With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Mr Zoat]

I have no idea what's happening with them so I'm just going to assume they're bankrupt

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You..? Really?

In that case, welcome to the internet. They were bough by Disney, and for reasons I can't talk about on this website for another 12 years or so, profits have not been good.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

General reminder that you ceded authority on this matter to Arisia and the Green Lantern Corps.

Which means you flying off like a petulant child means they should automatically rule against you because that's how law works when one side runs away.

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According to WHICH law, exactly? Because the Green Lantern Corps has virtually no authority over the Orange Lanterns, while Earth and Daxam laws don't affect each other either.

In fact, if we use the Daxamites' own logic and apply to this situation, Earth would be within its rights to shoot down and exterminate any Daxamite that comes near it. Not so fun to have a "shoot all aliens on sight" policy when you're the alien in this situation, isn't it?

 

[Sordid Snake]

Looks like Arisia might be upgrading Daxam from 'place we leave to its own devices' to 'place we actively quarantine'.

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I don't think it would take much to make the Daxamites run amuck: Something that makes enough of them start to think that as long as non-Daxamites exist, in the long run they will pollute Daxam with their non-Daxamite-ness. Only in a universe where no aliens exist will the Daxamites be totally safe, and they might think that they can make it so.

I will also point out that suspected child kidnapping and rumours about suspected child kidnapping is a pretty common triggering factor for modern lynch mobs.

 

[RoninSword]

@Mr Zoat so is this bolded bit

I chuck the slab of crystal through the boom tube, fire another burst of energy at my pursuers and then step through after it.

"Okay, so it turns out that the Daxamite elders are total hypocrites."

Karsta picks up the chirurgeon engine and attaches it to Kara's pod as the tube shuts down.

"Imagine my surprise."

"Yeah, they're fine using advanced technology to prop up their control. They had sunstones!"

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just Grayven viewing them in a negative light? Your more recent comments imply the Daxamites just use the advanced technology in what they view as emergencies.

 

[Mr Zoat]

@Mr Zoat so is this bolded bit

just Grayven viewing them in a negative light?

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Yes. Plus, they just tried using it on him so he's not feeling charitable.

 

[Mr Zoat]

26th July 2013
18:06 GMT

"Oh, hey." Mr. J'aarkn waves as Roy and I walk over to the… Café? Where he's eating. Surrounding Martians take the opportunity to gawp at us as they realise that we're not anthrophiles but are in fact actual humans. "Sit down, sit down! What brings you here?"

I take a look around as we sit. Making the surface of Mars habitable is an ongoing project, but this settlement is half conservation workers and half tourists. Around the outskirts Martian plants and the safer animals mix with the ground level of the great telekinetic pillars which Lantern Mother of Mercy created. Despite what hard science fiction enthusiasts think, space elevators usually don't take off-

Boom boom.

-because by the time there's an actual need for them a civilisation has usually developed exotic energy generators which make thrusting out of a gravity well on a decentralised basis far simpler, or anti-gravity technology which renders it superfluous. But on the few worlds which use them -usually due to a species-wide aversion to flight or a really manic drive towards early space travel- this is how they look; a huge structure on the ground and then a continuation you can faintly see through the blue of the sky.

Trying to follow it by eye from the ground to the barely visible top is a good way to fall over.

"An opportunity. How would you like to travel to a world no Martian has ever visited?"

"No martian's ever been to Mercury, but I don't think that would be good for my skin. Oh, and I finished those application forms… And if I'd known you were coming I'd have brought them with me."

"Neat. Do me this favour and we'll fly you to Earth afterwards."

He looks puzzled. "How come I'm jumping the queue?"

"You're not. But not everywhere has the same immigration restrictions. I can't legally take you to the United States but I can take you to my place in Bir Tawil-"

"Feeling-" He assumes Jade's appearance while maintaining his suggestive expression. "-lonely?"

"-and-. Not that lonely. Remember-" I tap the side of my head. **-that physical transformation isn't enough for me any more than it would be for another martian.**

"You could always pretend."

I shake my head. "I can't. I can't turn it off. You'd have to match her desires perfectly, and even then I'd be able to tell because the.. depth is wrong."

Roy shoves me in the shoulder. "And you wouldn't cheat on Jade."

"Yes, as I said, because-." Ah. "Yes, of course I wouldn't cheat on Jade. This was just-. If he wanted to make me think I wasn't."

Roy shakes his head, an action which the helmet just about relates to the exterior world. "Paul's got a problem with a child custody case, and we want a telepath to investigate."

J'aarkn stares at him, then turns his head to take in the rest of the area, and the hundreds of telepaths walking or floating around. "O-kay? What's so special about me?" He cups himself in a decidedly non-Jade way. "Other than the obvious."

Roy shrugs and turns to me.

"Religion."

J'aarkn blinks, shifting back to his default humanish form. "Huh?"

"While my empathy lets me perceive all emotions, as an Orange Lantern and Host of the Ophidian I'm drawn to avarice first. I want this, you want something I can help you with. Our desires work together to achieve things which advance both our positions. Thus, that is the thing to do. Yes, I could find a way to hire a random Martian…"

I look around at the dozen or so who are showing an unusual degree of interest in us. Two raise their hands.

"Or just ask them to do it for the privilege of my company, my dedication to the orange light means that I regard this as more.. elegant."

"Remind me where Bir Tawil is again?"

"North east Africa. Just south of Greater Kahndaq. I'm told that the value of the real estate actually gone up since Isis replanted the region."

He grins. "Hey, beachfront property."

"Land's the only thing they're not making more of."

"Alright, so what's the case?"

Roy points at me. "He kidnapped a boy, and his mother wants him back."

"Ah… Huh?"

"I prefer to think of it as emancipation. He could have gone back to Daxam at any time. He chose not to."

"Oh-kayyyy..?" J'aarkn looks decidedly uncomfortable. "How old are we talking?"

"Early teens-. Human-equivalent early teens."

"I'm… I mean, I… So… What would I be doing on Daxam?"

"Firstly, finding out what would happen to him if he went back. Secondly, finding out how they knew where Earth is and that he's here."

"Heh, look, I think M'gann M'orzz has given you unreasonable expectations about what a martian can do."

"You'll need to scan the boy's father and a couple of people in their police. They're isolationists, and they've never encountered a telepath before so even if they have learned the kryptonian theta waves state, they can't have practiced with it."

"Kryp-? Like Superman?"

"Daxam's sun is red. No powers. They probably have technology that can detect telepathy, but they're primitivist isolationists. Their advanced technology is kept in isolated vaults for situations where they know that they need it. If you get spotted then you should have plenty of time to leave."

"Okay." He frowns as he considers the offer. "So this is some kind of messy custody thing, right?"

"Essentially, yes. Except there's no judge and everyone has high-end superpowers."

"And-. Alright, checking the kid would be okay if he went back? I can do that. And I get the universe is a real big place… But…"

"Yes?"

"I… Think I should check up on the kid, too. Like… I know how these things go, and wanna square it with my con-."

"That's fine, but I'd appreciate it if you'd visit Daxam first. Negotiations continue in nine hours or so, and I'd like the information by then. Sodam Yat is currently in Bir Tawil, so you can see him when I drop you off."

"Okay." He nods, looking a good deal happier. "And can you get me Simon's current number? I should give him a call."

"It turned out that Simon Leas was an Apokoliptian infiltrator and he's currently sitting in a sciencell on Oa."

He stares. "'Apokoliptian', like… Oh. I had.. no idea."

"I know, but the police are probably going to want to interview you anyway. I can get you Sally Sonic's current number-."

"No, no, I'm good." He gets up, picking up his sandwich-equivalent as he does so. "Where's your ship?"

 

[CrazyNoVa]

That's right, J'aarkn never knew about Simon, didn't he? It might be the first time in his life that he's ever felt bad about all the porno he's helped make, especially if it helped an evil porn god grow stronger.

 

[crazygrox]

it would still be up to him how much time he spent on the planet

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Huh.
It occurs to me that lantern Yat can probably call his ring at a distance. I'm not sure it's possible to get him to stay on daxam if he wants to be elsewhere.
Not without convincing the controllers to keep his ring locked down.

 

[Vaermina]

According to WHICH law, exactly? Because the Green Lantern Corps has virtually no authority over the Orange Lanterns, while Earth and Daxam laws don't affect each other either.

In fact, if we use the Daxamites' own logic and apply to this situation, Earth would be within its rights to shoot down and exterminate any Daxamite that comes near it. Not so fun to have a "shoot all aliens on sight" policy when you're the alien in this situation, isn't it?

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According to law of Orange Lantern ceded authority to them thinking they would naturally agree with this point of view only to get pissy when they didn't.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

26th July 2013
18:06 GMT

"Oh, hey." Mr. J'aarkn waves as Roy and I walk over to the… Café? Where he's eating. Surrounding Martians take the opportunity to gawp at us as they realise that we're not anthrophiles but are in fact actual humans. "Sit down, sit down! What brings you here?"

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...Huh, that's probably the easiest way to investigate Daxam without a visit from the Justice League. Invisibility, telepathy and better-than-unpowered-daxamite powers in case he gets noticed. Presumably it's easier to get his xenoculturalist acquaintance than some random Martian.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

I take a look around as we sit. Making the surface of Mars habitable is an ongoing project, but this settlement is half conservation workers and half tourists. Around the outskirts Martian plants and the safer animals mix with the ground level of the great telekinetic pillars which Lantern Mother of Mercy created. Despite what hard science fiction enthusiasts think, space elevators usually don't take off-

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Ah, folks seeing the sky for the first time in their lives, eh?

Boom boom.

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Boom Boom indeed.

-because by the time there's an actual need for them a civilisation has usually developed exotic energy generators which make thrusting out of a gravity well on a decentralised basis far simpler, or anti-gravity technology which renders it superfluous. But on the few worlds which use them -usually due to a species-wide aversion to flight or a really manic drive towards early space travel- this is how they look; a huge structure on the ground and then a continuation you can faintly see through the blue of the sky.

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And the kind of material sciences involved would also make them available to the more advanced cultures. Seriously, the forces involved in a tether-type like that are cataclysmic if something comes loose...

Trying to follow it by eye from the ground to the barely visible top is a good way to fall over.

"An opportunity. How would you like to travel to a world no Martian has ever visited?"

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So, basically boldly going... And perhaps boldly coming.

"No martian's ever been to Mercury, but I don't think that would be good for my skin. Oh, and I finished those application forms… And if I'd known you were coming I'd have brought them with me."

"Neat. Do me this favour and we'll fly you to Earth afterwards."

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To be fair, it's hard to know when OL is ever going to turn up, sometimes. Even if he makes an appointment, things can go awry.

He looks puzzled. "How come I'm jumping the queue?"

"You're not. But not everywhere has the same immigration restrictions. I can't legally take you to the United States but I can take you to my place in Bir Tawil-"

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Which is probably a pleasant enough place for a martian.

"Feeling-" He assumes Jade appearance while maintaining his suggestive expression. "-lonely?"

"-and-. Not that lonely. Remember-" I tap the side of my head. **-that physical transformation isn't enough for me any more than it would be for another martian.**

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Looks aren't everything, Johnnie.

"You could always pretend."

I shake my head. "I can't. I can't turn it off. You'd have to match her desires perfectly, and even then I'd be able to tell because the.. depth is wrong."

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At least she can be sure he'd never cheat on her without some serious manipulations.

Roy shoves me in the shoulder. "And you wouldn't cheat on Jade."

"Yes, as I said, because-." Ah. "Yes, of course I wouldn't cheat on Jade. This was just-. If he wanted to make me think I wasn't."

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I mean, it hardly needed saying, but humans can sometimes forget that.

Roy shakes his head, an action which the helmet just about relates to the exterior world. "Paul's got a problem with a child custody case, and we want a telepath to investigate."

J'adekn stares at him, then turns his head to take in the rest of the area, and the hundreds of telepaths walking or floating around. "O-kay? What's so special about me?" He cups himself in a decidedly non-Jade way. "Other than the obvious."

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I'm guessing he had to add a little more up top just to allow him to do that, since Jade proper isn't that big. Even after her brief use of the Ring...

Roy shrugs and turns to me.

"Religion."

J'aarkn blinks, shifting back to his default humanish form. "Huh?"

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Huh, a metaphorical flashbang into the conversation.

"While my empathy lets me perceive all emotions, as an Orange Lantern and Host of the Ophidian I'm drawn to avarice first. I want this, you want something I can help you with. Our desires work together to achieve things which advance both our positions. Thus, that is the thing to do. Yes, I could find a way to hire a random Martian…"

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And it might be cleaner for the purposes of impartiality if he did...

I look around at the dozen or so who are showing an unusual degree of interest in us. Two raise their hands.

"Or just ask them to do it for the privilege of my company, my dedication to the orange light means that I regard this as more.. elegant."

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Aw. Those two seemed real eager.

"Remind me where Bir Tawil is again?"

"North east Africa. Just south of Greater Kahndaq. I'm told that the value of the real estate actually gone up since Isis replanted the region."

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So, somewhere on the Egypt-Sudan border? One of those 'disputed' regions, perhaps... After all, the DC globe is a lot messier with its alternate countries.

He grins. "Hey, beachfront property."

"Land's the only thing they're not making more of."

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As in there may be a few ladies in need of a handsome, temporary husband?

"Alright, so what's the case?"

Roy points at me. "He kidnapped a boy, and his mother wants him back."

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Roy, you do know it makes OL sound like the bad guy when you say it that way.

"Ah… Huh?"

"I prefer to think of it as emancipation. He could have gone back to Daxam at any time. He chose not to."

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Especially if him staying would have involved mind-wipes.

"Oh-kayyyy..?" J'aarkn looks decidedly uncomfortable. "How old are we talking?"

"Early teens-. Human-equivalent early teens."

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Since Kryptonians, and thus Daxamites, mature a little differently.

"I'm… I mean, I… So… What would I be doing on Daxam?"

"Firstly, finding out what would happen to him if he went back. Secondly, finding out how they knew where Earth is and that he's here."

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Both very important details. The former for the case, the latter for determining if someone in NEMO leaked critical information...

"Heh, look, I think M'gann M'orzz has given you unreasonable expectations about what a martian can do."

"You'll need to scan the boy's father and a couple of people in their police. They're isolationists, and they've never encountered a telepath before so even if they have learned the kryptonian theta waves state, they can't have practiced with it."

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I mean, you say that, but... Kryptonian psychic shit is almost as broken as Earth Bullshit™.

"Kryp-? Like Superman?"

"Daxam's sun is red. No powers. They probably have technology that can detect telepathy, but they're primitivist isolationists. They're advanced technology is kept in isolated vaults for situations where they know that they need it. If you get spotted then you should have plenty of time to leave."

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Especially if OL and Roy are lurking nearby in stealth for a quick pickup.

"Okay." He frowns as he considers the offer. "So this is some kind of messy custody thing, right?"

"Essentially, yes. Except there's no judge and everyone has high-end superpowers."

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So if things get messy, they will get really messy.

"And-. Alright, checking the kid would be okay if he went back? I can do that. And I get the universe is a real big place… But…"

"Yes?"

"I… Think I should check up on the kid, too. Like… I know how these things go, and wanna square it with my con-."

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...Conscience? That's fair. I would suspect he's rather protective of children, given the occasional scandal he'd have seen back in the day...

"That's fine, but I'd appreciate it if you'd visit Daxam first. Negotiations continue in nine hours or so, and I'd like the information by then. Sodam Yat is currently in Bir Tawil, so you can see him when I drop you off."

"Okay." He nods, looking a good deal happier. "And can you get me Simon's current number? I should give him a call."

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...oooh, that one's a bit more complicated. Besides, he's not really a talent agent anyway, before...

"It turned out that Simon Leas was an Apokoliptian infiltrator and he's currently sitting in a sciencell on Oa."

He stares. "'Apokoliptian', like… Oh. I had.. no idea."

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I would hope word spread of what happened on Earth by now, so any ties to Apokoliptian anything would be a big worry.

"I know, but the police are probably going to want to interview you anyway. I can get you Sally Sonic's current number-."

"No, no, I'm good." He gets up, picking up his sandwich-equivalent as he does so. "Where's your ship?"

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Says a lot when he's that reluctant to make contact with her...

Well, hopefully there's no accusations of collusion or bribery thrown their way when Johnnie shares this with the disputing parties and the arbitrating Lantern. Nor any difficulty in Johnnie getting the information needed in the first place, especially if the Daxamites are being paranoid enough to keep mental defences up when there's no apparent danger.

---

He assumes Jade appearance...

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He assumes Jade's appearance...

They're advanced technology is kept...

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Their advanced technology is kept...

 

[BR549]

"You'll need to scan the boy's father and a couple of people in their police. They're isolationists, and they've never encountered a telepath before so even if they have learned the kryptonian theta waves state, they can't have practiced with it."

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Hmmm. Now, what was it that was said a page or so back?

Ah yes:

In point of fact he wouldn't have been able to due to her being quite good at maintaining the theta wave state, but he doesn't know that.

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Morgan Freeman: It did not, in fact, go well.

So, somewhere on the Egypt-Sudan border? One of those 'disputed' regions, perhaps... After all, the DC globe is a lot messier with its alternate countries.

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Bir Tawil is an actual place in real life. It's a spot on the border between Sudan and Egypt that, due to a discrepency between borders established in 1899 (followed by Egypt) and 1902 (followed by Sudan) is claimed by neither.

 

[ForeverShogo]

Well, he now knows Sleez was from Apokalips. It'll certainly be interesting if he ever gets the further context that all those happy and willing performers likely weren't as happy as he thought they were.

That's not even getting into how much of his current personality might have been shaped by Sleez.

 

[Mr Zoat]

He assumes Jade's appearance...
Their advanced technology is kept...

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Questianor]

According to law of Orange Lantern ceded authority to them thinking they would naturally agree with this point of view only to get pissy when they didn't.

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Point of fact, I don't think he did cede authority. All that happened is that Jordan informed him the Daxamites asked for Green Lantern arbitration. I guess you could argue he implicitly submitted to their final judgement by talking to Arisia but I don't think that's a very strong argument, especially since, as you note, he left that conversation pretty quickly. He never ceded authority to the Justice League either; he just said he'd talk to Coutara and Yat and encouraged them to go see Daxam for themselves. Also, the arbitration seems very ad hoc and doesn't appear to follow any established legal code so I'm not sure "one party withdrew" actually means anything unless Arisia wants it to mean something (and I don't think Arisia is uncharitable enough here to interpret Paul's taking leave as having left negotiations entirely anyway). And I think Arisia is smart enough to get the sense the Daxamites are not any more likely to submit willingly to an unfavorable judgement here than Paul is. And the other great thing about ad hoc negotiations is you actually can take into account practical matters like "what if the Orange Lanterns say no?". In fact Arisia has probably been advised to consider inter-corps relations here. Even if her final judgement is that Yat should be returned to Daxam, she hardly has the authority to, say, demand that Paul removes Yat's orange ring, and it'd be farcical for her to assert she had such authority even if Paul had ceded authority on this custody dispute (let's see the GLC agree to remove somebody's ring on an OL's say-so because a GL agreed to listen when somebody asked for an OL arbiter about a dispute).

 

[RichardWhereat]

Well, fuck. I better stop, then.

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We also use English, and swearing a bunch too.

 

[Mr Zoat]

We also use English, and swearing a bunch too.

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Aping your betters is one thing, us aping you is entirely beyond the pale.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Aping your betters is one thing, us aping you is entirely beyond the pale.

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An Australian would have to ape an old god to ape their betters

 

[Mr Zoat]

26th July 2013
18:15 GMT

"You can just go back down, you know." Lantern Taranna glances at me, then goes back to hanging morosely in space. "Kara's usually pretty good about putting things on 'pause'."

"Is she taking Sodam back?"

I raise my left eyebrow. "How would that even work?"

"She could ask him to go back?"

"Taranna…" I twist so that my right ankle is resting on my left thigh, with my right elbow resting thinker pose style on my right knee. "I do hope that I haven't at any point encouraged you to be mindlessly obedient. That's… Sort of the exact opposite of what Orange Lanterns are supposed to be."

"I might go home if Mum told me to. I still feel nervous about pretending to be betrothed."

"No you don't."

She frowns at me for a moment, then dips her head. "No, I feel bad about it. Uurh!"

"Some people respond to the inequities in their culture by rejecting it whole cloth, as you have. And some respond by clinging harder to everything… That doesn't involve gouging eyes out."

"That was kind of a big part of it. And praising that god you killed."

"I'm not sure it was really powerful enough to be properly classified as a 'god'."

"I remember when you asked about guide dogs. We do actually have animals that can be trained like that, but no one did. Not in our culture. Every other part of my planet used them like that for the blind." She moues. "'Extreme patriarchy'. Crippling the women when they become women, and then marrying them to whoever their father determines is best when they're at their most vulnerable to encourage psychological dependency. Why would she want to keep any of that?"

"Because she was encouraged to be psychologically dependant from early adulthood. Has she considered remarrying herself?"

"No, that's not really something we had. We didn't have divorce, obviously, and a woman whose husband died… Would usually be sent back to her father's house, if she didn't have an adult son. And Mum.. didn't."

"And… Does their-? Did their father try and find them a new husband?"

"Uh, maybe. They usually became… Uh, secondary wives."

"Ah."

"Which was bad because they wouldn't be able to find their way around, their new husband probably wouldn't have the time to.. bond with them, and the first wife probably wouldn't want to either."

I nod. "Ah, divide and rule, that old chestnut. So not only did you get blinded, you'd have been denied any of the tools that would let you navigate while blind."

She nods. "I looked up the adaptations your people make and I was amazed. And then I looked at my own world and found out that every other country's does at least some of them. I didn't know."

"Did you actually have a betrothal arranged?"

"I wouldn't have been told until later. I only saw my Dad once.. afterwards. And that was the last thing on my mind."

"Is Lantern Coutara still married?"

"No, Mum was kind of divorced the moment she left Dad's house. It's convenient, at least."

"Ah… Your grandparents?"

"I think the princesses probably killed my grandfathers. We weren't close." She stares towards the daxamite ship. "I do like having a brother, though. One from a different culture. He didn't have having his eyes gouged out hanging over him for his entire childhood."

"No, but I'm not entirely sure what daxamites do with cultural iconoclasts." She jerks her head back towards me, looking concerned. "I've got some people checking now. My main concern here is that they'll try and force something. I assume that you fabricated-."

"Lead dust." She nods. "To weaken them but not kill them, because we can get it out of their bodies later."

"Good show." I look down at the Earth, which miraculously hasn't exploded. "Alright, I'm turning in. Send me a message the moment anything changes."

"Do you think.. they actually will try something?"

"Yes. Absolutely. This is Earth, interesting times incarnate. There's basically no chance that they won't try something. Or someone, at least."

"There aren't that many of them, and even if they wear an environmental shield we could pierce it far easier than we could piece their skin. There's no way they could reliably avoid lead dust, I've been practicing with x-ionised knives, and a lot of human cities still have lead paint. They'd just die."

"How many people died when we ended your home country's priesthood?" I shrug. "How many chose not to surrender even when they realised that it was hopeless? People just get locked onto an idea sometimes, no matter how impractical." Hm. "But it's probably best that we don't kill Lantern Yat's natural mother if we can possibly avoid it."

She nods.

"Right. I will see you tomorrow."

I transition down, ending up on the balcony of my home.

Another night where I can't really justify leaving Earth.

I sigh.

I turn, heading inside and shutting the door behind me with a wave of my hand. Lantern Coutara looks up from the kitchen table. "Is Lantern Yat asleep?"

She nods. "How are things with.. Cara Yat?"

"She's going to be trouble. Fortunately, she's alienating everyone with her attitude. Just a matter of finding out what her Plan B is, stopping it and sending her home."

"He is safe, then?"

"There's no such things as complete safety, but he should be. Lan-."

"How do you..?" She stands up with an oddly meek posture, her eyes dimming. "Want to do.. this?"

"I don't." She looks up, surprised. "I sometimes miss social cues, but I did spot this one. To be clear, I arranged a meeting for Lantern Taranna not because I'm assuming paternal authority but because Roy's lonely and I thought they might hit it off. I'm looking after Lantern Yat because I caused this problem by recruiting him in the way that I did, not because I have a father's duty towards him. I invited you to my home because it's adequately defended, not because I intend to make you my concubine. Do you understand?"

"Ah-. I-." She looks up. "Yes?"

"Though if you're looking for a partner because you want one, my friend Alan is a great guy."

 

[GigaVanguard]

Which was bad[/b] because they wouldn't be able to find their way around

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Tried to close a bold tag instead of italics here

 

[Thundersmight94]

"Though if you're looking for a partner because you want one, my friend Alan is a great guy."

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There needs to be a moment where Paul gets an intervention from his single friends and acquaintances and asks him to stop recommending them to everyone he meets.

 

[Neruz]

There needs to be a moment where Paul gets an intervention from his single friends and acquaintances and asks him to stop recommending them to everyone he meets.

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"Stop trying to set up your friends with hot aliens Paul!"

 

[Darko]

e. "I do hope that I haven't at any point encouraged you to be mindlessly obedient. That's… Sort of the exact opposite of what Orange Lanterns are supposed to be

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Unless they desire to be obedient.

"I'm not sure it was really powerful enough to be properly classified as a 'god

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Paul, I think you have a slightly warped perception of what is considered powerful.

Extreme patriarchy'. Crippling the women when they become women, and then marrying them to whoever their father determines is best when they're at their most vulnerable to encourage psychological dependency. Why would she want to keep any of that?"

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Not to mention financial dependency.

I doubt their country had a lot of job openings for blind women that actually paid a living wage.

back to her father house,

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"father's"

that every other countries

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"country"

"Ah… Your grandparents?"

"I think the princesses probably killed my grandfathers

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Koriand'r and Komand'r for those that don't know.

"No, but I'm not entirely sure what daxamites do with cultural iconoclasts

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Nothing good.

 

[TFTwink]

Unless they desire to be obedient

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I don't think anyone that desires to be obedient would have a coherent enough desire to be picked up by the orange light, regardless of how much that person desires it.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

Paul, I think you have a slightly warped perception of what is considered powerful.

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He does have a fairly large sample size of gods by which to judge the cutoff though.

I don't think anyone that desires to be obedient would have a coherent enough desire to be picked up by the orange light, regardless of how much that person desires it.

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We literally just visited Lantern Son of Great Mother.

 

[Neruz]

I don't think anyone that desires to be obedient would have a coherent enough desire to be picked up by the orange light, regardless of how much that person desires it.

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Alien desires are a thing, but it would also just depend on the specifics. Some people are fundamentally 'followers' and do in fact have a significant underlying desire to find an appropriate leader to be a minion for, so to speak.

I can say this with absolute certainty because I am one of those people, and under the right circumstances I would literally kill for a good leader that I felt I could trust with my life.

That said, for me personally the desire to find someone to follow is not particularly strong, it's there and I'd undoubtedly be happier in life if I fulfilled that desire, but it's not something that dominates my mental space. However I could easily see how it could dominate someone's mental space, to the point that finding a leader that meets their criteria could be the major desire that drives them through life.

Also, as The Froggy Ninja mentioned above; Lantern Son of Great Mother is a thing, and his entire shtick is that he wants someone to assign him mindless repetitive tasks for the rest of forever, which is fundamentally a desire for obedience.

 

[TFTwink]

He does have a fairly large sample size of gods by which to judge the cutoff though.

We literally just visited Lantern Son of Great Mother.

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I can say this with absolute certainty because I am one of those people, and under the right circumstances I would literally kill for a good leader that I felt I could trust with my life.

That said, for me personally the desire to find someone to follow is not particularly strong, it's there and I'd undoubtedly be happier in life if I fulfilled that desire, but it's not something that dominates my mental space. However I could easily see how it could dominate someone's mental space, to the point that finding a leader that meets their criteria could be the major desire that drives them through life.

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I see where y'all're coming from, but I always interpreted Lantern Sun Of Great Mother's desire as a desire to have a rigid social structure in which he is especially relied on/privileged in getting tasks, as seen by his irritation at potentially having his job 'stolen'.

As for people who would kill to have a leader or even a more abstract desire to be lead (a la higher power), that's where my coherency argument comes in. I'm not denying that the desire exists or that it could be strong, but we've seen the orange light be most successfully used when focused on something specific. As such, my argument is that wanting someone else's actions are too broad and distanced from the self to properly call an orange ring across the galaxy. My example for this is how the 'keep everyone safe' wish required the Ophidian to actualize. The actions themselves could be accomplished by any inter-stellar species but the broadness of the wish exacerbated the cost.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

26th July 2013
18:15 GMT

"You can just go back down, you know." Lantern Taranna glances at me, then goes back to hanging morosely in space. "Kara's usually pretty good about putting things on 'pause'."

"Is she taking Sodam back?"

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I see she's settled solidly into 'protective big sister' as a role in this little found-family. I have to wonder if she was really enjoying the human-style sleepover party or not. It was probably all very strange to her...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

I raise my left eyebrow. "How would that even work?"

"She could ask him to go back?"

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Unless there's some pre-existing psychological conditioning invovled, I don't think Sodam is going to do anything his parents ask of him...

"Taranna…" I twist so that my right ankle is resting on my left thigh, with my right elbow resting thinker pose style on my right knee. "I do hope that I haven't at any point encouraged you to be mindlessly obedient. That's… Sort of the exact opposite of what Orange Lanterns are supposed to be."

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As long as they don't go too far the other way and set themselves up as rulers of an empire or start stealing everything that isn't nailed down (and taking crowbar construct to what is.) Either is kind of bad...

"I might go home if Mum told me to. I still feel nervous about pretending to be betrothed."

"No you don't."

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Well, you don't want to disappoint her. That's a hard feeling to overcome, especially in a culture like the one you were raised in...

She frowns at me for a moment, then dips her head. "No, I feel bad about it. Uurh!"

"Some people respond to the inequities in their culture by rejecting it whole cloth, as you have. And some respond by clinging harder to everything… That doesn't involve gouging eyes out."

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At least she's able to make that choice now.

"That was kind of a big part of it. And praising that god you killed."

"I'm not sure it was really powerful enough to be properly classified as a 'god'."

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It was pretty god-like to them, OL. Jut because you've been dealing with things that could have squashed it like an ant...

"I remember when you asked about guide dogs. We do actually have animals that can be trained like that, but no one did. Not in our culture. Every other part of my planet used them like that for the blind." She moues. "'Extreme patriarchy'. Crippling the women when they become women, and then marrying them to whoever their father determines is best when they're at their most vulnerable to encourage psychological dependency. Why would she want to keep any of that?"

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Huh. I wonder why the other nations never moved to stop them. Fear of their 'god' maybe? Perhaps someone tried and an example was made...

"Because she was encouraged to be psychologically dependant from early adulthood. Has she considered remarrying herself?"

"No, that's not really something we had. We didn't have divorce, obviously, and a woman whose husband died… Would usually be sent back to her father's house, if she didn't have an adult son. And Mum.. didn't."

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Ah, yes. A scant few steps above 'The females aren't even sentient. Why are you complaining about them?' level of misogyny.

"And… Does their-? Did their father try and find them a new husband?"

"Uh, maybe. They usually became… Uh, secondary wives."

"Ah."

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Well, that just sounds so much worse. Practically live-in concubines treated as chattel slaves to the primary wife, I bet.

"Which was bad because they wouldn't be able to find their way around, their new husband probably wouldn't have the time to.. bond with them, and the first wife probably wouldn't want to either."

I nod. "Ah, divide and rule, that old chestnut. So not only did you get blinded, you'd have been denied any of the tools that would let you navigate while blind."

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And then they'd probably be beaten for not 'trying harder to fit in' or something, I'd wager.

She nods. "I looked up the adaptations your people make and I was amazed. And then I looked at my own world and found out that every other country does at least some of them. I didn't know."

"Did you actually have a betrothal arranged?"

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Heh. Humans are pretty surprisingly good at overcoming handicaps and impairments with a little help. Even if it involves stuff like losing a chunk of your brain.

"I wouldn't have been told until later. I only saw my Dad once.. afterwards. And that was the last thing on my mind."

"Is Lantern Coutara still married?"

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I imagine the encounter wasn't much fun for daddy, Eh?

"No, Mum was automatically divorced the moment she left Dad's house. It's convenient, at least."

"Ah… Your grandparents?"

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Because 'a woman daring to step outside her husband's house unaccompanied is clearly defective and unworthy of being married... Or of continued existence', I would suspect is what the men would say...

"I think the princesses probably killed my grandfathers. We weren't close." She stares towards the daxamite ship. "I do like having a brother, though. One from a different culture. He didn't have having his eyes gouged out hanging over him for his entire childhood."

"No, but I'm not entirely sure what daxamites do with cultural iconoclasts." She jerks her head back towards me, looking concerned. "I've got some people checking now. My main concern here is that they'll try and force something. I assume that you fabricated-."

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Yeah, there's that 'protective big sister' thing again. She won't let him go easy, will she?

"Lead dust." She nods. "To weaken them but not kill them, because we can get it out of their bodies later."

"Good show." I look down at the Earth, which miraculously hasn't exploded. "Alright, I'm turning in. Send me a message the moment anything changes."

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I'd say he's being a worrywart, but this is a DC Universe and that is a completely rational concern sometimes.

"Do you think.. they actually will try something?"

"Yes. Absolutely. This is Earth, interesting times incarnate. There's basically no chance that they won't try something. Or someone, at least."

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Wonder how that idiom even translates, if it does at all? Then again, 'interesting times' could be a common shorthand for stuff going wrong.

"There aren't that many of them, and even if they wear an environmental shield we could pierce it far easier than we could piece their skin. There's no way they could reliably avoid lead dust, I've been practicing with x-ionised knives, and a lot of human cities still have lead paint. They'd just die."

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Never mind atmospheric contamination, which is what messed with Mon-el (aka Val-orr) a time or two back in the day. Though i expect that's starting to drop off thanks to Lantern involvement and cleaner automotive tech.

"How many people died when we ended your home country's priesthood?" I shrug. "How many chose not to surrender even when they realised that it was hopeless? People just get locked onto an idea sometimes, no matter how impractical." Hm. "But it's probably best that we don't kill Lantern Yat's natural mother if we can possibly avoid it."

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...That might cause some hard feelings, however he feels about her.

She nods.

"Right. I will see you tomorrow."

Click to shrink...

Don't stay out too late, missie. Kara's probably keeping all her slumber party stuff warm for you.

I transition down, ending up on the balcony of my home.

Another night where I can't really justify leaving Earth.

I sigh.

Click to shrink...

Wishing he could go give Jade a hug, perhaps?

I turn, heading inside and shutting the door behind me with a wave of my hand. Lantern Coutara looks up from the kitchen table. "Is Lantern Yat asleep?"

She nods. "How are things with.. Cara Yat?"

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Ah, she worries about all of them. Delightfully maternal of her.

"She's going to be trouble. Fortunately, she's alienating everyone with her attitude. Just a matter of finding out what her Plan B is, stopping it and sending her home."

"He is safe, then?"

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She really does care for him, after all. His safety being so high on her list of desires...

"There's no such things as complete safety, but he should be. Lan-."

"How do you..?" She stands up with an oddly meek posture, her eyes dimming. "Want to do.. this?"

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...Er, what? Oh, no, don't tell me she...

"I don't." She looks up, surprised. "I sometimes miss social cues, but I did spot this one. To be clear, I arranged a meeting for Lantern Taranna not because I'm assuming paternal authority but because Roy's lonely and I thought they might hit it off. I'm looking after Lantern Yat because I caused this problem by recruiting him in the way that I did, not because I have a father's duty towards him. I invited you to my home because it's adequately defended, not because I intend to make you my concubine. Do you understand?"

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...Phew, good to head that misunderstanding off at the pass promptly.

"Ah-. I-." She looks up. "Yes?"

"Though if you're looking for a partner because you want one, my friend Alan is a great guy."

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...OL, please. Alan doesn't need dating help anymore, I'm sure.

I suppose enough clues were there that he cottoned on to her assumption very quickly. And then undermines himself by suggesting she meet Alan. Let's hope others of Coutara's age who took the Ring aren't experiencing similar misunderstandings. I suppose all he can do now is wait for Johnnie to return from Daxam with his observations... Wonder what the Renegade's been up to then?

 

[Neruz]

As for people who would kill to have a leader or even a more abstract desire to be lead (a la higher power), that's where my coherency argument comes in. I'm not denying that the desire exists or that it could be strong, but we've seen the orange light be most successfully used when focused on something specific. As such, my argument is that wanting someone else's actions are too broad and distanced from the self to properly call an orange ring across the galaxy. My example for this is how the 'keep everyone safe' wish required the Ophidian to actualize. The actions themselves could be accomplished by any inter-stellar species but the broadness of the wish exacerbated the cost.

Click to shrink...

The desire for a leader that you can trust is fairly specific, like there are very specific traits I would look for in such a person, and if you gave me an orange ring I would probably at least try to see if I could find someone who met those criteria.

I agree that a general "I just want to do what I'm told and I don't care who is telling me" desire is likely to be too vague to have much draw on the orange light without extreme circumstances, but there are absolutely subcategories of obedience that could be specific enough to do the job.

 

[Signaller]

"No, that's not really something we had. We didn't have divorce, obviously, and a woman whose husband died… Would usually be sent back to her father house, if she didn't have an adult son. And Mum.. didn't."
...
"Is Lantern Coutara still married?"

"No, Mum was automatically divorced the moment she left Dad's house. It's convenient, at least."

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Not sure this quite lines up with the last time it was discussed:

"I, um. I am still legally married."

"Oh, I thought-?"

"We are not 'together', but my… In my country, we don't have divorce."

"Maltus does. And since I literally killed your country's god, I'm pretty sure I have the authority to divorce you myself."

"I don't think that Jerrd would agree to that."

"Okay, this sounds like a cultural difference we should probably talk about at length

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Could be explained by the priesthood of the planet explicitly not teaching their women what the actual laws and rights were?

 

[PDV]

Unless they desire to be obedient.

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Strong desire to be obedient as an end in itself is subsuming yourself in someone else's desires. Might be good Violet behavior, or Indigo; not Orange.