With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[iamnuff]

Considering the deforesting isn't being run sustainably or viable long term, pretty sure 'fuck the (stories fictional) Brazilian government' is the right side here.

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Not really sure how the continuation of a nonsustanable deforestation program is being weighed as a greater ill than the deaths of tens of millions of people, but ok.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Corrections:
This is not an illegal operation.
"Supposed to stop things like that?"
...as the crowd disperses.
...racially inferior to Aryans,

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Thank you, corrected.

I too refrain from killing people every day. I'm a hero.

That's not sarcasm. I actually am a hero, and I agree with your response. Still not sarcasm.

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And yet...

also, the issues with purebreeds are...well.... look at the health issues a lot of purebreed dogs are prone to- or the ..... issues with inbreeding that started spiking the chances for european monarchs to be infertile/insane/hemophiliac...

....
why HASN'T OL bought up the long-term issue of inbreeding and genetic decay with monocultures/heavily restricted pairing before now? i mean- the Romanov's predilection towards Hemophilia was directly responsible (or at least a major contributor- long story involving politics, and Rasputin having the dumb luck to be nearby when the Tsar's son spontaneously stopped bleeding, which he cheerfully milked for political influence, and people getting nervous about some random, questionably sane guy talking with the Tsarina all day long) for Tsarist Russia falling apart-or at the a contributor to its decline

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Don't tell the National Socialists this, but there's actually plenty of genetic variation in Western Europe.

Ah, Mr Zoat, I just remembered to ask, does Paul have any plans in the works to help Akhlys out?

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Yes, but it's a very long term one.

He didn't get one because it was Russia it would have gone into. They don't approve of not killing folk. They still adore Stalin.

I'm in Australia, we're quite positive on the not killing folk front. Therefore I deserve a statue.

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Yeah, I mean, the one time your government committed genocide it was by mass child abduction. It's like you're not even trying.

 

[Darko]

Yeah.. Australia is a really disturbing country when you take away the great accent.

 

[Steelplaza]

I think the one thing you can actually pin on Orange Lantern here is dropping Hugo Danner back into the mix. That's his contribution to this mess, for good or for ill. Yes the Accala and associated tribes were going to do what they do regardless, but Danner is still a venerated person among them and he's probably going to have some swing on the final result. Otherwise Danner would have stayed in his LexCorp laboratory and wouldn't have heard about it until things already started going down, and even then perhaps he would have been afraid of attempting to intervene due to past mistakes. But OL dropped Danner back into the middle of things and it was all too easy to fall back into his old role like he never left.

It has yet to be seen if Danner will be a positive or negative influence on the result.

 

[earlyriser]

I wonder how this situation will resolve itself in Renegadeverse?

Renegade has a potential kryptonian clone army brewing, and with Lex's interest now going towards space exploration and re-examining his paranoia it seems he will not discover the Accala tribe (or free Hugo) in order to counteract that. I would assume in canon verse that either Ras or Kobra would co-opt the tribes for expendable muscle in exchange for a safe haven to conduct their operations. It's possible a couple years down the line there is either an alien invasion or someone tries to invade Brazil and then Earth learns there is a whole community of Supers that were secret.

 

[SIDoragon]

I really like Overgirl. I hope she sticks around for a long time.

 

[Scholar of Time]

Congratulations Paul, you just failed at preventing hundreds of thousands of people dying.

And all but guaranteed a number of countries are going to develop chemical and biological weaponry so the same sort of thing can never happen to them.

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In other words, realism.

 

[jonasquinn]

While I agree that at the moment there's nothing OL can do and until it actually escalates to violence he can't interfere but there being no "right side" is kind of bullshit, if Brazil wins then things keep going as they have been which while not great isn't catastrophic and steps could be taken to minimise the fallout of it, if the tribes win it results in the biggest humanitarian crisis in human history

 

[Vaermina]

Good on you getting your government mindlessly slaughtered like that. Didn't think you'd have it in you.

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Except not because they are all dead.

From now on, no-one with a grudge against the government will bother attempting to negotiate. Better to just unleash hell without warning, or thoughts to civilian casualties.

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They didn't try to negotiate, they issued an ultimatum.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Pfft. Mongrels are better than any purebreed. They're also more adorable, and deserve more love. They might be unpredictable compared to some inbred pure breed, but that just means you need to take the time to get to know them.

Also, making them stay outside, instead of under the blankets in your bed is a horrible idea. Just check them for ticks and fleas every so often.

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Thank you, please do not leave me outside.

Also, I'm a bit lost on pauls justification for not intervening here, doesn't this basically mean any supervillain need merely declare himself in open revolt against the state for no league member to have the legal authority to stop them? why did Shazam, paul and co stop the demonic invasion that was an act of war and beyond their charter?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Thank you, please do not leave me outside.

Also, I'm a bit lost on Paul's justification for not intervening here, doesn't this basically mean any supervillain need merely declare himself in open revolt against the state for no league member to have the legal authority to stop them? why did Captain Marvel, Paul and co stop the demonic invasion that was an act of war and beyond their charter?

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The demons weren't Americans and no wrong had been done to them by Americans.

Most supervillains don't have a wider political agenda. The few that do mostly have one along the lines of 'I should be boss of the universe'. They don't have wider support, and usually the state they are attacking isn't that bad.

Take for example the succession of the Confederate States of America. The SI would look at that and go, 'you're literally just rebelling because you aren't allowed to kidnap and enslave people. Intervene.'

Now compare that to Worm, where the Elite only became a criminal organisation because the US government passed a law making the commercial use of parahuman abilities illegal because they were bribed. 'It's you own fault. No intervention.'

A state that wants superhero support may reasonably expect to be held to a higher standard of behaviour than one which just wants to be left alone.

 

[Ganurath]

Now compare that to Worm, where the Elite only became a criminal organisation because the US government passed a law making the commercial use of parahuman abilities illegal because they were bribed. 'It's you own fault. No intervention.'

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Fines and fees, actually, and the reason they passed it may have more to do with the members of Uppermost (the group NEPEA-5 seemed to target most aggressively) who joined the government's parahuman crime fighting organization to avoid the debts that said fees inflicted. There was no mention of bribes relating to NEPEA-5 in any canon or WoG.

I'm guessing a soft power press-gang would get a similar response, though?

 

[Bramble Thorn]

Not really sure how the continuation of a nonsustanable deforestation program is being weighed as a greater ill than the deaths of tens of millions of people, but ok.

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When you can show me the tens of millions of people the tribalists have actually killed, then we can talk. Until then, this is just you pulling a Vaermina and inserting facts from your headcanon that haven't actually happened in the story into your diatribes.

Don't be a Vaermina.
Nobody likes a Vaermina.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

The demons weren't Americans and no wrong had been done to them by Americans.

Most supervillains don't have a wider political agenda. The few that do mostly have one along the lines of 'I should be boss of the universe'. They don't have wider support, and usually, the state they are attacking isn't that bad.

Take for example the succession of the Confederate States of America. The SI would look at that and go, 'you're literally just rebelling because you aren't allowed to kidnap and enslave people. Intervene.'

Now compare that to Worm, where the Elite only became a criminal organisation because the US government passed a law making the commercial use of parahuman abilities illegal because they were bribed. 'It's your own fault. No intervention.'

A state that wants superhero support may reasonably expect to be held to a higher standard of behaviour than one which just wants to be left alone.

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I'm sure some members of the American magic/exorcist community had been taking actions against members of the demonic community Blue devil and ambrose pierce come to mind (although they weren't state actors).

Ignoring the plight of tribesmen that they thought died of sickness after a failed coup is amoral at best, (although Paul could conceivably have other objections to THIS REPRESENTATION OF A south American government IN THE DC COMICS UNIVERSE)

...

Unless it's that ignoring the plight of a population of genetically engineers super tribesmen is what is seen as sufficiently immoral or 'it's their own fault at that point?'

 

[RichardWhereat]

Yeah, I mean, the one time your government committed genocide it was by mass child abduction. It's like you're not even trying.

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Yeah, and that was just lazy continuation of British child protection policy. Nothing at all like the ambitious shoulder to shoulder march across Tasmania for the genocide of aboriginals there.

Thank you, please do not leave me outside.

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You're welcome, you can crawl under the sheets.

 

[PDV]

Why would they come in on the tribal side, if hypothetically the league doesn't help brazil claiming it's a civil war well... there are civil wars going on that use chemical weapons that the league don't involve themselves in. (IK napalm is different from chemical weapons but I don't really see the difference in this context)

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"Yes, and if the Accala try killing civilians or the government starts trying to nuke the Amazon, they'll step in. But as things stand there's no obvious reason to pick one side over the other. And in either case our work here is done."

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Told you.

 

[Coda]

lumbered

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I see what you did there.

Brasilian government

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Brazilian (unless he's trying to distinguish between "the government of Brazil" and "the government in Brasilia" which could potentially be meaningful, but it's spelled the usual way the next time he says it)

I still find it funny how Nazis see interbreeding as worse than actual different ethnic group.

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I would imagine it's probably worse to be an Aryan woman consenting to bear the child of a non-Aryan man than it would be to be an Aryan man introducing superior genes into a non-Aryan population.

 

[jonasquinn]

When you can show me the tens of millions of people the tribalists have actually killed, then we can talk. Until then, this is just you pulling a Vaermina and inserting facts from your headcanon that haven't actually happened in the story into your diatribes.

Don't be a Vaermina.
Nobody likes a Vaermina.

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I mean the tribes have actively admitted that they want to force hundreds of millions of people from their homes if they aren't willing to live in their new jungle tribe society

Between the amount of people that tend to die when their are outpourings of migration from war torn areas and the ones who would stay behind and starve to death or be killed by some other aspect of living in a jungle that they aren't even remotely prepared for there are almost guaranteed to be a shit ton of deaths if the tribals win

 

[Mr Zoat]

Brazilian (unless he's trying to distinguish between "the government of Brazil" and "the government in Brasilia" which could potentially be meaningful, but it's spelled the usual way the next time he says it)

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Thank you, corrected.

I would imagine it's probably worse to be an Aryan woman consenting to bear the child of a non-Aryan man than it would be to be an Aryan man introducing superior genes into a non-Aryan population.

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No, just easier to ignore.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Told you.

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Yh ya did, although it seems inconsistent... Maybe nukes are seen a different to poison gas?

 

[iamnuff]

When you can show me the tens of millions of people the tribalists have actually killed, then we can talk. Until then, this is just you pulling a Vaermina and inserting facts from your headcanon that haven't actually happened in the story into your diatribes.

Don't be a Vaermina.
Nobody likes a Vaermina.

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Right, because destroying the Infrastructure across basically half a continent isn't going to result in mass casualties via starvation, lack of communications, transport and lack of medicine, and we cant possibly predict the scope of damage that a course of action will cause until we actually go through with it.

Don't be stupid, you can't relocate, what? Five countries worth of people or force them to live in a jungle with no resources without causing millions of deaths.

 

[BlueMangoAdea]

Right, because destroying the Infrastructure across basically half a continent isn't going to result in mass casualties via starvation, lack of communications, transport and lack of medicine, and we cant possibly predict the scope of damage that a course of action will cause until we actually go through with it.

Don't be stupid, you can't relocate, what? Five countries worth of people or force them to live in a jungle with no resources without causing millions of deaths.

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Unless you have Lanterns.

 

[iamnuff]

Unless you have Lanterns.

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Where would they put them?

Also, i don't think Paul would be invested enough to move more than a couple of thousand people. Be easier to move the tribals, cuz there's like a million times fewer of them. Dump em into another dimension or something, lol.

 

[Mr Zoat]

18th March
17:41 GMT -5

"Recognized, Orange Lantern, B zero six."

No civil war today, at least.

The Accala weren't exactly impressed by the government's first offer, but they didn't dismiss it out of hand either. Diana was hopeful that they'd eventually be able to reach some kind of settlement and I could see how much Hugo wanted one. I hadn't realised exactly how poor the soil in the Amazon was until he delivered an off the cuff lecture on the subject. The Accala themselves aren't experts on jungle management; they may have been a few generations ago but they haven't been able to use those skills since the putsch and they've sort of fallen out of the collective consciousness. But some of the tribes they've had dealings with do and they're willing to learn if that's what it takes.

I walk across the hangar -no bioship yet- and head up the steps to the kitchen. Of course, the best thing to do would be to recruit the entire tribe into the.. jungle rangers, or whatever the Brazilians call them. Make them part of a federal law enforcement body so that they can enforce the current laws, and pass a piece of legislation recognising the tribal lands as actually belonging to the tribes. But I doubt that the Accala want to be bound to an institution that they hate and I doubt that the government want to invite in people who just metaphorically cattle prodded them in the genitals.

"…complain about, but I had thought there would be more fighting."

I can hear Garth through the door, and I suppose that's a fair observation. He was stuck at the logging camp trying magic he didn't know and waiting for something to happen.

As I walk through the door I see Beryl flash him a grin.

"You could always go and visit the Accala if you wanted. They'd probably be happy to spar with you. Or the Brazilians. Their soldiers need lots of experience fighting metahumans."

"Reports all done?"

Garth nods while Beryl shrugs.

"Sure, but I'm pretty sure that Batman's already getting on top of this one."

"…rises at four o'clock…"

Angelika enters the kitchen area from the other side, Wallace helping her with the bags. He nods as he sees me.

"Hey, Oh El. South America still in one piece?"

"For now."

He and Angelika put their bags on the table and Angelika starts rooting through them. She notices me watching and smiles.

"Kid Flash said that Central City had good German food stores and I was inspired. I thought that I would cook today?"

I shrug. "Fine with me. Should be an interesting change of pace."

She smiles and pulls out a bag of.. some sort of pasta balls. "Ideally, this would all be made from scratch, but this is all good quality. Perhaps, tomorrow, I could do something more involved?"

Ah… Is..? I don't think there's anyone on the team who would point blank refuse to eat something she cooked, and.. she.. hasn't refused to have anything to do with the non-Caucasian members of the team. I had planned on us visiting a high crime city and making it a low crime city, but I suppose that we can settle for medium crime.

"I'm sure that-" Whose turn-? Oh.. gosh yes. "-Canis won't mind skipping his turn."

Apokoliptian food culture doesn't do much to recommend the place. Though he has backed away from his initial idea of having an elimination tournament for would-be diners to prove that they are worthy of being fed, his… Ideas about flavour and texture combinations would make Heston Blumenthal say 'that's a bit out there'.

Scott Free said that it's better than Barda's efforts, but he has fairly low standards.

I look around as Angelika begins to pull out roasting tins.

"Raquel not here?"

"No." Wallace flops down on the settee. "She wanted to talk to Icon about the whole 'natives versus settlers' thing."

I nod. I suppose he was around while that was still a significant political issue in America.

"How was Russia?"

"I… Don't know..?" I frown, and he shakes his head. "I mean, the mission went… Fine. We found Christina, she'd joined this… Cult…"

I walk through the kitchen and sit down across from him.

"What sort of cult?"

"They.. kinda.. worship this guy called Savitar."

I nod. "The Hindu deity?"

"No, a metahuman with superspeed who named himself after the god. Or wants to be the god. But I think we might have got played by the Russians."

"How?"

He shuffles in his seat slightly. "We found Savitar's cult-. One of his cults, and the leader could use full on superspeed. I think he was the guy from that Russian army base, the one who got away." I nod. "They had some kind of mystic energy transfer thing. They put it on Christina to give their guys enhanced speed. Not full superspeed, but they did a number on the soldiers the Russians sent with us."

"Did they get away?"

"No, once I talked Christina down their speed vanished right away. But the problem is that we found out there's a whole bunch more places like that and some of the cultists have super speed. So now the Russians want to make more speedsters."

"Which they could do anyway." He looks dubious. "Couldn't they?"

"Yeeeeeaaaagh… They could, but they never got the full formula from Jay Garrick and they haven't done much testing to try and fix what they did get."

I take a moment to remember my own early experiments with it. Also, poor Speedy.

"So they want the full formula?"

He nods. "And any work we've done with it since. And, yeah, they say they're not gunna use it to make a super speed army, and… They probably won't, because they didn't do that when Stalin was running the place and he wasn't exactly averse to human experimentation. But if we give it to the Russians… Why aren't we giving it to anyone else?"

"How about just agreeing to give a dose to a certain number of applicants?"

"Yeah, but they could probably reverse engineer it from their blood."

"Why not give them the Blitzen formula instead?"

We both look around, Wallace craning his neck slightly to look over the back of the settee. "Huh?"

Angelika keeps putting mustard on some raw meat.

"Aunty Geri's.. friend, Blitzen. She developed a formula which gives enhanced speed to the person who takes it. It does not make her so fast as the Flash, but it makes her faster than a normal person. If these cultists do not have the same level of speed as the Flash, then the Russians do not need the same level of speed."

"Huh." Wallace frowns. "Could they reverse engineer it from their blood?"

"I do not think so. You could ask her."

"Yeah, I will."

"Shame there isn't a short term version of the formula, really."

"Yeeeeahh…" Wallace looks thoughtful. "Ac.. tually…" He gets off the settee. "I.. think I know how to make one."

 

[Prince Charon]

"Yeeeeahh…" Wallace looks thoughtful. "Ac.. tually…" He gets off the settee. "I.. think I know how to make one."

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Ah. Good to see more of KF using his skills in alchemy.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

"So they want the full formula?"

He nods. "And any work we've done with it since.

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And why do they think they can make such demands upon a team they don't control?

 

[Mr Zoat]

And why do they think they can make such demands upon a team they don't control?

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No demand. But they do have an actual supervillain problem and it's not unreasonable that the League help them deal with it. Superspeed is very hard to counter with anything other than superspeed.

 

[Flux Casey]

"Shame there isn't a short term version of the formula, really."

"Yeeeeahh…" Wallace looks thoughtful. "Ac.. tually…" He gets off the settee. "I.. think I know how to make one."

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Oh, so now there's going to be a speed version of venom. Call it 'spite'.

 

[Prince Charon]

And why do they think they can make such demands upon a team they don't control?

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Well, Russia is part of the UN Security Council, and the Justice League, which employs The Team, is a UN-sponsored organization... plus, it's Russia, so them making demands of people they have no right to expect to follow said demands is plausible.

No demand. But they do have an actual supervillain problem and it's not unreasonable that the League help them deal with it. Superspeed is very hard to counter with anything other than superspeed.

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Also this.

 

[w34v3r]

Oh, so now there's going to be a speed version of venom. Call it 'spite'.

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Isn't that just the velocity series?