Oramus Charmset Project (DEAD)

[Alexander]

"In this world, there is no truth. The truth is made later on and overwrites what comes before it. Real truth doesn't exist anywhere." –Beatrice, Umineko

"For the first time, I felt honoured at being allowed to compete in this game of truth and error, and witches as a human. And ironically, that taught me that the truth is not necessarily only one when I believed that only one truth existed. By just broadening my field of vision a little, I can see a truth that is completely different. And no matter which one of the truths, if you can only see one of them, they will not be the right answer. Ah, in my life until now, I wonder how many truths have I turned away from because I was blinded by some trivial truth? This is, the truth, of the world." –Furudo Erika, Umineko no Naku Koro ni

"How can this be real?" I whispered. "I mean you... you... where you come from. Your world. It is so beyond everything I've ever known. And you would... you would take me to the Pumpkin Ball?"―Serra Elinsen, Awoken


ORAMUS, THE DRAGON BEYOND THE WORLD

Oramaic Urge (The Urge to Mystify)

====​

As from here. I welcome the volunteers:

The Great Me I have charisma
Crawling_Chaos Grant us forbidden wisdom, oh Transcendental One
Jarudazuigu Burn with the power of ten thousand fluffy suns
frozenchicken Never underestimate what an ice bird can do

We have discussed before about what this is about, so after necessary greetings between those who don't already know the others....

....

...Let's start. We shall begin with the words of the Immortal One, Revlid-sama:

Question: How should I go about developing a Devil-Tiger?

Well, first off is your Excellency. Describe the nature, personality and behaviour of your character, in the most archetypical, exaggerated manner possible. Try to hit somewhere between 200-300 words. Include an action it can always enhance, and behaviour that absolutely forbids use of the Excellency. Make sure it can be trivially applied in most situations, while banning certain specific approaches.

After that, you've got the rest of your General Charms. Sorcerous Enlightenment can be a little tricky, but if you just follow the cues of existing Yozi initiations you'll be fine - one kind of spell that gets bonuses or becomes cheaper, another kind of spell that suffers penalties or becomes more expensive. A similar assurance applies to Ascendancy Mantle, which just needs to make the Exalt's life harder or include some kind of obligation. Mythos Exultant is the hardest, because it's a stunt modifier, and the most obvious changes - more motes, more Willpower, even more dice (not recommended) - have already been applied. Ultimately, it's a thing that gives you resources, so work out what resource your Devil-Tiger needs and have the Mythos Exultant give it that - Kimbery can afford to spend health levels, Malfeas can afford to blow through motes, She Who Lives in Her Name can burn Willpower like joss paper, Theion has a bottomless supply of Conviction channels, and so on. If you go for a specific Virtue channel, recall that motes or Willpower are (in that order) far more vital than Virtue channels, so you don't want to duplicate Phoenix Renewal Tactic, because it's crap - ideally you'll get a Virtue channel in addition to your rewards, with some sort of mild restriction to balance it. Theion (and my own Isidoros) Mythos Exultant is a good example.

After - or more likely, alongside - that, you've got all your other Charms. The advice here is simple - two trees, one that describes how your Devil-Tiger understands the world, the other describing how he manifests within the world. The root Charms for these generally manifest as some sort of mental/sensory enhancer and some sort of physical enhancer, respectively. In the former category, Malfeas has "I know who is weaker than me", Cecelyne starts with "I intuit the nature of spirit-slaves", She Who Lives in Her Name has "I can tell truth from lie", the Ebon Dragon says "I understand darkness and lies", Adorjan has "I survive through murder", Kimbery gets "I know the proper nature of relationships", Theion has "I know the worth of my servants". I gave Isidoros "I understand that my whims are paramount". In the latter category, Malfeas is a thing of self-inflicted pain, Cecelyne is a being of desolation and desert, Adorjan is fast as the wind, the Ebon Dragon has no real fixed shape, Kimbery is a creature of water, and Theion is divine rulership embodied. She Who Lives in Her Name is made manifest only through her philosophy, and so gets just a single tree. I made Isidoros into a force of weighty destructive force.

Your Charms progress from there, with the vast majority sitting at tier-2 and tier-3. This generally manifests as a handful leading off each root Charm, with the more core tier-2 Charms spawning a bunch of upgrades and variants - only specialist effects go any deeper.

But first of all you want to do your Excellency, because the guiding principle of all Charms is "how does knowing this Charm make my character act"? If the answer, viewed as coldly and logically as possible, isn't "like the Excellency" then it's probably not a good Charm. This applies most obviously to Charms that forcibly alter the character's behaviour, by changing their definition of a Virtue (and take care to consider - does the Yozi have an alien view of a Virtue? Or just a low rating?) or applying some kind of compulsion or penalty, like Witness to Darkness (you are worse at telling the truth) or Murder is Meat (victims don't count as people), or Mother Before Daughter (I can never betray my loved ones or ancestors). Such Charms tend to be chokepoint Charms - placed in such a way that you have to buy them to get to other, more universally-applied or juicier bits of magic (though they should still be useful on their own), to force you to pick up more of the Yozi's nature in claiming their power.

However, it also applies to Charms that come with no such direct obligation - Mother Sea Mastery does not penalize you for staying out of the water, it just means that you've spent 8-10xp on being better at acting in the water. Therefore, you're more likely to spend time in the water, where the advantage is yours. This is something of a chicken-egg thing - why would you get Mother Sea Mastery if you didn't want to spend time in the water? However, it's also a temptation of sorts. If you have Mother Sea Mastery, you're wasting a purchase if you don't spend time in the water, and getting in the water is always an option, one open to you more than anyone else. It even applies to Charms that you activate - Green Sun Nimbus Flare is a really good offensive tool. It also causes horrendous sickness, leaves corpses twisted in charred agony, condemns slain foes to millennia of torment, and terrifies those who see it inflicted. If you use it, you are acting like Malfeas' Excellency tells you to. If you upgrade it, you are increasing your investment in acting like Malfeas tells you to. And why wouldn't you upgrade it? All the upgrades are so good.

Once you've got all that down, it's just the balance of individual Charms that should concern you. Avoid duplicating existing capabilities where possible. Compare to published Solar, Abyssal, and Infernal capabilities, but don't be afraid to make changes on gut instinct, and always try to switch things up in an interesting and characterful fashion. Ask yourself if you'd ever take such a Charm (since you're making this set specifically for your character, this shouldn't be a problem). Make sure to include a distinctive aesthetic. Edit, re-read, rewrite, compare, edit again. Best of luck.

......................

On the note given above - you know what's really good about Infernal Charmsets? I mean, unique to the way they work, not the fact that the published material was mechanically better written and more suited to the system than its peers.

It's that they produce, more than any other setup in the game, more than any setup I've seen beyond "have someone else RP the possessing entity", a powerset with its own motives. A Solar's powers will never fight him. A Sidereal's powers will never strain under her grip. A Lunar's powers won't do things he didn't want them to do. A Terrestrial's powers won't have their own agenda. An Infernal who picks up Malfeas Charms has to deal with the fact that his powers want to hurt people.

Not in the obvious, fight-for-dominance-in-a-metaphorical-mindscape sort of way, but in the sense that these powers were designed to be perfectly suited to a specific personality, and in some instances themselves work to shape and model that personality. If you are that personality, then the powers work perfectly, and at this point the Charmset has 'won'. Jackie Estacado has given in to the urgings of the Darkness. Ling's been eaten up by Greed. Siegfried's been taken over by Soul Edge. Johnny Blaze has surrendered to the insane drive of the Spirit of Vengeance. Negi Springfield's been consumed by Magia Erebea. Harry Dresden's reached an accord with Lasciel. Cletus Kassidy has found his soulmate in the Carnage symbiote. Ichigo Kurosaki has been defeated by his inner Hollow. Jaime Reyes has let the kill-instincts of the Blue Beetle run wild. You're still in charge, but you're doing exactly what the Charmset 'wants' you to do.

If you're not that personality, you have to wrestle the round peg into the square hole over and over again. You have to strain and adapt and compromise to do what you want, albeit the way your powers want to do it.

Infernal powers - unlike any other in Exalted - really have a life of their own. Out of a selection of character types whose only real common point is "I am awesome", the Infernal is the only one whose powers can be an antagonist within their own story. That's their most distinguishing point. If you have access to Kimbery's Charmset, you might as well have her as a siren-devil sitting on your shoulder, telling you to act like her. You don't have any such thing, of course (outside of stunted Essence-training-meditation), but you really might as well, because you, as a player and as a character, know that there is power to be had in acting like her. In doing what she wants. And the more of her Charms you pick up, the stronger that "voice" becomes, because there is more and more power to be found in becoming her. And it's entirely up to you, no Virtue rolls or Willpower expenditure or unnnatural mental influence involved, just pure player/character decisions. How marvelously clever.

That realization is what it would take for Metagaos to open his Charmset, I think, barring PC-level plot intervention. The understanding that, in doing so, he gets to infect the Exalted, make himself a part of them, in a way they can never ever defend against.

Click to shrink...

This is the Guide to structure Primordial Charmsets, the trend since 2014.

Even more, the man offered words of advice directly to the Great Me:

Very basic advice for Charms, to start off with:
1) Check similar effects to see how they were done. Don't be afraid to steal wording. Don't be afraid to completely depart from precedent if you feel it makes sense.
2) Be aware of how your effects combine with all the others available to your character, and account for it. Try not to devalue other effects, unless you're deliberately doing so because they're crap. Conversely, try not to create effects that can be overpowered when used in combination with another.
3) Obey basic cardinal rules. Don't fuck with perfects, don't allow mote-positivity, and so on.
4) Have a clear idea of what you want a Charm to do before you write it. A Charm that ignites a sword is one thing – but what does this do? Increase damage? Incite fear? Cauterize wounds? Set victims on fire? Choose, or your Charms will be muddled.
5) Rewrite your stuff over and over. Simplify wordings and iron out vagueness.

Next, for Yozis:
1) Have a clear image of how you want your Yozi to behave. Use characters from other media as templates, if necessary, but have a solid understanding of what behaviour and beliefs your Yozi promotes, and which they scorn.

1a) Use this to write the Excellency, which should be two paragraphs between 200-300 words total, the first focusing on the Yozi as a character, the second on the Excellency as a tool. It should have actions it can always enhance and actions it can never enhance – a personality is as much about restrictions as possibilities. Avoid too much reference to things you can't do without Charms – rather than telling us that Malfeas burns things with emerald fire, it's more useful to tell us that he obliterates his enemies with absolute cruelty, because that's something a person can do and emulate (as opposed to a purchase of Green Sun Nimbus Flare).

2) Make sure you have a strong aesthetic in mind. This is one of the things that separates Yozi Charms from many others – a clear image of what each Charm does and how it looks in action. Contrast to the Solar model of letting players customise their effects.

3) Split your Yozi in two. This isn't an absolute restriction, but it's one that most sets follow and works pretty well for this sort of set-up. One tree is rooted in "how the Yozi relates to the world", and the other is rooted in "how the world relates to the Yozi". Malfeas has one tree that starts with the power to tell if someone's weaker than him, which leads into Charms to punish people with eternal hellfire, order them around, brand them as his slaves, and so on. He has another tree that starts with the power to ignore pain by injuring yourself, which leads into Charms to warp his body in horrific ways, forgo sleep or real food, and armour himself in scars. Ditto with Kimbery, Cecelyne, and Theion.

4) Charms have a logic which follows on from the previous Charm. Each Charm is a statement about the Yozi, so each of the two trees starts with a statement about the Yozi – "what I am" and "what you are". A second-tier Charm - that is to say, one which only requires one of these Charms - is a statement that follows logically from a first-tier Charm. A Charm which requires that second-tier Charm follows logically on from that, and so on. Provided it suits the Excellency and logically proceeds from the statement made by its prerequisite, you're golden. This means that the statements Charms make can "drift" as you go on – particularly significant statements often become "bottlenecks" in the trees, which means that you need to buy them to access a great many subsequent Charms. If you notice a bottleneck, it's often worth it to include some characterful drawback or quirk that a) encourages the right behaviour or b) ensure that anyone who learns it is prepared to make that sacrifice for the Yozi. Nightmare Fugue Vigilance is an example – powerful Charms like By Agony Empowered are locked behind it, but buying it means you'll never sleep without nightmares.

5) Only gate very powerful or characterful Charms behind Excellencies. Most Infernals aren't going to have more than one Excellency - maybe two, if they're really wasteful. Adding an Excellency prerequisite to a Charm means you only want people who have seriously dedicated themselves to that Yozi acquiring the relevant Charm. This might be flexible Overdrive tech, or a tree that totally changes how someone plays the game – Cecelyne's wishing tree is a good example, the Ebon Dragon's Face in the Darkness isn't.

6) The nature of Yozi Charm sets, described above, means you'll often end up with "blobs" ("branches" sounds too distinct) of Charms that roughly streak into the same theme, with distinct blobs budding off from them at particular points. To put it in other terms, you'll write a Charm is a statement, and then lots of Charms that are merely expansions or elaborations on that statement (part of the reason why Yozi Charm sets have so many upgrades). It's only the one distinct-but-proceeding Charm-statement that actually branches off into its own blob. It's best to work out roughly what these blobs will be – and how they proceed into each other – ahead of time.

Click to shrink...

So, after reading that I think you would agree we need, first and foremost, come up with a "clear image of how you want your Yozi to behave". In this case, Oramus.

I know some of you have already an idea of Oramus, but just in case I am going to list which characters from other media may work as templates:

Master Therion (Demonbane)
Haermaus More (Elder Scrolls)
Q (Star Trek)
Discord (MLP)
Yakumo Yukari (Touhou Project)
Junko Enoshima (Dangan Ronpa)
Beatrice (Umineko no Naku Koro ni)

 

[frozenchicken]

Hi everyone! I don't think I know the other two participants, so nice to meet you!

Alright, so I think it's a good idea to start wide and drag the net in close after, so we can sort the good from the bad.
First the excellency:
-We need to just list out varying conceptions of who Oramus is or could be seen as, highlighting various aspects we consider important. To start with, the canonical information on Oramus:

Themes of Oramus:
the Wyld, dreams, delusion, madness, creation,
children, birth, novelty, nonconformity, uniqueness, invention,
art, style, flair, signatures, spontaneity, flexibility, wonder,
mystery, chaos, chance, luck, improbability, impossibility, incomprehensibility,
anomalies, boundaries, transgression, transcendence,
dragons, wings, the number seven, sardonyx, pearls,
opalescent quicksilver

Click to shrink...

There's some good intellectual meat here, and most interpretations of Oramus are derived from what's wriiten here. The obvious paradigms here include: Oramus as the Primordial closest to Chaos and all its' associations, Oramus as a creative artist, Oramus as a philosophical mystery that is beyond anyone's comprehension(as opposed to being simply mysterious), Oramus as the boundary between (real and not real) or (understood and not understood). Another paradigm that is often largely unexplored is that of the contrast between him and The Ebon Dragon. These paradigms aren't all separate things, I'm just treating them in a reductionist manner for simpler analysis.
It is commonly accepted[1] that the source of Oramus' creativity is his exposure to 'The Without' which lies on the other side of the border which is himself, and which is also a source of madness, impossibility and so on. There is room for interpretation as to whether he is simply the Gateway to the Without, or whether he IS in some way the Without.

-[1]: Various canonical texts mention other Yozi listening to the Without for inspiration, like Elloge poking her head through Oramus' wings for inspiration, or the Pyrian Flame being inspired to create Space Monster Scream from listening to it.

Demesne Aspects of Oramus
Irregularly shaped rooms, random colors, untended
gardens, follies, nonsensical architectural elements, floor plans
that rearrange themselves, art galleries, studios, paintings,
sculptures, curios, many-winged dragon motifs.

Click to shrink...

This is what Oramus' power makes things look like, which is only loosely connected to what we're doing here, but it's still worth keeping in mind.

Of Oramus (The Dragon Beyond the World)
With chaos pressed asunder, many titans awakened within
the flames of Cytherea. But one came from Beyond and said: "I
was waiting for you to awaken. I thought that it should never
happen."
This was Oramus, the Dragon Beyond the World, who stirred
the Wyld with his wings. In the time before time he was Not,
for there was no world, but in the moment of Ignition he came
to Be. Yet he was before, for he was of the things which could
not be, and counted amongst those things was him, the Dragon
Beyond the World Which Had Yet to Be.
The other titans looked upon him and thought that he
looked always to be the thing which he was not.

Click to shrink...

Just a short piece of canon narrative. Mainly just gives a look at the strange existence of Oramus, though the final line 'The other titans looked upon him and thought that he
looked always to be the thing which he was not.' is an interesting one.

Edit: Found one last source on Oramus:

Oramus, the Dragon Beyond the World
Sometimes, when he sleeps most deeply, the Dragon Beyond
the World appears as nothing more than an egg-shaped mass as
large as a mountain, a colossus wrapped tight in his own wings,
encircled by vast plains of rubble. But when his dreams are fitful,
the Wyld-light shines around and through him. Then he
takes forms other than his own: an opalesque temple with seven
minarets; a cyclopean lantern burning with seven varicolored flames;
a seven-sailed galleon of blue wood and starmetal,
chained to an anchor carved from a single pearl; a titanic snowwhite
bird with seven broken wings. In these forms, he may be
encircled by a forest of liquid trees, or an inverted mountain
range, or an ocean of serpents, or illimitable empty sky, or any
number of other mad landscapes. But in every form he remains
bound. Such is the prowess of the gods and the Exalted.
Travel in the vicinity of Oramus is fraught with hazard.
Boundaries lose cohesion and meaning; one can leave a forest
while still being surrounded by its trees, or find oneself within
the Dragon's aberrant innards without ever having entered his
body. Parts of one's own physiognomy may be temporarily subject
to sudden (albeit harmless) eversion. Demons of the more
cunning parasitic phyla are known to haunt his environs in
hopes of infesting victims by happenstance rather than through
effort.
The Dragon Beyond the World is an artist, but he has little
scope to exercise his aesthetic sensibilities while he lies bound
and sleeping. Nonetheless, his urge for self-expression finds a
way. Singular creatures sometimes rise from the stones around
him or squeeze out from between his wings like infants from
the womb, each of them like nothing that has ever been born
before or since. At other times, he appears in the dreams of
demons or mortals as a psychic muse, overwhelming their souls
with impossible visions that can only be exorcised through imperfect
mimesis in painting, sculpture, dance or song. Such accursed
artists are deemed mad by their peers, and this is too
often true, for what lesser mind can encompass the hurricane
of inspiration that is Oramus?

Click to shrink...

Mainly just describes Oramus from an outside PoV.




I've got to get up early in the morning, so I'll let you guys chew on this for now. Once we've got a big list of traits and themes, we can narrow them down to what precisely we want to convey about him and begin working on the excellency. Whilst we're at it, it probably wouldn't hurt to keep an eye out for hints as to how Oramus treats the world and how the world treats Oramus.

 

[SerbobIV]

One thing that stands out is that he is a mad artist, which would probably be an important part of his Excelency.
Edit: his Excellency would probably be invalid for escaping bindings.

His intrinsic tie to seven may show as a modification of the inevitability technique? Rather than lowering the target number it makes sevens better somehow?

His "how he sees the world" tree would probably be related to madness.

 

[Peanuckle]

I'd like to throw in my two cents: A usable Oramus charmset already exists, as many of us know. So when constructing this one, I'd recommend going in a drastically different route, otherwise it'll be so similar that you should just make these expansion charms to that set.

The existing set is a fairly benign interpretation of Oramus: It provides a basis for the multiple shapes of Oramus, dips a bit into casually causing madness, offers one or two charms on disregarding physical space and spends quite a bit on being a Wyld-manipulating artist.

I'd recommend going the opposite direction. Oramus, mystical and strange as he is, was beaten down by the Exalted. He is as bitter and twisted as the rest of the Yozis and that should show in his charmset. He ought to harm the world in a casual, pervasive way that his brothers don't, since he is a creature of the unreal and reality can't comprehend him. His art should be psychotic and dangerous, not a thing for eccentric collectors in ivory towers, but for raving lunatics to copy in a blood-scrawled ideogram on their cell wall before committing suicide. A visit by an Oramus-empowered Infernal ought to trigger a wide-range quarantine as peasants are black-bagged and interrogated behind a one-way mirror, by messenger, for the agent's protection against contamination.

The madness Oramus brings shouldn't be burdened genius or an otherwise benign handicap. Rather, it should trap and hurt the people upon whom it has been inflicted, such as in Red Dragon or The Shining. As Oramus has been imprisoned within himself, so shall he imprison others. The only people who benefit from Oramus' blessings are those working directly towards his goals, which should be unreasonable, indecipherable and nonsensical to all but him.

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

This is cool. I'll chip in, I suppose, though unsure of how much I can really offer.

I rather like Peanuckle 's take on it. Kinda like Chaos (WH40k) in a sense.

How does Oramus see the World? He really doesn't, rather, He sees beyond it, and by knowing what the World isn't, He knows the World. So seeing the immaterial(Spirit sight and such); things that aren't there, like scrying; intuition and prediction charms; and the imposition of unreal things upon the real and vice versa, illusions and shaping?

How does the World see Oramus? As a Mad being, one that is impossibly real. Seeing Him is to glimpse the what is impossible. So inflicting derangement and mutations; self-shaping/mutations; and shaping defense?

Behind the Excellency could be the crafting (particularly Wyld/gossamer(?) crafting and genesis) type, and luck charms (for instance, roll a d10, that number is also or replaces a normal number as a success). Maybe a 'acheive' this result to actually get this totally opposite result. Like 'it's impossible to create a campfire with a pot of water' but the water catches on regular fire anyways with the water as fuel instead of wood.

Spoiler: Something like in this video?

Since Oramus is both real and unreal, possible and impossible, maybe His imperfection is that parts of himself/panoply/things he has inflicted or created cannot be stopped by his PDs? ie. The Solar convinces the illusory person to attack the Infernal and the illusion can strike the Infernal, or an shaped stone can be hurled at the Infernal and strike true, or someone bearing a temporary mutation given by the Infernal.

There's my current thoughts, make of them what you will.

 

[Green Sun Over Paradise]

Alright, what should his two root charms be? We need to define his manifestation charms and his perception charms. Now there are two ways to go about this; the Kimbery and Cecelyne and Metagaos way, in that the Infernal gains a permeant effect that allows them to better survive in a new environment. Of course then there's the Malfeas and Isidoros way, which is to say that the changes themselves in different ways, like I pain is nothing or my ego was a literal weight.

Thankfully the footwork for his perception charm and Excellency have already been done by Earthscorpion:

FIRST ORAMUS EXCELLENCY

Cost: 1m per dice; Mins: Essence 1; Type: Reflexive (Step 1 for attacker, Step 2 for defender)
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: Instant
Prerequisites: None

Oramus is ancient beyond belief, a horror who brought madness and terror to the hordes of chaos by his mere presence. Even chained, he cannot be forgotten and twists the world without effort. He is a harbinger of change who is himself unchanged by the tumultuous events he incites. The cryptic Sevenfold Dragon does not flaunt his status, butlurks in the background, cold and uncaring to the petty affairs of his lessers. From within his prison he seeks out knowledge and hoards secrets in a futile attempt to alleviate his despair. He has seen everything and often his ennui overwhelms him. At such times, he sings otherworldly melodies that echo throughout the Demon City and break down andrupture the order of things. Oramus is contrary and knows alternatives to any course of action - thus he warps the plots of others to accomplish his hidden aims.

This Charm enhances actions to transgress against boundaries, bring new things into existence, or explore hidden knowledge. The Dragon Beyond the World may always enhance actions to bring horror and despair to the creatures of the Wyld, or counter and unmake their works. This excellency cannot be used to calmly and rationally explain the character's motives or aims to another - Oramus is beyond full comprehension and the best others can manage is half-truths and metaphors.

SENSE BEYOND SENSIBILITY
Cost: -; Mins: Essence 1; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisites: None

The mind of Oramus follows no logic that beings confused by mere paradox can follow. Upon learning this Charm, the character gains the following:

- The character ignores all external penalties caused by insufficient or inappropriate evidence when taking Read Motivation actions. Oramus' un-logic allows grand leaps of causation and correlation with exquisite grace. Note that this does not allow rolls to be made when a Read Motivation action could not be taken.

- The mad are like open books for the Dragon Beyond the World to mould. All social attacks against characters with derangements reduce the MDV of their target by the derangement's mutation point rating. All derangements are made Obvious to the Infernal with a successful Awareness roll against a target.

- The warlock's opened mind and its leaps of logic are hard for limited beings to follow. The Infernal suffers an external penalty of (Essence) to all efforts to explain her motives or reasons for her actions. This same penalty applies to Read Motivation actions taken against the warlock. If the roll would have succeeded but for this external penalty, the other party is merely left with the assurance that the Infernal has reasons for what they do, though they are beyond their ken.

PATHS BEYOND WITNESSING
Cost: 2m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious
Duration: One action
Prerequisites: Sense Beyond Sensibility

None have seen the secret routes through which the Dragon Beyond the World squirmed in the Time Before. This Charm works as the Terrifying Argent Witch Charm Secret Path Step, save that the repurchased Charm costs (10 - Essence)m and any character who does not know Sense Beyond Sensibility suffers the willpower loss, not just outsiders.

WALK OUTSIDE WHAT IS
Cost: 16m, 1wp, 1ahl; Mins: Essence 3; Type: Simple
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious, Sorcerous, Blasphemy
Duration: Seven long ticks
Prerequisites: Paths Beyond Witnessing

The Exalted had to chain Oramus in his own broken wings to keep him bound within the Demon City. The Green Sun Princes have not yet been chained in this manner. Casting away the constraints of normalcy, the Infernal progressively folds herself within her own boundaries. Onlookers must pass a Valor check to watch this display without vomiting. At the end of the seven long tick activation period, the Loom screams as the warlock passes into the Beyond. She becomes an invalid target for all effects.

Outside the intersection of the Shinma who define Creation, the Infernal must resist her own indulgences within the freedom of the Beyond before she can find a route back to mundanity. Once every seven days, the Infernal must roll her Temperance as an extended roll. Once she has accumulated successes equal to her Permanent Essence, she may reappear anywhere in existence. She may not appear in locations warded by beings with a permanent Essence higher than her own, and her geographic precision is approximately equal to a small town in size. Her reappearance is a Blasphemy effect equal to her Essence, flares her anima to totemic, and causes cascading Omen Weather and other mockery-simulacra within Fate-equivalents.

The sights of the Beyond are outside the capabilities of mortal minds to comprehend. The Infernal suffers an irresistible Illusion which removes their memories of what they saw, leaving only nostalgia and regrets in their place.

FORBIDDEN LORE SUSURRUS
Cost: 9m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Illusion
Duration: Instant
Prerequisites: Sense Beyond Sensibility

Within the demon realm the whispers of Oramus fill the blasted plain upon which he rests. To listen to them courts madness - but their secrets are beyond price. The Infernal uses this charm immediately after interacting with a target. The character rolls (Manipulation + Lore) at difficulty 1 with an external penalty equal to the target's Temperance. On a success, the Charm forces the player of the other character to declare the form of information that the character most desires to know - for example, 'who killed my husband?' or 'where is the Scarlet Empress?'. If the Infernal later provides that information (which must be correct to the best of the Infernal's present knowledge), the whispers worm into the target's head. As an Illusion effect, the target gains gain a derangement with a rating no higher than the Infernal's degrees of success on the roll. As a second Illusion, they gain an Intimacy of "Obsessive Fascination" towards the Infernal. The illusions may be suppressed for a cost of one willpower per scene each. They last until the character has spent 10wp on resisting this effect, or until the target finds the information to be false.

HORROR BEYOND WHIMSY
Cost: 6m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Simple
Keywords: Emotion
Duration: Indefinite
Prerequisites: Sense Beyond Sensibility

Oramus transcends the creatures of the Wyld utterly. Their self-important narratives became meaningless when he permitted the Mother of Creation to pass into existence. And every last one of that knows it, deep in their Virtues.

Blah blah blah basically similar to Unquestionable Yozi Authority, but not quite so absolute that works by terrifying the shit out of Raksha so they can't act against you and just sit in the corner and cry. Probably they can roll their Valour and add the successes to their Permanent Essence for the purposes of this Charm, which means that high Valour Raksha can still be a problem for PCs.

Click to shrink...

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

Well, is that what we want for an Excellency?

It might be easier to decide what his Urge (and how it expresses), his Act of Villainy, and Torment are, and then work into his Excellency, and then use the themes we worked into the Excellency to deciding how the expression and perception trees start. Like if we did go with the Urge to Create, we'd have to pair it with 'new or unusual' and 'unusual and unexpected application.' Like maybe an e2 expression could be create an Artifact 4 Spork of Raeg multi-use weapon. And it has to totally be regular spork sized. To be used by another Infernal to gut an e4 god or something. Or to take over 'x' society and rebuild it totally different from what it was and any other society the Infernal knows about. His Act of Villainy is to make maddening art that reveals a hidden secret that also names the Infernal as the one who revealed the secret. Sorta like the Malfean AoV but artsy, about secrets, and driving people mad (with revenge too). And the torment forces the Infernal to be mundane, to not be flamboyant, to have no secrets, to be susceptible to how others view her, to be without that genius spark, to be borrrrreeeedddd.

"This Charm enhances actions to transgress against boundaries, drive others mad, bring new things into existence, explore hidden knowledge, or hide knowledge from others. The Dragon Beyond the World may always enhance actions to bring horror and despair to the creatures of the Wyld, or counter and unmake their works. This excellency cannot be used to calmly and rationally explain the character's motives or aims to another - Oramus is beyond full comprehension and the best others can manage is half-truths and metaphors."

There's a change I would definitely suggest from ES's. It would help more combat/assassin type play styles. Mmmm, and even in social/mental areas. Would help with lying or misdirecting NPCs/other players from things the Infernal wishes to hide. Could help even in building things that aren't new, like traps, if you had a generous ST. Otherwise, I do like that Excellency.

Start the expression blob as defining self and hiding the definition of self and expand into defining the world/hiding the definition of the world? So a charm that boosts the difficulty of reading the infernal, and increases MDVs? Then branch out into social type charms(could also add a stealth/disguise/presence charm tree by allowing the Infernal to define themselves in certain ways, or how the world defines them, like Hostile Streets Outsider and Easily Overlooked Presence) with appropriate bonuses against wyld mutants and such, the inflicting mutations, and shaping/shaping defense. So sorta split the tree again. Have a low hanging Shintai?

I like starting the perception blob with something like Paths Beyond Witnessing, would be a fairly good start, and would be a 'get your feet wet' into seeing into the beyond, as you see it for a brief moment before taking the step. And/or an pierce illusion effect, maybe first purchase is notice illusions/disguises, second higher essence purchase sees behind the illusion/disguise? Or a self delusion charm. But definitely a 'see the immaterial' charm should be pretty low hanging.

 

[Lykaia]

Now there are two ways to go about this; the Kimbery and Cecelyne and Metagaos way, in that the Infernal gains a permeant effect that allows them to better survive in a new environment.

Click to shrink...

I think I like this way best. Scales of the Dragon to rebuke even the infinite possibilities of the Wyld for Orasmus is impossibility manifest and perhaps something like Impossibilities Made Real for for expressing different impossible facets of himself via Shaping.

 

[Green Sun Over Paradise]

The existing set

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I'm just going to go out and say that I think this Charm set isn't all that great, it seems to think that Oramus is simply a bigger and better Raksha, heck it even gives him artifical graces. So I say we ditch it wholesale, perhaps just recycling a few names.

I think I like this way best. Scales of the Dragon to rebuke even the infinite possibilities of the Wyld for Orasmus is impossibility manifest and perhaps something like Impossibilities Made Real for for expressing different impossible facets of himself via Shaping.

Click to shrink...

First things first; he's better than the Wyld, he does not play by its rules, so no shaping combat shit in his charmset, instead he throws out the Raksha's source book and hits them with his own. So a permeant charm that grants passive resistance to random effects of Wyld Chaos and Raksha Shaping effects (Raksha don't matter, not to a Titan.) and (essence) Dice for all rolls for survival within the Wyld.

Basically he shits over the Wyld and its inhabitants as a basic Essence 2 effect that only grows with more charms; from this his shaping defense and crafting charms come into power.

 

[Lykaia]

First things first; he's better than the Wyld, he does not play by its rules, so no shaping combat shit in his charmset, instead he throws out the Raksha's source book and hits them with his own. So a permeant charm that grants passive resistance to random effects of Wyld Chaos and Raksha Shaping effects (Raksha don't matter, not to a Titan.) and (essence) Dice for all rolls for survival within the Wyld.

Basically he shits over the Wyld and its inhabitants as a basic Essence 2 effect that only grows with more charms; from this his shaping defense and crafting charms come into power.

Click to shrink...

Except Shaping fits him perfectly? I mean look at Wyld-Shaping Technique:

Cost: 20m, 1wp; Mins: Lore 5, Essence 3; Type: Simple (Dramatic Action)
Keywords: Combo-OK, Mandate, Obvious, Shaping
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Any two Lore Excellencies, Chaos-Repelling Pattern
Prerequisite for: Wyld Cauldron Technology, Order-Affirming Blow

This Charm allows the Chosen to tame and shape the Wyld, bringing it under their control and Creation's purview. They can create virtually anything with this Charm, including people; however, anything created with this Charm is more ephemeral than those native to Creation, and may fade if they do not interact with the rest of Creation's reality.

Click to shrink...

Things like this where he imposes one of his own impossibilities on Creation or the Wyld is well within his themes. I'll note that the other Yozi make use of Shaping like with Radiant Fury Dissolution, Loom-Snarling Deception, Sand-Slick Trip and many more.

 

[Green Sun Over Paradise]

Except Shaping fits him perfectly? I mean look at Wyld-Shaping Technique:

Click to shrink...

I mean he won't use that those damn awful Shaping Combat Rules in Graceful Wicked Masques which requires you to keep track of five different health tracks, of course he'll have shaping effects. Most Yozi do after all, even if I believe that the tag is over used.

Also: I think this charm needs some work, its powerful, but I don't know if I should include another effect; perhaps it should just grant the bonus die, and the Shaping defense should come after as an extra charm or a repurchase.

Beyond Petty Dreams
Cost: —
Mins: Essence 2
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: None
Oramus is the Dragon Beyond the World, he dwelt in the raw impossibilities of the Beyond. Compared to an existing before existence, what dangers to does the Infinite Chaos and its mad children hold for Seven-Winged Beast. he Infernal and her held possessions are immune to all effects originating from the Wyld, be it the random fluctuations of chaos or the Fae seductress attempting to cloud his mind all fail automatically. Also, a being greater than the Wyld could ever hope to be, the Prince add her (essence) to all rolls to forage for safe food, navigate or resist the depredations of the Wyld.

 

[Lykaia]

I mean he won't use that those damn awful Shaping Combat Rules in Graceful Wicked Masques which requires you to keep track of five different health tracks, of course he'll have shaping effects. Most Yozi do after all, even if I believe that the tag is over used.

Click to shrink...

I never said he would or that he should?

 

[Green Sun Over Paradise]

I never said he would or that he should?

Click to shrink...

I've lost what you're on about; I was talking about how he interacted with the Wlyd, utter domination, and I mentioned not including Shaping combat fromGraceful Wicked Masques. But I don't get your point.

 

[frozenchicken]

Alright, I'm seeing a lot of motion to push ahead with the charm creation rather than work on nailing down the core basics of who Oramus actually is, so I'm going to assume that it's as good a time as any to push forward some firmer interpretations.

The pre-existing charmset proposes a fairly mishmash interpretation of Oramus that tries to include as many details as possible with a mild bias towards his more benign/useful aspects(though I see that the base version of it that Peanuckle linked really did have more of a focus on the Raksha-esque elements). EarthScorpion's proposed charmset has a much firmer visualisation of Oramus, though it is rather deeply set into the interpretation of him as a Lovecraftian cosmic horror, with all the implications thereof (including inadvertently driving others around you mad). We don't need to avoid these concepts, but there is a reason we started off by examining things from the ground floor. We want something cohesive and that produces a charmset we want to work with.

So anyway, I've listed themes and an initial set of paradigms, but those aren't actually descriptions, anymore than saying 'Adorjan is a wind that kills people' accurately states the entirety of her being. Outwardly, Oramus has the appearance of an often-changing being with certain constancies- mainly always having seven (wings, masts, flames, etc) and being bound on a pervasive level. Those aren't just quirks to be ignored; Malfeas is a great example of how physically being twisted and left permanently in pain has altered many aspects of himself and his charms. Oramus isn't in pain like Malfeas, but the canon descriptions go on about how it stifles his attempts to express his creativity, and I think that's where we can find our government-mandated dose of 'Yozis are grumpy balls of crazy' from. The 7 wings and what they represent are another topic, one that I'll delve into more properly in a bit.

So, here is a fuller list of ways to look at Oramus. We are not restricted to picking just one of these, but we do need to decide which ones we like and ones we do not. Some of these I've split into sub-categories so we can actually make clear decisions about what aspects will work with our goals, rather than just being really vague and going 'Oramus is this tied-up thing who changes shape and is/makes people crazy'.

WHAT is Oramus?
-Oramus as the Primordial with aspects of the Fey/Chaos
-Oramus as the guy who stands at/is the gate between the insane Without, which is the Chaos beyond Creation.
-Oramus as the guy who stands at/is the gate between the insane Without, which is something entirely different to Chaos (options for this include "the 'place' that is definitionally opposite to Existence[1]​", "the true reality of Oramus" or "something meta".)


[1]​This is implied strongly by the canon story that talks about Oramus 'existing' before Cytherea awoke everyone, because he contained everything that wasn't, and since he didn't exist at that point he was able to contain himself inside himself.

How should Oramus' artistic aspect be viewed?
-Oramus as a vaguely malicious/memetic, throughly alien being, that wants to spread it's worldview even though it is thoroughly intolerable to the human mind. (This is basically expressed in ES' description of him. I'm not particularly a fan of this aspect.)
-Oramus as a creative artist, representative of pure imagination and childlike wonder, such that people cannot ever fully grasp his nature. (Uncommonly upbeat for a Yozi, but Oramus already has ways he can express his 'Yozi-crazy' that just make this more tragic, so it can actually work quite well.)
-Oramus as an unsolvable mystery behind the door that is himself, and trying to peer beyond this doorway grants as much in the way of madness as it does artistic boons.
-Oramus is like a guy whose job is to farm flowers and who feels inspired to paint flowers as a hobby, as well as offering advice to other people who want to paint flowers. Except the flowers are a conceptual reality that forms a maddeningly incomprehensible array of infinite possibilities.

Mystery
-Oramus as an incomprehensible being who loves to conceal for the sake of it.
-Oramus as a deliberately incomprehensible being who kindly conceals the Without so that we are not forced to view the horror and wonder of the other side.
-Oramus as an incomprehensible being who IS the Without, and does not bother to conceal, for his strange nature is its' own barrier.



There's a lot of subtleties here, but they'll lead to a lot of difference down the track, and if there are this many people wanting to contribute then we NEED to settle on who and what we view Oramus as, so that things don't diverge of in every direction and we end up with the very same 'every idea in every direction' type of charmset we had to start with.

 

[Peanuckle]

Beyond Petty Dreams
Cost: —
Mins: Essence 2
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: None
Oramus is the Dragon Beyond the World, he dwelt in the raw impossibilities of the Beyond. Compared to an existing before existence, what dangers to does the Infinite Chaos and its mad children hold for Seven-Winged Beast. he Infernal and her held possessions are immune to all effects originating from the Wyld, be it the random fluctuations of chaos or the Fae seductress attempting to cloud his mind all fail automatically. Also, a being greater than the Wyld could ever hope to be, the Prince add her (essence) to all rolls to forage for safe food, navigate or resist the depredations of the Wyld.

Click to shrink...

Typos aside, I like it. However, I'd suggest adding a commitment cost or an upgrade purchase to defend perfectly against all shaping originating from Raksha, because an always-on perfect against actual characters (even if they're just raksha) is pretty potent for E2. Theion has a similar charm that makes him immune to shaping from the Wyld or subordinate characters, which costs 3m. Oramus should probably be better (probably the best) at anti-Wyld though. A free always-on against environmental stuff from the Wyld itself, then maybe a commitment cost of (Raksha's essence - Infernal's essence) to make you entirely immune to that Raksha, kind of like Loom-Snarling Deception? Then it becomes a power-game where hideously powerful things like Ishvara are still a threat unless the Infernal puts effort into it, yet as the Infernal gains strength the terrors of the Wyld become lesser.

It also encourages Infernals to be cautious about making their homes in Pure Chaos.

WHAT is Oramus?

Click to shrink...

I'd go with the third option. The Beyond isn't chaos, it's everything that doesn't exist. Luna trapped Laashe there and called it "Oramus' forge." In there, Oramus decided what would and what would not be permitted into reality. The Beyond is full of things like... things I can't really imagine, which is sort of the point. There's no way to even begin comprehending what goes on in there, and that's Oramus' entire world. Your third suggestion could also work, but I don't like the idea of him being a generous patron. Contact with Oramus, even tangentially, ought to be hilariously dangerous.

How should Oramus' artistic aspect be viewed?

Click to shrink...

I like ES' option and I feel it's most in-line with the broken, bitter nature of the Yozis.

Mystery

Click to shrink...

Definitely the third option. Oramus isn't a clever trickster who can be revealed and driven off by a cunning hero, he's more like a calculus problem being looked at by a second grader. What are all these strange symbols and squiggly lines? Where's the plus and minus?

 

[Green Sun Over Paradise]

Typos aside, I like it. However, I'd suggest adding a commitment cost or an upgrade purchase to defend perfectly against all shaping originating from Raksha, because an always-on perfect against actual characters (even if they're just raksha) is pretty potent for E2. Theion has a similar charm that makes him immune to shaping from the Wyld or subordinate characters, which costs 3m. Oramus should probably be better (probably the best) at anti-Wyld though. A free always-on against environmental stuff from the Wyld itself, then maybe a commitment cost of (Raksha's essence - Infernal's essence) to make you entirely immune to that Raksha, kind of like Loom-Snarling Deception? Then it becomes a power-game where hideously powerful things like Ishvara are still a threat unless the Infernal puts effort into it, yet as the Infernal gains strength the terrors of the Wyld become lesser.

It also encourages Infernals to be cautious about making their homes in Pure Chaos.

Click to shrink...

Agreed, perhaps it could just offer an environmental defense aginst the Wyld,so a wave of change coming inward from pure chaos won't effect you, but a Raksha can still try shape you into lava, but you can pay like 2m as an instant effect to perfect it or maybe full shaping defense should be its own charm with its own quirks.

#

 

[Alexander]

Mystery
-Oramus as an incomprehensible being who loves to conceal for the sake of it.
-Oramus as a deliberately incomprehensible being who kindly conceals the Without so that we are not forced to view the horror and wonder of the other side.
-Oramus as an incomprehensible being who IS the Without, and does not bother to conceal, for his strange nature is its' own barrier.

Click to shrink...

I go for the third: all Yozi have a reason for being what and who they are, even if that reason is messed up. It's less "conceal" and more "being unable to understand" in Oramus' case.

I think it's time to crack open the (somewhat) large bag of notes and stuff I collected while studying Oramus. Please note I am listing the following just for the sake of completion, I am not saying everything is right and should be included:

Spoiler: Because it's a lot

-This is the charmset used for my quest on SV. Please note this was made for the sake of writing a good quest and it has several issues when dealing with official plays.
-The charmset (2) made by Arrghus during the times of White Wolf Forum.
-A beginning of charmset written by a fan of Umineko. Personally I would change a lot, like making "Confound" into "Mystify", but the general idea has merits.
-Octarine Angles of Impossibility: a SMA made for those who want to play as being an Eldritch Abomination or a Madoka Witch (sic).
-Eburnean Angles of Lacunae: a SMA made by Revlid. The Goddess Countless Purple Clouds is Yukari in Exalted, though the fandom mostly see her as a 3CD of Oramus.
-The Quicksilver Hand Of Dreams Style: sufficiently thematic to be good inspiration.
-The Isle of Daogu: EarthScorpion is fond of making random Exalted stuff.
-Gunstar Autocthonia Expansion The Realm of the Titans: Czernobog seems to like Star Trek.
-Kekkai: if Oramus governs boundaries, why not play with barriers?
-Xanichi the Eternal Maze (2)(3): a Devil-Tiger version of Tzeentch from Revlid. The man himself said he's okay with us taking inspiration from it.
-Terrifying Argent Witches: because come on, those are totally Infernal Lunars and everyone think the same.
-Ikanii: a homebrew Yozi from thinker. Could use a lot of work and rip-off Abyssals a little, but again good inspiration.
-Coruscant March of Constellations Style, Albicant Pursuit of Truth Style and Chalcedony Rhythm of Time: three SMA dealing with important concepts.

-The post of EarthScorpion that started everything.
-Prince of Brass (2) has some very interesting ideas.
-The Book of Ten Thousand Scorpions: look up Narrative Shredding Bolt, Dragon Breaks Reality and Walking Argent Impossibility


Oramus' Act of Villainy directly from Robert Vance's notes:

Reckless Devil Luck (but I prefer calling it True Chaos Stratagem)

Oramus is a creature of madness and passion, the firstborn child of chaos. So inscrutable and incomprehensible are his alien motives that they seem decided by little more than random chance to others. Whenever the Infernal uses a random method such as coin-flipping or dice-rolling to make a significant decision, roll her Conviction. Each successes removes one point of accrued Limit. The Infernal must face some risk of harm or significant consequences from at least one of the possible outcomes of her decision to qualify for this act of villainy, and rolls to remove Limit only after she has gone through with the chosen course of action.


Dialogues of Exalted Writers about Oramus:
Tales of Oramus
The Beyond of Oramus
Neph Talks Set Theory
Thoughts on Yozi Origins
The Beyond

My most recent versions of Oramus' starting Charms:

SENSES BEYOND SENSIBILITY
Cost: —; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: None

The mind of Oramus follows no logic that beings confused by mere contradiction can follow. Upon learning this Charm the Infernal gains the following benefits:

-She ignores all external penalties caused by insufficient or inappropriate evidence when performing Investigation rolls, Oramus' un-logic allowing for grand leaps of causation and correlation with exquisite grace. Note that this does not allow Investigation rolls to be made when they could not be taken.

-The mad are like open books for the Dragon Beyond the World to mould: all Derangements and active Limit Breaks are made Obvious to the Infernal with a successful Awareness roll; social attacks against characters with Derangements see the MDV of their target reduced by the derangement's mutation point total rating. In the case of targets suffering from Limit Break reduce their MDV by their Primary Virtue rating.

-Finally, the warlock's opened mind and its leaps of logic are hard for limited beings to follow: characters suffer an external penalty of (Infernal's Essence) to Read Motivation actions taken against the Infernal, and she suffers the same penalty to all efforts to explain her motives or the reasons for her actions. If the roll would have succeeded but for this external penalty, the other party is merely left with the assurance that the Infernal has reasons for what she does, though they are beyond their ken.

PATHS BEYOND WITNESSING
Cost: 2m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious
Duration: One action
Prerequisite Charms: Senses Beyond Sensibility

None have seen the secret routes through which the Dragon Beyond the World squirmed in the Time Before. Until now. While this Charm is active the Infernal can turn any active movement (generally represented by a Move, Dash or Jump action) into a stride through unknown realms, causing her to vanish and nigh-instantly reappear at her intended destination. She can be targeted as normal at the start and end points of her movement, but effectively does not exist between them, allowing her to avoid detection or pass between tight spaces, through treacherous ground or over empty space without issue. This does not let her move any further than she normally could, or "through" physical barriers that she could not normally bypass. Spaces warded against teleportation provoke a roll-off, with failure causing the Infernal to treat them as an impenetrable barrier for that scene.

A second purchase of this Charm allows the Infernal to extend its duration indefinitely, though this version of the Charm has a cost of (10 - Essence) motes. Additionally, she can take up to (Essence) willing or inactive characters she is touching with her on her impossible movements. Any character who does not know Senses Beyond Sensibility lose a point of Willpower from this journey as a Shaping effect, left disoriented by the eldritch paths behind reality.

(OOC: This Charm works as the Terrifying Argent Witch Charm Secret Path Step)

FORBIDDEN LORE SUSURRUS
Cost: 7m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Illusion
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Senses Beyond Sensibility

Within the demon realm the whispers of Oramus fill the blasted plain upon which he rests. To listen to them courts madness - but their secrets are beyond price. The Infernal uses this charm immediately after interacting with a target: she rolls (Manipulation + Lore) at difficulty 1 with an external penalty equal to the target's Temperance. If successful the Charm forces the player of the other character to declare the form of information that the character most desires to know - for example 'who killed my husband?' or 'where is the Scarlet Empress?'. If the Infernal later provides that information (which must be correct to the best of her present knowledge), the whispers worm into the target's head: as an Illusion effect he gains a Derangement with a rating no higher than the Infernal's degrees of success on the roll. As a second Illusion the target also gain an Intimacy of "Obsessive Fascination" towards the Infernal. The Illusions may be suppressed for a cost of one Willpower per scene each. They last until the character has spent 8wp on resisting this effect, or until the target finds the information to be false.


UNLIKE ANY OTHER
Cost: —; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: None

The Dragon Beyond the World is a paradox: he should not exist and yet does. Upon learning this Charm the Infernal's chakra realign in a configuration kin to the Beyond, suffering a single level of unsoakable Aggravate damage; thus channeled, his Essence becomes unlike anything seen in this world. The Anima is warped, of a color different from all that exist in Creation that cannot be described; the warlock's Caste Mark is undecipherable, appearing as a blur, a whiteout mark, a broken glyph and other mysterious signs. This Charm's effects protect against mundane attempt at reading the Infernal's nature, her Essence rating and the effect of her Charms. Against magical effects it provides (Essence) bonus successes to the roll-off. Charms such as All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight and Insignificant Embers Intuition return nonsensical results, such as unintelligible babble or broken words that cause headaches.

PRISMATIC PNEUMA EVOLUTION
Cost: 1+m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive (Step 1)
Keywords: Combo-OK, Desecration, Obvious, Shaping, Sorcerous, Stackable
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Unlike Any Other

The breath of Oramus consumes the simplicity of matter and replaces it with an infinite complexity of wonder and terror. The Infernal exhales a stream of mad radiance shinning with unrealized possibilities: this is a ranged attack with a range of (Essence) yards and aimed with (Willpower + Essence). When the Infernal activates this Charm she can pay one or more motes (to a maximum of seven motes per activation) and applies random positive physical mutations to the target based on the number of motes spent: pox costs one mote, an affliction costs two motes, a blight costs three motes, and an abomination costs four motes. These mutations are applied normally as a Desecration effect (though the Creature Of Darkness mutation does not count toward the cost of the Charm), and fade at a rate of (target's Essence) of mutation dots per day, rounding up if necessary, and starting with mutations of the highest value. The mutations themselves are Sorcerous and may be dispelled with the appropriate countermagic.

At Essence 3+ the Infernal may increase the cost of this Charm by one point of temporary Willpower to make any mutations applied by this Charm permanent, at the usual xp cost. Doing so prevents the mutations from being Sorcerous, making them immune to countermagic.

At Essence 4+ the additional cost to make mutations permanent is waived if the Charm is used on a willing target.

(OOC: This take inspiration from the Devil-Tiger Xanichi the Eternal Maze, from Revlid)

PS: there is more, but later.

 

[Drak4806]

I think it's time to crack open the (somewhat) large bag of notes and stuff I collected while studying Oramus. Please note I am listing the following just for the sake of completion, I am not saying everything is right and should be included:

Spoiler: Because it's a lot

-This is the charmset used for my quest on SV. Please note this was made for the sake of writing a good quest and it has several issues when dealing with official plays.
-The charmset (2) made by Arrghus during the times of White Wolf Forum.
-A beginning of charmset written by a fan of Umineko. Personally I would change a lot, like making "Confound" into "Mystify", but the general idea has merits.
-Octarine Angles of Impossibility: a SMA made for those who want to play as being an Eldritch Abomination or a Madoka Witch (sic).
-Eburnean Angles of Lacunae: a SMA made by Revlid. The Goddess Countless Purple Clouds is Yukari in Exalted, though the fandom mostly see her as a 3CD of Oramus.
-The Quicksilver Hand Of Dreams Style: sufficiently thematic to be good inspiration.
-The Isle of Daogu: EarthScorpion is fond of making random Exalted stuff.
-Gunstar Autocthonia Expansion The Realm of the Titans: Czernobog seems to like Star Trek.
-Kekkai: if Oramus governs boundaries, why not play with barriers?
-Xanichi the Eternal Maze (2)(3): a Devil-Tiger version of Tzeentch from Revlid. The man himself said he's okay with us taking inspiration from it.
-Terrifying Argent Witches: because come on, those are totally Infernal Lunars and everyone think the same.
-Ikanii: a homebrew Yozi from thinker. Could use a lot of work and rip-off Abyssals a little, but again good inspiration.
-Coruscant March of Constellations Style, Albicant Pursuit of Truth Style and Chalcedony Rhythm of Time: three SMA dealing with important concepts.

-The post of EarthScorpion that started everything.
-Prince of Brass (2) has some very interesting ideas.
-The Book of Ten Thousand Scorpions: look up Narrative Shredding Bolt, Dragon Breaks Reality and Walking Argent Impossibility


Oramus' Act of Villainy directly from Robert Vance's notes:

Reckless Devil Luck (but I prefer calling it True Chaos Stratagem)

Oramus is a creature of madness and passion, the firstborn child of chaos. So inscrutable and incomprehensible are his alien motives that they seem decided by little more than random chance to others. Whenever the Infernal uses a random method such as coin-flipping or dice-rolling to make a significant decision, roll her Conviction. Each successes removes one point of accrued Limit. The Infernal must face some risk of harm or significant consequences from at least one of the possible outcomes of her decision to qualify for this act of villainy, and rolls to remove Limit only after she has gone through with the chosen course of action.


Dialogues of Exalted Writers about Oramus:
Tales of Oramus
The Beyond of Oramus
Neph Talks Set Theory
Thoughts on Yozi Origins
The Beyond

My most recent versions of Oramus' starting Charms:

SENSES BEYOND SENSIBILITY
Cost: —; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: None

The mind of Oramus follows no logic that beings confused by mere contradiction can follow. Upon learning this Charm the Infernal gains the following benefits:

-She ignores all external penalties caused by insufficient or inappropriate evidence when performing Investigation rolls, Oramus' un-logic allowing for grand leaps of causation and correlation with exquisite grace. Note that this does not allow Investigation rolls to be made when they could not be taken.

-The mad are like open books for the Dragon Beyond the World to mould: all Derangements and active Limit Breaks are made Obvious to the Infernal with a successful Awareness roll; social attacks against characters with Derangements see the MDV of their target reduced by the derangement's mutation point total rating. In the case of targets suffering from Limit Break reduce their MDV by their Primary Virtue rating.

-Finally, the warlock's opened mind and its leaps of logic are hard for limited beings to follow: characters suffer an external penalty of (Infernal's Essence) to Read Motivation actions taken against the Infernal, and she suffers the same penalty to all efforts to explain her motives or the reasons for her actions. If the roll would have succeeded but for this external penalty, the other party is merely left with the assurance that the Infernal has reasons for what she does, though they are beyond their ken.

PATHS BEYOND WITNESSING
Cost: 2m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious
Duration: One action
Prerequisite Charms: Senses Beyond Sensibility

None have seen the secret routes through which the Dragon Beyond the World squirmed in the Time Before. Until now. While this Charm is active the Infernal can turn any active movement (generally represented by a Move, Dash or Jump action) into a stride through unknown realms, causing her to vanish and nigh-instantly reappear at her intended destination. She can be targeted as normal at the start and end points of her movement, but effectively does not exist between them, allowing her to avoid detection or pass between tight spaces, through treacherous ground or over empty space without issue. This does not let her move any further than she normally could, or "through" physical barriers that she could not normally bypass. Spaces warded against teleportation provoke a roll-off, with failure causing the Infernal to treat them as an impenetrable barrier for that scene.

A second purchase of this Charm allows the Infernal to extend its duration indefinitely, though this version of the Charm has a cost of (10 - Essence) motes. Additionally, she can take up to (Essence) willing or inactive characters she is touching with her on her impossible movements. Any character who does not know Senses Beyond Sensibility lose a point of Willpower from this journey as a Shaping effect, left disoriented by the eldritch paths behind reality.

(OOC: This Charm works as the Terrifying Argent Witch Charm Secret Path Step)

FORBIDDEN LORE SUSURRUS
Cost: 7m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Illusion
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Senses Beyond Sensibility

Within the demon realm the whispers of Oramus fill the blasted plain upon which he rests. To listen to them courts madness - but their secrets are beyond price. The Infernal uses this charm immediately after interacting with a target: she rolls (Manipulation + Lore) at difficulty 1 with an external penalty equal to the target's Temperance. If successful the Charm forces the player of the other character to declare the form of information that the character most desires to know - for example 'who killed my husband?' or 'where is the Scarlet Empress?'. If the Infernal later provides that information (which must be correct to the best of her present knowledge), the whispers worm into the target's head: as an Illusion effect he gains a Derangement with a rating no higher than the Infernal's degrees of success on the roll. As a second Illusion the target also gain an Intimacy of "Obsessive Fascination" towards the Infernal. The Illusions may be suppressed for a cost of one Willpower per scene each. They last until the character has spent 8wp on resisting this effect, or until the target finds the information to be false.


UNLIKE ANY OTHER
Cost: —; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: None

The Dragon Beyond the World is a paradox: he should not exist and yet does. Upon learning this Charm the Infernal's chakra realign in a configuration kin to the Beyond, suffering a single level of unsoakable Aggravate damage; thus channeled, his Essence becomes unlike anything seen in this world. The Anima is warped, of a color different from all that exist in Creation that cannot be described; the warlock's Caste Mark is undecipherable, appearing as a blur, a whiteout mark, a broken glyph and other mysterious signs. This Charm's effects protect against mundane attempt at reading the Infernal's nature, her Essence rating and the effect of her Charms. Against magical effects it provides (Essence) bonus successes to the roll-off. Charms such as All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight and Insignificant Embers Intuition return nonsensical results, such as unintelligible babble or broken words that cause headaches.

PRISMATIC PNEUMA EVOLUTION
Cost: 1+m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Reflexive (Step 1)
Keywords: Combo-OK, Desecration, Obvious, Shaping, Sorcerous, Stackable
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Unlike Any Other

The breath of Oramus consumes the simplicity of matter and replaces it with an infinite complexity of wonder and terror. The Infernal exhales a stream of mad radiance shinning with unrealized possibilities: this is a ranged attack with a range of (Essence) yards and aimed with (Willpower + Essence). When the Infernal activates this Charm she can pay one or more motes (to a maximum of seven motes per activation) and applies random positive physical mutations to the target based on the number of motes spent: pox costs one mote, an affliction costs two motes, a blight costs three motes, and an abomination costs four motes. These mutations are applied normally as a Desecration effect (though the Creature Of Darkness mutation does not count toward the cost of the Charm), and fade at a rate of (target's Essence) of mutation dots per day, rounding up if necessary, and starting with mutations of the highest value. The mutations themselves are Sorcerous and may be dispelled with the appropriate countermagic.

At Essence 3+ the Infernal may increase the cost of this Charm by one point of temporary Willpower to make any mutations applied by this Charm permanent, at the usual xp cost. Doing so prevents the mutations from being Sorcerous, making them immune to countermagic.

At Essence 4+ the additional cost to make mutations permanent is waived if the Charm is used on a willing target.

(OOC: This take inspiration from the Devil-Tiger Xanichi the Eternal Maze, from Revlid)

PS: there is more, but later.

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Wow that's a lot of stuff. Do you have something similar for Hegra?

 

[Alexander]

Wow that's a lot of stuff. Do you have something similar for Hegra?

Click to shrink...

As a matter of fact I do: this is a list of Hegra charms made by The Demented One himself. I think they're balanced, at least compared to another set with similar names that appeared in the Onyx Path forum.

Among what I listed in the post below, today I had the most interesting inspiration. I would like to call your attention to the charms made by Arrghus, especially Invoked Firmament Disjunction. Borgstromantic-y of the charm aside, I was reminded of it while reading a manga called Get Backers (relevant page).

While my initial idea was for Oramus to attack via sound, on the other hand the idea of a series of charms that revolve around creating a boundary around yourself and make the area inside your territory with a lot of effects (like an AT Field)...well, I find it very inspiring. What do all of you think?

 

[Peanuckle]

Oramus' themes definitely encompass boundaries. You could have effects like lowering/raising target numbers, extra attacks, adding or removing environmental effects, etc.

The trouble is in making it a balanced charm.

 

[Glasbowl14]

What if you gave all of Oramus' non-permanent charms the blasphemy key word? Not entirely sure if that would balance it enough, or just make them bad as a whole. But it would mean that any time you wanted to use an Oramus charm you'd have to be ready to skip town.

Or something like, the more you use them in a scene the more existence/heaven/reality/whatever fights against you, with the effect increasing faster for higher essence charms. This was they might be stronger than average, but you have to use them sparingly, or else.

 

[Peanuckle]

What if you gave all of Oramus' non-permanent charms the blasphemy key word? Not entirely sure if that would balance it enough, or just make them bad as a whole. But it would mean that any time you wanted to use an Oramus charm you'd have to be ready to skip town.

Or something like, the more you use them in a scene the more existence/heaven/reality/whatever fights against you, with the effect increasing faster for higher essence charms. This was they might be stronger than average, but you have to use them sparingly, or else.

Click to shrink...

That's too oppressive of a handicap. One or two charms being a Blasphemy could become a useful strategic tool to fool the enemy, though.

 

[Alexander]

What if you gave all of Oramus' non-permanent charms the blasphemy key word? Not entirely sure if that would balance it enough, or just make them bad as a whole. But it would mean that any time you wanted to use an Oramus charm you'd have to be ready to skip town.

Or something like, the more you use them in a scene the more existence/heaven/reality/whatever fights against you, with the effect increasing faster for higher essence charms. This was they might be stronger than average, but you have to use them sparingly, or else.

Click to shrink...

I thought about it, but like Peanuckle said it's too much of an handicap.

Does someone else have an idea they want to share?

 

[kinglugia]

Should we add the Bloodborne Great Ones theme into Oramus' whole theme as well? They seem to mesh well with anything lol.
Admittedly, one should read this, as it looks fantastic
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JL5acskAT_2t062HILImBkV8eXAwaqOj611mSjK-vZ8/edit

 

[Peanuckle]

Should we add the Bloodborne Great Ones theme into Oramus' whole theme as well? They seem to mesh well with anything lol.

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The themes from BB that Oramus matches with can be found in any cosmic horror medium. The more unique themes of childlessness, surrogacy and power through blood don't really match him.

I suppose you could get some kind of "child-making" charm out of how Oramus made Luna, by taking a bunch of crazy nightmares and having them fight to the last one standing. That does kind of match the Hunt.

 

[kinglugia]

I suppose you could get some kind of "child-making" charm out of how Oramus made Luna, by taking a bunch of crazy nightmares and having them fight to the last one standing. That does kind of match the Hunt.

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Then you'll at least need some kind of charm to induce nightmares, another to pull them out and actualize it, maybe some kind of charm that allows you to detect nightmares (passively?), and the last to, idk, empower the last nightmare standing? Some kind of charm to induce strife to those wracked by nightmares? Some kind of Shaping/Transformation charm that stacks all the mutancy and shit?

 

[Alexander]

Should we add the Bloodborne Great Ones theme into Oramus' whole theme as well? They seem to mesh well with anything lol.
Admittedly, one should read this, as it looks fantastic
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JL5acskAT_2t062HILImBkV8eXAwaqOj611mSjK-vZ8/edit

Click to shrink...

A great read, but like Peanuckle the theme that can be applied to Oramus are common to all cosmic horror medium. Admittedly I thought adapting the Insight mechanisms, either as a Charm or new Background, where you grow eyes in your brains along with Derangements but also gain perks, like a Byakugan-like vision.

I think we may have jumped the boat there, so maybe it's best to re-start from step one. To characterize Oramus we should start by define his Urge. Currently there are three possibilities:

ORAMAIC URGE (THE URGE TO CREATE)

All Primordials were inventors par-excellence: from the mighty Theion to the sickly Autochthon, they all rightfully earned their titles as Makers of the World. Oramus internalized that fervor: an artist at heart, he was a hurricane of inspiration to his siblings, staring deeply into the Beyond to grasp shards of impossibilities and bring forth wonders truly never seen before. Now confined within the cage of his wings he has little scope to exercise his aesthetic sensibilities. Nonetheless, the Dragon Beyond the World's urge for self-expression always finds a way: singular creatures sometimes rise from the stones around him or squeeze out from between his wings like infants from the womb, each of them like nothing that has ever been born before or since; at other times he appears in the dreams of demons or mortals as a psychic muse, overwhelming their souls with impossible visions that can only be exorcised through imperfect mimesis in painting, sculpture, dance or song. The Urge of Oramus is to create some new world-changing thing, a wonder whose invention rocks the world and drives all either to imitate or rail against it. High-Compassion Oramaic Princes are driven to create new races and species to populate Creation or the Demon City, while High-Conviction Princes are urged to make new magical and technical developments. High-Temperance Princes are usually compelled towards the production of artwork, while High-Valor Oramaic Princes are lead to create nations and empires and spread them over the face of Creation.

Examples of Oramaic Urges includes:
-Create a new breed of invasive plant to choke the forests of the East.
-Compose a symphony so alien to audiences that it causes riots in the streets of the Blessed Isle.
-Build a new weapons system that utterly reshapes Creation's paradigm of warfare.
-Forge a new empire, capable of challenging the Realm, in the Threshold.

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Oramian Urge: The Urge to Mystify

It is the nature of Oramus to impose boundaries on others, to create rules and taboos, oaths and strictures that serve to grant power and definition to the world at the cost of freedom. It is also the way of the Dragon Beyond to surpass those boundaries through the mystery of his own nature. Thus Oramus glories in superstition, myth and legend. Of solutions without understanding. Revelation without explanation. Oramus is pleased when Infernals create customs that make no sense, or myths out of nothingness, or encourage fanatical dependence on a single set of codes or strictures with no comprehension as to the meaning or justification behind them. He sleeps more peacefully when the ignorant simply accept the power of their betters, or the weakness of their inferiors, without observing the world around them or wondering why this is so. When others are content to accept the world around them, and glory in its treasures and mysteries without true understanding, Oramus sleeps.

Possible examples of Lotophagian urges include:
-Convince the people of Nexus that the Emissary favours businesses who employ unbound demons.
-Persuade the leaders of the Realm to decide on complex matters of military policy by asking a blind mortal beggar who claims to speak for the Immaculate Dragons.
-Introduce a custom of sacrificing ones firstborn to the Haslanti league, on the grounds that it inexplicably makes the winters warmer.
-Torture and kill those who seek the true names of the Deathlords.

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From the Xanichi Charmset

THE XANICHAN URGE (THE URGE TO CHANGE)

Xanichan Urges push their bearers onward with the need for revolution, for alteration and chaos and reaction after reaction, treating the world as touchpaper to a glorious explosion of change. Stagnation, tradition and contentment are the enemies of Xanichi, as he seeks to turn the wheels of the world ever-faster, only bothering to hide his machinations half of the time (unless, of course, that is what he wants his opponents to think). It matters little if he succeeds in his latest plot and provokes a new, burning mutation in the fabric of reality, or if he seems to fail, forcing others to adapt in order to fend off his reforms; either way, the universe must react to his diabolical alchemy.

Possible examples of a Xanichan Urge might include:
• Inspire revolution throughout the Realm.
• Reform the Celestial Bureaucracy.
• Dissolve all of Creation into Pure Chaos.
• Create a new Creation out of Pure Chaos.
• Turn Whitewall into a city of mutants and beastmen.

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What do you think?

 

[kinglugia]

Xanichan? What the fuck is this, some kind of otaku Yozi/DT?

Insight mechanisms

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I dunno, the Bloodborne protagonist doesn't seem so cray cray to me lol. But maybe some kind of All Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight that allows you to see into the metagame or something? Or maybe adds a bonus to Wyld/Raksha bullshit?

And depending on how you fluff it, it could become Permanent in its effects once you reach a high enough essence? With an active version that grants you greater benefits but has a higher chance to gain Derangements?

Also, for some reason, I see Oramus' urge is the urge to Enlighten mortals or something. Well, Infernals of his aspect, that is. Like, cleanse their mind of their beastly idiocy, but replace 'beastly idiocy' with, idk, something something stasis of creation something something.

Like Adorjan when she isn't being a murderbuddha.

 

[Peanuckle]

SPLIT-MIND SPAWNING
Cost: 5 motes, 1 willpower; Mins: Essence 4; Type: Permanent
Keywords: Sorcerous
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite charms: ???

When Oramus created Luna, he spurned the methods of his shadow, seeing the impossible weaknesses concealed by Sol's perfection. Instead, he reached deep into the Beyond and plucked forth the impossible monsters of his worst nightmares, setting them upon each other until only the Argent Maiden stood victorious, blood-soaked and form-filled. The Infernal mimics this methodology, trusting in his own secret horrors to claw their way to fruition. Anytime the Infernal sleeps, she may fall into a deep nightmare where any and all fears, doubts, insecurities and other private torments manifest. Should the Infernal suffer from any Derangements, the highest-rated of these succeeds in slaying and consuming its fellow terrors; otherwise the storyteller may choose or randomly select which creature survives the mental combat. Once the victor is determined, the Infernal wakes from her night-terror, screaming the monster of her mind forth into reality. The nightmare-made-flesh should mechanically be a demon of the first circle, though if it was born from a Derangement it receives its rating as bonus points for creation. The mind-spawn has no particular loyalty towards the Infernal (thought it is never immediately hostile, even if born from a self-harming mental disease) but has its own alien agendas based on the madness from which it spawned. It may be summoned and bound like a first circle demon, though such beings are unsuitable for most purposes outside its interests. If the Infernal is targeted by countermagic at any time during this process, the nightmare aborts and all progress is lost.

Thoughts?

 

[frozenchicken]

Well, 'children' is a theme of Oramus, though I can honestly say I didn't expect it to express quite like that.