Exalted Second Edition Discussion

[Valette-Serafina]

Because we didn't have one, and an argument cannot continue in the prior thread.

 

[Valette-Serafina]

As someone who has played as a Midnight, I can assure you that no, no you can't. For among other reasons then because the locations you've mentioned don't actually exist, and by the nature of the underworld pretty much can't.

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And y'know what? You had a shitty storyteller. That is very very clear.
If you're just going to look at what locations are in the book, and sigh that the world seems a little small, the problem is that Exalted's setting was not filled out completly. There is more in the setting than the books give you.

...Also, claiming that 'murderghosts and zombies' as a reason for Abyssals being good is more then reaching.

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That's not my argument. That was never my argument.

Except that, well, 'horrible shithole and playground of the deathlords/neverborn' how it was written and shown. You can make up new things as a DM or as a player, but that doesn't make those things canon, it makes those things things people made up in a desire to make the underworld less of a shithole. Because it is a shithole.

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And see above.

Canonwise, those lunar ruled palaces? Don't exist unless I missed something big. The whole of the underworld is hostile territory for the living, and nothing that lives wants to be in it long term anyway.

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Lunars can learn how to respire Essence in the underworld.
And a elder Lunar could hide a city from anyone who wanted to find it.

Sounds like a bloody brilliant adventure hook to me. Or one hell of a backstory. "Student of a Lunar, raised and educated in the underworld". Take Mentor 3-5, some backing...
Yeah, that'd be neat. If I'm ever in a game where it'd fit, I'll float that concept. And if my potential ST shoots it down with "There's no such Lunar", I'll know to walk out.

Nothing new is ever made there. Nothing new can be made there. It's population, the 'people' within it, can only degrade, not grow. It can only gain new people by the decreasement of the living world, and both the deathlords and the undead guildsmen have spent ages on things that insure it'll stay a shithole and that it is a shithole.

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Just like how Creation is locked in an unending spiral of destructive conflict, constantly loosing the knowledge of the past, and no one can fix it? Oh my, if only there were some Exalted to confront the issues that the setting faces!

Che. No, you don't get anything on a silver platter. Of course there'll be conflict if you try to build anything there.
Just like Solars who build glorious shiny kingdoms get a Wyld Hunt dropped on their heads.

Yes, because 'all your canon super magic powers are crap, and you need to rewrite your entire charm tree to get something sane out of it' is such a ringing endorsement of playing an abyssal.

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You clearly aren't looking. Abyssals have full combat suites, total mastery of necromancy, second circle sorcery, Celestial martial Arts and the option of learning Sidereal martial arts with a teacher, some of the most powerful Excellencies in the game, and an excuse to reskin almost any Solar charm. They craft just as well as Solars. They rule the dead just as well as Solars rule the living. They master knowledge, kill sickness, destroy wounds, run and jump and hide and notice just as well as Solars.

And Solars are kinda good at those things.

Because universally being able to use essence doesn't provide them with enough anti-suckyness to make them any better then mortals,

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Yeah, it really does. Like, seriously. Unless you're ruling a cityful of gods or Dragonblooded, that's about as good as it gets.

and unlike mortals you have to jump through all sorts of hoops to get a good army of the undead out...

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Stats are higher on average, they have Charms, they will not get sick, they will not bleed to death, they do not tire, they do not sleep...

Oh, and if you think the only use of a nation is an army, you're very wrong.

even before the whole PR disaster type repercussions start, you have to deal with necromancers mind controlling your troops (and the deathlords are the biggest necromancers around both in collected lore and available minion necromancers),

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Fixable. War Charms, Integrity Charms, Necromancy of your own, Thaumaturgy...

Of course, a mortal army would have to worry about the same thing, every time they went up against a Solar. Or about being killed by an unending tide of vermin the night before the battle.

See, it turns out that the Deathlords are kinda a problem for everybody who wants to fight them, and that everybody needs to go to special lengths to muster an Army that can oppose them. Maybe you knew that?

other exalts flocking in from miles to fight the evil horde of undead,

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Oh come on. Don't be that...
Right. Here's the thing.

No matter what you do, people will oppose it. Some of them will be Exalted, and if you don't even try to get some of those Exalts on your side, they will break your things.
On the other hand, if you do try, they might be on your side. This is not D&D. Even Solars can ally with the undead, and every single Exalt is an individual.

the need to use giant piles of murder to make shadowlands if you want them out of the underworld...

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Making a few assumptions here.

First, why leave? Ruling a nation in the underworld does not require an invasion of Creation.
Second, Why not try and make a better way? That's a classic Exalted goal. It could even be a motivation.

Well, 'being on par with mortals but happening to be far more annoying to use 99% of the time' is not a ringing endorsement either.

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Either you deliberately misread that, or my communication needs work.

Let me be 100% clear. Mortals < Ghosts. Ghosts can use Essence, Mortals cannot.
Essence that can be used for such things as efficient Thaumaturgy, Artifact attunement, and even bloody Necromancy. Ghosts can reach Essence scores above 3. Ghosts can even gain Abilities and Attributes above 5.

As for ease of use, you seem to think they'd be in Creation. That's ridiculous.

Not so. Terrestrials are better then solars at actually working together, given sworn brotherhoods.

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And yet they achieve less when they do so.

Pit a group of high essence Terrestrials against the same number of Solars, and the Solars will probably win.
Same goes for Lunars. And Sidereals, and Infernals, and Alchemicals who've got their charms on.

And yes, Same for Abyssals.

And unlike the Abyssal they don't have limit breaks of 'everyone around me randomly dies/is underworlded/slapped by the neverborn', can actually build things without murdering people/using murdertech, can actually use methods of motivation that isn't 'horror and terror', aren't stuck in the shithole of the underworld, have a lot of allies, have all the resources of ruling the world behind them...

I'd much prefer to be a Terrestrial then a Abyssal.

Because Abyssals are, well, abyssal at everything that actually matters besides 'horrible murder, often of people who don't deserve it'.

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Well. I'll be sure to remember not to play in a game you're in.