With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Z000 · 2026-04-25T08:02:57+0100

Smiley was being awfully chatty and i'm not sure if he trying to talk to Paul about his issue or just buy time

Someguy Somewhere · 2026-04-25T08:15:02+0100

And now I recall that Luthor hid from the antilife in on some demiplane like extra dimensional space. Makes more sense if smiley was who moved him out. After all, who wants Lex to change? Not this guy

NightmareWarden · 2026-04-25T08:20:57+0100

mastermenthe said:
The fact that BS is even having this conversation means he wants OL on his side.

Or he works like a New God, and the victory over does matters, rather than the boost in effectiveness from something resembling Paul. A similar victory would warrant similar rewards. Perhaps a recharge or extension on his life expectancy?

Ah, new update! Yay! I enjoy this fic, this world, and this sort of heroism.

Interesting that truth seems to be a part of Smai O'Leigh's nature. That's not quite right. Perhaps it's a bit like... To use a Deltarune and Touhou term, grazing as close to the truth as possible? Sure, I can imagine some conceptual power in that. I'm not sure if (under this pardigm) his deception during the Heaven episode was permitted because he was outside of the moral world, "he" was letting a copy talk to OL rather than talk through it, or he was simply careful enough with his wording that he merely proposed possible explanations, rather than stating points as truth.

Chojin Patriarch · 2026-04-25T08:37:00+0100

Mr Zoat said:
1st September 2013
15:12 GMT

"My confidence that Batman is being a net positive to humanity is about eighty-five percent, and most of that fifteen is due to the difficult to foresee long term consequences of our actions."

Mr. Mackensen looks down at the… Distant car park where his employees are looking up at us. "My lord… Could you please tell me what you want me to do?"

I'm imagining the yellow-faced bastard being about 60-odd feet at this point, big enough that he's holding them like 1/10-th scale action figures... Let's hope he likes to take care of his toys.

The round yellow head orientates on him. "Oh? Do you worship me now, Charlie?"

"Ah-I.. can be practical?"

He's worship a side of bacon if it saved his right now.

"So, yes."

"What?"

Ah, it's one of those conceptual things... The mere act of doing something the yellow git approves of is enough to get his attention.

Boss Smiley raises his left hand to chin level. "You see, Charlie, I'm not a demon. I don't need a written contract signed in blood. I need deliberate intent. And I have to say that your actions are both deliberate and intentional. You want to make your own life better and you don't care what you have to do to pull it off. And that makes you one of my people."

'Me first, screw you guys', eh? It fits with his logic. I wonder if the smiling tosser can even really comprehend selflessness and altruism?

"Then..?" He glances at me.

"Him?" Boss Smiley keeps smiling. "I'm not your personal savour, Charlie. I have my own interests. I held up my end of our bargain, and that's all you get. Unless you've got a better proposal?"

Also fitting to his methodology. He merely gives his pawns what they need to get started, and if they can profit with that, all the better...

He thinks for about half a second.

"Transfer me into his body. I can expand my operations without worrying about being detected by the owner."

And somewhere, a million criminal geniuses facepalm without knowing why.

"Come on, Charlie, I know you're smarter than this. You don't know enough to trick his friends into believing that you're him."

"I can-."

Bitch, please. Being 'quirky and mercurial' is not going to cut it.

"Charlie, not a lot of people are out of my reach, but members of the Justice League are screened by Nommo Balewa and J'onn J'onzz and he is screened by Hinon Hee Hannanan."

"I.. don't know who that is."

Though OL is probably sweating a little knowing that the grinning git does.

"Exactly. Charlie, you're a bit-player. You had a decent scheme but you rushed the implementation. And since I'm not a demon I'm going to be straight with you: the best thing you can do is take a fall and rebuild later, older and wiser."

Hm. "And you're saying that because you don't think he's constitutionally capable of changing, so 'wiser' just means 'do the same basic thing with more foresight'."

Ah, close to the definition of madness. Of course, OL will prove to be a big agent of change in that regard.

"Ah, Paul." He raises his right hand up higher, level with his eyes. "That's all anyone can do. That's what I find frustrating about you. What exactly do you think is inhuman about Charlie here?"

"He seems like the sort to make pacts with demons, so it wouldn't exactly shock me to learn that he's got a bit of demon in him."

To be fair, Andrews does seem like a weaker, dumber version of John Constantine, with none of his wiliness or good sense.

"No, he's clean. His niche is using fey magic." Boss Smiley turns his head left and then right, implying that he's checking for eavesdroppers while being about two hundred metres tall before sharing something in confidence with me. "He thinks it's less risky."

Well, that's a big mistake.

I take a moment to consider what I've learned about the fey. The regular fey, not the future-sheeda. It's… Technically true that they're less dangerous than demons, but the sort that it's useful to make pacts with tend to be a lot more intelligent and it's easier for them to interact with the Earth. And their customer service is worse. It… Might be worth taking time to find out exactly what he offered them in exchange for tuition.

Yes, they work with so many rules of etiquette that sooner or later, you will make an unknowable gaffe and piss off someone dangerous.

"Okay. You tried corrupting my company-. Or revealing human nature to me or whatever you think this is-."

"You are hard work, do you know that?"

So the smiling git wants to work out what makes OL tick and apply leverage to him with it, eh? Make him dance to his tune, however he can.

"It has been commented on before."

"I am trying to communicate to you that his graft was harmless and benefited people in a way that it didn't occur to you to try and do. You can't control everything, and that means that not everything that happens will be enacted in accordance with your desires."

And OL is very much aware of that, thanks. The issue the yellow-faced fool is having is that he can't work out how to exploit that, isn't it?

"I'm-"

"Kid Flash to Orange Lantern."

Oh, backup on the way, perhaps?

…

That was on my internal communication system.

Ah, full armour with its face-concealing design. Makes having private conversations easier.

"-not sure I understand where you're going with this. Plus it's hard to gel that claim with the attempted murder." Internal. "Orange Lantern here. Found anything?"

"A whole lot of low grade magic paraphernalia and some cursed posters. Arte's dealing with them now. What are you doing?"

Dealing with them with prejudice, I bet. Wonder if that's putting the big tosser off his game at all?

"Talking to his sponsor, Boss Smiley."

"Like… Metaphorically..?"

No, Wally. Honestly, I'm amazed people aren't seeing this play out and rushing to assist OL yet.

"He's literally holding me right now."

"Oh El, you made the news. You're on T.V.. You're just floating there."

...Well, bugger. The smiling git's either incapable of being perceived except by living minds or he's got one hell of a concealment glamour going on.

"Murder? Murder who?"

External. "Several people who were using his products."

"Charlie, I don't remember anything about murdering people."

...So the not-so-smiling one wasn't the one responsible? Interesting.

"I did not order any murders. But I don't control what everyone who buys from me does with the product."

Ring, spell eater temperature?

Normal.

...But someone used the sympathetic magic connected to the users to affect them. If not Andrews or Mister Emoticon here, who?

I look down again, and… People aren't fleeing in terror. And my Construct Lanterns aren't reacting. Alright, but-.

Internal. "Kid Flash, am I making a construct sphere right now?"

So only Andrews and OL are getting any sign of his existence right now.

"No? Are you trying to?"

"Yes. Can you see my environmental shield?"

"The camera's not that close, dude."

Which should be suspicious, as an environmental shield's pretty obvious, unless it really doesn't show through OL's heavy armour. And do they see Andrews at all, is he floating independently or do they just see him in a restraint made by OL? So many questions...

Okay. I'm not being affected by magic but something is removing my ability to make constructs. Actually removing, not just making me think it is. For a moment I wonder if this whole thing is a glamour from Mr. Andrews, but… That shouldn't work this well on me, and his reactions don't look feigned. Boss Smiley doesn't appear to be lying, but…

You're not inclined to take his words at face value anyway, knowing he's got some sort of agenda in mind.

He told me that he doesn't exist.

I saved Timothy by disrupting the drug's magic, but I saved Mr. Mackensen and Mr. Oyebe using-.

Ah, finding a weakness he can exploit against the yellow git.

I activate my armour's short-ranged planar jammer, and get the pleasure of seeing Boss Smiley recoil for a moment before shimmering out of existence.

A short distance from me, Mr. Andrews falls-.

And I choose to picture him getting an

expression before popping like a soap bubble.

I grab him with a construct.

"What?" He stares around. "Where did he go?"

"I'm not completely sure that he was completely here. It shouldn't be that easy something like him to move around the material-."

Also, don't expect to get out of this without answering some very pointed questions, Andrews.

"A glamour? But we were actually picked up-. Unless it was your constructs really doing it?"

"I don't think so. And I think I need to see where Mister Hayden is right now."

That's why I was wondering about what it looked like from the outside...

This has made matters very complicated indeed. How the hell is OL going to explain all this when people tend to dismiss the existence of the responsible party without hard evidence... And who the hell really did the attempted murder part if neither Andrews nor the smiling git claimed responsibility? Is Psycho-Pirate really awake, on some level beyond the physical and doing it?

Duke Long · 2026-04-25T08:48:18+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Mr. Mackensen looks down at the… Distant car park where his employees are looking up at us. "My lord… Could you please tell me what you want me to do?"

I thought he was Mr. Andrews?

Mr Zoat said:
Boss Smiley raises his left hand to chin level. "You see, Charlie, I'm not a demon. I don't need a written contract signed in blood. I need deliberate intent. And I have to say that your actions are both deliberate and intentional. You want to make your own life better and you don't care what you have to do to pull it off. And that makes you one of my people."

This is pretty cool. I'm guessing he gets some sort of control over people who 'willingly' worship him.

Mr Zoat said:
"Charlie, not a lot of people are out of my reach, but members of the Justice League are screened by Nommo Balewa and J'onn J'onzz and he is screened by Hinon Hee Hannanan."

"I.. don't know who that is."

Interesting that Smiley does. Did Oh El mention her publicly, or has he got access to Justice League records?

Mr Zoat said:
Hm. "And you're saying that because you don't think he's constitutionally capable of changing, so 'wiser' just means 'do the same basic thing with more foresight'."

"Ah, Paul." He raises his right hand up higher, level with his eyes. "That's all anyone can do. That's what I find frustrating about you. What exactly do you think is inhuman about Charlie here?"

Perhaps I'm looking too far into it, but this makes me wonder if rather than political corruption and social inertia, Boss Smiley is something like an embodiment of 'human nature' (or maybe 'selfishness'?). That would seem like it could be an ancient and powerful enough thing to spawn him. And I guess maybe there's something there about how the smiley face is the friendly mask people wear over their true selves, something something.

Human nature feels like an appropriate final boss for a story like this, with the uplift stuff. Oh El wants people to be able to sort themselves out, Boss Smiley thinks they can't.

Mr Zoat said:
I take a moment to consider what I've learned about they fey. The regular fey, not the future-sheeda. It's… Technically true that they're less dangerous than demons, but the sort that it's useful to make pacts with tend to be a lot more intelligent and it's easier for them to interact with the Earth. And their customer service is worse. It… Might be worth taking time to find out exactly what he offered them in exchange for tuition.

'the'

I think we saw some fae during that Aztec business? I feel like I remember one of them being quite funny. Like, he wanted to deceive people but wasn't very good at it, something like that.

Mr Zoat said:
"I am trying to communicate to you that his graft was harmless and benefited people in a way that it didn't occur to you to try and do. You can't control everything, and that means that not everything that happens will be enacted in accordance with your desires."

Was going to say 'benefitted' but I figure he has an American accent.
Assuming this isn't bullshit, what is Boss Smiley's purpose? Oh El should meddle less because people can sort themselves out? Seems like the type of thing Oh El would want to believe, at least.

Mr Zoat said:
He told me that he doesn't exist.

I saved Timothy by disrupting the drug's magic, but I saved Mr. Mackensen and Mr. Oyebe using-.

I activate my armour's short-ranged planar jammer, and get the pleasure of seeing Boss Smiley recoil for a moment before shimmering out of existence.

Interesting that Boss Smiley told the truth there. Maybe this means that whenever he appears it is always a projection or illusion, and he doesn't have a true form?

Also interesting that Boss Smiley was using an interplanar projection, the patches worked via interplanar magic, yet the murder attempts which used interplanar attacks were done by a third party? Good shout from Chojin Patriarch on Psycho Pirate, could be he was worried that in the absence of anything really dangerous Boss Smiley would talk around Oh El and the operation would continue rather than Psycho Pirate being freed and awakened.

With the interplanar stuff going on, my best guess for the anti-construct mechanism is that he is creating constructs but they're being shunted to other spatial dimensions. He could easily check for that by looking at his ring charge, though.

Darko · 2026-04-25T08:56:38+0100

Mr Zoat said:
your personal savour, Charlie. I have my own interests. I held up my end

"savior"

Mr Zoat said:
that easy something like him to move around the material-."

"for something"

Signaller · 2026-04-25T09:57:27+0100

Chojin Patriarch said:
I'm imagining the yellow-faced bastard being about 60-odd feet at this point, big enough that he's holding them like 1-th scale action figures... Let's hope he likes to take care of his toys.

If you're curious, the various Power Rangers deluxe transforming megazord toys are generally about right for N scale (1:160), with a handful of exceptions e.g. Lightspeed Rescue/GoGoV and Kiramager.

NightmareWarden said:
Or he works like a New God, and the victory over does matters, rather than the boost in effectiveness from something resembling Paul. A similar victory would warrant similar rewards. Perhaps a recharge or extension on his life expectancy?

Do we have to go back now and check every Boss Smiley appearance for invisitext?

Bigking321 · 2026-04-25T12:09:17+0100

Huh. I was honestly hoping for more conversation with Smiley. He's a tough one to figure out.

Mr Zoat · 2026-04-25T14:10:21+0100

Duke Long said:
I thought he was Mr. Andrews?
'the'

Thank you, corrected.

I'm guessing he gets some sort of control over people who 'willingly' worship him.

Boss Smiley isn't about control. He's about nudging.

Darko said:
"savior"
"for something"

Thank you, corrected.

Signaller said:
Do we have to go back now and check every Boss Smiley appearance for invisitext?

Yes, absolutely do that.

Khettien · 2026-04-25T14:30:05+0100

I wonder what Balewa would have to say about Boss Smiley?

Ardy · 2026-04-25T15:21:56+0100

Just wanna say that this video is basically the SI's dinner date with Lex a decade after Zoat did it.

I also want a Lexcorp extra-dimensional scientist to recover it from "prime" earth and show it to Luthor as the reason the SI thinks he's nuts

Darko · 2026-04-25T15:44:00+0100

Ardy said:
Just wanna say that this video is basically the SI's dinner date with Lex a decade after Zoat did it.

I also want a Lexcorp extra-dimensional scientist to recover it from "prime" earth and show it to Luthor as the reason the SI thinks he's nuts

Yeah, Lex really never stood a chance against Superman.

And it's not just because Superman is so powerful.

Mr Zoat · 2026-04-26T08:14:19+0100

1st September 2013
15:18 GMT

"I think this is a little excessive."

Bound hand and foot in my magic suppression chains, Mr. Andrews shuffles ahead of me as we walk towards the room where Mr. Hayden is being contained.

"Yes, you're probably right. But I don't know that Boss Smiley can't possess you or drag you to some sort of dark dream dimension, so they stay on."

Along with a larger and more powerful planar shield. I don't know why it worked but I know that it did work.

"I didn't know that he could do that."

"He did it to me, once. Possessed the Statue of Liberty and shoved me and a few friends through. I had to fight manifestations of the worst aspects of the American psyche to get out."

He thinks about that for a moment as he pushes the door open. And I should have really thought more about why there wasn't mass panic about the State of Liberty's head turning into a yellow sphere at the time.

"Why did you tell me that?"

"Because the British government might put you in prison or set you to work, but they're not going to kill you. And I don't consider what you've done serous enough to warrant an extra-judicial killing, no matter how annoyed I am about it. That means that one day you'll be free, and I'd like to provide you with information about your patron that will lead you to decide to break off your relationship."

"Is a minor corruption god really worth that much effort?"

The fungoid and the nurse are still here, along with the recumbent Mr. Hayden. She looks at her chained up boss for a moment and then gives me her full attention instead. Quick check on Mr. Hayden… He looks fine. And this close he's well within the affect area of my planar jammer.

That's… One theory looking increasingly less likely.

I return my attention to the somewhat attentive Mr. Andrews.

"I don't suppose you saw my lecture two years ago, did you?"

"No."

"Well, short version, humans have a lot of highly advanced technology, but we barely use it. I didn't understand 'why' so I decided to fix it."

He nods. "The dolmen gates and the reglaciation project."

"Among other things. The first time I confronted-. Was confronted by Boss Smiley, he claimed to be responsible for those technologies not coming to wider use, because it was convenient to him for humanity to remain limited. He offered me a pact wherein I would introduce some and not others at his discretion."

"Did you take it?"

"No, of course not. If he was telling the truth, then he has a vested interest in keeping us small and stupid. Trying to make a deal was him admitting that he couldn't stop us any longer while attempting to retain as much control as he could. Even if I didn't care about his past misdeeds -which I do- I couldn't trust him. I can't trust him."

"Alright, but what's that got to do with me? I don't care about advancing human civilisation."

"Alright, let me put it this way. Do you like eating bread?"

He frowns, clearly not knowing where I'm going with this. "I… Eat bread?"

"Do you like knowing that it's made of flour and not chalk?"

"What?"

"Chalk. Chalkies were a working class Victorian staple, and one of the causes of our first food anti-adulteration laws. Chalk was cheaper than actual flour, so bakers would add some to the dough to bulk it up."

"Then… Yes?"

"You like breathing air that's not full of lead compounds?"

"Yes?"

"That's what Boss Smiley is about, as far as I can tell. Making things just a bit worse so that he can act like he's in control. It's not like the baker has to eat the chalkies. And it's not like they'll actually kill you. Lead won't kill you either, not quickly, and making alternatives is just so expensive."

"So your argument is that by encouraging him, I'd be allowing him to encourage others in ways that would impact me?"

"That's my first approach. The next is that demons are at least somewhat predictable. I've bargained with demons before. And you know how to fight demons. Neither of us know what he actually is, or what he really wants, or how far is control goes when you make deals with him. We don't know how to fight him. Do you want to take that risk?"

"I… Suppose not. What demons, exactly?"

"Mammon, mostly. Though when the Host tried to kill me, most of the Lords of Hell turned up to give them a bloody nose. Oh, and Mazikeen, but she's kind of my daughter so that's really more of an exchange of late Christmas presents."

"Y-? Seriously?"

"Yes." I take out a rune stone and point it at Mr. Hayden. Looks like something we did removed the spell, but that wasn't what was keeping.. him… "Alternately, I can give you a book on Atlantean magical practice, you can improve your arcane strength until you don't need that sort of support, and then you can get a job in the rapidly expanding thaumaturgical sector." Hm. "After you are released from custody, of course."

"I'm just trying to get my head around the idea of you making pacts with demons."

"Oh, not like that. It was more 'Mammon, you're the least malevolent guy down here, I'm alright with you being in charge, don't make me regret that decision'."

"In that case, could I make a pact with you?"

"Uh, technically, you can make a pact with Ophidian the Temptress through me, but I'd need to see a record of good behaviour before I consider enabling that."

Still can't see Mr. Hayden's desires, and while his chest is moving, it's-. Completely regular.

I reach out and touch-.

His chest crumbles under my fingers, the membrane flaking into the nothing inside his chest. As the outer surface continues to collapse his eyes open long enough for him to glare triumphantly at me-.

And he's gone, decayed to nothing.

My rune stone's not glowing. And the planar jammer is… Still active.

What?

Scan whatever-. No, it's gone.

I'll… Try and get Mr. Scott to take a look, because that was an impressive escape.

"Right then. You have the right to remain silent…"

Ngamer11 · 2026-04-26T08:27:44+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"I'm just trying to get my head around the idea of you making pacts with demons."

"Oh, not like that. It was more 'Mammon, you're the least malevolent guy down here, I'm alright with you being in charge, don't make me regret that decision'."

"In that case, could I make a pact with you?"

"Uh, technically, you can make a pact with Ophidian the Temptress through me, but I'd need to see a record of good behaviour before I consider enabling that."

How many people would want to make a pact with Ophidian the Temptress through Paul?

Duke Long · 2026-04-26T08:43:29+0100

Mr Zoat said:
The fungoid and the nurse are still here, along with the recumbent Mr. Hayden. She looks at her chained up boss for a moment and then gives me her full attention instead. Quick check on Mr. Hayden… He looks fine. And this close he's well within the area affect of my planar jammer.

'of effect'? I've never seen 'area affect' before.

I wonder if Gary's daughter will ever make an appearance. Just idly wondering because he's in this paragraph.

Mr Zoat said:
"Among other things. The first time I confronted-. Was confronted by Boss Smiley, he claimed to be responsible for those technologies not coming to wider use, because it was convenient to him for humanity to remain limited. He offered me a pact wherein I would introduce some and not others at his digression."

'discretion'?

Mr Zoat said:
"Mammon, mostly. Though when the Host tried to kill me, most of the Lords of Hell turned up to give them a bloody nose. Oh, and Mazikeen, but she's kind of my daughter so that's really more of an exchange of late Christmas present."

'presents'?

Seems likely now that Psycho Pirate was indeed behind the murder attempts. And he was, I suppose, doing a really good job of pretending to be asleep after the spell was dispelled, and he had some sort of escape ability which required being touched? The only way I can imagine him 'escaping' without using magic or going to another plane is if this was just a doppelgänger of some sort which merely disintegrated itself, but that opens up new problems.

Neruz · 2026-04-26T08:50:43+0100

Ngamer11 said:
How many people would want to make a pact with Ophidian the Temptress through Paul?

Probably more than should be allowed to do so, people can be real dumb about that sort of thing.

Chojin Patriarch · 2026-04-26T08:59:45+0100

Mr Zoat said:
1st September 2013
15:18 GMT

"I think this is a little excessive."

Bound hand and foot in my magic suppression chains, Mr. Andrews shuffles ahead of me as we walk towards the room where Mr. Hayden is being contained.

Given that he's a minor hedge wizard whose worst crime outside of involvement with the patches seems to be squatting in a hotel room without paying, it might just be. But better safe than sorry, and the chain probably apply some measure of protection from outside influences too.

"Yes, you're probably right. But I don't know that Boss Smiley can't possess you or drag you to some sort of dark dream dimension, so they stay on."

Along with a larger and more powerful planar shield. I don't know why it worked but I know that it did work.

Keeping in mind that there's probably effective limits on the balance between size and potency.

"I didn't know that he could do that."

"He did it to me, once. Possessed the Statue of Liberty and shoved me and a few friends through. I had to fight manifestations of the worst aspects of the American psyche to get out."

Though some good did come of it. The freeing of Uncle Sam, for instance.

He thinks about that for a moment as he pushes the door open. And I should have really thought more about why there wasn't mass panic about the State of Liberty's head turning into a yellow sphere at the time.

"Why did you tell me that?"

Huh, that's a nice detail to remember. Evidently the smiling bastard's manifestations may be limited in perceivability to those he is appearing to. Everyone else sees nothing.

"Because the British government might put you in prison or set you to work, but they're not going to kill you. And I don't consider what you've done serous enough to warrant an extra-judicial killing, no matter how annoyed I am about it. That means that one day you'll be free, and I'd like to provide you with information about your patron that will lead you to decide to break off your relationship."

From Andrews' side, at least. Though the yellow-faced git does seem to accept it when people refuse to work with him, though he does have a habit of lining up consequences. Like in Prez's tale from Sandman, when his new wife gets murdered by a disturbed woman obsessed with Wildcat of all people.

"Is a minor corruption god really worth that much effort?"

The fungoid and the nurse are still here, along with the recumbent Mr. Hayden. She looks at her chained up boss for a moment and then gives me her full attention instead. Quick check on Mr. Hayden… He looks fine. And this close he's well within the area affect of my planar jammer.

If he were only a god, that'd be manageable. Bu their nature, Gods tend to be limited by their 'portfolios', rarely looking outside of them for options. But this bastard? We've seen he can pivot plans on a dime.

That's… One theory looking increasingly less likely.

I return my attention to the somewhat attentive Mr. Andrews.

"I don't suppose you saw my lecture two years ago, did you?"

The one about Humanity not making sensible use of its hyper-cognitives and mystical members? One guess who's responsible for that.

"No."

"Well, short version, humans have a lot of highly advanced technology, but we barely use it. I didn't understand 'why' so I decided to fix it."

He nods. "The dolmen gates and the reglaciation project."

That's only the start of it. Purple Healing Rays, for instance. Alchemical healing potions. Even the weather control drone project...

"Among other things. The first time I confronted-. Was confronted by Boss Smiley, he claimed to be responsible for those technologies not coming to wider use, because it was convenient to him for humanity to remain limited. He offered me a pact wherein I would introduce some and not others at his digression."

Hence our understanding of him as a power of stagnation and status quo... What if there was something deeper to his games? Trying to ensure Humanity develops in a way that benefits him when they do make advances, for instance?

"Did you take it?"

"No, of course not. If he was telling the truth, then he has a vested interest in keeping us small and stupid. Trying to make a deal was him admitting that he couldn't stop us any longer while attempting to retain as much control as he could. Even if I didn't care about his past misdeeds -which I do- I couldn't trust him. I can't trust him."

Indeed, the smiling git's methods are inimically opposed to OL's.

"Alright, but what's that got to do with me? I don't care about advancing human civilisation."

"Alright, let me put it this way. Do you like eating bread?"

I mean, that kind of depends on your body's response to things like gluten.

He frowns, clearly not knowing where I'm going with this. "I… Eat bread?"

"Do you like knowing that it's made of flour and not chalk?"

Huh, that's an interesting angle to take, but I see where he's going.

"What?"

"Chalk. Chalkies were a working class Victorian staple, and one of the causes of our first food anti-adulteration laws. Chalk was cheaper than actual flour, so bakers would add some to the dough to bulk it up."

That's actually a thing that happened, yes. Assholes gonna seek profit where they can, even at the expense of other people's health. Exactly in the yellow-faced bastard's wheelhouse, no doubt.

"Then… Yes?"

"You like breathing air that's not full of lead compounds?"

Now this, this is a reference to early petroleum products for commercial sale. 'Leaded' gasoline was commonly used in early engines to reduce 'knocking', until the ~~health~~ environmental impact was ~~realised~~ undeniable and it was banned in most uses. But for most of a century, cars burnt off lead-related exhaust byproducts into the atmosphere and it isn't going away quickly.

"Yes?"

"That's what Boss Smiley is about, as far as I can tell. Making things just a bit worse so that he can act like he's in control. It's not like the baker has to eat the chalkies. And it's not like they'll actually kill you. Lead won't kill you either, not quickly, and making alternatives is just so expensive."

Indeed, profit and convenience are driving factors of the decisions that resulted in those practices.

"So your argument is that by encouraging him, I'd be allowing him to encourage others in ways that would impact me?"

"That's my first approach. The next is that demons are at least somewhat predictable. I've bargained with demons before. And you know how to fight demons. Neither of us know what he actually is, or what he really wants, or how far his control goes when you make deals with him. We don't know how to fight him. Do you want to take that risk?"

I know I'd feel better if they could find some way to contain or eliminate him. It'd likely be a general improvement of Humaniy's psyche, I suspect.

"I… Suppose not. What demons, exactly?"

"Mammon, mostly. Though when the Host tried to kill me, most of the Lords of Hell turned up to give them a bloody nose. Oh, and Mazikeen, but she's kind of my daughter so that's really more of an exchange of late Christmas present."

Though admittedly, the Lords of Hell thing was because OL lead the angels to Hell in pursuit of him. So it was more defending against an invasion than defending an ally. And remember, Mazikeen's relation is... Complicated.

"Y-? Seriously?"

"Yes." I take out a rune stone and point it at Mr. Hayden. Looks like something we did removed the spell, but that wasn't what was keeping.. him… "Alternately, I can give you a book on Atlantean magical practice, you can improve your arcane strength until you don't need that sort of support, and then you can get a job in the rapidly expanding thaumaturgical sector." Hm. "After you are released from custody, of course."

The issue is whether Andrews would apply himself that way, given prior behaviour. Hopefully this brush with death (or at least enslavement) makes him pull his head out.

"I'm just trying to get my head around the idea of you making pacts with demons."

"Oh, not like that. It was more 'Mammon, you're the least malevolent guy down here, I'm alright with you being in charge, don't make me regret that decision'."

With an implicit 'Don't do shit that would make me come down there, because I can probably find someone more willing to play nice.' included.

"In that case, could I make a pact with you?"

"Uh, technically, you can make a pact with Ophidian the Temptress through me, but I'd need to see a record of good behaviour before I consider enabling that."

Not to mention the possibility of Orange Light contamination by using it as an energy source.

Still can't see Mr. Hayden's desires, and while his chest is moving, it's-. Completely regular.

I reach out and touch-.

Suspiciously regular, you might think?

His chest crumbles under my fingers, the membrane flaking into the nothing inside his chest. As the outer surface continues to collapse his eyes open long enough for him to glare triumphantly at me-.

And he's gone, decayed to nothing.

Bugger! Either the smiling git got away with something, or Hayden pulled a fast one somehow...

My rune stone's not glowing. And the planar jammer is… Still active.

What?

Scan whatever-. No, it's gone.

Whatever that was, it was something really exotic. Which is only more worrying.

I'll… Try and get Mr. Free to take a look, because that was an impressive escape.

"Right then. You have the right to remain silent…"

Great, some new player entering the game, or the yellow git taking back his proffered 'equipment'.

Well, a wet fizzle of a conclusion to the case there. OL can't even be sure he got those responsible for the attempted murders, so about the only thing all his prisoners can be prosecuted for is the manufacture and smuggling of a possibly-harmful mood-altering chemical treatment. Which isn't likely to come with too much jail time for most of them.

Darko · 2026-04-26T10:23:43+0100

Ngamer11 said:
How many people would want to make a pact with Ophidian the Temptress through Paul?

Well the people that Paul recruited to the OLC count.

Then there's that prince from the Gate universe.

McGraww · 2026-04-26T10:32:04+0100

Ngamer11 said:
How many people would want to make a pact with Ophidian the Temptress through Paul?

Honestly the Ophidian is a pretty good boss? There's a low risk of her betraying you which is the main problem with demon and fae contracts.

There is a risk of her turning you and everyone you love into constructs, but Paul seems to have mostly trained her to stop doing that.

Mr Zoat · 2026-04-26T10:54:54+0100

Duke Long said:
'of effect'? I've never seen 'area affect' before.
'discretion'?
'presents'?

Thank you, corrected.

I wonder if Gary's daughter will ever make an appearance. Just idly wondering because he's in this paragraph.

Given that I've forgotten about her, probably not.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Now this, this is a reference to early petroleum products for commercial sale. 'Leaded' gasoline was commonly used in early engines to reduce 'knocking', until the health impact was realised and it was banned in most uses.

Oh no. It was known at the time that it was highly dangerous to humans. The inventor had to cry off a press conference because he was in hospital due to lead exposure, but kept going anyway. I didn't pull that thing about Jay hating leaded petrol from nowhere.

The inventor is also the guy who came up with CFC-based cooling. So if you ever get a time machine, forget Hitler at get that fucker.

Duke Long · 2026-04-26T11:16:34+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Given that I've forgotten about her, probably not.

As far as I recall, the last we saw of him before this episode he was having kinky vivisex with Great Mother for the purpose of reproduction. Which also kinda makes him Lantern Son of Great Mother's step-dad in some vague and inaccurate, but mildly amusing sense.

PeriodicPedant · 2026-04-26T11:25:10+0100

Alright, now I'm confused.

Typos:

Mr Zoat said:
digression

~~discretion?~~
nm, got this one.

Mr Zoat said:
how far is control goes

his*

Signaller · 2026-04-26T11:58:44+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Along with a larger and more powerful planar shield. I don't know why it worked but I know that it did work.

Or he wants you to think it worked?

Mr Zoat said:
"Because the British government might put you in prison or set you to work, but they're not going to kill you.

Compared to the Renegade timeline, what's the current status of the British government post-Angels, Sheeda and Antilife? Roughly how many people in that group, who were cleared by Grayven in the Renegade timeline, were not cleared in the three Big Events of Paragon?

Mr Zoat said:
"That's what Boss Smiley is about, as far as I can tell. Making things just a bit worse so that he can act like he's in control. It's not like the baker has to eat the chalkies. And it's not like they'll actually kill you. Lead won't kill you either, not quickly, and making alternatives is just so expensive."

I wonder what Boss Smiley, or for that matter Grayven, would say about the lead-crime hypothesis? I know OL fixed a significant part of the mircoplastics problem, but I don't think Grayven did? And I don't think anything's been done on either side about tire particulates, though I can imagine Pamela/Euthane being able to do something about the latter in the paragon timeline?

Mr Zoat said:
"Mammon, mostly.

Is Mammon still pretending to be Satanus?

Signaller · 2026-04-26T12:06:06+0100

Mr Zoat said:
The inventor [of leaded petrol] is also the guy who came up with CFC-based cooling. So if you ever get a time machine, forget Hitler at get that fucker.

But then we wouldn't have this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4og8wG8VQWM

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