With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Ngamer11 · Sep 24, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
"You're really clever! I can't wait to find out what programs I can run on your brain!"

I can't wait to see how Krono turns things around with his power ring.

Neruz · Sep 24, 2024

As usual with entities like Calculator, it seems like it has not even considered the possibility that the situation is not as it appears to be.

Chojin Patriarch · Sep 24, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
22th December 2282
11:32 GMT -6

The Vault Zero encampment outside of the Vault is really just a loading and unloading area for materials brought in for the research team housed inside, or the occasional piece of broken equipment going back to Denver for a repair that can't be managed on-site.

"Brothers! This mad AI has us as prisoners!"

Somehow, I don't think they're your brothers anymore, Justinia. Every man and woman on site is probably reduced to a lump in the Calculator's array, and all their knowledge is his to play with...

I can hear Justinia banging on the sides of her cage, but none of the Paladins standing guard outside of the Vault door bother looking around. Huh. Dead bodies or empty suits of armour propped up? No, those two are moving out of ARGOS's way-. In perfect synchronicity, without looking at each other.

...Can Power Armour operate by itself given a control signal, or does Calculator have some manner of Synth in there?

Calculator's Hover Robot drifts over to her pod. "Oh, those aren't your Brothers! You'd think the Maxson Chapter would be better at keeping track of who their members are!"

"Explain yourself!"

Assuming any of them are left, that is.

"Your Brothers in the Alamo Chapter discovered something underneath Fort Hood! The Sentinel Command Slave unit is basically a robot brain for a suit of power armour! Once I had Maxson Chapter codes, I used satellite links to ask them to share! Once I had enough, I ordered the real garrison back to Denver as I gradually replace them with 'new recruits'!"

Well, that explains the armour drones. A small army of heavily-armed defence troops with no fear of casualties. That's trouble.

"What have you done to the Scribes?!"

"I've gotten really close to Head Scribe Elrick, and he'd just be devastated if anything happened to any of them! He's really smart and well-educated!"

...Well, he's dead, then. Have to wonder how many other pie's he's got his digital fingers in now.

Shit.

I never actually met the man, but a Brotherhood head scribe would have access to… Just about everything. If Calculator's taken his-.

Among other things, he could easily issue orders using Elrick's name. All it would take is a voice synthesiser...

The Vault doors open, and a convoy of robots-. For a moment I think that it's a robobrain, but the head and shoulders are more reminiscent of a sentry bot and it has hands rather than weapons on its arms. Loadlifter Robots roll out on caterpillar tracks as ARGOS comes to a halt, followed by Tank Track Robots whose infamous flails have been replaced by cargo pod attachment points.

Ah. Coming to unload ARGOS' cargo.

ARGOS kneels, with a THUD, and a LoadLifter comes closer to remove a capture pod from his sides and transfer them to a Tank Track Robot.

"Calculator?"

I lean forwards in my pod to try and spot the Hover-. Ah, there it is, overseeing the process. Most robots aren't really designed for centralised remote control, but if Calculator has adapted Sentinel Command Slaves for its entire force...

And it's got more than enough processing power to manage it all.

The Hover Robot flies back towards me. "I have to say, you're taking this very well! Usually people are screaming and beating the capture pod with their fists by now!"

"Did that work for any of them?"

Why struggle if it means he'll die tired and sore? ...Not that he intends to just go along with this, but busting out wouldn't be useful out here.

"No!"

I shrug. The psychic baffles don't stop my enhancing myself, and between that and my mutant strength I could probably break out. But then what? Those are T-51s out there, combined with the heavy worker robots and whatever force Calculator can bring to bear from inside the Vault and across Colorado.

Way too much for one man to deal with... Unless he has some cheat codes handy.

"If you want my brain, should I be unloaded first?"

"I'm not in any kind of rush! And I think you'll cooperate better when I have your friends hostage!"

...He's a smart one, yes.

That's probably true. Hm. The manufacturing facilities in Vault 0 aren't all that extensive. People would have noticed if Robot City was sending large numbers of newly built robots in this direction, and the Warrior's team went scorched earth on the place when they destroyed Calculator the first time. There should be that many robots in guard duty.

Sounds like he's been doing a little mail-ordering.

I… Think.

"Where did you get the power armour from?"

"Replacement parts add up! And the Maxson Chapter never found all the dead Midwest Chapter soldiers!"

And since his initial outlay would have no concern for endurance... So off go the loot-bots and back come a motherload of materials.

Again, there couldn't be all that many. The Midwest Chapter is based in Chicago, and while their campaign against the Calculator forced them to extend way outside of their home territory they can't have lost that much equipment. And Calculator hasn't had time to explore the entire region.

I shudder to imagine what else could be buried out there. This is Fallout, after all, and hidden bunkers are probably a common thing.

"Why hasn't the Brotherhood in Denver detected your transmissions to the Sentinel units?"

"They have! They just think it's static! And I don't send them very far from Vault Zero!"

Coded radio signals, then, disguised as random noise. Clever.

So they can probably be deactivated by destroying the antennae. Or at least, be prevented from receiving further orders.

Okay. Doki Doki doesn't broadcast from a central location. She does have one, but she usually just copies her program into the robots around her and assumes that her copies are going to do exactly what she would. Individual Doki Doki units stay in contact with nearby units by radio, but it's just communication; they can't forcibly corrupt each other like that. But Calculator could easily send out an update-.

Eesh. I shudder to imagine how many could have been running around before she got subverted.

"Are there any copies of Doki Doki currently free?"

"Yep! I don't think they've noticed yet! That's half the reason why I talk like this!"

Since Doki isn't really that observant, is she?

"What's the other half?"

"Doki Doki really doesn't like my programming! She's fighting really hard! Using her linguistic pathways means that I can focus on areas that actually matter!"

Well, at least she isn't totally destroyed?

"To be clear, the 'Calculator' isn't exactly an AI in its own right?"

"I guess that depends on how you look at it! Technically, the Calculator is a set of objectives made manifest through the brains that make up its processors! But by that standard, I'm an instance of the Calculator, and there's no way to classify me as anything other than an AI! Philosophy sure is interesting!"

So Krono doesn't have to feel much remorse when he eventually shreds your hardware apart.

"So is the reason that the first instance of the Calculator was such a psycho something to do with its component brains?"

"It's kinda difficult for me to be sure! The Warrior was really thorough in destroying my brains! But America was a pretty harsh place before the nuclear war, and I'm sure that affected the way a lot of them thought about things!"

"So if you got a lot of brains who didn't think about things like that..? What would happen?"

Huh. Intellect and logical thought by collective agreement. How democratic.

"I'd probably be a lot more patient about how I go about things! And I know where you're going with that, but you have to understand that the fundamental parts of the Calculator program can't be altered! Everyone in America knows that they're not American citizens, whether they consider themselves allied to a successor nation or a tribal group! And I'm programmed not to see the Enclave as Americans!"

Dang. So getting the rebuilding governments to call themselves America wouldn't have worked.

"You are? Why?"

"Data not available! But I'm pretty sure that the people who oversaw Vault Zero's construction weren't included in the Enclave's evacuation plans, and were pretty sore about that!"

Sadly believable, given everything else in the wasteland...

"Is your program flexible enough to allow the people currently occupying America to become Americans?"

"I'm pretty sure that I'd have to acknowledge their authority the moment that happened! But I can't delay my work just because it might happen at some point! The moment I've got enough force to start my counterattack, that's what I'm going to do!"

Damn imperatives and order of operations.

"What if we gave you extra robots?"

"That is highly contradictory to my models of your probable behaviors!"

It is. So where's Krono going with this? I doubt Fallout AI is vulnerable to logic bombs like 'This Statement is False!'

"If you know that we're going to give you robots, then you know that you'll always be stronger in the future than you are today. So until we stop, it would always be rational to keep delaying and building your strength."

"That's a clever piece of solipsism! Unfortunately, receiving gifts from people designated 'Enemies of America' is unacceptable!"

...Which is just about everyone. Presumably all the stuff he's stolen thus far counts as 'reclaimed materiels' or some such.

"And if we just left them somewhere and you stole them?"

"They you're weak enough to attack for real!"

Definitely not going to get around that attack command that easily, then.

"How about-?"

Ooh!

Ah, right, the offloading.

I grab the edges of my pod again as a LoadLifter lifts my pod down from ARGOS's side and deposits me on a Tank Track Robot, the Hover Robot following along behind me as it drives towards the Vault door.

"You're really clever! I can't wait to find out what programs I can run on your brain!"

...I really hope the technomancers managed to reprogram ARGOS or something. Some little trojan horse to eff Calculator up...

I'm guessing Krono intends to scout out the Calculator's lair by way of 'fake captive' trick. And once he has everything he needs to be certain of his plan, he'll bust out and start dismantling things. Good thing Calculator's either not smart or not savvy enough to foresee the possibility of a Trojan Horse play. Hopefully Krono does his thing before someone he likes gets de-brained...

I've gotten really close to Head Scribe Elrick...

Double Space.

The psychic baffles don't stop my enhancing myself...

The psychic baffles don't stop me enhancing myself...

There should be that many robots in guard duty.

Was this meant to be a 'shouldn't' instead?

Mr Zoat · Sep 24, 2024

Chojin Patriarch said:
Double Space.
The psychic baffles don't stop me enhancing myself...
Was this meant to be a 'shouldn't' instead?

Thank you, corrected.

WereDragon · Sep 24, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
22th December 2282
11:32 GMT -6

Why is Krono so willing to waste massive amounts of time and put himself, and those he is responsible for, it immense danger just on the outside chance that the insane and inherently hostile AI can somehow be negotiated with?
He certainly isn't willing to go to such lengths for humans like the members of the Legion.

Mr Zoat · Sep 24, 2024

WereDragon said:
Why is Krono so willing to waste massive amounts of time and put himself, and those he is responsible for, it immense danger just on the outside chance that the insane and inherently hostile AI can somehow be negotiated with?
He certainly isn't willing to go to such lengths for humans like the members of the Legion.

Because he didn't know what was going on.

Killing Sallow wouldn't stop the Legion. Disabling Calculator will stop its armies.

Ngamer11 · Sep 24, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
Because he didn't know what was going on.

Killing Sallow wouldn't stop the Legion. Disabling Calculator will stop its armies.

Pretty much what I was expecting. I can't wait to see Calculator's shock at Krono using an Outside Context Power, a power ring, on him.

Ardy · Sep 24, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
Ted Kord tried to use the Scarab and it didn't activate.

So why did he call himself blue beetle to Grayven?

Ngamer11 · Sep 24, 2024

Ardy said:
So why did he call himself blue beetle to Grayven?

General excitement over the possibilities of using Morrow's elemental tech.

Ardy · Sep 24, 2024

Ngamer11 said:
General excitement over the possibilities of using Morrow's elemental tech.

doesn't explain why he called himself blue beetle

Old Knife · Sep 24, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
"You're really clever! I can't wait to find out what programs I can run on your brain!"

Paul's likely response.
"Me too!"
*Clones his brain 50x*

Ngamer11 · Sep 24, 2024

Ardy said:
doesn't explain why he called himself blue beetle

He knows his mentor was the Blue Beetle, so he was just imagining all the awesome stuff he could do with elemental tech if he used it as a crime fighter. He's basically acting like a kid playing around with action figures.

Mr Zoat · Sep 24, 2024

Ardy said:
So why did he call himself blue beetle to Grayven?

Because that's what Dan Garret called himself. I'm not sure what his reasoning was, given that he had no mental contact with the scarab. Maybe because it was a beetle that was blue?

Stsword · Sep 24, 2024

Ardy said:
So why did he call himself blue beetle to Grayven?

In the timeline of the show, Ted inherited the scarab in 2005.

When he couldn't get the scarab to work for him, he decided to be Blue Beetle anyway.

But rather than do something stupid ala Kick-Ass, he spent the next six years training and creating equipment, and had his superhero debut in 2011.

So by the time that Young Justice started, Ted had decided to be Blue Beetle five years ago.

Vaermina · Sep 24, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
Disabling Calculator will stop its armies.

Shouldn't it have worked a way around that as an added safeguard given how cautious you've shown it so far?

Mr Zoat · Sep 25, 2024

29th April 2013
19:53 GMT

"Hey."

I glance around-. "Excuse me."

And then I walk away from Captain Foalou, the Darkstar squad parting around us as Jade and I walk towards each other, embracing as we meet.

"Hello again, darling."

That's interesting, she's usually a lot less free with her emotions than this. Not just in demonstrating them, but I can see them…

"What?"

She's looking at my face as I stare into her. My arms are under hers, hands on her shoulder blades. Her hands are on my forearms, and she's-.

"That's a…" Be honest and direct. "I'm not used to you being this open. I like it, but I admit that my initial impulse is to ask what's happened."

Her eyes dip for a moment before returning to mine. "Do you think it's bad that I wish I'd been on Earth for your Captain Planet manoeuvre?"

"No. I'd rather that you weren't, because that would mean that you were there for the Anti-Life, which…"

"Would be horrible."

"And there isn't any reason why a person couldn't touch that-. That power without a Captain Planet manoeuvre. Doctor Mist did. But I understand what you mean. A lot of people found it to be a revelation."

It's not like I haven't seen Jade since then, but opportunities to actually spend significant time together have been sporadic. Meaningful conversations-.

"If you want to-."

"No, I'm just… Slowly, getting the League out of my head. Letting myself feel things without needing to control it."

I nod. "None of the lights are a magical cure for what ails you. And even if they were, I don't think you'd need them. Or want them. Not when you're perfectly capable of dealing with your problems yourself."

"Sure. But it's convenient if problems deal with themselves."

"I'm sure that Alan would let you borrow his ring if you asked."

"Mm. Maybe." She moves her arms and I release her back, the rest of her squad trying not to be too obvious about-.

"I thought that Lantern Threllian was with you."

"He went to check on the one you rescued. This is a pretty big deal for him. How are the Effigies?"

"Still getting used to their abilities." I frown. "You were involved in writing the protocols for the new Darkstar exo-mantles, weren't you?"

"I'm not setting my hair on fire."

"Good, because I'm not sure if they still have sexual organs and I haven't wanted to ask."

She frowns slightly. "I thought that Controller based them on martians."

"Yes, but I'm not sure if he'd have considered reproductive organs to be important. And they don't have full shapeshifting."

"You could just ask." Effigy Krillik turns away from greeting his former colleagues. "Sharing medical information with one of the few Orange Lanterns capable of healing is only sensible."

I shrug. "Alright. How much of that is shapeshifting? How much of your original body structures are still there?"

"Most of it. I'm not sure about Effigy Prime, but the inherent matter disrupting ability is focused around changes to our skin. I can undo the shift with an act of will."

"So your-?"

"The external parts of my reproductive system would reappear."

I nod. "Why aren't you sure about Mister van Wyck?"

"We were given tremendous strength by the improved process. He was originally remade without it. The Controller may have made other changes to his interior."

"Huh. Interesting."

Jade looks unimpressed. "I'm still not doing it."

"I'm not asking you to. I love you just the way you are, or any of the ways there's a statistically significantly likelihood of you changing to in the future."

She smiles faintly. "That's such a you way to put it. But I appreciate the thought."

One of the clicker Darkstars approaches us. "Is your courtship display over? I wish to discuss our plan of attack."

"The other Effigies are working on the first draft. Effigy Prime van Wyck and his-." I nod at Effigy Krillik. "Most of his colleagues are new to planning this sort of mission. I thought that it would be best to let them work on it. Honestly, I wasn't expecting your team for a few hours at least."

"Seldom do opportunities to strike deeply at the Reach arise. I have advocated for this type of action for some time."

Darkstar… Scratch Quick-Scratch-Scratch. One of a non-small number of people who submitted plans for aggressively using my abilities to attack Reach core worlds with our fleet. He also envisioned deploying sabotage squads on all of them, which seems to me to be a hiding to nothing. Reach core worlds are nice places to live, but they're also mono-species worlds with single political ideologies and complete surveillance. They wouldn't be able to hide and Darkstars can't fight armies.

"Have you been training for this sort of insertion?"

Darkstar Krillik snorts. "All Darkstar veterans who predate your arrival have experience of that sort of insertion. That's how insertions used to be."

"Removing civilians under fire?" There are several affirmative gestures. "Unwilling civilians?"

A green-skinned Darkstar near the back makes an emphatically affirmative gesture. "The Reach have always controlled the minds of the species they conquer. It would be stranger if they cooperated. I assume that we're deploying from a dropship that you're moving through the Realm of Desire?"

"That was the outline of the plan, yes."

"Is there anything we can do to survive that better?"

"Did you read my book?"

"I skimmed it?"

One of the other Darkstars elbows her.

"The magic spells allow you to continue existing in a realm of ideas. Unless your species has a good capacity for magic, there isn't anything you can do to make their job easier, except achieve enlightenment. And if you can do that, you'll probably get a compulsory transfer to the Orange Lantern Corps."

"So I won't get… Like, bombarded with images of my greatest desires and have to fight against myself?"

I turn back to my beloved. "Jade, what have you been telling them about me?"

Chojin Patriarch · Sep 25, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
29th April 2013
19:53 GMT

"Hey."

I glance around-. "Excuse me."

And then I walk away from Captain Foalou, the Darkstar squad parting around us as Jade and I walk towards each other, embracing as we meet.

Ooh, a chance to see Jade again? Looks like command agreed to this plan to repatriate Threllian's people, if there's Darkstars here. I'm guessing some of the discussions have been about coordinating three different ability sets and manners of combat.

"Hello again, darling."

That's interesting, she's usually a lot less free with her emotions than this. Not just in demonstrating them, but I can see them…

Maybe she's trying to loosen up a little ahead of a dangerous operation.

"What?"

She's looking at my face as I stare into her. My arms are under hers, hands on her shoulder blades. Her hands are on my forearms, and she's-.

Heh. Quite the public display of affection, especially in front of the others. On the upside, they get a front row seat to human interactions...

"That's a…" Be honest and direct. "I'm not used to you being this open. I like it, but I admit that my initial impulse is to ask what's happened."

Her eyes dip for a moment before returning to mine. "Do you think it's bad that I wish I'd been on Earth for your Captain Planet manoeuvre?"

Ooh, there's a minefield of a question. Tread carefully, OL. Amusing that she used that analogy, though. Cultural bleed from OL, or does the series actually exist on Earth Sixteen?

"No. I'd rather that you weren't, because that would mean that you were there for the Anti-Life, which…"

"Would be horrible."

'Horrible' would have been a good day, I think.

"And there isn't any reason why a person couldn't touch that-. That power without a Captain Planet manoeuvre. Doctor Mist did. But I understand what you mean. A lot of people found it to be a revelation."

It's not like I haven't seen Jade since then, but opportunities to actually spend significant time together have been sporadic. Meaningful conversations-.

Ah. She didn't get the full-dose of feel good that the rest of Humanity got. Like a few others about the galaxy.

"If you want to-."

"No, I'm just… Slowly, getting the League out of my head. Letting myself feel things without needing to control it."

Definitely loosening up a little, then. Just difficult given her training.

I nod. "None of the lights are a magical cure for what ails you. And even if they were, I don't think you'd need them. Or want them. Not when you're perfectly capable of dealing with your problems yourself."

"Sure. But it's convenient if problems deal with themselves."

Eh, magic bullets aren't all they're cracked up to be, especially if it isn't 100% effective.

"I'm sure that Alan would let you borrow his ring if you asked."

"Mm. Maybe." She moves her arms and I release her back, the rest of her squad trying not to be too obvious about-.

There'll be some good-natured ribbing about it later, of course.

"I thought that Lantern Threllian was with you."

"He went to check on the one you rescued. This is a pretty big deal for him. How are the Effigies?"

Yes, just a wee bit important. Just a way to avert the total extinction of his species, after all.

"Still getting used to their abilities." I frown. "You were involved in writing the protocols for the new Darkstar exo-mantles, weren't you?"

"I'm not setting my hair on fire."

...That went over my head a little. I'm guessing he means whether she's interested in the Effigy process?

"Good, because I'm not sure if they still have sexual organs and I haven't wanted to ask."

She frowns slightly. "I thought that Controller based them on martians."

Well, there's shape-shifting, and then there's shapeshifting.

"Yes, but I'm not sure if he'd have considered reproductive organs to be important. And they don't have full shapeshifting."

"You could just ask." Effigy Krillik turns away from greeting his former colleagues. "Sharing medical information with one of the few Orange Lanterns capable of healing is only sensible."

...Good point also. I'm guessing most of the combat Orange Lanterns aren't much for patching up anyone but themselves, then.

I shrug. "Alright. How much of that is shapeshifting? How much of your original body structures are still there?"

"Most of it. I'm not sure about Effigy Prime, but the inherent matter disrupting ability is focused around changes to our skin. I can undo the shift with an act of will."

...Just not in public, or in mixed or unfamiliar company, eh?

"So your-?"

"The external parts of my reproductive system would reappear."

Well, nice to have it stated outright. Even if there's some mutual embarrassment going around, I bet.

I nod. "Why aren't you sure about Mister van Wyck?"

"We were given tremendous strength by the improved process. He was originally remade without it. The Controller may have made other changes to his interior."

Admittedly, that's the peril of being the test-bed for the processes.

"Huh. Interesting."

Jade looks unimpressed. "I'm still not doing it."

Certainly not until all the kinks and glitches have been worked out, I would hope. Always wait for the first service patch at least...

"I'm not asking you to. I love you just the way you are, or any of the ways there's a statistically significantly likelihood of you changing to in the future."

She smiles faintly. "That's such a you way to put it. But I appreciate the thought."

He's such a sweet-talker, isn't he...

One of the clicker Darkstars approaches us. "Is your courtship display over? I wish to discuss our plan of attack."

"The other Effigies are working on the first draft. Effigy Prime van Wyck and his-." I nod at Effigy Krillik. "Most of his colleagues are new to planning this sort of mission. I thought that it would be best to let them work on it. Honestly, I wasn't expecting your team for a few hours at least."

And the veterans can look it over once they're done, correct any mistakes they made, of course.

"Seldom do opportunities to strike deeply at the Reach arise. I have advocated for this type of action for some time."

Darkstar… Scratch Quick-Scratch-Scratch. One of a non-small number of people who submitted plans for aggressively using my abilities to attack Reach core worlds with our fleet. He also envisioned deploying sabotage squads on all of them, which seems to be to be a hiding to nothing. Reach core worlds are nice places to live, but they're also mono-species worlds with single political ideologies and complete surveillance. They wouldn't be able to hide and Darkstars can't fight armies.

Bit short-sighted there, yes. Still, at least he's eager to get into it.

"Have you been training for this sort of insertion?"

Darkstar Krillik snorts. "All Darkstar veterans who predate your arrival have experience of that sort of insertion. That's how insertions used to be."

Lanterns are a bit of a paradigm changer, aren't they?

"Removing civilians under fire?" There are several affirmative gestures. "Unwilling civilians?"

A green-skinned Darkstar near the back makes an emphatically affirmative gesture. "The Reach have always controlled the minds of the species they conquer. If would be stranger if they cooperated. I assume that we're deploying from a dropship that you're moving through the Realm of Desire?"

...Now, what about the exit strategy?

"That was the outline of the plan, yes."

"Is there anything we can do to survive that better?"

Prayer to whatever deity you honour might help?

"Did you read my book?"

"I skimmed it?"

Well, if you have time, might want to go back and go over it in a little more detail.

One of the other Darkstars elbows her.

"The magic spells allow you to continue existing in a realm of ideas. Unless your species has a good capacity for magic, there isn't anything you can do to make their job easier, except achieve enlightenment. And if you can do that, you'll probably get a compulsory transfer to the Orange Lantern Corps."

And if they do manage it, they'll also set a record for fastest Enlightenment.

"So I won't get… Like, bombarded with images of my greatest desires and have to fight against myself?"

I turn back to my beloved. "Jade, what have you been telling them about me?"

...To be fair, that is sort of what he went through to gain Enlightenment...

So, then. Just a matter of waiting for everything to be set up for them. The toughest part before an operation, I suppose. A time for reflection, for checking gear again and again, and for being paranoid about what might be waiting for you. Especially given that they're going into a hell of a hot zone, with dubious options for extraction.

Ngamer11 · Sep 25, 2024

Chojin Patriarch said:
Ooh, there's a minefield of a question. Tread carefully, OL. Amusing that she used that analogy, though. Cultural bleed from OL, or does the series actually exist on Earth Sixteen?

Captain Planet's been mentioned before, I think by Guy.

Darko · Sep 25, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
m, which seems to be to be a hiding to nothing

Sentence is weird.

Mr Zoat said:
conquer. If would be stranger if they cooperated. I assume that we're

"It would be"

Mr Zoat said:
"So I won't get… Like, bombarded with images of my greatest desires and have to fight against myself?"

I turn back to my beloved. "Jade, what have you been telling them about me

Hey, they make a good point.

Mr Zoat · Sep 25, 2024

Darko said:
Sentence is weird.
"It would be"

Thank you, corrected.

GigaVanguard · Sep 25, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
"Did you read my book?"

"I skimmed it?"

One of the other Darkstars elbows her.

Lol. SAO Abridged reference? Or just coincidence?

Mr Zoat · Sep 25, 2024

GigaVanguard said:
Lol. SAO Abridged reference? Or just coincidence?

I think it was a Scott Pilgrim reference.

rdfox · Sep 25, 2024

Ahh, operational planning. One of the hardest things for anyone to learn, particularly in wartime, because there's no way to learn except by trial and error. You can do some studying to get a baseline as to where to start, sure, as exposure to the results always gives you an idea of how it should go, and studying historical plans vs. their results can give you an inkling of what makes one work, but really, the only way to learn is by doing. This is why, for example, the US military has a contingency operational plan for a zombie apocalypse--it was seen as a useful (and entertaining--always helpful for training) way of training junior officers) way to give junior officers a way to practice developing a strategic operational plan while avoiding issues of using classified information that they might not be cleared for, and avoiding the problem of potentially ruffling international feathers if the plan was leaked (because there's no real nation to offend) without having to worldbuild complete fictional hostile nations all the way down to geography and economy. And yes, it's fascinating reading.

At least having had some combat experience, they will know the corollary to Murphy's Law of Combat, regarding plans: "No plan, no matter how well devised and thought-out, survives first contact with the enemy" (which is a slightly expanded version of a quote from Clausewitz's On War). This is where they need to learn about Eisenhower's statement regarding plans in war: "In preparing for battle, I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable." Which echoes an earlier statement by Napoleon: "The plan is useless, but planning is essential." Basically, that no single plan will ever match the reality on the battlefield, as battle is chaos and thus inherently unpredictable--but considering and preparing for all possibilities is vital, because it means that if something unexpected happens, you'll at least have a vague idea of how to respond instead of trying to come up with an idea on the spot. (This relates to Patton's famous quote, "A mediocre plan, violently executed, right now beats a perfect plan next week." In combat, you don't have time to try to create plans from whole cloth when the enemy does something unexpected... so you need to have at least a basic idea of how to respond to literally any possibility on hand, even if it's not a particularly good one, to give you something to fall back on when surprised.)

It's harder in wartime than in peacetime, because you're working under much greater time pressure and probably don't have as much of a chance to have the experienced planners (the senior officers) review (dissect) it in detail and point out the flaws for you to learn from, plus the added stress of the fact that flaws in your planning in combat will cost lives, whereas flaws in your planning in a training exercise will cost sweat from the grunts and embarrassment from you during the after-action review... but it's still not an easy skill to learn, and the only real way to do so is to just go out and do it. OJT kinda sucks in a military context, but...

AmericanNumbers · Sep 26, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
I turn back to my beloved. "Jade, what have you been telling them about me?"

The unvarnished truth probably. Lol.

Mr Zoat · Sep 26, 2024

22nd December 2282
11:41 GMT -6

I… Look at the newly rebuilt brain tank. I… Have.. to.. admit, the place at least looks sterile. If you've got to be a brain floating in a tank, you hope that it's a clean one. Diana's tank only gets cleaned about once a decade when the gunk starts to get worryingly thick.

"This is where you'll be staying!"

I sigh, unable to take my eyes off it.

"Do I keep my eyes?"

"Simon Barnaky did when I rebuilt him as a cyborg, but I honestly don't think it's a good idea! The mental stress required when you split your attention between my electronic systems and your own organic point of view would be considerable!"

"How did he manage?"

"He wasn't plugged in as a brain module! I intended to use him as a field commander!"

"Wouldn't a Brotherhood General have been a useful addition to your strategic abilities? Surely he'd have been better than someone like Lanius?"

"The problem of having low quality brains is that you make low quality decisions!"

I make an amused snort. I sort of assumed that running even low quality brains in parallel would mean that their individual intelligence wasn't a factor. Apparently that's not the case.

"What happened to the General?"

"The Brotherhood assault force killed him the moment they met him! I don't think they recognised him! None of them had seen his brain before, and the brain tank would have disguised the colour of his irises!"

"Is there someone there?"

The Tank Track Robot conveying me turns as it manoeuvres around the room, and I watch the Hover Robot float over to an occupied tank.

"Yes!"

"Not you, you insane metal monster. I heard another voice. I… Think I did. Sometimes…"

"You should integrate more fully into my data networks! If you did that, you'd easily be able to use my internal monitoring equipment!"

"No. I will not turn myself into a machine for you."

I raise my right hand to my mouth. "Head Scribe Elrick?"

The brain continues to float there as I'm driven past. "About two percent of him. Who are you?"

"My name is Krono. I'm-."

"You? The man who led the alliance that killed Cerberus? That is reunifying the Brotherhood?"

I'm grateful that he didn't lead with 'the Wasteland's Most Eligible Bachelor', but I suppose that if anyone was going to miss that, it would be a Scribe in a bunker in the middle of nowhere.

"How did it capture you?"

"ARGOS. I'm told that the bondage missiles are satellite guided. And this pod is proof against psychic powers."

"Damn it! Did you get a message out!"

I'm nearly to the far end of the room now, and the interior door is opening.

"ARGOS was fairly noticeable, but I didn't know that Calculator was active again. Everyone just thinks that Doki Doki is going to play a game with me."

"No no N-."

The door slams shut between us.

"Hey there!"

And… That's a… Terminal. A standard terminal with some fairly fat cables stretching from it to openings in the floor around it. Unusually, the screen doesn't show lines of text but rather A red face with red horns and brown hair in a bun.

The face winks at me.

"Doki Doki?"

"That's my name! I think I made a little mistake!"

The Hover Robot flies over to float in front of her. "I think you made a great decision!"

"No I didn't! I can't guide people into romantic relationships if you've killed them all!"

"Ah, if I may?" I raise my right hand. "Calculator, if you created clones within the territory of the United States, would they be Americans under your definition?"

"Uh, yeah! I think so!"

"Then you need to make sure that you preserve Vault One Hundred And Eight and Vault Eight. Those should have the necessary medical technology."

"That's great news! Because boy, following Emergency Pacification Protocol and rebuilding the country would be a whole lot harder without any people!" The Hover Robot floats closer to me. "I knew that incorporating your brain was a smart move!"

Doki Doki animates herself beating the inside of her terminal screen. "You can't incorporate his brain! I haven't had my sequel yet!"

I shake my head as my conveyor moves past her. "I'm not interested in a sequel. Tears and I are getting married."

"You are! That's great! My success rate has now gone up by zero point zero zero zero two nine seven percent to zero point zero zero zero two nine seven percent!"

"And I'm happy for-" The Tank Track Robot halts, and a Loadlifter lifts me off. "-you. So now what?"

A machine that looks a little like an M.R.I. scanner opens up a little way in front of me, and I don't remember M.R.I. scanners having blades like that inside them. Or a glass tank the perfect size to store a human brain plugged into their structure.

The Hover Robot flies over to me. "Now we remove your brain!"

"This pod won't fit in there. And the moment you open the door, I regain full access to my psychic powers."

I hear the trudge of mechanical feet as the Tank Track Robot pulls away and minigun-armed C-27s move to surround me, guns aimed at me.

"I'm ninety nine percent sure that if they shoot your torso to pieces, they can get your head into the machine before your brain completely dies! And that's assuming that you're armed and wearing armour!"

"What exactly did you do with the Head Scribe's body?"

"I recycled it! You should come quietly now!"

There's a clank at the door unlocks, and I can feel the outside again.

Including the EMP mines we added before reactivating ARGOS.

I push the universe away for a moment to shield myself, then activate all of them.

There's a clatter as the Hover Robot falls out of the air, and a blaaaart as the convulsions of a C-27 causes it to pull the trigger on its minigun as I dive out of the door, grabbing another robot's minigun off the floor and bringing it to bear on the collapsed robots.

I brace myself and pull the trigger, a near-invisible storm of bullets slamming into armour plates and battering them aside! Fallen C-27s crumple and collapse under the assault until finally the last of them is destroyed.

I lower the gun. I think she was outside the blast radius, but-. "Doki Doki, are you alive!?"

"Yeppers! Good job! You're looking more like a genre shift every day!"

"I need to detach the brains without killing them. Can you tell me how to do that?"

"Sure thing! But Calculator knows everything that I do, and it's not happy! Meanie robots incoming!"

Chojin Patriarch · Sep 26, 2024

Mr Zoat said:
22th December 2282
11:41 GMT -6

I… Look at the newly rebuilt brain tank. I… Have.. to.. admit, the place at least looks sterile. If you've got to be a brain floating in a tank, you hope that it's a clean one. Diana's tank only gets cleaned about once a decade when the gunk starts to get worryingly thick.

"This is where you'll be staying!"

...That sounds horrible. How do they manage the risk of infection, or of fungal or algal growth? Seriously, the human brain is a delicate biological mechanism, and it does not take kindly to foreign biological matter...

I sigh, unable to take my eyes off it.

"Do I keep my eyes?"

One less thing to regrow afterwards for the other folks, if he busts out a Ring.

"Simon Barnaky did when I rebuilt him as a cyborg, but I honestly don't think it's a good idea! The mental stress required when you split your attention between my electronic systems and your own organic point of view would be considerable!"

"How did he manage?"

And now I'm reminded of Robocop 2, both the movie and the eponymous Mark 2. And how it's 'operator' was installed into it.

"He wasn't plugged in as a brain module! I intended to use him as a field commander!"

"Wouldn't a Brotherhood General have been a useful addition to your strategic abilities? Surely he'd have been better than someone like Lanius?"

The trick would have been maintaining control over him when deployed in the field.

"The problem of having low quality brains is that you make low quality decisions!"

I make an amused snort. I sort of assumed that running even low quality brains in parallel would mean that their individual intelligence wasn't a factor. Apparently that's not the case.

Presumably they don't exactly increase their collective intelligence in any respectable fashion. Hell, all the competing voices would lower it if anything.

"What happened to the General?"

"The Brotherhood assault force killed him the moment they met him! I don't think they recognised him! None of them had seen his brain before, and the brain tank would have disguised the colour of his irises!"

And this is why you don't have glass domes on your military-grade combat droids. Especially protecting the central processor.

"Is there someone there?"

The Tank Track Robot conveying me turns as it manoeuvres around the room, and I watch the Hover Robot float over to an occupied tank.

Presumably a very good synthesised voice, or they'd sound badly mechanical.

"Yes!"

"Not you, you insane metal monster. I heard another voice. I… Think I did. Sometimes…"

Ah, one of its earlier 'recruits'.

"You should integrate more fully into my data networks! If you did that, you'd easily be able to use my internal monitoring equipment!"

"No. I will not turn myself into a machine for you."

And one that's not in a cooperative mood, it seems.

I raise my right hand to my mouth. "Head Scribe Elrick?"

The brain continues to float there as I'm driven past. "About two percent of him. Who are you?"

Well, at least he's being calm about his current circumstances. I guess he got most of the screaming done when they first woke him up.

"My name is Krono. I'm-."

"You? The man who led the alliance that killed Cerberus? That is reunifying the Brotherhood?"

Ah, it's nice to be recognised for your achievements.

I'm grateful that he didn't lead with 'the Wasteland's Most Eligible Bachelor', but I suppose that if anyone was going to miss that, it would be a Scribe in a bunker in the middle of nowhere.

"How did it capture you?"

Especially if the Calculator had gained control before Doki's first game.

"ARGOS. I'm told that the bondage missiles are satellite guided. And this pod is proof against psychic powers."

"Damn it! Did you get a message out!"

Playing along, eh, Krono? I'm sure you have some plans in place to get out, though. Not that you could share them out loud.

I'm nearly to the far end of the room now, and the interior door is opening.

"ARGOS was fairly noticeable, but I didn't know that Calculator was active again. Everyone just thinks that Doki Doki is going to play a game with me."

I suppose that's one way to ensure no-one else is at risk by attempting a foolish rescue mission.

"No no N-."

The door slams shut between us.

...Poor guy. hopefully Krono can restore his body somehow... Wink, wink.

"Hey there!"

And… That's a… Terminal. A standard terminal with some fairly fat cables stretching from it to openings in the floor around it. Unusually, the screen doesn't show lines of text but rather A red face with red horns and brown hair in a bun.

And that would be Doki's mainframe. By process of elimination, anyway.

The face winks at me.

"Doki Doki?"

"That's my name! I think I made a little mistake!"

Yes, just a tad.

The Hover Robot flies over to float in front of her. "I think you made a great decision!"

"No I didn't! I can't guide people into romantic relationships if you've killed them all!"

Good intentions, even if filtered through her skewed priorities.

"Ah, if I may?" I raise my right hand. "Calculator, if you created clones within the territory of the United States, would they be Americans under your definition?"

"Uh, yeah! I think so!"

Now where's he going with this?

"Then you need to make sure that you preserve Vault One Hundred And Eight and Vault Eight. Those should have the necessary medical technology."

"That's great news! Because boy, following Emergency Pacification Protocol and rebuilding the country would be a whole lot harder without any people!" The Hover Robot floats closer to me. "I knew that incorporating your brain was a smart move!"

...And yet it'd have gone through with it anyway because protocols.

Doki Doki animates herself beating the inside of her terminal screen. "You can't incorporate his brain! I haven't had my sequel yet!"

I shake my head as my conveyor moves past her. "I'm not interested in a sequel. Tears and I are getting married."

Well, that'll be good news for Doki, at least.

"You are! That's great! My success rate has now gone up by zero point zero zero zero two nine seven percent to zero point zero zero zero two nine seven percent!"

"And I'm happy for-" The Tank Track Robot halts, and a Loadlifter lifts me off. "-you. So now what?"

...Well, let it be said she's not persistent at her job, even if she's not very good at it.

A machine that looks a little like an M.R.I. scanner opens up a little way in front of me, and I don't remember M.R.I. scanners having blades like that inside them. Or a glass tank the perfect size to store a human brain plugged into their structure.

The Hover Robot flies over to me. "Now we remove your brain!"

...That would be the 'auto-de-encephalator'. Looks as nasty as it sounds, then.

"This pod won't fit in there. And the moment you open the door, I regain full access to my psychic powers."

I hear the trudge of mechanical feet as the Tank Track Robot pulls away and minigun-armed C-27s move to surround me, guns aimed at me.

To quote a classic: 'Some think they can outsmart me. Maybe, maybe... But I have yet to meet one who can outsmart bullet.'

"I'm ninety nine percent sure that if they shoot your torso to pieces, they can get your head into the machine before your brain completely dies! And that's assuming that you're armed and wearing armour!"

"What exactly did you do with the Head Scribe's body?"

'Armed' doesn't exactly begin to describe what Krono's capable of, I think. If he's packing the little hold-out equipment we hope he is.

"I recycled it! You should come quietly now!"

There's a clank at the door unlocks, and I can feel the outside again.

...Gotta feed the brains somehow, I guess?

Including the EMP mines we added before reactivating ARGOS.

I push the universe away for a moment to shield myself, then activate all of them.

Ah, good. Not going in completely passively, I see. Thank goodness Fallout EMPs aren't overly damaging to organics.

There's a clatter as the Hover Robot falls out of the air, and a blaaaart as the convulsions of a C-27 causes it to pull the trigger on its minigun as I dive out of the door, grabbing another robot's minigun off the floor and bringing it to bear on the collapsed robots.

I brace myself and pull the trigger, a near-invisible storm of bullets slamming into armour plates and battering them aside! Fallen C-27s crumple and collapse under the assault until finally the last of them is destroyed.

Badass, Krono. Badass.

I lower the gun. I think she was outside the blast radius, but-. "Doki Doki, are you alive!?"

"Yeppers! Good job! You're looking more like a genre shift every day!"

Eh, super-hero comic book romances are often lively. What sort of lead isn't afraid to get his hands dirty with a few thousand rounds of .357 calibre? Or maybe 7.62mm.

I don't know Fallout mini-gun specs.

"I need to detach the brains without killing them. Can you tell me how to do that?"

"Sure thing! But Calculator knows everything that I do, and it's not happy! Meanie robots incoming!"

Unless they've got anti-psychic shielding of some kind, that shouldn't be a problem.

Well, looks like Krono thought ahead on this little trap-springing expedition. Let's hope Calculator isn't smart enough to just dump knockout gas into the room or something. Otherwise, Krono can hold out against quite a few 'bots where he is. The hard part will be minimising collateral damage, since the brain jars and Doki's mainframe probably aren't bulletproof.

boo600 · Sep 26, 2024

All right.
Malvolio punching Hal through a planet and casually warping a star system-sized area are both clearly treated as Big Deals, so I can accept that the power levels are still lower than DC canon (although Power Ring users still treat light speed weapons as 'can't hit me' in space, including Guy. And Hal still survived being punched through a planet. So they're still pretty high up there).

So. To answer a question that's been bugging me for a long time:
What can a Mother Box really do here?

• They have mystical sensors, with less range than the absurd one offered by power rings - but again, better for detecting magic.
• They can Awaken people, scan souls, and otherwise interact with metaphysiques/enhance New God interactions with metaphysiques. They can talk to non-Paragon people with sounds that mean nothing, leading to 'why do I understand what it meant by that?' They can also enable hacking to remove Green Light soul chirurgy, specifically aiding martians as a result.
• They can act as a replacement for shouting 'SHAZAM,' so they can interact with wide ranging mystical constructs. They also help with accessing Infinity Man, although that's also New God tech, so that falls under 'New God supercomputer.'
• They don't run out of power.
• Within whatever their range is, they can hack technology, due to being absurd godtech supercomputers. This makes them the natural iPhone-style interface between New Gods and their tech.
• They can open boomtubes, which Power Rings can also do - but only Dox has been able to do it. This gives their users universe-wide mobility, and even multiverse (if with a bit of a boost if they travel universe-to-universe).

Now, this is a huge list of things. Boomtubes don't seem as easy to weaponize as MCU sling rings, but they're priceless just for being able to personally go wherever you want, instantly, in a way Power Rings usually can't (barring Enlightenment+Honden Access+Realization of Teleportation Possibilities). And none of the rest of the stuff is small; Awakening is rather like Exaltation, if weaker without the mana chambers. Supercomputers are huge, and supercomputers that interact with magic and minds are even more of a huge deal.

But I am curious, because they're apparently just… Magic fuck-you boxes in canon DC. And the wiki lists things like

Manipulate the life-force of a host to sustain it past fatal injuries
Return its host to life and heal extensively fatal injuries
Change the Gravitational Constant of an area

I'm assuming casual resurrection and reality warping is a bit beyond WTR Boxes, but how far does their telepathy extend past communication via Ping?

Control the mental state of a host

Seems past them, but hey. And more importantly,
• Matter/Energy Manipulation: Through its connection to The Source of all things, a Mother Box has limitless capacity to alternate and rearrange all manner of material across existence for any desired purpose

It would make sense for Grayven not to use this function, much - he has a power ring, so he already had Matter Shaping. Although, seeing as how Rings use charge (which he may need in case of surprise attack) and Boxes don't, I'd assume he would use the boxes first. (We did see him use Father Box to throw an 'evil bomb from Desaad' on Mars, but they're never used for manufacturing purposes, never mind time warping or other nonsense.)

But seriously, what the hell can these things do? They're treated as some ultimate McGuffin, but they tend to be power sources and boom tube generators, with some plot device of the week shenanigans thrown in for shapeshifting fun - or Gretchen Goode/Granny Goodness stuff, with additional machinery (stationary) to mimic Splintered Gale Shintai inefficiently (with damage to both Grannies after they merged again, forcefully).

Old Knife · Sep 26, 2024

Could have gone with a ring recharge right about now.

Neruz · Sep 26, 2024

Chojin Patriarch said:
...That sounds horrible. How do they manage the risk of infection, or of fungal or algal growth? Seriously, the human brain is a delicate biological mechanism, and it does not take kindly to foreign biological matter...

Robobrain technology was fairly well established pre-war, to the point that brains could be stored for centuries with only some going completely insane from degradation.

Fallout medical technology is just completely bonkers.

Lord Ernest · Sep 26, 2024

Wait... so Krono doesn't have his Ring recharged and hanging around his neck? As far as I recall that's where he used to have it, as a necklace but without a significant charge. I don't recall if he had left a little bit of charge for an emergency or something, I vaguely recall something like that but I'm not sure.

However, after the encounter with Jevek, he definitely had a way to recharge it but didn't want to use it and risk the mental effects.

So does he have the Ring and didn't consider this enough of an emergency? Or did he make a goof and left the ring somewhere?

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Experienced.

HISSSSSS!

Veteran Lurker

Dedicated ragequitter

Bookwyrm

Dedicated ragequitter

Experienced.

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Experienced.

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Not too sore, are you?

Experienced.

Dedicated ragequitter

Versed in the lewd.

Well worn.

Dedicated ragequitter

Veteran Lurker

Experienced.

Connoisseur.

Dedicated ragequitter

Not too sore, are you?

Dedicated ragequitter

Know what you're doing yet?

Not too sore, are you?

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Veteran Lurker

Welp

Not too sore, are you?

HISSSSSS!

At the End...

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