Cuchulin
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Might be the entire species have some Agoraphobia or that their psychology is similar to that of Pierson's Puppeteers.
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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
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Might be the entire species have some Agoraphobia or that their psychology is similar to that of Pierson's Puppeteers.
Chojin Patriarch
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Heh, a slightly self-serving sort of generosity. The Margave probably expend a lot of effort on those slave uprisings, and they probably find the idea of letting someone else foot the bill for a while useful.
It could well be a case of 'yes, all of the above'
I mean, they are aggressively isolationist, apparently to the point of shooting interlopers?
That's a good question. I'm guessing the Corps respect their borders mostly to avoid hostile encounters...
Terse, eh? A species of few words, then? Not least 'Leave', 'Go Away' and 'Now'.
Knowing their physical configuration might give some idea of tendencies, yes. For instance, species with wide-set eyes that provide a very large field of vision suggest an ancestry of various prey species...
That's a peculiar morphology. I'm guessing some sort of rapid-assault predation method in their ancestry - swimming rapidly at prey, biting and ripping chunks off before they race out of retaliation range...
Interesting that they retain water-breathing. Hopefully they can flush their lungs without coughing the water up or leaving a pool would get messy.
Maybe a bad experience earlier in their development? Some alien species swinging through their system, leaving a hostile impression on a barely-civilised culture?
Big assumption, but you don't become a space-going species without developing that sort of skill one way or another.
...I mean, he's got a point. They look like tentacle shark-folk to us, we look like hideous bony things to them?
Especially Australian species. Fortunately, most of them prefer not to make trouble with the big things. The ones that do... Well, that's when the bug spray comes out.
Ah, giving a bit of a clearer picture of Guarn's morphology. A bit of arachnoid-anthropoid, eh?
They must also have very good or very extensive sensors, if you expect them to spot you that quickly and respond.
I suspect the locals might be a little worried that their interdiction didn't stop OL until he noticed his companion hadn't kept up... God only knows how they'd have reacted if he'd greediported...
...So, not unlike 'Mass Effect' fleet doctrines? Long-range bombardment with near-light-speed weaponry? Just the sort of thing that would get wrecked by fast, agile light craft...
Good, at least they're talking, not shooting.
And definitely terse. Few words wasted, you'll note.
Admittedly, said coordination may come down to 'Our borders. None cross.'
Not a happy peace, it's fair to note. I expect there's still be a few more incidents with OL and this coalition having to give some lessons...
Probably muted while said admiral curses under their breath at the bad news.
Not quite what I'd been picturing, but having people stinging the Thanagarians while their back turns would be decent enough.
I suspect the Thanagarians have learned to leave well enough alone for now on this front, merely offering a few pokes now and again to test the waters.
...Presumably justifying it as pre-emptive defence - literally 'they might attack us, so we'll hit them first'.
Quite likely from very long range, especially if enemy fleets are distracted from detecting long-range attacks...
In essence, forming a sort of stable push-and-pull, cold war situation. Thanagar can't attack one group without the rest carving bits off.
I do wonder how these folks expand their territory.
Well, that went well?
It'll be interesting to see what Mr Zoat present us with for this original race in terms of culture and described architecture. And at least Guarn gets to update the Corps' data on them without too much trouble. I still suspect their answer will be a tentative 'We'll handle our territories ourselves, look to your own' if they're this isolationist. Not a 'no', but not a 'yes' either.
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
No, those are intentional.
Thank you, corrected.
Duke Long
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'its'
'Its'
So, are these people just scaredy-cats, or do they have some weird specific reason they're afraid of people coming in that Oh El is going to, advertently or otherwise, get involved with? Look forward to finding out.
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
Also, it seems that I forgot the difference between Illinois and Iowa. There's probably a joke there, but I'm not American enough to know.
PDV
Revelation That Uncertainty Is Itself An Answer
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"So does Chicago."
mastermenthe
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This joke does not parse. Please elaborate?
Herb456
Getting some practice in, huh?
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I think its a comment on how the greater chicago metropolis treats all the less populous areas within reach of its orbit. Iowa is a relative afterthought to most americans and sits straight to the west of illinois, where chicago dominates the north of the state. A "short drive" away to some midwesterners.
Khornelius
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These guys remind me of the Dark Forest philosophy, they seem to be really afraid of having others come to them. Bet clearly they aren't blatantly or irrationally xenophobic. At least that's my impression for now.
BR549
This is filth! FILTH!!
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I'm definitely getting the vibe that something early on in their development as a spacefaring culture left a mark.
Like, say, if Star Trek Earth had had First Contact not with the Vulcans, but the Orions; or worse, Romulans...
Meetings Squared (part 19)
New
Mr Zoat
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19th May 2284
19:02 GMT -7
'Civilised' is a fairly… Nebulous concept.
Was pre-War America civilised? Yes, probably. They had a disease epidemic and food shortages, but those were actually in the process of being dealt with. They were extremely vindictive against American citizens of Chinese descent, but… Historically, that has been pretty normal in most human civilisations. Britain and America both practiced internment during the Second World War, and most other nations did worse.
Is the N.C.R. civilised? They have a written constitution… But Britain didn't and still doesn't. They have the rule of law… And a President who personally… Um, 'extrajudicially killed' a lot of the N.C.R's corrupting influences after inviting them to a meeting in Shady Sands, locking the door and 'narrowly surviving an attack by Legion Frumentarii who took the life of so many prominent Californians before escaping'. Hayes has started a national public education program, but it really only extends to the major cities and is based on the patriotism-heavy pre-War syllabus. And even after his 'pruning spree' the judicial system is slanted in favour of major ranching interests and against small holders. But, there is a system.
Is Manitoba? It's less sophisticated and far less internally unified. National programs are a pipedream. But there is a structure, and there is a legal system with both regular and constitutional law, and a shared culture. It's a civilisation from the nineteenth century, or possibly earlier. Not something I've ever really lived in.
But on the way here I've flown over… I don't think that was civilised. The descendants of communist resistance movements from two hundred years ago, still couping each other and making a mess of things. Some sort of power armour-focused tribe ruling over a loose alliance of other tribes. No shared culture, and no organised social structure that I could see beyond doing whatever the local strongman commands. I could be missing something, and I hope I am, but I've seen that sort of thing before. A little way to the south -and north of my father-in-law's territory- the heretical Christians of Heaven's Gate are purging the survivors of their war with the other groups of heretical Christians. I'd say that they are civilised. Some of Christianity's best wars have been against other Christians.
And across the rocky mountains…
The Brotherhood of Steel's problem child.
The Washington Brotherhood is… An oddity. They're using advanced technical armour, a power armour variant that's the signature of the Midwest Brotherhood. That almost certainly means that their founders come from there. But the leader's a ghoul. Alright, he's never seen in public without his armour on, but I've heard recordings of his speech and he's got the classical ghoul rasp.
Now, the Midwest Brotherhood does accept ghouls, but they're... Auxiliaries. People without significant Brotherhood ancestry who they allowed to join because of their critical manpower shortage. None have achieved high rank. And the Midwest Brotherhood admit that between the Calculator, furry deathclaws and everyone else they've been fighting, their record-keeping can't be relied upon. One of their veterans might have ghoulified and gone AWOL, and taken a squad or two with him. But… It's a long way from Illinois to Seattle. They don't have any airships or air transports. So someone would have to walk two-thirds of the way across the United States, which, yes, that's far less distance than the Capital Brotherhood walked, but… Why?
The only alternative would be… Sailing up through the Great Lakes? Sailing to the east coast, sailing south and crossing Central America somewhere before sailing north? I'd like to find out, but it's not the highest priority.
What is the highest priority is their brutal enslavement of the neighbouring tribes, continued military expansion and human experimentation. The last is… More of a rumour. Allegedly, not every Brotherhood member who was part of their expedition was alright with what their Elder was planning, and got together with some of the local tribals to fight them. They lost, but some of the survivors made their way south, which is how many months ago I first became aware of the problem.
So, I need to find out what they're doing as far as the experiments are concerned. F.E.V.? Cybernetics? Psionics? Ghoul-transformation? We genuinely don't have good information on that. Or what their normal recruitment practices are like, or how they maintain control, or what the full extent of their territory is.
I need to find out if they're just crazy monsters, or if there's some reason why they're behaving the way that they are. Are they being brutal in the service of a higher good, or just for the Hell of it?
At least Seattle looks like it's been cleaned up.
It sounds ridiculous, really. You'd think that in the two hundred years since the war everywhere would have to have been cleaned up, right? Roads should have been cleared a few years after the end of the war because pre-War roads are still the best way to travel and putting a car in neutral and pushing it out of the way should be simple. Or scrapping it for parts or raw material and the nuclear fuel in its reactor. But no. There are actually a lot of places where the cars and the corpses in them are still where they crashed.
Seattle doesn't have that problem. The shorter buildings have been repaired or replaced, and a couple of the taller buildings have scaffolding around their exterior. We just don't have the expertise or technology for skyscrapers in most places these days. There are a couple of air fields around the city, though they appear to mostly host Douglas C-47 Skytrains rather than fighters or attack planes. Transports for their power armour units, to suppress rebellions? Logistics?
I watch as a group in… An approximation of Brotherhood knight uniform complete loading one and back off, the plane taxiing up the runway a moment later. Security around the airport is provided by three paladins in black-painted armour, the winged sword of the Washington Brotherhood sloppily painted in red on their shoulders. The knights… Several are ghouls, so at least the Elder isn't a hypocrite. Can't say that any of them look happy, but they're doing manual labour for a man who calls himself 'The Immortal', so that doesn't necessarily tell me anything.
So: what next? I could go for a walk around Seattle, spend some time here listening to their thoughts… Honestly, Port Maw to the south of here might be better for mixing with people, but... The experiments. They're not going to do something like that somewhere where they don't have complete control. Seattle proper, then.
I accelerate the ship, aiming for… I could go for an intact-looking roof with no access. Dropping down and arresting my own momentum is easy, as is running up a sheer wall. But if the building collapsed, the saucer would fall down and be seriously damaged, and that's months of time to repair or replace and I'd have to walk back to friendly territory. No, somewhere at ground level, somewhere where there's a minimal chance of someone walking into it and calling in the scribes. Or just blowing it up.
Let's see… The beach? Few visitors at this time of year, but I don't know where the local fishermen like to beach their ships. Garage? Not a lot of people driving cars up here, but it's a city. It'll be multi-storey car parks, and those usually get repurposed. In fact, there's one…
Ah. Slave storage. At least they're well-ventilated-.
Wait, are those super mutants? Great, now I've got to talk to Colonel Shaw and find out what the heck his people are doing up here-.
They're guards. They look… Well organised, with professionally made super mutant scale weapons, shields and electrified clubs because they're keeping slaves in order, not slaughtering them. Definitely got to talk to Shaw about this. I thought that all his intelligent subordinates were either confirmed dead or still working for him. If we missed someone… They're going to want their home back, which is awkward for us as the N.C.R. annexed it. I mean, we could try selling them on the advantages of N.C.R. citizenship, but they'd be part of Arroyo State, and… Who founded that place again?
Okay, the interior's no good and they're patrolling the roof. But there are small… Towers? Sticking up out of the roof, and apart from one that has an anti-aircraft gun stuck onto it the rest are clear.
I close my eyes [and reach out with my mind, feeling the structure]. Yes, that's strong enough. Bring the saucer around and… Land.
The zetan power system can easily handle leaving the stealth system on while I walk around, so I can leave the engine on. Metaphorically. Leaving the anti-gravity system on is a good way to have it drift off in the wind. So, pop the canopy, project my thoughts outwards to make myself seem uninteresting, and jump down.
Two super mutants nearby turn and look at me, but that's only because there's nothing else going on. I raise my right hand in greeting, and while they snarl back it feels perfunctory.
"Hey, ah… I never asked." They don't look happy, but there's no spike of aggression to signal an intent to attack. "Where are you lads from, anyway?"
"Pffff! Stupid human. Super mutants come from same place as metal warriors!" He gestures widely with his club-bearing right hand. "Now go away!"
Super mutants from the mid-west? Attis's group, then? There shouldn't be any F.E.V. sources around there. I skedaddle down the closest ramp, waving at another super mutant patrol-.
"Are you here for new experiment slaves?"
A larger, paler and considerably more intelligent sounded super mutant focuses on me more than the others did. Well, that's what I'm here to find out about.
I nod. "They're getting through them fast."
"The Immortal commands, we obey. The dark scribes want tough slaves. I will show you the tough slaves."
19:02 GMT -7
'Civilised' is a fairly… Nebulous concept.
Was pre-War America civilised? Yes, probably. They had a disease epidemic and food shortages, but those were actually in the process of being dealt with. They were extremely vindictive against American citizens of Chinese descent, but… Historically, that has been pretty normal in most human civilisations. Britain and America both practiced internment during the Second World War, and most other nations did worse.
Is the N.C.R. civilised? They have a written constitution… But Britain didn't and still doesn't. They have the rule of law… And a President who personally… Um, 'extrajudicially killed' a lot of the N.C.R's corrupting influences after inviting them to a meeting in Shady Sands, locking the door and 'narrowly surviving an attack by Legion Frumentarii who took the life of so many prominent Californians before escaping'. Hayes has started a national public education program, but it really only extends to the major cities and is based on the patriotism-heavy pre-War syllabus. And even after his 'pruning spree' the judicial system is slanted in favour of major ranching interests and against small holders. But, there is a system.
Is Manitoba? It's less sophisticated and far less internally unified. National programs are a pipedream. But there is a structure, and there is a legal system with both regular and constitutional law, and a shared culture. It's a civilisation from the nineteenth century, or possibly earlier. Not something I've ever really lived in.
But on the way here I've flown over… I don't think that was civilised. The descendants of communist resistance movements from two hundred years ago, still couping each other and making a mess of things. Some sort of power armour-focused tribe ruling over a loose alliance of other tribes. No shared culture, and no organised social structure that I could see beyond doing whatever the local strongman commands. I could be missing something, and I hope I am, but I've seen that sort of thing before. A little way to the south -and north of my father-in-law's territory- the heretical Christians of Heaven's Gate are purging the survivors of their war with the other groups of heretical Christians. I'd say that they are civilised. Some of Christianity's best wars have been against other Christians.
And across the rocky mountains…
The Brotherhood of Steel's problem child.
The Washington Brotherhood is… An oddity. They're using advanced technical armour, a power armour variant that's the signature of the Midwest Brotherhood. That almost certainly means that their founders come from there. But the leader's a ghoul. Alright, he's never seen in public without his armour on, but I've heard recordings of his speech and he's got the classical ghoul rasp.
Now, the Midwest Brotherhood does accept ghouls, but they're... Auxiliaries. People without significant Brotherhood ancestry who they allowed to join because of their critical manpower shortage. None have achieved high rank. And the Midwest Brotherhood admit that between the Calculator, furry deathclaws and everyone else they've been fighting, their record-keeping can't be relied upon. One of their veterans might have ghoulified and gone AWOL, and taken a squad or two with him. But… It's a long way from Illinois to Seattle. They don't have any airships or air transports. So someone would have to walk two-thirds of the way across the United States, which, yes, that's far less distance than the Capital Brotherhood walked, but… Why?
The only alternative would be… Sailing up through the Great Lakes? Sailing to the east coast, sailing south and crossing Central America somewhere before sailing north? I'd like to find out, but it's not the highest priority.
What is the highest priority is their brutal enslavement of the neighbouring tribes, continued military expansion and human experimentation. The last is… More of a rumour. Allegedly, not every Brotherhood member who was part of their expedition was alright with what their Elder was planning, and got together with some of the local tribals to fight them. They lost, but some of the survivors made their way south, which is how many months ago I first became aware of the problem.
So, I need to find out what they're doing as far as the experiments are concerned. F.E.V.? Cybernetics? Psionics? Ghoul-transformation? We genuinely don't have good information on that. Or what their normal recruitment practices are like, or how they maintain control, or what the full extent of their territory is.
I need to find out if they're just crazy monsters, or if there's some reason why they're behaving the way that they are. Are they being brutal in the service of a higher good, or just for the Hell of it?
At least Seattle looks like it's been cleaned up.
It sounds ridiculous, really. You'd think that in the two hundred years since the war everywhere would have to have been cleaned up, right? Roads should have been cleared a few years after the end of the war because pre-War roads are still the best way to travel and putting a car in neutral and pushing it out of the way should be simple. Or scrapping it for parts or raw material and the nuclear fuel in its reactor. But no. There are actually a lot of places where the cars and the corpses in them are still where they crashed.
Seattle doesn't have that problem. The shorter buildings have been repaired or replaced, and a couple of the taller buildings have scaffolding around their exterior. We just don't have the expertise or technology for skyscrapers in most places these days. There are a couple of air fields around the city, though they appear to mostly host Douglas C-47 Skytrains rather than fighters or attack planes. Transports for their power armour units, to suppress rebellions? Logistics?
I watch as a group in… An approximation of Brotherhood knight uniform complete loading one and back off, the plane taxiing up the runway a moment later. Security around the airport is provided by three paladins in black-painted armour, the winged sword of the Washington Brotherhood sloppily painted in red on their shoulders. The knights… Several are ghouls, so at least the Elder isn't a hypocrite. Can't say that any of them look happy, but they're doing manual labour for a man who calls himself 'The Immortal', so that doesn't necessarily tell me anything.
So: what next? I could go for a walk around Seattle, spend some time here listening to their thoughts… Honestly, Port Maw to the south of here might be better for mixing with people, but... The experiments. They're not going to do something like that somewhere where they don't have complete control. Seattle proper, then.
I accelerate the ship, aiming for… I could go for an intact-looking roof with no access. Dropping down and arresting my own momentum is easy, as is running up a sheer wall. But if the building collapsed, the saucer would fall down and be seriously damaged, and that's months of time to repair or replace and I'd have to walk back to friendly territory. No, somewhere at ground level, somewhere where there's a minimal chance of someone walking into it and calling in the scribes. Or just blowing it up.
Let's see… The beach? Few visitors at this time of year, but I don't know where the local fishermen like to beach their ships. Garage? Not a lot of people driving cars up here, but it's a city. It'll be multi-storey car parks, and those usually get repurposed. In fact, there's one…
Ah. Slave storage. At least they're well-ventilated-.
Wait, are those super mutants? Great, now I've got to talk to Colonel Shaw and find out what the heck his people are doing up here-.
They're guards. They look… Well organised, with professionally made super mutant scale weapons, shields and electrified clubs because they're keeping slaves in order, not slaughtering them. Definitely got to talk to Shaw about this. I thought that all his intelligent subordinates were either confirmed dead or still working for him. If we missed someone… They're going to want their home back, which is awkward for us as the N.C.R. annexed it. I mean, we could try selling them on the advantages of N.C.R. citizenship, but they'd be part of Arroyo State, and… Who founded that place again?
Okay, the interior's no good and they're patrolling the roof. But there are small… Towers? Sticking up out of the roof, and apart from one that has an anti-aircraft gun stuck onto it the rest are clear.
I close my eyes [and reach out with my mind, feeling the structure]. Yes, that's strong enough. Bring the saucer around and… Land.
The zetan power system can easily handle leaving the stealth system on while I walk around, so I can leave the engine on. Metaphorically. Leaving the anti-gravity system on is a good way to have it drift off in the wind. So, pop the canopy, project my thoughts outwards to make myself seem uninteresting, and jump down.
Two super mutants nearby turn and look at me, but that's only because there's nothing else going on. I raise my right hand in greeting, and while they snarl back it feels perfunctory.
"Hey, ah… I never asked." They don't look happy, but there's no spike of aggression to signal an intent to attack. "Where are you lads from, anyway?"
"Pffff! Stupid human. Super mutants come from same place as metal warriors!" He gestures widely with his club-bearing right hand. "Now go away!"
Super mutants from the mid-west? Attis's group, then? There shouldn't be any F.E.V. sources around there. I skedaddle down the closest ramp, waving at another super mutant patrol-.
"Are you here for new experiment slaves?"
A larger, paler and considerably more intelligent sounded super mutant focuses on me more than the others did. Well, that's what I'm here to find out about.
I nod. "They're getting through them fast."
"The Immortal commands, we obey. The dark scribes want tough slaves. I will show you the tough slaves."
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Vaermina
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There's FEV sources everywhere, and even different varieties of it.
Chojin Patriarch
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Especially after a nuclear war and two hundred years of limited rebuilding. Most of what we've seen were communities set up by organised groups that survived the war and conquered their surrounding lands. But everywhere that isn't that...
It doesn't help that those with Chinese ancestry (or any kind of asiatic origin) would stand out more amongst a largely white and brown population. It's a human failing, the tendency to make 'others' of people who look like people you don't like.
Huh. I suppose that's one way to 'clean house' in the government. Albeit a way that requires a lot of cleanup afterwards.
Still, it's stable enough and generally peaceful, right? There are worse things...
Such is the nature of humanity. People will overlook 'sins' if it gets them something they want.
Ah, yes... The probable cause of the recent furor.
Not impossible he gained the leadership fairly, or somehow became transformed afterwards. But highly improbable.
Doable, if dangerous, especially if you have power armour and the equipment to maintain it.
Grossly inefficient, yes. The alternative is that someone got a hold of aircraft.
It's just never been a high enough priority issue to send someone to deal with it, eh?
Bet you're feeling a little foolish that you never bothered to look into it before, then...
Not a location seen in great detail in games, outside of the cancelled 'Fallout Extreme'. But the few pieces of Concept art looked impressive.
To be fair, a lot of places were a lot more concerned about surviving the aftermath, both the radiation and starvation, then the threat of raiding parties. Presumably, any routes used for regular travel have seen some cleanup, but there's only so much manpower, I guess.
Improvised bomber aircraft, even? If they have the monopoly on air power in this region, there's little need for air-to-air combat and boots on the ground are probably more effective in occupations.
Hmm... Suggests local groups pressed into service? Displaced troops absorbed during expansions?
Let's hope they don't have anyone immune to telepathic suggestion then, or that your disguise skills can let you fit in.
With enough space to land it in, too. A public park might work, as long as it's not well-travelled... Hard part is finding one.
Stables are a likely use for open places like that...
...Well, that's another option. Be careful, mind, as I don't think all super mutants originate from the same place, do they?
An awkward proposition, I'm guessing. Could be deserters, or a group that splintered off during a transfer?
Out of the way enough. But will anyone be suspicious of him just popping out of a random stairwell?
I suppose using some sort of anchor would be even more suspicious.
So not a group forcibly recruited. That suggests they're willingly working with the Brotherhood.
Troublesome. I wonder just how they ended up working here.
And it shouldn't be too hard to mind-whammy him into forgetting you were here when you need to leave.
'Dark Scribes'? Well, that's a bad sign.
Well, given that the cancelled 'Fallout Extreme' game would have featured Super Mutants as an option for troops, it makes sense there's some here. I'm guessing they came here with the Brotherhood forces following the Immortal. Or there was a small group up this way anyway for some reason. Wonder what they're getting out of all this 'experimentation'...
Neruz
HISSSSSS!
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Yeah, it seems like everyone somehow managed to get their hands on an FEV strain or two despite it supposedly being super duper ultra top secret.