Phobos VII [Complete]

[HypoSoc]

So, just a minor point. I know in this thread that I used the word Princeps for the Emperor, as an explicit nod to Antonine Golden Age Rome.

I have since change my mind, and edited accordingly. The Title "Dominus" used by Diocletian era Rome is far more accurate, as the "Princepate" of Rome was a period where the Emperor put on aspirations of being an approachable everyman, to pretned at still being a continuation of the Republic.

Comparatively, the "Dominate" period was marked in part by the Emperor acting as an unapproachable divine figure, separate from and beyond the citizenry of the period, guarded from public access by both a wall of bureaucracy and cultural norms, and seen as invested with the ultimate power of god.

This isn't about Tyranny (as you had very tyrannical emperors and the Principate and very enlightened emperors in the Dominate), but about Pretentions.

The Princeps is the best person for the job that needs to be done, and you are a fool to think otherwise because there is no one better.
The Dominus is utterly perfect and you are committing treason/blaspheme by casting aspersions on their character.

The latter is far more accurate in describing Von Graft's role in this society.

 

[prandom]

Hey, it's back! I'm glad, I really enjoyed this story.

 

[TrueNameArchFrenemy]

Ooh, I wonder where Henri got a modern lighter. Phobos perhaps?

 

[HypoSoc]

Ooh, I wonder where Henri got a modern lighter. Phobos perhaps?

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Henri is just super rich, being the son of a Patrician. And the upper class have access to luxuries the commoners have no concept of.

 

[HypoSoc]

Trying to write for word count definitely leads to bulked up chapters. The last three chapters probably could have been one or two given the actual plot content.

But that's fine. It is a process, to write down literally everything and only remove the most egregious, and I am making more progress than I would otherwise.

When I am actually finished with it all, I will go back with a hatchet is put the word count in the shredder. Actually typing the words out is only half the work of writing. Editing is the other half. I will leave that half to future me.

 

[HypoSoc]

Question to the few readers: I think the nature of elixirs was one I didn't advertise before this, so, after reading about it, how predictable was it in retrospect?

As far as setting details, this isn't really meant to be some big, thematic "soylent green is people" situation. I am pretty much following genre conventions, I would say (whatever you might call this particular genre), so if you could predict the "twist" with time to spare, then that is a good sign that I am writing the setting correctly.

If it was an honest surprise, that would be a fine reaction as well, since it works with the character's point of view.

The only really "bad" reaction, from my perspective would be if A) it seemed to come completely out of left field, and B) it came across as being gross and grim for pure shock value rather than a matter of the setting being what it was.

I am interested in what anyone has to say about it, or any other part of the setting/story. Please, feel free to comment.

 

[TrueNameArchFrenemy]

Question to the few readers: I think the nature of elixirs was one I didn't advertise before this, so, after reading about it, how predictable was it in retrospect?

As far as setting details, this isn't really meant to be some big, thematic "soylent green is people" situation. I am pretty much following genre conventions, I would say (whatever you might call this particular genre), so if you could predict the "twist" with time to spare, then that is a good sign that I am writing the setting correctly.

If it was an honest surprise, that would be a fine reaction as well, since it works with the character's point of view.

The only really "bad" reaction, from my perspective would be if A) it seemed to come completely out of left field, and B) it came across as being gross and grim for pure shock value rather than a matter of the setting being what it was.

I am interested in what anyone has to say about it, or any other part of the setting/story. Please, feel free to comment.

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Spoiler: Spoilers?

I personally had a thought it might be a soylent green situation if only because Von Graft's whole world is a soylent green situation for himself, and his whole "Consume"/"Graft" aeromancy concept, what with the "ascending", but that relies a little on polyhistor-verse knowledge that's perhaps "spoilery" or at least outside this writing's scope at this point. Didn't know if it was even secret though, thought maybe it could be a cover for what happens to the bodies of gladiators - "No, No, the Dominus doesn't /eat/ people, don't be ridiculous, those people are recycled into magic elixirs, of course".

Gonna take a wild stab in the dark as to why they need to use human bodies and guess that it's necessary to "attune" stuff from the world von graft is using closer to Gaia, under the assumption that for a "universal" magic like geomancy to function partially, as opposed to the normal binary status of yes/no, Von Graft's world must be right on the border of Gaia, and because the seed humans of von graft's world are from Gaia, via whatever hydromancy and/or aeromancy Von Graft has, they can be used to shift closer.

 

[VerBlinkel]

Question to the few readers: I think the nature of elixirs was one I didn't advertise before this, so, after reading about it, how predictable was it in retrospect?

As far as setting details, this isn't really meant to be some big, thematic "soylent green is people" situation. I am pretty much following genre conventions, I would say (whatever you might call this particular genre), so if you could predict the "twist" with time to spare, then that is a good sign that I am writing the setting correctly.

If it was an honest surprise, that would be a fine reaction as well, since it works with the character's point of view.

The only really "bad" reaction, from my perspective would be if A) it seemed to come completely out of left field, and B) it came across as being gross and grim for pure shock value rather than a matter of the setting being what it was.

I am interested in what anyone has to say about it, or any other part of the setting/story. Please, feel free to comment.

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It seemed pretty "out of left field" to me. Looking back, I can kind of see that if it weren't something like this, the world would look different. Human remains are an effective bottleneck for elixir production. That being said, I don't know what genre conventions you'd be following to have this be expected, but perhaps I merely thought we were in a very different genre. I though this was a character piece with in realistic roman setting and some magic for flavoring. Not the magical cannibalism club.

I've read all your other work, so I'm aware of the universe that this takes place in. I don't understand how human remains works as a magic potion ingredient effective enough that it's the most widely used source of magic on this world. Von Graft has that one sided rivalry with Kroll right? So he knows about hydromancy and geomancy. I'm assuming that he's not having the people he'll end up grafting learn them because he can't, as some aspect of the world/universe Phobos takes place in. There's been some "hydromancy is weird here" in the story, but I don't think we know why yet.

So with hydromancy and geomancy out, we have runes and potions left. I suppose runes are hydromantic and geomantic, so they might be out as well. So I see that we're left with only potions, and that's definitely matches up with what we've seen in the writing. I just don't see how human corpses fit into the potions.

At this point, I know that it's not just because of the grim dark, but only really because I trust you as an author so much. As a reader, I'd want to be able to look back at the story so far and see that this fits in with how the magic has been shown to work and how the society functions. It should be able to explain little mysteries that we've seen along the way, like a puzzle piece that was missing. Maybe it has and I'm just not seeing it, but I don't feel that this explains anything or fleshes out our understanding of why things are the way they are.

An alternate way of looking at it; if you'd given an alternate bottleneck to elixir production, I think the story so far would have made just as much sense. Everything's terrible because it's ancient Rome (and the god-dictator/head of government that only cares about eating people), not because elixirs incentivize anti-social behavior.

Overall, I'm really enjoying the story and the writing, but I'm only not in the "bad reaction" for the human remains part because I've read all your other work and trust you.

Also, I when I was thinking about this, I considered the possibility that this was the universe Von Graft's aeromancy came from. I don't think it's likely, but it raised the question of if people can go to the universe their aeromancy comes from, or does that raise some kind of error in how they function?

 

[HypoSoc]

Gonna take a wild stab in the dark as to why they need to use human bodies and guess that it's necessary to "attune" stuff from the world von graft is using closer to Gaia, under the assumption that for a "universal" magic like geomancy to function partially, as opposed to the normal binary status of yes/no, Von Graft's world must be right on the border of Gaia, and because the seed humans of von graft's world are from Gaia, via whatever hydromancy and/or aeromancy Von Graft has, they can be used to shift closer.

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This isn't correct, but it's not entirely on the wrong track.

I though this was a character piece with in realistic roman setting and some magic for flavoring.

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Well, that is what it is pretending to be on the surface.

I'm assuming that he's not having the people he'll end up grafting learn them because he can't

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That's not precisely true. Von Graft has zero incentive to let magic be well known. A form of magic that is bottlenecked by state control is beneficial.

Everything's terrible because it's ancient Rome (and the god-dictator/head of government that only cares about eating people), not because elixirs incentivize anti-social behavior.

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You are correct in your assessment, the elixirs aren't meant to excuse or justify antisocial behavior. It's the other way around: antisocial behavior justifies elixirs.


I'm wondering if having read my other works might be detrimental to the story. This is meant to be entirely stand alone, even if it does take place in the shared literary world.

My take away is that, when I go back to edit, I should be more blunt with my hints. This was not the first time the corpse trade has come upm nor the state's desire for execution as their go to punishment.

 

[PocketRikimaru]

Seems like every so often a craftsman accidentally does a weird soul/maxwp ritual.

 

[HypoSoc]

Seems like every so often a craftsman accidentally does a weird soul/maxwp ritual.

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Pretty darn rare, but yep. That's what happens.

It doesn't really matter as much from the story's perspective, but you can consider the soul craft explanation to be pretty much WoG for my settings.

 

[VerBlinkel]

This was not the first time the corpse trade has come up

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Huh, I must have missed that.

nor the state's desire for execution as their go to punishment.

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I didn't miss that, but I figured that it was just ancient rome being ancient rome. A blood for the blood sport kind of thing.

Von Graft has zero incentive to let magic be well known.

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Can he not graft their magic to him? I get that he couldn't get their geomantic elements (because those aren't a part of a person), assuming that geomancy exists in this universe, but I'd think he could get their circuits and their will.

 

[HypoSoc]

I posted 2 chapters in a row because they were originally just one chapter before I realized just how LONG it had gotten.

That's a bad sign for my pacing, but that's just how NaNoWriMo goes for me. As I might have mentioned before, when I go back to edit everything, I fully expect to halve the word count. But you have to have a large enough marble block before you can carve it down to the statue within.

It is looking like I will be going into next November as well with this project, based on how many scenes are left. I think 12-15 chapters left of the story? I should get one or two done before the months end, so wrapping up will probably take a third November, for a whopping 150,000 word sluggish trek.

I thank you all for suffering through the word vomit.

 

[TrueNameArchFrenemy]

Can he not graft their magic to him? I get that he couldn't get their geomantic elements (because those aren't a part of a person), assuming that geomancy exists in this universe, but I'd think he could get their circuits and their will.

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Von Graft can steal Geomantic prowess, and Aeromancy to a certain degree. The only thing he can't steal is Hydromancy, which is too closely linked to the self/identity to be held by someone other than the originator of that "self".

Thats likely the only reason why the Mad Monk is alive - Von Graft can't steal his hydromancy, and the monk is useful enough alive, that he gets to stick around.

 

[prandom]

Hmm-hmm. I must say, I've enjoyed the philosophical sparring in these past few chapters.

 

[HypoSoc]

Hmm-hmm. I must say, I've enjoyed the philosophical sparring in these past few chapters.

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I'm glad. I was worried it would come across as preachy or out of place.

 

[PocketRikimaru]

Umm i realized later than i should have.

Stas' Aeromancy of Reflect also effects his mind, as he reflects about everything.

 

[HypoSoc]

The above is not the end of Chapter 24, but it is the end of my 50000 words for this November. I will finish this chapter up... some time, like I did with chapter 15. Unlike with Chapter 15, there was enough written to make posting worth the effort.

So, yeah, this was another marathon. I hope you enjoyed it. See you all next year.

 

[VerBlinkel]

I'm gonna be honest. I'll be absolutely shocked if Enjolras isn't subtly mind controlling the crap out of Stas. I will have read so many interactions and thoughts completely wrong.

I hope you enjoyed it. See you all next year.

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As always, your writing is a treat. Thanks for sharing.

 

[PocketRikimaru]

I like it

 

[HypoSoc]

I'm gonna be honest. I'll be absolutely shocked if Enjolras isn't subtly mind controlling the crap out of Stas. I will have read so many interactions and thoughts completely wrong.

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I can address this in a spoiler if you'd like. Or I can let it rest. It might change how you interpret parts of the story.

 

[VerBlinkel]

I can address this in a spoiler if you'd like. Or I can let it rest. It might change how you interpret parts of the story.

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I suppose I would like that. I have what I feel to be a pretty strong hypothesis for what's going on.

I don't think mind control is inherently 'evil', especially if its being used to try to fix an otherwise unfixable situation that's horrible.

Earlier you stated that the elixir = people thing was standard convention for this genre. If it's not too spoilery, what genre is this? Alternatively, what genre has soylent green as a convention?

 

[HypoSoc]

I'm gonna be honest. I'll be absolutely shocked if Enjolras isn't subtly mind controlling the crap out of Stas.

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Spoiler: Open if you wish

Everyone opens these things automatically, but actually consider if you want to be spoiled because it might impact your interpretation of events that haven't even been written yet.

Spoiler

No, Enjolras isn't brainwashing Stas.

Stas is just crushing on the man hard. He's suffering from the halo effect: because the dude gets his engine running, Stas can only see him in the best possible light.

Not to say Enjolras isn't a decent and talented dude, but Stas places him on an unachievable pedestal because he is too fascinated by the man and refuses to acknowledge any flaws.

Like Gatsby and Carroway.

So, I suppose you can call it mind control, but the organic sort and not originating in Enjorlas. It's all hormones.


But this is a background detail that I don't plan on ever directly addressing, since this isn't a romance story, but it does inform character choices in a major way.

If it's not too spoilery, what genre is this? Alternatively, what genre

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Spoiler

Double spoilered again.

Spoiler

Post apocalyptic authoritarian False Utopia?

The world that in first glance looks to be gold but on closer inspection is just a thin gold foil gilding over a mountain of shit?

 

[VerBlinkel]

I'll read this chapter at the end of NaNoWriMo if the story isn't done. I'm not waiting a whole year. I'm just not that patient.

Glad to see you writing again. I've missed your stuff.

 

[HypoSoc]

Hm... so, based on the outline, there are about 10 or so chapters left.

I'm going to make it my goal to actually finish up the story this year. If I don't get it done during NaNoWriMo, I'll try to get it done December, as unless I fall into word bloat, it should be almost done by the end of the month.

And man, word bloat. I feel bad subjecting you to this, because on reread it is pretty awful at times. Especially those chapters written towards the end of the month. NaNoWriMo is great at getting me to sit down and write SOMETHING, but it is terrible at getting me to write quality, since I don't give myself any time to edit.

Once this is done, I'm going to go back and edit EVERYTHING. After all, half of writing is putting words on paper, while the other half is removing words. My target is to halve the word count in the end, so it is more reasonable (that would put it squarely in the 80-100k range). Then I will take that, and try to get it published, which I imagine will take another run of editing.

Speaking of, does anyone know anything about publishing, whether self/independent, or going through a publisher? Any advice would be appreciated. I'm not trying to make money, per se. It's more about crossing an entry off my bucket list.

 

[VerBlinkel]

Speaking of, does anyone know anything about publishing, whether self/independent, or going through a publisher? Any advice would be appreciated. I'm not trying to make money, per se. It's more about crossing an entry off my bucket list.

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Depending on what you're after, this is pretty much all you need.
https://www.draft2digital.com/

Even though the name implies otherwise, they also do print publications.

 

[HypoSoc]

Any thoughts on developments? The plot density has been very high these last few chapters.

 

[Paradosi]

Any thoughts on developments? The plot density has been very high these last few chapters.

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Was actually writing up a response.

I haven't followed the plot too closely(I'd like to read the whole shebang in one go when it's finished), but it's a treat actually seeing Von Graft in action. Definitely some The Thing vibes there.

The Dominus was strong. Impossibly so. But the form in their attack, the stance they held themselves at, was absolutely pathetic to Stas's trained eye. The Dominus was not a trained fighter, to have practiced the forms for weapon use or pugilism or wrestling. But they did not need to be when they overpowered anyone before them with strength and arcanum both.

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This bit caught my eye in particular. I mighta figured that when Von Graft assimilated(or grafted) someone, he'd take their skills as well. Muscle memory and what not. I guess it's one way to put a tamper on how broken his Aeromancy is. That or he's sandbagging.

Say, is Charlie at all aware of Von Graft? I think you mentioned or saw someone mention that Von Graft and Kroll made some moves against one another, and that Spoiler'd bit about his childhood, but I figure the Geomancy Division while maybe not as up-to-date as Kroll's Hydromancy Divison on things would likely be aware of someone like Von Graft. But given that Charlemagne still allows himself to remain so degraded in Mind and Body(even if reversible), it goes to say he either doesn't know much or just doesn't consider him a threat.

 

[Ladoss]

Any thoughts on developments? The plot density has been very high these last few chapters.

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Stas really feels like Muhammad Bahl's lost brother these days. Which is not a bad thing at all, just somewhat amusing.

Expected Phobos and Libertas members to die before this story in finished but that Dominus himself will do heavy lifting? No. That said, leaving aside Aeromancy Thinginess and all his general shittery, he was kinda bleh. Spent way too much time being a big carnivorous immortal fish in a tiny pond filled with mayflies and it shows. Maybe i'm somewhat biased or spoiled there since my standard is Academy and Dominus doesn't look that invincible or competent compared to some people there.

Overall, you're doing a good job of hammering down how rotten and unjust the whole world is with Alain's death and all other stuff but nothing there was truly surprising. Polyhistor trains your reader to be quite numb to such things imo

 

[HypoSoc]

I haven't followed the plot too closely(I'd like to read the whole shebang in one go when it's finished), but it's a treat actually seeing Von Graft in action. Definitely some The Thing vibes there.

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Yeah, I'm trying to make Von Graft feel out of place. I've deliberately made magic use clean and traditional in other parts of the story (other than the Elixir reveal, which serves at a bit of a bridge), so that Von Graft's body horror stands out as wrong.

Say, is Charlie at all aware of Von Graft? I think you mentioned or saw someone mention that Von Graft and Kroll made some moves against one another, and that Spoiler'd bit about his childhood, but I figure the Geomancy Division while maybe not as up-to-date as Kroll's Hydromancy Divison on things would likely be aware of someone like Von Graft. But given that Charlemagne still allows himself to remain so degraded in Mind and Body(even if reversible), it goes to say he either doesn't know much or just doesn't consider him a threat.

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The Geomancy Division does indeed know about Von Graft to varying degrees. Individual houses deal with the Dominus for their own benefit. Charlemagne does not consider anyone a threat.

Stas really feels like Muhammad Bahl's lost brother these days. Which is not a bad thing at all, just somewhat amusing.

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I don't actually know who this is.

Spent way too much time being a big carnivorous immortal fish in a tiny pond filled with mayflies and it shows.

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That is exactly what happened.

Maybe i'm somewhat biased or spoiled there since my standard is Academy and Dominus doesn't look that invincible or competent compared to some people there.

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That is somewhat hard to show, in the scope of the novel, as the world is a deliberately created small pond, but the Dominus's strength tends towards the extreme of invincibility.

If you want some perspective, they just no-selled an attack that was fueled by a couple thousand human sacrifices.

Overall, you're doing a good job of hammering down how rotten and unjust the whole world is with Alain's death and all other stuff but nothing there was truly surprising. Polyhistor trains your reader to be quite numb to such things imo

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Thank you. Alain's death was a pretty important in the story.

As for not being surprising, I don't mind. I've realized over the course of writing this that shocking the reader is counterproductive to the genre. That's why I opted to position the epilogue as a prologue.