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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Mr Zoat said:
"I don't suppose you've got any idea why I haven't recovered the abilities I gained from enlightenment, have you?"
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I'll be honest Paul, the author was getting pretty tired of your shit with the white color quotation marks. It was fine for a few thousand words, but it's been ages now and this one forum is really annoying to try to constantly fix all the tiny color issues.

Thankfully it's not so bad that he decided to flat out replace you completely with a different version of yourself, but just accept it as having been put on notice.

Please avoid special fonts and various colors for at least two to three chapters for best results.
 
Honestly? That's kind of how I expected all of this to end when it started. OL going to talk to the Opidian, and her going "What? No, that's all wrong."

And then just diving into him like a disgruntled plumber. "I just fixed this! How did you muck it up again?"
 
Maxx Crowley said:
Honestly? That's kind of how I expected all of this to end when it started. OL going to talk to the Opidian, and her going "What? No, that's all wrong."

And then just diving into him like a disgruntled plumber. "I just fixed this! How did you muck it up again?"
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Maybe Ophidian would also do something to prevent this? Hopefully.
 
I'd have assumed that Hinon would have taken a metaphysical scan of enlightened Paragon at some point, that seems like an oversight considering his unique connection with the Ophidian and all.

I hope he can learn to quickly transfer his soul into the Honden without losing its integrity at some point, that might be a difficult ability to acquire (or not, considering what he's recently done) but it could be very worthwhile to just teleport the important aspect of you away when facing metaphysical attacks like qwa-matter, Anti-Monitor energies (are they related or just associated with each other?), and probably intense Anti-Life exposure that all threaten the soul itself.

I like the elementalist character a lot, would be nice to see more of him. It's too bad magic isn't more prevalent in space, I'd have liked to see him summon elementals for stuff like a space Pokemon Trainer.
 
DrThoth said:
I'd have assumed that Hinon would have taken a metaphysical scan of enlightened Paragon at some point, that seems like an oversight considering his unique connection with the Ophidian and all.
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Oh she did but her ring's OS update needed more memory space so she needed to delete something. Paul's medical files just didn't seem important at the time since she could always scan him next time he dropped by. Hinon doesn't believe in cloud backups. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
nick012000 said:
Oh, boy. Time for the Return of the Cake Man.
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"We thought we had won. We thought our trap had worked to perfection. But then....."

"We have a present for you!"

"We tried to stop it....we expended every resource we could."

Plasma

"Failed."

Explosive

"Failed."

Kinetic

"Failed."

Hyper intensive Laser

"Failed."

Sonic

"Failed."

The last of our bargained Qwa-matter

"Failed."

"The greatest of our Scarb warriors threw themselves at it in a last, desperate assault to save our people. Countless were simply crushed by its overwhelming bulk. Others....trapped forever in some sort of twisted mockery of the Source wall."

"Our race is finished....and our destroyer's name, that terrible...terrible substance, is finally known to us."

"Fruitcake."
 
Anti-Thesis (part 6)
  • Threadmarks
    • 11th July 2012
    01:48 GMT

    I remember when Lantern Coutara levelled this place.

    She decapitated a couple of senior priests in her opening volley, the ones she wanted dead the most. Then a gaggle of more junior priests who were chanting and holding Taranna in place. Then she started ripping downwards, tossing chunks of building in all directions, hunting down the rest of the clergy while I carried Taranna out of the way. She killed the living priests, destroyed their living quarters, their refectory, their shrines, their shelves of jars of eyes and their catacombs. Then she started smashing the foundations.

    The orange light: it's a hell of a drug.

    But with such strong use of the orange light on a thaumically active world, it should be a reasonable place to do this. Where I'm standing used to be a wine cellar… Not 'grape wine', but functionally equivalent. It's at the bottom of a stone rubble crater, but it's the closest thing to a platform left.

    I've already cleared it of dust and graffiti, and inscribed the runic devices which should ease my passage into the Honden. Or rather, should ease my gaining awareness of the Honden. At the moment I'm a squishy mortal Lantern of no great importance; I lost the ability to easily bestride two realms with my enlightenment. This is just going to be me approaching as a mortal supplicant in a way… I've never really done.

    I look upwards to where the Atlanteans, Lantern Ragnar and Lantern Gozzi are observing.

    "Everyone ready?"

    "I'd…" Dr. Damon looks a little bewildered. "That's a very unusual configuration. Most… People either go for something simple to protect bystanders while enduring the communion with their patron… Or go the other way and use something complex to improve their control."

    "The Ophidian isn't a lightning elemental. All of you already touch her and her realm by feeling avarice. If she could distinguish you from the general orange background of the universe there isn't a ward in existence that could protect you. Fortunately, she… Doesn't do things like that unless prompted."

    Ragnar seems excited by that.

    "Will she come here? Will she want to fight us to prove our worth?"

    "I… I honestly hope not. Since Hinon hasn't said anything yet I don't think she's even noticed that anything's gone wrong, and I'd like it to stay that way. And if she did want you to prove your worth, it wouldn't-."

    "It would be a test of the spirit and not a test of the body, I know. The muscles of my body are not the only ones I have trained in preparation for our next duel! My brother was astonished at my newfound enthusiasm for scholarship."

    "Any profound conclusions?"

    "My goals are simple. My reasons aren't much more sophisticated. I wanted to distinguish myself from my brother, I had some early success in our sparring and I felt a kinship with figures from our heroic sagas. Everything else followed logically."

    Lantern Gozzi's eyes narrow. "You have a curious definition of 'logically'."

    "I sought to exemplify the martial virtues of my own heroes, without reflecting on their actual motives. I saw only the surface, leaving my own deeds… Hollow, by comparison. Therefore I lived a pantomime of the life of a great warrior. My thoughts were logical, but I lacked the wisdom to understand what I was trying to replicate. Now, I have a true reason to act, to impress my own nature onto reality. Illustres, you will not find stealing my ring from my finger as easy next time as it was during our first duel."

    I nod approvingly. "I'm glad to hear it. And I'm glad that you've grasped what I've been trying to teach so readily. I'm almost looking forward to our rematch now."

    He looks put out.

    "Only 'almost'?"

    I sit cross-legged in the centre of the circle, running my hierarchy of needs through my head. I haven't had to do this for a while and it's… A little jerky compared to when I did it while enlightened. I have to pause and think. The ideas come, and I have a definite sense of when I've covered everything, but… Yeah. Lantern Gozzi couldn't find my personal lantern, but we also confirmed that it didn't explode. Which means that I've got no real idea what happened to it. Losing Hinon and Larfleeze's rings is one thing but if I've lost Alan's lantern I'm going to be decidedly put out.

    And… Ready. I extend orange light through the ritual inscriptions on the stone, trying to lose focus with my eyes and gain focus with my soul.

    I want this.

    "This is my cause, this is my fight,
    Shine through the void with orange light,
    I've claimed all within my sight,
    To keep what is mine, that is my right    ."

    "To keep what is mine, that is my right."

    The universe flickers, fragments of orange flames leaping up from the inscriptions, momentarily forming lines, corridors, shapes and ideas I momentarily recognise from my time in the Honden before they collapse once more into mere sparks.

    But who spoke?

    I feel/see the human desires I know well: family and community, food and comfort. Not that those are uniquely human, but the particular manifestation that surrounds-.

    Back in the room. I just can't maintain the connection, though a glance upward shows that my audience is still a little impressed.

    Human desires, and I'm… Human. But I couldn't feel me there.

    Wait. I wasn't using human desires to shield myself. I was using Leentniar desires, that was what I felt-. Their sense of how things should be rather than my own. I… Think, anyway.

    My sense of how things should be is expansive and universalist. I can rest when everyone exists in a system whereby they can pursue their own ends in equilibrium with everyone else, and I fully expect that if I ever die permanently, it will be in the saddle.

    The Leentniar don't think like that, and if I'm going to get my self back, I'm going to need to get closer to their mindset.

    Hiding, that was a strong inclination. Where I would act, they would evade and avoid. I've used stealth to disguise my intent and location; for them it's a way of life. It's based on the cultural assumption that there's nothing worth engaging with outside of their own civilisation, that the value of what they have is actually diminished through contact with the outside. That in turn relates to their shunning the few members of their civilisation who have to leave.

    I've rather underestimated what I'm up against there, haven't I?

    "These drives are based on something, but what?"

    That wasn't the Ophidian. Who the heck is talking? Has someone.. else achieved orange enlightenment? I mean, given the size of the universe that's certainly possible. And I wasn't spending large amounts of time in the Honden, so it isn't all that strange that I haven't encountered them before now.

    A concern for later.

    I really have more in common with their devotion to their own, anyway. That lack of selfishness is quite un-orange, but it's far closer to classical enlightenment. And here it manifests in a genuine desire to be a better Leentniar, to be more like the Leentniar ideal. How many humans even really have an accurate idea about what 'humans' are like beyond what they see in their own culture? Leentniar know their own foibles in a way humans don't and would probably refuse to accept. Again, far closer to classical forms of enlightenment; acceptance without judgement.

    I try to picture living like that myself.

    I match the Leentniar desire to avoid the alien with the human desire to lash out at it to prove that they're not.

    I match the Leentniar desire to become good with the human desire to interpret the self as good.

    And in the Leentniar I see myself. / "And in the human I see myself."
     
    Last edited:
  • Threadmarks
    • Mr Zoat said:
    Lantern Coutara levelled this place
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    Missing an . at the end.

    Mr Zoat said:
    their shines,
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    'shrines'

    Mr Zoat said:
    She decapitated a couple of senior priests in her opening volley, the ones she wanted dead the most. Then a gaggle of more junior priests who were chanting and holding Taranna in place. Then she started ripping downwards, tossing chunks of building in all directions, hunting down the rest of the clergy while I carried Taranna out of the way. She killed the living priests, destroyed their living quarters, their refectory, their shines, their shelves of jars of eyes and their catacombs. Then she started smashing the foundations.
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    She did not like them.

    Mr Zoat said:
    The muscles of my body are not the only ones I have trained in preparation for our next duel!
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    Mr Zoat said:
    My goals are simple. My reasons aren't much more sophisticated. I wanted to distinguish myself from my brother, I had some early success in our sparring and I felt a kinship with figures from our heroic sagas. Everything else followed logically."
    Click to expand...
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    Mr Zoat said:
    "I sought to exemplify the martial virtues of my own heroes, without reflecting on their actual motives. I saw only the surface, leaving my own deeds… Hollow, by comparison. Therefore I lived a pantomime of the life of a great warrior. My thoughts were logical, but I lacked the wisdom to understand what I was trying to replicate. Now, I have a true reason to act, to impress my own nature onto reality. Illustres, you will not find stealing my ring from my finger as easy next time as it was during our first duel."
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    Maybe Gozzi won't be the only one that will achieve enlightenment.

    Mr Zoat said:
    He looks put out.

    "Only 'almost'?
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    Give the guy a break, Paul.

    Mr Zoat said:
    I'm going to need to get closer to their mindset
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    Careful, you may become like Tangseid, given their mindset.

    Mr Zoat said:
    Who the heck is talking?
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    For some reason I'm imagining that it's the enlightened part of Paul and it gained sapience.

    Mr Zoat said:
    And in the Leentniar I see myself. / "And in the human I see myself."
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    Really hope this doesn't lead to him becoming Tangseid 2.0.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    11th July 2012
    01:48 GMT

    I remember when Lantern Coutara levelled this place

    She decapitated a couple of senior priests in her opening volley, the ones she wanted dead the most. Then a gaggle of more junior priests who were chanting and holding Taranna in place. Then she started ripping downwards, tossing chunks of building in all directions, hunting down the rest of the clergy while I carried Taranna out of the way. She killed the living priests, destroyed their living quarters, their refectory, their shines, their shelves of jars of eyes and their catacombs. Then she started smashing the foundations.
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    So, a thorough casting down of the old faith, eh? And entirely warranted in her perception. I do hope she's not having similar reactions to Earth religions while serving as sector Lantern... That could be embarrassing. ...She was on duty on Earth, wasn't she, or did I imagine that?

    The orange light: it's a hell of a drug.

    But with such strong use of the orange light on a thaumically active world, it should be a reasonable place to do this. Where I'm standing used to be a wine cellar… Not 'grape wine', but functionally equivalent. It's at the bottom of a stone rubble crater, but it's the closest thing to a platform left.
    Click to expand...
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    We understand: A local berry-equivalent fermented for use as a sacrament. Or just for the priests personal enjoyment. They struck me as that sort.

    I've already cleared it of dust and graffiti, and inscribed the runic devices which should ease my passage into the Honden. Or rather, should ease my gaining awareness of the Honden. At the moment I'm a squishy mortal Lantern of no great importance; I lost the ability to easily bestride two realms with my enlightenment. This is just going to be me approaching as a mortal supplicant in a way… I've never really done.

    I look upwards to where the Atlanteans, Lantern Ragnar and Lantern Gozzi are observing.
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    I presume the Atlanteans have plenty of diagnostic spells both cast and readied. Hope the Lanterns are taking notes too. They may well be attempting this themselves someday.

    "Everyone ready?"

    "I'd…" Dr. Damon looks a little bewildered. "That's a very unusual configuration. Most… People either go for something simple to protect bystanders while enduring the communion with their patron… Or go the other way and use something complex to improve their control."
    Click to expand...
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    If the Ophidian is in a mood that you're in danger, protective magic won't help you. She'll just eat that, and then you.

    "The Ophidian isn't a lightning elemental. All of you already touch her and her realm by feeling avarice. If she could distinguish you from the general orange background of the universe there isn't a ward in existence that could protect you. Fortunately, she… Doesn't do things like that unless prompted."

    Ragnar seems excited by that.

    "Will she come here? Will she want to fight us to prove our worth?"
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    o_O If you want her too, I suppose? Though she'd probably express confusion at first, until OL explains it to her.

    "I… I honestly hope not. Since Hinon hasn't said anything yet I don't think she's even noticed that anything's gone wrong, and I'd like it to stay that way. And if she did want you to prove your worth, it wouldn't-."

    "It would be a test of the spirit and not a test of the body, I know. The muscles of my body are not the only ones I have trained in preparation for our next duel! My brother was astonished at my newfound enthusiasm for scholarship."
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    Ah, the man can learn! Showing he's more than dumb muscle, I see.

    "Any profound conclusions?"

    "My goals are simple. My reasons aren't much more sophisticated. I wanted to distinguish myself from my brother, I had some early success in our sparring and I felt a kinship with figures from our heroic sagas. Everything else followed logically."
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    That's an... Interesting way to look at things.

    Lantern Gozzi's eyes narrow. "You have a curious definition of 'logically'."

    "I sought to exemplify the martial virtues of my own heroes, without reflecting on their actual motives. I saw only the surface, leaving my own deeds… Hollow, by comparison. Therefore I lived a pantomime of the life of a great warrior. My thoughts were logical, but I lacked the wisdom to understand what I was trying to replicate. Now, I have a true reason to act, to impress my own nature onto reality. Illustres, you will not find stealing my ring from my finger as easy next time as it was during our first duel."
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    ... :confused: Huh. That's an impressive amount of self-reflection for someone most would assume has all his brains in his sword-arm. Or his loins. Heck, He may well find his way into enlightenment by himself at this rate...

    I nod approvingly. "I'm glad to hear it. And I'm glad that you've grasped what I've been trying to teach so readily. I'm almost looking forward to our rematch now."

    He looks put out.

    "Only 'almost'?"
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    Well, think about it. You'll likely be dragging him away from something important. Like fixing some minor race that seemed like a joke in the original comics but turns out to be amazingly good at something no-one else would expect them to be...

    I sit cross-legged in the centre of the circle, running my hierarchy of needs through my head. I haven't had to do this for a while and it's… A little jerky compared to when I did it while enlightened. I have to pause and think. The ideas come, and I have a definite sense of when I've covered everything, but… Yeah. Lantern Gozzi couldn't find my personal lantern, but we also confirmed that it didn't explode. Which means that I've got no real idea what happened to it. Losing Hinon and Larfleeze's rings is one thing but if I've lost Alan's lantern I'm going to be decidedly put out.
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    Honestly, I'm sure Alan wouldn't care that much about it getting trashed. He'd probably just be happy that you;'re alive, if not quite hale and hearty yet. But.. if it wasn't in subspace... Is there a chance it got smushed into the Honden somehow?

    And… Ready. I extend orange light through the ritual inscriptions on the stone, trying to lose focus with my eyes and gain focus with my soul.

    I want this.
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    And so do we, if only to avoid a long plotline of gradual recovery. In- and Out-of-universe motivations for the win.

    "This is my cause, this is my fight,
    Shine through the void with orange light,
    I've claimed all within my sight,
    To keep what is mine, that is my right    ."

    "To keep what is mine, that is my right."
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    :confused: ...Okay, that's not how Best Snek talks. Something is hinky in the realm of Avarice, methinks...

    The universe flickers, fragments of orange flames leaping up from the inscriptions, momentarily forming lines, corridors, shapes and ideas I momentarily recognise from my time in the Honden before they collapse once more into mere sparks.

    But who spoke?
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    Yes, that's the billion spacebuck question, isn't it?

    I feel/see the human desires I know well: family and community, food and comfort. Not that those are uniquely human, but the particular manifestation that surrounds-.

    Back in the room. I just can't maintain the connection, though a glance upward shows that my audience is still a little impressed.
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    Bet the thaumaturgists are getting soooo much data...

    Human desires, and I'm… Human. But I couldn't feel me there.

    Wait. I wasn't using human desires to shield myself. I was using Leentniar desires, that was what I felt-. Their sense of how things should be rather than my own. I… Think, anyway.
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    Well, it's that or look for Reach desires. But that would probably leave you feeling in need of a shower in some cases, I think.

    My sense of how things should be is expansive and universalist. I can rest when everyone exists in a system whereby they can pursue their own ends in equilibrium with everyone else, and I fully expect that if I ever die permanently, it will be in the saddle.

    The Leentniar don't think like that, and if I'm going to get my self back, I'm going to need to get closer to their mindset.
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    Which will be much harder for an unenlightened Lantern to manage. Hmm... Maybe the loss of enlightenment isn't a setback, so much as a test...

    Hiding, that was a strong inclination. Where I would act, they would evade and avoid. I've used stealth to disguise my intent and location; for them it's a way of life. It's based on the cultural assumption that there's nothing worth engaging with outside of their own civilisation, that the value of what they have is actually diminished through contact with the outside. That in turn relates to their shunning the few members of their civilisation who have to leave.

    I've rather underestimated what I'm up against there, haven't I?
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    Don't worry, OL. I'm sure you can climb the Difficulty Cliff (That's what happens when the Difficulty Curve grows too fast too quickly. For instance, in games like Dwarf Fortress.)

    "These drives are based on something, but what?"

    That wasn't the Ophidian. Who the heck is talking? Has someone.. else achieved orange enlightenment? I mean, given the size of the universe that's certainly possible. And I wasn't spending large amounts of time in the Honden, so it isn't all that strange that I haven't encountered them before now.
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    Or maybe, your Soul, the chunk of it that's Orange Light... Came home.

    A concern for later.

    I really have more in common with their devotion to their own, anyway. That lack of selfishness is quite un-orange, but it's far closer to classical enlightenment. And here it manifests in a genuine desire to be a better Leentniar, to be more like the Leentniar ideal. How many humans even really have an accurate idea about what 'humans' are like beyond what they see in their own culture? Leentniar know their own foibles in a way humans don't and would probably refuse to accept. Again, far closer to classical forms of enlightenment; acceptance without judgement.
    Click to expand...
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    Because in fiction, Humans get to be super-diverse, but any non-human sophonts? Their entire race get labelled with a single theme. The Warrior race. The Smart race. The Evil race. I would not doubt that Mr Zoat would make it look that way only to flip that trope on its head here...

    I try to picture living like that myself.

    I match Leentniar desire to avoid the alien with the human desire to lash out at it to prove that they're not.
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    The instinct of Xenophobia. The Other, the Outside. One thing of many, so much to blame for the way humans are today....

    I match the Leentniar desire to become good with the human desire to interpret the self as good.

    And in the Leentniar I see myself. / "And in the human I see myself."
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    And things just went full-on creepshow. See, when I said this was a test, up there... We know OL gained Avarice Enlightenment as a Human. But that very Human outlook on his avarice has shaped his character. He still thinks in a very human way, even at his most inhuman moments... And yet those inhuman moments show a potential for something beyond.

    To truly master the Orange Light, what if he has to learn how to match other forms of desire, of wants and needs. Not just the Human kind but also the Leentniar kind, the Reach kind, the Tamaranean kind, the Maltusian kind... All the various perspectives of Avarice, the way the Ophidian sees the universe. In effect, he had Level 1 Enlightenment. Now he gets to try to reach for Level 2. And what happens when he does? :sneaky:

    Oh, this is going to get really esoteric, isn't it? A conversation with (possibly) himself in the heart of Avarice. Hopefully he can reintegrate himself safely. The last thing we need is something like the end of 'Tron: Legacy'...
     
    Chojin Patriarch said:
    So, a thorough casting down of the old faith, eh? And entirely warranted in her perception. I do hope she's not having similar reactions to Earth religions while serving as sector Lantern... That could be embarrassing. ...She was on duty on Earth, wasn't she, or did I imagine that?
    Click to expand...
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    She's taken Paul's place as sector lantern and she may decide not to interfere with Earths religious practices, unless they were actually committing crimes, either because she respects Paul or because the practices of Earth are nowhere near as barbaric as those of her home.

    Chojin Patriarch said:
    That's an... Interesting way to look at things.
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    But is still very correct.

    Chojin Patriarch said:
    Huh. That's an impressive amount of self-reflection for someone most would assume has all his brains in his sword-arm. Or his loins. Heck, He may well find his way into enlightenment by himself at this rate...
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    Just because he's focused on physical things that doesn't mean he's an idiot.

    The ancient Greeks considered the mind to be as important as the body and in Irish myths Cu Chulainn, who was practically a frat boy and enjoyed fighting, drinking and fucking, was still a very smart man who married his wife for her brains.

    Chojin Patriarch said:
    Yes, that's the billion spacebuck question, isn't it?
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    I'm betting it's the part of him that was taken away.
     
    It would be kind of interesting if he's interacting with the original OL who continued to exist after his death, and he's genuinely just a clone Lantern Gozzi made. Unlikely based on everything explained about what happened to him, but interesting.
     
    inck said:
    when are we going to see Lord of Chaos Constantine?
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    I had the same thought. When reading how Zoat is writing this process/ritual, it seemed like something LC Constantine and LO Constantine would do in order to become one when their arcs advance. The exploration of the past, formation of desires, etc. seem to match the flow and pattern from Hellblazer's "The Hanged Man." Though still distinction reflecting the SI's personality.
     
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