With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Signaller]

So is the memory recovery automatic, if/when there's a resolution?

What happens to one of the Greek gods if they get killed in avatar form - do they go to Hades or do they just dissolve? Who is keeping track of Persephone?

Am I suppose to forget permanently?"

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supposed

 

[Wivk]

For example: Catholics don't recognize Mormons as Christians

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If the Catholics were in any position to judge there wouldn't have ever been Protestants. Their practice of praying to dead mortals that cannot hear or help is every bit as blasphemous as any of the wacky shit Mormons get up to.

 

[Clell65619]

For example: Catholics don't recognize Mormons as Christians

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For that matter, more than a few Baptist sects (including the one my mother was neck-deep in) don't recognize Catholics as Christians.

 

[Darko]

"Ah. You understand that if you aren't able to make amends, you will be punished once you arrive here." His eyes drift to me for a moment, before returning to her. "Though if your marriage to Pavlos lasts any time, I will take that into account on the credit side of the balance

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Ha!

It's really not, its mostly just flavors of buddhism.

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I don't think Jade would mesh that well with Buddhism.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Interesting that Hades didn't drag similar answers out of someone else already. Presumably most of his underlings would give the same "You ordered me to not tell you who ordered me to keep quiet about your memory loss" answers as Paul. Did he discover it and just assume (correctly as it happens but nonetheless) that Paul had something to do with it?

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At this point the entire Hellenic pantheon would assume that shenanigans are the SI's fault. Hades wouldn't hassle an underling when he can hassle the person actually responsible. If he hadn't been responsible, Hades would have asked him to investigate.

So is the memory recovery automatic, if/when there's a resolution?

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No, they have to dose him with something else.

What happens to one of the Greek gods if they get killed in avatar form - do they go to Hades or do they just dissolve?

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Depends on how killed they get-. Wait, do you mean Erebos? If you mean Erebos, then no.

Who is keeping track of Persephone?

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Her mother and handmaidens.

supposed

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Darko]

What happens to one of the Greek gods if they get killed in avatar form - do they go to Hades or do they just dissolve

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I think the SI once mentioned that if a god is killed in avatar form then their greater self will still be intact, but there are ways that the greater self can be killed if the avatar is killed.

 

[Jankl]

I think the SI once mentioned that if a god is killed in avatar form then their greater self will still be intact, but there are ways that the greater self can be killed if the avatar is killed.

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So if say Eris is killed in Earth by let's say a very big bomb. Her greater self would be okay? What even is their greater self? I thought Greek gods could go to Earth but that they would be weaker there depending on how much worship they get.

 

[Darko]

So if say Eris is killed in Earth by let's say a very big bomb. Her greater self would be okay? What even is their greater self? I thought Greek gods could go to Earth but that they would be weaker there depending on how much worship they get.

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According to the metaphysics that Zoat established, gods that emerge from the Dreaming need prayer to survive, but the Olympians, and some other pantheons, can utilize Titans as a power source.

The Titans are apparently so connected to human psychology and mentalities, that even if they're not worshipped, they still have power, so the Olympians use that to sustain themselves.

Their lack of worshippers has at best only mildly weakened them, but the area in which it has impacted them is in the fact that it's more difficult to actually use their power in the material universe.

Things that were once easy will now require actual effort, but they can still be accomplished.

Think of it like a person only being able to do something by putting their hand through an almost closed door without being able to fully open the door.

The person is physically strong, but they can't open the door.

Gods in this setting can create avatars in order to interact with being in the material universe, but these avatars will be weaker than the greater whole, and the likes of a powerful archmage or metahuman could rival or surpass them in that area.

They can manifest their full power in the material universe, but that would require rituals.

 

[Neruz]

What you're not mentioning here is that most of the folk religions are just alternate flavors of buddhism.

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No, no they are not. They often bring together Buddhist elements, but the worship of the local land gods or "thần" and the shamanism of Đạo Mẫu is very much not just an alternate flavor of Buddhism.

You are probably thinking of Cao Đài, which combines worship of the thần with Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism, as well as elements of Catholicism, Spiritism and Theosophy. But calling such a widely syncretic religion "an alternate flavor of Buddhism" is absurd, and is like trying to say that a cake is really just an alternate flavor of flour.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

If you know "I've agreed to erase my memory so that I can properly court/be courted", that is going to make the entire thing utterly pointless, because if you're aware of it then you're aware there was something to erase that needed to be erased for the thing you want to have happen to happen.

They probably didn't think about what would happen if Hades started poking around in the temporarily-altered records because it never occured to anyone that he would have any reason to, say, look up Melinoë's birth records.

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Or he bothers to go crack a mortal book on events and reads his own mythology, and finds out he's married and how.

 

[Darko]

Or he bothers to go crack a mortal book on events and reads his own mythology, and finds out he's married and how.

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He might not believe that.

What mortals think happened and what actually happened could be very, very different.

Myths have a habit of changing.

 

[McGraww]

If you know "I've agreed to erase my memory so that I can properly court/be courted", that is going to make the entire thing utterly pointless, because if you're aware of it then you're aware there was something to erase that needed to be erased for the thing you want to have happen to happen.

They probably didn't think about what would happen if Hades started poking around in the temporarily-altered records because it never occured to anyone that he would have any reason to, say, look up Melinoë's birth records.

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Telling them why they agreed to by mind wiped would probably mess up the experiment, but they probably should have, idk, had Hades write himself a letter, sealed with his godly power, in case he does ever get curious.

The problem is that Hades relationship with Persephone has multiple butterflies. Multiple children (he could've gotten curious about any of them) are just the first failure point. There are going to be other discrepancies between "real history" and "history if Hades and Persephone aren't married yet" (AKA the version of events Hades is experiencing post-mind wipe).

 

[Ardy]

I'm still curious about the school Paul's going to, apparently.

It could be less bad than Shayera implied tho, like Batman could officially request the OLC/NEMO open a school on earth, with reconstruction being the focus of the training and earth's destroyed society as the practice

 

[Mr Zoat]

According to the metaphysics that Zoat established, gods that emerge from the Dreaming need prayer to survive, but the Olympians, and some other pantheons, can utilize Titans as a power source.

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That is not at all what I did. I said repeatedly that they didn't need worship to survive, just to interact easily with the world. Anyone can use a titan as a power source, the Olympians just aren't sharing.

 

[Jankl]

That is not at all what I did. I said repeatedly that they didn't need worship to survive, just to interact easily with the world. Anyone can use a titan as a power source, the Olympians just aren't sharing.

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Thanks for the info Mr Zoat. I assume the rest of what he said is correct?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Thanks for the info Mr Zoat. I assume the rest of what he said is correct?

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Approximately.

 

[Darko]

That is not at all what I did. I said repeatedly that they didn't need worship to survive, just to interact easily with the world. Anyone can use a titan as a power source, the Olympians just aren't sharing.

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But there have been multiple instances where gods have been stated to fade, like in Otherworld, Bastet telling Paul and his traveling companions that Teth's actions have given her power back to repair her city, that faded travel god whose blood was bought in that magical market etc.

The Olympians might be work shy, but they don't have the same need to take advantage of their brief moment of fame to secure their metaphysiques and make themselves into something that Johnny-come-latelies do.

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"Even the Dream Lord could not move an entire nation into his realm without leaving echoes. The Sumerian gods use that connection to sustain themselves, and they are not above leasing it for the use of others when if profits them."

"Why do they need to do that?"

"Our spheres decay without something to bind us to the material world. Or if we can use titanic levels of power to sustain them. I don't have that power, and neither do they."

So… Why..?

"Is it the Cornwalls? Are they what keeps Otherworld alive?"

"No. That helps, but it isn't enough power. Likewise with the small groups of people who still worship me. We are sustained by a great piece of-"

"King Kon-Sten-Tyn."

"-enchantment. Yes." He flashes me an inquisitive glance. "How do you know of it?"

"I'm friends with his current heir. Who I can only assume is descended from a daughter. He did something to corrupt the establishment of the Christian religion in England, didn't he?"

"Yes. Basically. It was more to ensure that they could not forget about what came before than anything direct, and the ley line network provides us power as well, but without his work we would probably have faded by now

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"Bubastis is a decaying realm. All the glory it once held is reduced to ruins and vague traces of power. And not all of its people like being dead."

Kon and I exchange a glance.

"So… When was the last time you were there?"

"Some time ago. It's hard to keep track here."

"And how much worship would a place like that need in order to regain something of itself?"

"This is like the time that Graham explained what trains are. Has something happened that would have revitalised Bubastis?"

I nod. "Teth Adom returned to life. He rules modern Kahndaq, and he openly worships its old pantheon. I wouldn't say… That the people have abandoned Islam, but… The old religion is… On their minds more than it used to be

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"I am glad to see that you're well. I wasn't sure exactly what effect restoring Adom would have on the domain of the Kahndaqi gods, but it looks like a positive one."

"It has been." She looks out towards the rest of the city. "We have not quite been fully restored as yet, but as more people reach out to their older gods, that will come in time

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skilled magician would could manage the connection?"

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"who could"