On a Pale Horse (Umamusume/Youjo Senki)

Wild Transient · 2025-11-08T01:26:51+0000

WrandmWaffles said:
Who's actually about the same height as Shirogane. Her eternal rival in shortness!

Wait really? The Terrorist of the Racetrack,the wandering hobo is Shiroganes height???

They should meet.

WrandmWaffles said:
Shirogane would theoretically be an effective trainer for certain kind of personality, but overall she's probably too intense for most umas to handle.

*Recalls how she handled the candidates for joining the 203'rd*. Okay yeah that tracks.

WrandmWaffles said:
I imagine her support card (which would be Guts) is a very powerful one in terms of the stats and skills it gives, but many of the card events cause large energy expenditures and cause mood drops in exchange for large stat increases or skill points.

Tazuna approves of all this Guts training.

WrandmWaffles said:
It might be of questionable legality to do something like that. Cygames has said that betting on races isn't a thing in the world, but I find that to be very unlikely, given that betting is kind of half the reason horse racing is still a thing in the first place. Her family isn't really the type inclined to do that kind of thing, but there are quite a few people in Fujisawa who would bet on her.

Back on SB on a ongoing Umamusume Quest I'm in some of the discussion was on that very topic. I think we agreed on that Uma race gambling would likely be akin to pachinko parlors or game arcades.

You pay for tokens, you get more tokens if the Uma you bet on wins. Then you exchange said tokens for a prize. Then you pawn it for cash at "certain" pawnshops.

D'znn-Xy'lll MetaChthonia said:
They were cowardly enough to Retgone the Queendom of Ireland so Fine Motion is now just a foreign student I doubt they ever will do that

Its less cowardice and more prudence. With the global version of Umamusume Pretty Derbys popularity Cygames prudently decided to nip a potential controversy in the bud. They really,really don't want to take the chance "certain" groups in Ireland don't use Fine Motions character for local political purposes.

For fanfic purposes no author is obliged to follow that retcon. But for Cygames they most certainly have to do so to not get dragged into trouble.

IbnAurum · 2025-11-08T06:09:43+0000

Birdlover123 said:
Though it's heavily implied now, instead outright saying it because of recent rewriting. Very weird since it's still imply she is still Irish royalty.

I just ignore the retcon, Cygames just wanted to play it safe with Global

Jubjub3000 · 2025-11-08T10:43:17+0000

I wonder if shiro will be in the race where that uma breaks her ankle? Maybe she stops to help her pass the finish line piggyback style? Turning around at the last second so the injured uma goes first.

Would be really good sportsmanship.

MHEmpire · 2025-11-08T10:46:40+0000

WrandmWaffles said:
There's also the fact that the communists tended to kill most of their umamusume population for being genetic bourgeois.

This just seems unlikely to me. I could see it massacres of Umas being something that happened as a result of initial revolutionary fervor, but couldn't see it extending beyond 'just' discrimination and persecution when it came to official doctrine. In the case of the Soviet bloc specifically, which is most relevant to Shirogane, one of Stalin's closest allies was Marshal Semyon Budyonny, a veteran cavalryman and experienced horse breeder who even ended up establishing a whole new breed of horse (the Budyonny, named after him). Horse cavalry also played a critical role for the Red Army from the Civil War through the Second World War—for instance, the 1st Cavalry Army was one of the most elite formations in the Red Army until it was disbanded after the Soviet-Polish War, future Marshal Zhukov himself being a veteran of it—with warhorse breeding being maintained as late as the 1950s.

As for actual left-leaning Umas, Sirius Symboli is deliberately set up as a foil to Symboli Rudolf, as both seek to help out their fellow Umas, but in very different ways—there's even an event where Sirius and Rudolf get into a debate over the topic of equality and equity, with Siruis opposing Rudolf's rigid, top-down management which leaves people slipping through the cracks in favor of more proactive, specialized action specifically intended to help those who can't work with Rudolf's methods (Sirius specifically brings up the financially unstable and the chronically ill, see the translated event here: https://youtu.be/avk_3M2-Ysg?si=duU1jN6Xpzr-WVKl).

I suspect Sirius's attitude may have something to do with how the real Sirius Symboli won a single G1, then was promptly sent overseas where he was heavily abused by his staff, run ragged on a grueling schedule (14 races in 22 months is kinda fucked), and performed miserably, all the while being massively overshadowed by Symboli Rudolf, who was only a year older.

As for Tanya's hypocrisies, personally I would put that down to Carlo Zen being very much a left-leaning author who deeply disagrees with her capitalist fangirling (as evidenced by his other works, especially Yakusoku no Kuni and Yakitori, as well as what little online presence he has), and not being able to entirely stop that from bleeding through.

Dr.Degenerate · 2025-11-08T11:25:30+0000

MHEmpire said:
This just seems unlikely to me. I could see it massacres of Umas being something that happened as a result of initial revolutionary fervor, but couldn't see it extending beyond 'just' discrimination and persecution when it came to official doctrine. In the case of the Soviet bloc specifically, which is most relevant to Shirogane, one of Stalin's closest allies was Marshal Semyon Budyonny, a veteran cavalryman and experienced horse breeder who even ended up establishing a whole new breed of horse (the Budyonny, named after him). Horse cavalry also played a critical role for the Red Army from the Civil War through the Second World War—for instance, the 1st Cavalry Army was one of the most elite formations in the Red Army until it was disbanded after the Soviet-Polish War, future Marshal Zhukov himself being a veteran of it—with warhorse breeding being maintained as late as the 1950s.

I think it seems perfectly in character and even likely for the USSR to massacre umas, or at least send them all to labor camps. The very existence of umas represent a living contradiction to communist ideology (or at least the Stalin era ideology), and that could not be easily tolerated by Soviet leadership. Umas have hereditary abilities, and the USSR denied heredity and tried to push Lysenkoism for a while until they were forced to quietly surrender to reality. It's not hard to imagine early communist leaders seeing umas and the physical traits they inherit as a biological aristocracy and seek to destroy them, or at least send them all to labor camps.

In Youjo Senki, this is how the Alt!USSR dealt with their mages, until the war forced them to shift their ideology out of practical need.

D'znn-Xy'lll MetaChthonia · 2025-11-08T12:09:22+0000

Personally I say that whatever the Real World anybody did is utterly irrelevant because a third visibly superhuman variety of human is viable to be born at any random time dashes any and all Ideologies regardless of what they are... Well, except the Nazi fucks. Unfortunately their stupid fucking "Ubermensch" bullshit stolen and corrupted from some Norwegian guy about natural born leaders just ends up being turned into the Uma-mensch instead. Anyway, would rather not think too hard about that especially when it leads into some darker places, Mount Rushmore Literally has Umas on it. Athena is an Uma if the Statue of Liberty is to go on (or maybe the architect's girlfriend was an Uma. Seem to recall it was supposed to be based on Athena but in the image of his girlfriend or something like that). There's probably more I can't remember. If we ignore the Meta Reasons it's a miracle it even vaguely followed as close as it has. Wouldn't be surprised if bulls were domesticated into being mounts without horses being a thing just to add onto that.

Although still expecting a Mod to come in because this is blatantly getting into Rule 8 (and Rule 5) Violating Territory. Doesn't matter if it's 20+ years old (because, again, I have been Infracted for this Topic before).

The Unicorn · 2025-11-08T12:26:23+0000

Dr.Degenerate said:
I think it seems perfectly in character and even likely for the USSR to massacre umas, or at least send them all to labor camps.

Which USSR? Stalin? Sure, but he wouldn't be massacring them for being Ume, he'd be massacring them because of his delusions about conspiracies and traitors.
USSR under more sane leadership? No, not any more than they went around slaughtering jews.

Not that I can't imagine lots of Ume running afoul of NKVD/KGB/etc, but they'd be fined/imprisoned or killed for their specific (perceived) actions, not for being Ume.

The very existence of umas represent a living contradiction to communist ideology (or at least the Stalin era ideology), and that could not be easily tolerated by Soviet leadership.

This is wrong.

Umas have hereditary abilities, and the USSR denied heredity and tried to push Lysenkoism for a while until they were forced to quietly surrender to reality.

Not sure about this(I'd be interested in any cites you have for it), but one thing to keep in mind is that the last communist political leader who actually believed in the nonsense they spouted as propaganda and for public consumption by the masses was (AFAIK there may have been one or two more) Lenin. Pretty much everyone who was even close to the top of the USSR was (at best) a self-serving politician.

Added to that, Denying hereditary didn't make them go around slaughtering redheads.

D'znn-Xy'lll MetaChthonia said:
Personally I say that whatever the Real World anybody did is utterly irrelevant

This. Very much this.
If you want a realistic depiction of how things would develop with Ume you'd need to start with a massive change from OTL around 10,000BCE, if not earlier.

Doesn't mean arguing specific cases isn't fun, but they don't actually matter for the story, because in any story the answer is "this is how it works because a wizard (or Gaddess) made it so."

Neo3932156 · 2025-11-08T12:34:18+0000

The Unicorn said:
SNIP

Regardless, this is what OP has decided in Uma Musume background history, at least for this fic.

WrandmWaffles said:
The Soviets were the main reason. Umamusume are biologically unequal with humans, making them inherently kulaks and thus enemies of the revolution. Thus, most countries that underwent a strongly ideological communist regime purged umas, though in Poland's case it was more the greater soviets doing it rather than the Polish communists, since a lot of Polish umas were involved in the Polish military.

The Unicorn · 2025-11-08T13:07:16+0000

Neo3932156 said:
Regardless, this is what OP has decided in Uma Musume background history, at least for this fic.

Sure, and as noted that works for the story just as well as any other explanation, doesn't make it a realistic explanation.

Neo3932156 · 2025-11-08T13:28:08+0000

The Unicorn said:
Sure, and as noted that works for the story just as well as any other explanation, doesn't make it a realistic explanation.

I just find it a bit odd that in a world where events just generally follow their IRL counterparts like horse races, the genocide of an entire different species for their characteristics that contradict their political ideology/message, in a time where that sort of thing is common, is where it breaks your SoD? Like, what's one more BS reason added on to a pile of them?

MHEmpire · 2025-11-08T13:31:39+0000

Perhaps more relevant is that horse racing didn't stop under the Soviet Union. Not even when Stalin was in charge. There were only two interruptions, those being a few months in 1917 thanks to the revolution, and in 1941-42 due to the German invasion (notably, this means it had already started back up again both while the civil war was still ongoing, and before the Germans had been entirely kicked out). One horse even had significant international success—Soviet Derby winner Anilin, who not only ran all over the Eastern Bloc but came west as well, dominating the now-G1 (the grading system hadn't been developed at the time) Preis von Europa three years in a row from '65-'67, taking 5th in the '65 l'Arc, and then 3rd and 2nd in the '64 and '66 Washington D.C. International (the revived modern race is a G3, but before it was first discontinued after the '94 running it was a G1). If the world of Umamusume is one where horses are reincarnated by benevolent goddesses to have a second chance to run their hearts out, then the Soviets can't partially succeed at genociding their Uma population without fundamentally changing that aspect of the setting.

Emsteak · 2025-11-08T14:02:02+0000

MHEmpire said:
*Snip*

Fellas, find you a woman who defends you like MHEmpire defends Stalin.

D'znn-Xy'lll MetaChthonia · 2025-11-08T14:15:38+0000

...here we go, the inevitable has started. Shit.

Everytime. Every single time. Here I am biting through cables trying to not directly slot my metaphorical dick into this power socket. I can feel the Mods' gazes crawling on my back. They Know me. I don't Know them but they already Know me. They Know what I want to say. They're waiting for me to say it. I won't! I! WON'T!

The Unicorn · 2025-11-08T14:16:53+0000

Neo3932156 said:
I just find it a bit odd that in a world where events just generally follow their IRL counterparts like horse races, the genocide of an entire different species for their characteristics that contradict their political ideology/message, in a time where that sort of thing is common, is where it breaks your SoD? Like, what's one more BS reason added on to a pile of them?

It doesn't break SoD but it's also very much not in character or belivable for the soviets (other than Stalin) to go around murdering people like you propose.

Emsteak said:
Fellas, find you a woman who defends you like MHEmpire defends Stalin.

I seem to have missed where they defended Stalin. Mind providing a link?

Lyrista · 2025-11-08T14:25:58+0000

What does any of this have to do with the fanfic itself?

D'znn-Xy'lll MetaChthonia · 2025-11-08T14:31:15+0000

Lyrista said:
What does any of this have to do with the fanfic itself?

Closest you get is Discussion about some minor Exposition from a recent WoG on an insignificant Detail utterly irrelevant to the present of the Story up to the point of being easily replaced with simply the roulette table of Genetics taking till Shiro to land on Uma leading to History falling in a specific ways that's leading to... Conflict. This is why this Topic is informally forbidden under Rule 8 inspite of Rule... 1? I think? The one that says there's no forbidden Topics has an asterisk that isn't physically present. This is one of those asterisk moments. And I'm fighting a battle with myself to try and stay out of it.

tacobowl8 · 2025-11-08T15:41:54+0000

D'znn-Xy'lll MetaChthonia said:
Closest you get is Discussion about some minor Exposition from a recent WoG on an insignificant Detail utterly irrelevant to the present of the Story up to the point of being easily replaced with simply the roulette table of Genetics taking till Shiro to land on Uma leading to History falling in a specific ways that's leading to... Conflict. This is why this Topic is informally forbidden under Rule 8 inspite of Rule... 1? I think? The one that says there's no forbidden Topics has an asterisk that isn't physically present. This is one of those asterisk moments. And I'm fighting a battle with myself to try and stay out of it.

You do all of this whining about things running afoul of Rule 8 and similar, as well as complain that things are being off topic, and yet I don't see a single report ever created for this thread. Come now, you have tools to use if you think things are breaking the rules.

As it stands, nothing has broken Rule 8, but we are fairly off topic, so please get back to the story everybody.

RogueInquisitor · 2025-11-08T15:55:26+0000

While Shirogane is taking second-year classes, she also has classes with her fellow first-year students. Do we expect her to provide tutoring for her fellows who may be struggling? Academics are still required at Tracen.

On a Pale Horse (Umamusume/Youjo Senki)

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