. He got Dream instead. A lot of people started dying in their sleep, any… Spell that required the Dream to be in good order failed disastrously, and when he finally got out everyone responsible who was still alive was tortured in their sleep for years before he forgot about them and allowed them to die."

Click to shrink...

Most notably, the descendant of the responsible party got locked in a dream of waking for years.

"But he did it."

"… Yes. And I've got the only record of the ritual I know about and I'm not sharing it because I'm not insane."

Click to shrink...

Good, who knows what Ahri'ahn would do with it, if this wasn't already starting to go tits-up.

His eyes drift back to the illusion. "I can't stop it."

"Stop what you unhelpful- !"

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There are other people in the room who can help, 'Arry. Talk to them, you dim bulb.

"I CAN'T STOP IT!"

His eyes are wide, staring at me as if he can make me fix things by intensity alone.

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And therein lies his problem. He assumes no-one is as smart as him, and thus if he can't stop it, no-one can. And now his world-view is about to get smacked around with a sledge-hammer of competence.

"The power that was supposed to be siphoned from Delight, that was supposed to transform all of Atlantis's people into demigods capable of mastering any field, commanding any power they had the whit to seize-. It can't be stopped! It wasn't designed to be something that could be turned off."

Click to shrink...

...And no doubt only you held the keys to the process, because 'no-one else could be trusted to know what's best for the nation'?

"So we need to get rid of the runic stones. Do you have their location?"

"It doesn't matter where they are! They're using one of the Endless!"

Click to shrink...

Well, OL can try and get in touch with one or two of them. Somehow, since it's not like they left their numbers.

"Oh, does that work? I had some thoughts on using the Dream to travel the stars-."

"Yes." His right hand goes to his forehead. "Yes, it works. You could fly them to the edge of the universe and it wouldn't be enough."

Click to shrink...

Not the time, OL. Prevent rampant psychosis from breaking out first.

"How about the Source Wall?"

"Not enough."

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Because the Source is still part of the Universe. Or vice-versa.

"Circuit breakers?"

"Can you install a circuit breaker in gravity?"

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That would be a tricky one, working on something while it's running underneath you.

"Not easily. Would destroying the marker stones help?"

"They're partially incorporeal. Mere physical attacks-."

Click to shrink...

He's got options for that.

"Don't worry. Locations."

He flaps his left hand and the illusion-.

"Thank you. Orange Lantern to Justice League. Emergency. Emergency. Transmitting locations. Targets are magic rocks partially extended into the Earth's thaumosphere. Magic attacks and anti-magic weapons required. Destroy them as fast as possible."

Click to shrink...

Don't forget to warn them about possible magical clay zombies standing guard.

"Batman here. I'll get the teams organized. Report new information to Mister Atom. Out."

I nod. "Orange Lantern to Hawkman One."

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And Bats is thinking 'Goddammit, Orange Lantern, what did you do? Here we go again...'

"Orange Lantern, good to hear from you. You take her down already?"

"No, we've got a bigger problem. To summarise, they've plugged Delirium of the Endless into a continent-wide magic network and we need to destroy the anchor points as fast as possible. Batman's organising the League and associates but I haven't updated him on your situation yet. The anchor-."

Click to shrink...

...He says it so casually, talking about the energies of an anthropomorphic personification of a universal principle being plugged into a magical network like a battery...

"I.. think remember them. They're virtually indestructible."

"Ahri'ahn hasn't told me not to bother yet so it must be possible to break them somehow. I'll have a go at one myself once there's nothing more I can do here. Ahri'ahn, can you get Kaldur in here so he can take over from me?"

Click to shrink...

Ah, the joy of him having been involved in the Ancient League times.

He tears his eyes away from his illusion, which… Appears to be running some sort of calculation.

"He's heading here now."

Click to shrink...

A variation of the spell Zatanna was using? Or just another application of the one he used earlier to meet up with the Lanterns on arrival...

"Thank you. Mister Cantrell, I think that if Lord Rama can get you underwater then your mace might be able to do the job. If it can't, just get clear."

"Can do. Batman's calling Adom now. We'll get going right away."

Click to shrink...

This is going to be something big, isn't it? Perhaps this will help give the League a kick in the pants about expansion...

"Thanks. I'll send updates if I manage to find anyone else to help."

"What did you do to Kaldur?"

Click to shrink...

Ah, right. He was going off on his own sidequest...

"I asked him where Koryak was. He woke up and went looking. What did you do to him?"

"I thought I was sharing my own delight. But I see now that I was badly mistaken. A delirium…"

Click to shrink...

More like a shared delusion, a shared madness...

"How bad is it going to get?"

"I don't know."

Click to shrink...

Presume global mayhem if it starts to leak out, then.

"And how quickly?"

"I don't know. I don't know. Since I can't imagine a member of the Endless getting more powerful it should still work at the same rate… But it's accelerating. More than I was predicting, and I-. I can't work out why."

Click to shrink...

...Maybe by poking Delirium like this, you got her attention, and made her focus. And a focused Delirium is a terrific Delirium, in the oldest sense of the word. Not pleasant, basically.

"Residual Anti-Life, the fact that you were actively trying to alter their minds anyway… Have you heard of someone called Boss Smiler?"

"No."

Click to shrink...

Oh gods, he's probably watching with frustrated intent, given how big a change to the status quo this is.

I make a simple construct depiction of his face-.

Which winks at him, and generates itself a thumb so that it can give him a thumbs up sigh. "I'm rooting for yeh, champ!"

Click to shrink...

...Yeah, nope. When he can make an independent construct emote like that, you know it's dangerous to invoke him.

I punch it, reducing it to orange mist.

"He's… Some sort of spirit of political corruption and social inertia. He hates me, and he's everywhere. He doesn't have that much direct power but-."

Click to shrink...

Hell, he must be pissed off as hell about the Anti-Life and its aftermath. In comics, this would be handled by a short timeskip and voila, everything's back to normal...

"His face. Is that his sigil?"

"Yes. I think so."

"Then… Then I know where we must go."

Click to shrink...

Well, now. Go on, because this fellah is in need of a big arse-kicking...

At least Ahri'ahn isn't spending long on the 'shit, I fucked up' phase of the moment, and getting on to the 'let's fix this shit' part. Which is appropriate because this is mostly his fault. If he'd just resisted the urge to poke around in the collective psyche of Atlantis... Well, he'd have messed up somewhere, but at least the world wouldn't be in potential danger from it.