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This is from Revlid, who wrote up an excellent Isidoros charmset among many others back when the White Wolf forums were still up and running.Aesthetics seem important, but I assure you that they are much less than everything when dealing with Yozi Charms. I'll get a bit ahead of myself here:Let's say you're playing a Slayer favoring Kimbery; you are a faceless warrior wrapped from head to toe in a shell of verdigris and brass, dripping seawater and poison, one hand clutching a rune-graved sword. You've just hit Essence 6, your group is looking at Triumphant Howl of the Devil-Tiger and liking what it sees... but what are you going to do? Aesthetically speaking, you're a straightforward blend of Malfeas and Kimbery, brass and seawater and poison and all that jazz. What then? Are you supposed to abandon your old aesthetics?
Almost every Yozi (current exceptions are She Who Lives in Her Name and sort-of-the-Ebon-Dragon) has two distinct major trees of Charms, aside from their General set, which defines their Primordial nature in its entirety. We might call these the Outward Tree and the Inward Tree. The Inward Tree describes the Yozi's physical nature. The Outward Tree describes how the Yozi understands the world.
For Malfeas, the Outward Tree starts with Insignificant Embers Intuition, and describes Malfeas' understanding of the world; all things are lesser than him, fit to be crushed beneath his heel, to obey him alone, to suffer incurable blights and searing pain for defying him. The Inward Tree starts with By Pain Reforged, and describes Malfeas' physical nature; he is a self-harming prison deadened to pain, a toughened thing of brass that needs no sustenance or pleasure and ignores others with ease. Note that, despite both dealing with Green Sun Wasting, Cold Fire Desolation Brand (those I strike down deserve incurable agony) and Blight Internalization Transcendence (that which does not kill me only makes me tougher) are in different trees.
Each Charm in a Yozi Charmset makes a statement that builds on its prerequisites - but not on any of the Charms before that, allowing for a great degree of thematic drift.
By Pain Reforged says "there are no pains greater than those I inflict upon myself". Nightmare Fugue Vigilance builds on that, and says "my own dreams are pain, so I shun them". Solipsistic Rejection of Impossibilities says "the opinions of others are merely dreams, so I ignore them".
Longer Charm trees have even greater thematic evolution. It's almost impossible to draw a direct link between, say, Insignificant Embers Intuition and The Green Mile, but work from Charm to Charm and you'll follow the chain of Yozi-logic fairly easily.
So among the first questions you need to ask about your Devil-Tiger is completely unrelated to aesthetics. How do they understand existence? How do they see the world? How do they think it works? Define and explain their viewpoint, in as exaggerated and unconditional a manner as possible.
Once you've got that, it's likely to inform a lot of your other decisions about the new Primordial, in the name of thematic coherence. Kimbery's physical nature as a poisonous sea ties directly into her understanding of existence, which leads her to be emotionally erratic (a trait associated with the sea and her manifestations throughout mythology) and metaphorically toxic in her relationships. Cecelyne's physical nature as a great desert sure does lend itself well to all the biblical prayer-hearing stuff that comes from her understanding of existence, doesn't it?
This is also the kind of stuff that shows up in the Excellency, a lot more than any aesthetics will. Note how Malfeas' green fires are only mentioned so the Excellency can talk about how he rages and blights things and possesses a wrathful glory? Those are the things an Infernal can use to enhance an action, not "made out of brass" or "is a city", so they're the important bits to put in there.
So I'd ask what your brass-coated poisonous swordsman thinks of the world, because that's vastly more important than the tools he uses... and the vast majority of Charms are little more than very fancy tools.
Furthermore, what if your character takes after your patrons closely enough that you can't think of a separate set of themes? You're not probably not exactly the same as your patrons, but close enough that their Charms can represent you, especially if you design a few Heretical charms that blend the two (and maybe another Yozi on occasion). You could maybe manage an Excellency of your own, but nothing you can come up with feels sufficiently different to warrant a whole new Charm set.Your answer is pretty much the one I'd go for. I've had at least one character who I never intended to take Devil-Tiger. Why would I? Everything she'd ever want to do was covered pretty well by the Malfeas Excellency. If she wanted immortality, she could just take the second purchase of (Yozi) Eternal Essence. There's nothing wrong with that at all. If I'd really pushed for it, I might have eked out some unique space for her Charmset, but why should she or I make the effort when we're never going to stop spending xp on existing Yozi Charms anyway?
Devil-Tiger's not the One True Build, after all. Sure, you get access to a new favoured Charmset and Caste power, but Infernals already have access to six Charmsets even before considering homebrew, and they've all got pretty good Caste powers to begin with. Those who don't bother to take that route are 27xp better off, even before you start getting into the later stuff like Urge-alteration.
Nekraa said:Puppet Maneuvering Impulse
The Mirage of Beauty is a coward, therefore she prefers to make others do her work for her. The Majestic Playwright finds eternal fascination in plays, therefore she manipulates others to play their part.
When an Infernal manages to maneuver someone into doing what the Infernal was supposed to do, the Infernal's player may roll the character's Conviction. Each success on the roll reduces the Infernal's Limit by one (to a minimum of zero). The Infernal can't use Puppet Maneuvering Impulse to make someone do something they would already do.
Impeccable Justification Stance
Cost: 7m, 1wp; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Compulsion, Emotion, Illusion
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Superimposition of Fragmented Memory
This Charm can affect (Essence + Appearance) characters that can see the Infernal can see.
If the Infernal has done anything that anyone affected by this Charm considers bad during this scene, they will rationalize away it as something just. They think they remember it incorrectly, there was extenuating circumstances, that they doesn't know the whole picture or that "They deserved it".
Manifold Slash Delusion
Cost: -1DV per 1m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK, Illusion
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: First Mirage of Beauty Excellency
The Mirage of Beauty do rarely battle. But when she does, she wields powerful illusions and glamours to confuse and stump her enemies.
When used together with a physical attack, this Charm creates a DV penalty to the target equal to the number of motes the Infernal spent, as the number of attacks seems to multiply.
The illusion is perfectly immune to mundane scrutiny and may not be resisted with Willpower expenditure. Appropriate non-Excellency Charms may pierce the ruse using standard roll-off rules, but the Infernal's player adds (Manipulation) bonus successes to his roll.
The DV penalty is capped at (Manipulation).
A repurchase at Essence 2+ changes the DV penalty cap to (Manipulation + Charisma).
Virtue-Severing Strike
Cost: 1wp; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK, Crippling, Obvious
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Manifold Slash Delusion
The blade of the Mirage of Beauty pass through flesh without wounding, merely leaving ripples as if passing through water. The soul on the other hand…
This Charm enhances a physical attack. Instead of doing physical damage, the attack reduces a Virtue chosen by the Infernal by one dot as a Crippling effect. Mortals can't heal this crippling wound to the spirit, but an Exalt heals one Virtue dot per month. Attacks made with this Charm can affect the immaterial.
Reweaving the Thread
Cost: 2m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Heart-Illuminating Methodology
The severed thread of a destroyed intimacy will flail about wildly moments before dissolving into nothing, this is when the Infernal strikes. This Charm can be activated when an Intimacy the Infernal can see is destroyed. This Charm "saves" the Intimacy, but gives it a new subject chosen by the Infernal. The "new" Intimacy has the same nature as the one it's from.
Reward from the Dream-Self
Cost: - (1wp); Mins: Essence 3; Type: Permanent
Keywords: Desecration, Shaping
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Mutable Dream-Self
Sometimes, the Mirage of Beauty finds beauty in one of her Dream-self's mutation template.
If the Infernal spends one Willpower when a non-permanent replica within (Essence + Willpower) yards touches a character, it will dissolve that replica into motes of blue light that is absorbed by that character. This is a desecration effect grants that character the mutations the replica had gained from Mutable Dream-Self. This shaping effect can be resisted by paying two Willpower.
This Charm also grants the mutation Creature of Darkness as normal for desecration effects.
Essence Laden Voice
Cost: 3m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Social
Duration: One scene
Prerequisite Charms: World-Stilling Speech
The voice of the Majestic Playwright vibrates with life and passion, making it harder to deny her for those who listen.
Any social attack done by the Infernal counts as unnatural mental influence, and interacting with the Infernal automatically counts as one scene towards developing a positive Intimacy towards the Infernal.
At Essence 3+ the cost for this Charm is reduced by one mote.
At Essence 5+ the cost is reduced to 0 motes and the duration changed to indefinite.
Nervaqus987 said:Okay, some criticism on a few things in here.
Nekraa said:Puppet Maneuvering Impulse
The Mirage of Beauty is a coward, therefore she prefers to make others do her work for her. The Majestic Playwright finds eternal fascination in plays, therefore she manipulates others to play their part.
When an Infernal manages to maneuver someone into doing what the Infernal was supposed to do, the Infernal's player may roll the character's Conviction. Each success on the roll reduces the Infernal's Limit by one (to a minimum of zero). The Infernal can't use Puppet Maneuvering Impulse to make someone do something they would already do.
The Act of Villainy is entirely too light on the Infernal. This is a manipulator Devil Tiger and the Act is....manipulating people.
Compare Malfeas's Act, which involves leaving behind a calling card that calls attention to the fact that he was in the area wrecking stuff, or Szoreny's, which gets the attention of your rival, who likely is a peer to you and is probably willing to get in your way out of spite, if not because your schemes are an actual threat to him. Or look at SWLIHN, who's Act is telling someone the full scope and details of your plans, or Cecelyne, who leaves their enemies unsupervised and unguarded in a deathtrap, certain that that will deal with them.
My suggestion?
Keeping in theme with the Devil Tiger being a manipulator and the other Acts of Villainy that all put the character at risk(and act like a supervillain, can't forget that), have the Act be to reveal how the Infernal has been manipulating someone from the very beginning to further their schemes.
Fiendish Betrayal Revelation
The Mirage of Beauty plans and deceives constantly, but few are aware of the wondrous web of lies that she weaves. Sometimes, she takes pity to a favored subject, and enlightens them of how she has used them for her own malign designs.
When an Infernal reveals to someone how she has exploited their trust in her for her own purposes, the Infernal's player may roll the character's Compassion. Each success on the roll reduces the Infernal's Limit by one (to a minimum of zero).
Nervaqus987 said:Nekraa said:Impeccable Justification Stance
Cost: 7m, 1wp; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Compulsion, Emotion, Illusion
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Superimposition of Fragmented Memory
This Charm can affect (Essence + Appearance) characters that can see the Infernal can see.
If the Infernal has done anything that anyone affected by this Charm considers bad during this scene, they will rationalize away it as something just. They think they remember it incorrectly, there was extenuating circumstances, that they doesn't know the whole picture or that "They deserved it".
This Charm can resisted by having an MDV higher than the Infernal's (Appearance + Essence) or by spending two Willpower.
Needs to include some method of shacking this off or ignoring it, be that spending Willpower or having a high enough MDV. As written, if you don't have a Social Defense, you're fucked.
Nervaqus987 said:Nekraa said:Manifold Slash Delusion
Cost: -1DV per 1m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK, Illusion
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: First Mirage of Beauty Excellency
The Mirage of Beauty do rarely battle. But when she does, she wields powerful illusions and glamours to confuse and stump her enemies.
When used together with a physical attack, this Charm creates a DV penalty to the target equal to the number of motes the Infernal spent, as the number of attacks seems to multiply.
The illusion is perfectly immune to mundane scrutiny and may not be resisted with Willpower expenditure. Appropriate non-Excellency Charms may pierce the ruse using standard roll-off rules, but the Infernal's player adds (Manipulation) bonus successes to his roll.
The DV penalty is capped at (Manipulation).
A repurchase at Essence 2+ changes the DV penalty cap to (Manipulation + Charisma).
I'd suggest raising the cost to 2 motes per DV penalty, bringing it equal to the Excellency cost to add to the DV.
Also, the penalty Cap for the repurchase being two Attributes is a bit funky. Not sure if that's good or bad through.
Nervaqus987 said:Nekraa said:Virtue-Severing Strike
Cost: 1wp; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK, Crippling, Obvious
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Manifold Slash Delusion
The blade of the Mirage of Beauty pass through flesh without wounding, merely leaving ripples as if passing through water. The soul on the other hand…
This Charm enhances a physical attack. Instead of doing physical damage, the attack reduces a Virtue chosen by the Infernal by one dot as a Crippling effect. Excess Virtue Channels from a previous level are lost. Mortals can't heal this crippling wound to the spirit, but an Exalt heals one Virtue dot per month. Attacks made with this Charm can affect the immaterial.
You should probably mention what happens to any excess Virtue Channels from the Virtue's previous level. Most Charms like this mention that any in excess of the new rating are lost, so you may want to include that.
Nervaqus987 said:Nekraa said:Reweaving the Thread
Cost: 2m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Emotion
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Heart-Illuminating Methodology
The severed thread of a destroyed intimacy will flail about wildly moments before dissolving into nothing, this is when the Infernal strikes. This Charm can be activated when an Intimacy the Infernal can see is destroyed. This Charm "saves" the Intimacy, but gives it a new subject chosen by the Infernal. The "new" Intimacy has the same nature as the one it's from.
This one needs some elaboration.
When you say an Intimacy is "destroyed", do you mean when it is eroded completely(in which case, you should specify if the new Intimacy comes in at full strength or not), or do you mean if the subject of the Intimacy is destroyed or killed, e.g. a character's wife whom they have an Intimacy of Wife(Love) is killed in front of them?
Either way, you should probably include some kind of method of resisting, at least for Essence Wielders, be it MDVs or Willpower.
Also, needs the Emotion Keyword.
The severed thread of a destroyed intimacy will flail about wildly moments before dissolving into nothing, this is when the Infernal strikes. This Charm can be activated when an Intimacy the Infernal can see is eroded completely. This Charm "saves" the Intimacy, but gives it a new subject chosen by the Infernal. The "new" Intimacy has the same nature as the one it's from and is at full strength. This Charm can be resisted by Essence Wielders by spending one Willpower.
Nervaqus987 said:Nekraa said:Reward from the Dream-Self
Cost: - (1wp); Mins: Essence 3; Type: Permanent
Keywords: Desecration, Shaping
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Mutable Dream-Self
Sometimes, the Mirage of Beauty finds beauty in one of her Dream-self's mutation template.
If the Infernal spends one Willpower when a non-permanent replica within (Essence + Willpower) yards touches a character, it will dissolve that replica into motes of blue light that is absorbed by that character. This is a desecration effect grants that character the mutations the replica had gained from Mutable Dream-Self. This shaping effect can be resisted by paying two Willpower.
This Charm also grants the mutation Creature of Darkness as normal for desecration effects.
The Infernal can use this Charm on herself.
Should probably specify if the Infernal can use this on themselves or not.
Nervaqus987 said:Nekraa said:Essence Laden Voice
Cost: 3m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Social
Duration: One scene
Prerequisite Charms: World-Stilling Speech
The voice of the Majestic Playwright vibrates with life and passion, making it harder to deny her for those who listen.
Any social attack done by the Infernal counts as unnatural mental influence, and interacting with the Infernal automatically counts as one scene towards developing a positive Intimacy towards the Infernal.
At Essence 3+ the cost for this Charm is reduced by one mote.
At Essence 5+ the cost is reduced to 0 motes and the duration changed to indefinite.
Okay, yeah no.
The Initial Charm, I'd already consider really strong, what with it making all of the Infernal's Social attacks UMI, but all interactions with her count as a scene of building a positive Intimacy along with being scene length.
The auto upgrades though? Those push it a bit too far, particularly the E5 one, which essentially means that the Infernal's every single Social attack forever is now UMI and all interactions count as a scene spent developing a Positive Intimacy, also forever.
To compare, Malfeas's Charm that turns social attacks into UMI for free is Crowned With Fury, which only works with Commands(and is Obvious when doing so) and Cecelyne's Demonic Primacy of Law, which only works on Demons of a lower Essence, with the side effect of making all Social attacks from Demons of Higher Essence count as UMI.
My advice? Cut the upgrades and look at Crowned With Fury and Demonic Primacy of Law for inspiration. You could make a Charm to make certain forms of Social Attacks UMI thematic for the Devil Tiger for free, as long as you accept a draw back to do so.
Malfeas makes his Orders UMI, but also Obvious(like most of what he does). Cecelyne makes any Social Attack at Demons UMI, but accepts that the Social Attacks of Demons of higher Essence becomes UMI.
Thanks! I had fun making her. And yeah, some Adorjan influence.Nervaqus987 said:Those aside, this is a fun Devil Tiger. In particular, I love the Clad in Dream and Fantasy Charm line and the imagery of it.
I'm also seeing some hefty Adorjan influence, particularly in Crazed Obsession Ferocity and Compassion in Cruelty.
Captivating Visage
Cost: 5m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Emotion
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Immaculate Form of Perfection
The Mirage of Beauty holds a façade of great splendor and innocence. Few can raise their sword and bow at her without hesitation.
This Charm can be activated when it is time to roll Join Battle. Each character that oppose the Infernal (IE will fight against her) and that can see her rolls (Wits + Integrity) against the Infernal's (Appearance + Essence). If the Infernal wins the characters subtract the number of successes the Infernal won with from their Join Battle roll.
Nekraa said:Hm... How does this look?
Fiendish Betrayal Revelation
The Mirage of Beauty plans and deceives constantly, but few are aware of the wondrous web of lies that she weaves. Sometimes, she takes pity to a favored subject, and enlightens them of how she has used them for her own malign designs.
When an Infernal reveals to someone how she has exploited their trust in her for her own purposes, the Infernal's player may roll the character's Compassion. Each success on the roll reduces the Infernal's Limit by one (to a minimum of zero).
Mm... I see what you mean. Though, it is possible to shake off the effect (admittedly with some work) and I'd like it to be better than an Excellency, it is more limited after all. But then again, it can always be used, unlike Excellencies that have their "theme". Maybe put 2m/-1DV for first buy and 1m/-1DV for the repurchase?
What do you think?
True, though I have to note that Demonic Primacy of Law doesn't make the social attacks of higher level demons into UMI. The Infernal does suffer from the penalty though (unless it's a part of the errata that I've missed).
Not sure what I kind of action or target that it should work against though. Those with an Intimacy towards her? Those she has an Intimacy for? Probably not the later one... Social attacks made with Manipulation?
Well, it's something to think about.
theweepingman said:Hmm. Still not sure with the Act of Villainy.
I mean, the thing with Act of Villainy is it forces to do something. It drives you to, well, stupid and cliche-ly villainy act in order to reduce your Limit. Malfeas' one demand that you kill someone and leave your calling card, making it ore likely for someone to track you. Cecelyne ask you to leave your enemy be instead of finishing him, and thus making it open for him to come back and, well, kill you. SWLiHN wants you to reveal your entire plan to your enemy. And so on, and so forth.
Point is, Act of Villainy forces you to do (generally) stupid things to happen. You have to do something, not just.. sitting there. So, rather than revealing she manipulates someone from the beginning.. why not actually manipulate someone?
Perhaps something like Exquisite Bride Obsession. You need to make someone trust you, and then for each season you act contrary to their benefit, roll, say, Conviction. When you reveal you've been manipulating them all along, roll Compassion instead. Or something in that vein.
Nervaqus987 said:Eh.
It's not really just sitting there. I mean think of it like this. If you're revealing to someone that you've been manipulating them, then you would have to have actually, you know, gone out and manipulated them. Gotten close to them, gotten them to trust you, etc. You've probably put some decent effort into it too.
Then with the Act, you blow that. You tell them that you've been pulling their strings. Now they don't trust you, they may want to kill you. If you want to keep using them, you've probably got to apply considerably more guile and/or UMI to get them to do what you want.
Short term satisfaction for long term trouble, the essence of an Act of Villainy.
The one you suggested could be a decent alternative though. Like you suggested, for every season you act against their interests you get to roll Conviction(giving you a steady source of Limit reduction), and then when you're done with them, you ruin them in some way and reveal how you've been using them from the start and either roll Compassion or possibly just straight up lose (Compassion) points of Limit.
Yeah, I know. Honestly, I mostly did it to avoid craft (as I only wanted GMW for the children) for craft-bloat is bad.Hmm.....
Uh, no offense intended but Revlid pretty much already did this Charm and did it better.
Great Mother's Wame.
Yeah, I know. Honestly, I mostly did it to avoid craft (as I only wanted GMW for the children) for craft-bloat is bad.
But the focus is not quite the same. GMW makes you a Genesis crafter. GMA makes you a mother.
I don't have my books on me, but I think there's a general rule in the Core about UMI, unless otherwise specified, being resistable for 1wp. Not that it was intended as the counter here, but one of those little things that can trip you up, even with canon charms.Needs to include some method of shacking this off or ignoring it, be that spending Willpower or having a high enough MDV. As written, if you don't have a Social Defense, you're fucked.
I don't have my books on me, but I think there's a general rule in the Core about UMI, unless otherwise specified, being resistable for 1wp. Not that it was intended as the counter here, but one of those little things that can trip you up, even with canon charms.
SoE said:Threshold Successes on Social Attacks Social attacks cost one additional point of Willpower to resist
for every three full successes above the target's MDV. Charms and other effects which list specific Willpower expenditures
necessary to resist them (such as Heart-Compelling Method, which costs two Willpower to resist) replace the default one
Willpower expenditure with these values before the addition of threshold successes.
For example, if a Solar used Heart-Compelling Method and rolled seven more successes than the target's MDV, that target
would need to spend four Willpower to resist the Charm (two for Heart-Compelling Method, and another two for the threshold
successes). Threshold successes cannot force a character to spend more than five Willpower to resist a single social attack.
Great Mother's Wame also makes you a mother as well as allowing you to be a Genesis Crafter.