With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Agent Orange]

Island in the Sea of Time by S M Sterling.

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Plenty of asymmetric warfare sure but no fights against magic users, only primitives?
Did you read some AU version of ISOT? If so, gimme!

 

[OrigamiPhoenix]

That bit was terrible in both the manga and the anime.

Three major powers getting soldiers into Japan is perfectly possible. America has more soldiers than that just in its embassy. I could accept that dug-in Japanese special forces would have a very good kill-death ratio against small squads of attackers. Nor so sure about those attackers pressing the attack and clearly having no real idea what they were doing, but okay.

But what the heck were they doing there? I mean, if Rory hadn't been around and they reached their objective what exactly would have happened? They'd have captured a couple of Saderans. And... Profit? The people they would have captured would have no special bypass to get back home. The people holding them would have no access to the gate. They'd just be left holding proof that they committed an act of war.

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It would have meant information about the other-world that wasn't being fed to them by the Japanese government. It's been a while, but I think that at that point there wasn't a lot of information being shared about the other-world even between the major powers.
They could have also been bargaining chips (through proxies where the government responsible could never been officially implicated, even if they were under suspicion), as their kidnapping would've resulted in a breakdown in relations with the Saderan Empire and a major loss of face for Japan.

A lot of this was half-stated through the dialogue of political douchery from the parties responible, if my memory isn't failing me. I honestly don't know how much credit to give the author in this case.

 

[Impartial Panic]

I'm guessing Hardy and Emroy have issues with the "God of Ambition"? I wonder what he did....

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Wouldn't take much to piss them off.
IIRC they are rather upset with Lelei in the novels.
something about how she's using scientific knowledge from earth to boost her magic.

given Paul's tendency to try and uplift civilizations the gods decided to step in.
The arrival of the JDSF is really going to rain on their parade especially if Diablo is tapped early.

We are told this is 100% fatal with no chance of surviving.

Lelei survives.

No reason is given and no special effort is made by the characters to make this happen. She just does.

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She's a wizard she ain't got to explain shi...oh wait the whole point of her power boost is that she is explaining it.

pity paul didn't manage to deal with Prince idiot before the bunny girl massacre
would have kept one of the worst antagonists from having her one bad day event.

But what the heck were they doing there? I mean, if Rory hadn't been around and they reached their objective what exactly would have happened?

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well besides recovering people captured in the gate slave raid on ginza Japan is trying to use the gate as a means to access resources.
IIRC they made a mining deal with one of the captured kings from the second battle of Alnus hill.
Japan is trying to use the gate to become less dependent on trade and more resource secure.

the great powers want a piece of that pie, a fresh world to strip mine or if all else fails
a safe harbor to evacuate to in case of WW3

 

[Darko]

So many years and I can still laugh about it. I'd known that gods generally couldn't manifest their full power in the material universe without a vast array of preparations but I didn't realise before I came through their oversized dolmen gate that by local standards I had reached that standard. And I couldn't do what Zeus did and create an avatar for myself because it doesn't work like that here. I'm still not sure whether it was intentional or a pure fluke on their part.

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So did Paul get his body automatically destroyed when he came through because he can now qualify as a god due to his powerful soul and when he entered the universe its natural magical laws took over and destroyed his body?

 

[Gilhelmi]

Well, darn you Mr. Zoat.

After looking up the setting, I now have another book series that I need to read. This one looks really interesting to, I always loved Stargate.

Edit/PS: I just found the 24 episode Anime on VRV. I know what I am binge watching next.

 

[Mr Zoat]

the great powers want a piece of that pie, a fresh world to strip mine or if all else fails
a safe harbor to evacuate to in case of WW3

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But the only way they can do that is with Japanese cooperation, because whoever they capture the gate is still in Japan.

So did Paul get his body automatically destroyed when he came through because he can now qualify as a god due to his powerful soul and when he entered the universe its natural magical laws took over and destroyed his body?

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Involuntary transubstantiation.

Well, darn you Mr. Zoat.

After looking up the setting, I now have another book series that I need to read. This one looks really interesting to, I always loved Stargate.

Edit/PS: I just found the 24 episode Anime on VRV. I know what I am binge watching next.

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Don't feel obliged to do that. It's not good.

 

[Pinklestia]

The most SoD breaking part of the series is that US, China, Russia and the other big boys would just let Japan control access to an entire new planet in exchange for... mining rights? Really? You find out there's an entire world with actual gods and magic (as unimpressive as it is) and your ambition ends with 'let's mine it for oil'. Right.

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Is a racist series done by a Japanese ultranacionalist. It got to the point the Anime had to tone many things down because it basically had the asshole Japanese from Code Geass... as the good guys.

Just like the Boys, is a work of hate and an Author's track.

 

[MagnumForce]

A year and eight months later, I am caught up again. Huh.

And first thing that happens is I run into GATE of all fucking things, but I am sure Mr Zoat can do the series better than the series can, admittedly not too hard.

 

[Mr Zoat]

A year and eight months later, I am caught up again. Huh.

And first thing that happens is I run into GATE of all fucking things, but I am sure Mr Zoat can do the series better than the series can, admittedly not too hard.

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I could, but I'd have to rewrite the whole thing and it wouldn't really be Gate any more. This is god-future-SI in canon-Gate, not new and improved Gate.

This is alright if you want a fixed Gate. The only have to fight post-civil war America, and the princes are apostles. There's also this, where Tanya gets reborn into the Empire after getting shoved in front of a train again.

 

[Vaermina]

So is there a point to this random future version of Paul?

 

[DrThoth]

So from the new episode title, this is presumably the Renegade arc where we find out the origins of the Sheeda, and probably the last time we'll see them in play during the story; I guess this is the end of 'season 4' of With This Ring, then.

Cursory Googling doesn't help me out with remembering the terminology, so I'd just like to request some clarification; at this point in the Earth-16 timeline it's the Land of Spring, and the Sheeda come from the Land of Summer's End, but there's also a Land of Autumn or something?

This appears to be the main OL actually. When the whole Ambush Bug thing happened, OL not only saw alternate versions of himself, but his own personal future.

It's why we know Paragon will eventually travel to Wilson and recruit Nightmare Moon into the orange lantern corp. It's why we know the main version of OL that we're following will meet Prince Zuko from Avatar and help Azula's mental state recover, and how we know he will mentor Tai Lung from Kung Fu Panda and help him see the error of his ways.

This appears to be the main Paragon OL just in the far future when he starts exploring non-DC universes.

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Actually how does the timeline work regarding the MLP stuff, since on Renegade's side things are way in the future. Or does Starswirl's Mirror also cross time as well as space/dimensions?

 

[Agent Orange]

Actually how does the timeline work regarding the MLP stuff

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It's been asked many times, the answer boils down to: The Wizard Ambush Bug Did It.
OL's visit to Wilson takes place before Grayven's even if it's happening centuries after Grayven's chronologically. Hypertime wooo!

 

[Darko]

So from the new episode title, this is presumably the Renegade arc where we find out the origins of the Sheeda, and probably the last time we'll see them in play during the story; I guess this is the end of 'season 4' of With This Ring, then.

Cursory Googling doesn't help me out with remembering the terminology, so I'd just like to request some clarification; at this point in the Earth-16 timeline it's the Land of Spring, and the Sheeda come from the Land of Summer's End, but there's also a Land of Autumn or something?



Actually how does the timeline work regarding the MLP stuff, since on Renegade's side things are way in the future. Or does Starswirl's Mirror also cross time as well as space/dimensions?

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I think in the story there are only the Land of Spring, which I'm guessing is pre Sheeda time, and the Land of Summers End, which is the Sheeda time.

As for the MLP thing there were other differences, like Luna and Celestia being 8000 years old while in the chapters in the renegade side Celestia is just over a thousand years old.

That version of Wilson may have been set in a DC universe, since Karna, a planet in Vega, was mentioned as existing there.

 

[Agent Orange]

That version of Wilson may have been set in a DC universe, since Karna, a planet in Vega, was mentioned as existing there.

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Or Old Man OL just seamlessly Planeshifted them from MLP to DC just to make a point and make his recruitment pitch better.

 

[GhostKing 666]

I can't remember where I picked this up, but I remember something about Gates normally being temporary and short lived. When establishing a foot hold in the fantasy world the JSDF accidentally set up their defenses in a geometric shape which coincidentally acted as an enormous magical formation that kept the Gate open indefinitely.

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Nah that was the Empire. The army that first went through the Gate had its wizards mess with said Gate so that they could get more plundering time. Problem was, they really didn't know what they were doing, Gates are not supposed to stay open that long and it was causing problems for both Earth and Falmart.

Oh, yes, Gate is a bad series. No argument. In theory an a-symmetric conflict between modern weapons and magic users could be interesting. What we got was an effortless stomp by a modern army against Roman legions with some heavy cavalry. No magic, no monsters worth anything and no demigods. And it didn't even handle the Japanese politics end of things very well!

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A better series is called Nihonkoku Shoukan or Japan Summoned. Japan still dominated at first, but that was because it appeared in a part of the world full of backwater nations, the more advanced and powerful nations are around WWII level(with some via magitech), and have a lot bigger militaries then Japan and the biggest long term issue is the coming return of an old evil magitech empire that was better then modern Earth in some areas, worse in others.

Wouldn't take much to piss them off.
IIRC they are rather upset with Lelei in the novels.
something about how she's using scientific knowledge from earth to boost her magic.

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The way magic works(well human magic, elves and sirens use something called spirit magic that works differently)in Gate is that mages use magic to interfere with and manipulate natural properties and phenomena, and because Falmart mages have at best either a late medieval/early renaissance understanding of said natural properties/phenomena, their magic tends to be very energy inefficient and not as powerful as it could be.

How much more powerful could they get? Leilei basically made herself into the youngest archmage in history just by studying the basics of how combustion and explosions work as well as Newtonian motion. And while she's still not at the level where she could destroy a tank or meaningfully impact a modern battlefield yet, genius or not, she's only had a few weeks of study at most and is only scratching the tip of the possible iceberg.

If someone were teach a mage how light and photons work, well then you've got an invisible mage capable of shooting IR to Gamma Ray lasers at things they don't like. Or teach a mage atomic physics and the fun they can have with radiation or conjuring up antimatter.

 

[Dur'id the Druid]

Plenty of asymmetric warfare sure but no fights against magic users, only primitives?
Did you read some AU version of ISOT? If so, gimme!

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Heh, an entire island city and battleship of late 19th century tech in a world just starting the bronze age. Might as well be magic. And it is the honest cross culture that is really interesting. From the human sacrificing panther cult in South America, to that emperor's reaction to getting overthrown by the greedy American making his own country. And the alliance with early Vikings and Druid/celts. All of it is a great story of high-tech/magic interacting with low-tech cultures.

Yes, more alternative history than Si-Fi/Fantasy, but the themes are very simlair, and much more thought put into it than GATE.

 

[Doccer]

Is this that Japanese Self Defense Force and the Gate anime?

 

[Assblaster5000]

Is this that Japanese Self Defense Force and the Gate anime?

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It is, yes.

 

[Doccer]

It is, yes.

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Thx I should have read the comments b4 I posted. It's gonna be awesome watching this story line.

 

[0zymandias]

Now I'm imagining Paul in the Salvation War being annoyed at both how horrible Hell is and how unbearably smug all the humans are

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I think depending on when he comes in he'd be viewed as some techno messiah and have a humanist cult form around him. To be honest considering how easy the Salvation War was it's kinda understandable how snug they were

 

[Coda]

it's people wealthier

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its

in the senate; to concentrate power

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comma instead of semicolon (your other semicolons are good)

In this situation is was because Hardy, the local underworld goddess, thought that the Empire was getting a bit too arrogant and needed to be humbled, and so opened the Gate to a more advanced world(Japan, Earth) in order to humble them,

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Oh, is THAT what happened. I didn't get that far into the manga because the fan translation I was reading stopped updating after a while, and when it got picked up by another group I never got around to trying to catch up.

 

[Gilhelmi]

Don't feel obliged to do that. It's not good.

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As a former soldier, I am rather enjoying the Anime. It has a decent dub even. I have been watching it all day.

It's rather nice seeing a non-American show doing the whole "Japan, Fuck YEAH"

EDIT: The ending was a bit on the weak side. But I am used to disappointing endings, and it was not terrible.

 

[Yog]

But the only way they can do that is with Japanese cooperation, because whoever they capture the gate is still in Japan.

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Great powers absolutely have enough leverage, political, economic and otherwise to make the Gate an international venture.

 

[Vaermina]

Great powers absolutely have enough leverage, political, economic and otherwise to make the Gate an international venture.

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Pretty much, even just the US alone could have done it.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Late Summer, IC 687

"Are these your people, divinity?"

I feel a pang of regret that I don't have a head to shake at Daniel's question. Of course, I'm just as capable of taking a host as any of the local divines. There aren't many situations in which I'd kill a devotee to do it, but it wouldn't be hard to arrange to have someone snatched from the gallows. I could even make a payment to their family. But… No. The road of pure utility wasn't for me when I attained enlightenment, and it isn't now.

"It is unlikely, though not impossible. If it were my people I rather imagine that a Lantern would be here already."

Daniel originally came to Sadera as a refugee, and came to my temple in search of alms. I personally spoke to him because I wanted to get a worm's eye view of the state of the Empire, and he took that as a Sign. I'm not sure that he completely understands all of what I tell him, but he's reasonably bright and he pays attention. To me, and to what's going on around him and in the country.

"Also, unless their stealth technology has improved a great deal I should be able to detect at least some electromagnetic radiation. I take it that there's no word in the city?"

"The army has not yet returned, divinity. Official couriers have been seen, but no letters are being delivered to the families of the legionaries. And certainly no one in the army has come back."

And while a priest of a major god might be able to buttonhole a senator in the know, a priest of a minor god would be looking to get a beating for his impudence.

Ah.

"Daniel, would you be so good as to escort the Second Prince to me? Perhaps imply to the praetorians that their services are not required."

He bows in the direction of my altar.

"At once, divinity."

He walks purposively towards the door, then slows.

"Divinity-?"

"I'm not in the habit of abandoning my obligations, Daniel. You genuinely wish to serve me until you die. Whether here or elsewhere, I will find a place for you, for as long as you desire it."

"Yes. Thank you. I am.. sorry to have doubted you."

"Think nothing of it."

I watch him go, Corps-related memories I haven't bothered with in some time stirring themselves. The Corps was well settled into its groove when I left, but we're not exactly the most stable organisation. Is Azula still Clarissi? She struck me as someone who would always find ways to push herself, but would that drive be strong enough to keep her alive this far beyond the normal human span?

Ah, and here's my nervous-looking guest now. And he neatly combines my actual preference in a bearer with the one I rejected; he's a prince who's acting like a man on his way to the gallows. The praetorians clearly have a similar opinion of the situation. Either that, or his father didn't give them any specific orders and they decided to knock off early.

Of course, once he puts me on then he certainly won't need their protection.

"Hello?"

He does start when the door closes behind him.

"Hello-"

And again when he hears me speak.

"-Prince Diabo El Caesar. Thank you for coming."

"What..? Would you have me do? Why did you tell my father to give me-"

He waves the scroll appointing him General.

"-this, when you're just-."

"To be completely clear, I have no need to possess you or kill you. Using this ring, I can lend you a portion of my power, as well as provide you with guidance."

He blinks in surprise.

"You're-? Going to make me your apostle?"

"No. That may happen at some point in the future, if that is your ambition. But at the moment I imagine that you will be content with raising your profile."

He nods cautiously, his manner still tense but a bit less 'cat in a bag waiting to drown'.

"I imagine that we have limited time. Please, approach my altar and take my ring."

He slowly comes closer.

"My father thinks that you will kill me."

"I hate to break this to you, but your father is a giant shit."

He cringes, looking around for potential observers.

"Don't worry, this room is inviolate. No, your father has committed the twin sins of arrogance and stupidity. I am hopeful that the next generation will learn from his errors, but I am not confident. Thus: you will be advised by me."

He finally reaches the altar and reaches out slowly to remove the ring before snatching it and jerking his hand back in case the snake bites him or the man strikes him.

"Very dramatic. Any finger you like, as long as it's yours."

He slides it on his middle-left and we have a connection. His desires for self-preservation and power trigger the environmental shield at once, and he watches with a degree of concern as it extends over his body.

"That will shield you and allow you to breathe anywhere. I would recommend taking this ring off before pissing or shitting."

"Why, what happens?"

"It's uncomfortable. Though extremely hygienic. Now, we're needed on Alnus Hill before things deteriorate further. With that in mind I'm granting you the ability to fly."

"Fl-? How?"

"It's simple enough. You just have to want to fly and want to reach a particular destination. Have you ever flown before?"

"Yes… But… On a wyvern, not by magic."

He holds up his left hand slightly, staring at the ring.

"I didn't think that was possible."

"There's a long and complicated explanation that we'll have to have later about how this actually works, but for now just accept that it does. Now, focus your mind on everything you want to achieve in life, and accept that this is the first step in achieving those things."

"By defeating these barbarians."

"Possibly. It depends on how you want to play it."

"What do you mean?"

"Your father did something very stupid. He picked a fight with a vastly superior force with no way to break contact. If you wanted, you could use this to completely undermine his position. But if you achieve absolute victory, it will appear that he was right all along. The war was winnable, and therefore should have been fought."

"And if I… Did… Want to undermine him?"

"Let members of the Imperial Army see the force the barbarians possess. Have them tell others what they saw. Allow that knowledge, that fear, to spread throughout the Empire. Let everyone know that your father would have doomed them and that you saved them. But for now, we must depart."

 

[RichardWhereat]

I think I'm going to have to watch Gate to understand this one.

 

[AidanMorgan]

Oh, this is the Paul that helped Para!Paul with Ambush Bug's shenanigans! Nice!

I think I'm going to have to watch Gate to understand this one.

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I haven't watched it either but I'm pretty sure the gist of it is the king decided to pick a fight with modern date Japan and got his shit pushed in by a technologically superior force and now desperately wishes he could disengage but cannot.

 

[RichardWhereat]

I haven't watched it either but I'm pretty sure the gist of it is the king decided to pick a fight with modern date Japan and got his shit pushed in by a technologically superior force and now desperately wishes he could disengage but cannot.

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No, I got that bit, but understanding the world, how Paul did the things he's managed in his backstory, shit like that.

So far I've understood everything but Mandate Timeline.

 

[Z000]

I think I'm going to have to watch Gate to understand this one.

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don't, you lose less brain cell

it way too Japan wank, and the thing is that they triple water down the nationalism in the anime, so you know that it quite bad when it still reek of Japan Fuck Yeah!

 

[Mr Zoat]

its
comma instead of semicolon (your other semicolons are good)

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Thank you, corrected.

Great powers absolutely have enough leverage, political, economic and otherwise to make the Gate an international venture.

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In canon, they demonstrably didn't. Even in reality, if Japan chose not to allow foreign companies to do business on the far side... What happens? Reciprocal tariffs? Embargoes on Japanese goods? That hurts, but the impression I got is that the Japanese could put up with that until they get large enough markets on the far side of the gate to replace them. In canon they refused to accede to the US's demands until they used blackmail, so that's not going to work. Using agents embedded in Japanese companies might work, but other than accurate intelligence reports they're still not going to get a fat lot out of it.