With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Nervaqus987]

Do keep in mind that Grayven doesn't have Paul's protection and is in the Book of Destiny.

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Once again, a guy who at this point is all but entirely composed of matter and energy originating from Universe 16 and who's soul is most certainly comprised of a combination earthly magic and universal avarice is not someone that one should assume is not in Destiny's book.

 

[Transreal Clouden]

That depends on multiple factors, including whether one of his friends calls him.


She does, yes. Also Zatanna, I think (and she has Order magic training that Paragon Zatanna doesn't). QQ needs an info post on who has the divine awakening so far.


True. Of course, she could awaken for other reasons. Something else woke her in the source comic (though I'm not sure if the something else was also angelic).

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Karfang won't be nearly the threat without the power ring.

 

[Queshire]

Karfang having a power ring didn't dramatically change the fight on the paragon side.

 

[PDV]

To be fair, this goes for the Paragon timeline version too. I'm interested to see how that will play out, particularly considering both Pauls (both allies to their versions of Adom) have neutralized Lords of Order and Chaos.

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I think we already saw that get defused in the Paragon timeline. "Billy. Show him."

 

[Ngamer11]

This is my first attempt at doing something like this, so pls. don't hold back and give me your opinion.

13 January
08:13 GMT -5

I can't breathe. I can't stop thinking about it. It's all right. You can be with him forever. It's what you want isn't it?

"Zatanna?" her father asked. She didn't even realize he had entered the room. "Are you... Do you, want to be alone?"

Alone. Alone in a house with only my thoughts for company. Alone while the world moves on as the one person left in my family is taken prisoner in his own body. Alone... with only him helping me get my father back. Alone... talking to that thing. There is nothing wrong. After all, loves conquers all.

"No, I... I don't want to be alone dad." I finally get the words out of my mouth. He just stands there for a second, before coming closer and giving me a hug. It reminds me of all the times we had before he... Not thinking about him now. "Dad... what should I do now?"

He looks, uncertain. He looks away for a moment, before finally responding. "I... think you should take some time and clear your head. I know that what you went through was... difficult." He looks like he's wondering if he should continue. "I, I'm sorry I didn't notice..."

"It's not your fault dad. You didn't try to mind control your best friend into loving you." I think back to what happened in that gnome warren.

"No, I mean I shouldn't have left you alone and that I should have acted as a better parent and given you advice, especially when you... uh." He looks sheepish.

"Go ahead dad. Just say it. When it looked like I was growing obsessed with Paul."

"That's... not the word I was going to use."

"But I was. He was with me the whole time you were... you know." He nods sadly. I think back to all the times I spent alone with Paul. "He supported me, kept me happy, even went against the Justice League to help me get you back." I laugh mirthlessly. "And how do I repay him?" I feel my eyes start to tear up again.

"Just... give it time Zatanna. He doesn't blame you. He still considers you his friend."

"I know. But part of me still wishes... And another part reminds me what I did." He takes me in his arms.

"It's going to be alright Zatanna. I'm here." I still can't stop the tears.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

As far as I'm aware, this is everyone who's received Divine Awakening (I'm including those not performed by Grayven):

Renegade timeline: Celestial Archer (I'm including him because Grayven does use him as a sort of proof-of-concept, and he does use God Speech during the Starro-tech brainwashed Justice League episode); Green Arrow; Artemis; Zatanna; Kid Flash; Aqualad; Michael/Tawky Tawny; Orana the Amazon; Justice Lord John Stewart; Lynne Weyland/Ace; Misa Amane; Frances Kane/Magenta (the magnetic metahuman, might have misspelled her name); Claire Selton/Volcana; Circe; Queen Clea; Scandal Savage.
I don't remember if he also Awakened the other members of the Royal Flush Gang from the Justice Lords timeline (which I believe is Earth -12, though I could be wrong).

Paragon timeline: Celestial Archer (the same reasoning as the Renegade version, since they should be functionally identical); The Key (the supervillain from the opening of Gods and Mortals
whose soul was altered to be like a New God's, according to Big Barda)

As an aside, Paragon Zatanna does have some experience with order magic, as part of the studying on how to confront Nabu (she uses a shield of order to test the newly made Ace of Chaos, though I don't remember the exact episode). Of course, this is probably second-hand knowledge and study, and likely can't compare to almost direct tutelage from a Lord of Order himself, even disregarding Renegade Zatanna's Divine Awakening.
Thinking of this comparison does prompt the cliched question of who would win in a fight between the Paragon and Renegade Teams, if it was directly facing your counterpart. I don't recall any in-depth discussion of that in any of the threads so far, though I might have missed it.

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renegade stomp mate two full strength kryptonians, a kid flash as fast as the flash, zatana's would probably be about equal (love vs new godhood) etc. all of renegades also has new god tech and new godhood for most of them.
although para robin>rene robin.

 

[Mr Zoat]

19th January
13:34 GMT -6

I stroll back towards the living area of the Mountain. I'm spending the evening with the children, overseeing and participating in the play of my brood. I hadn't really thought about it in these terms before, but a definite drawback to having a lot of children isn't just that you don't get as much time interacting with each of them individually, it's that… Well, they don't need you to play with. They've got each other. With Lynne we bonded over a lot of shared activities early on, but the others… Okay, the hybrids are used to making their own entertainment, but I don't feel…

I'm not being fatherly enough. No, I'm not being daddy enough. Certainly not to the younger children.

Which is a problem, because the US Presidential Election is getting into gear. Senator Knight was the Republican Party's only viable candidate, having wormed his way into being the opposition lead on the metahuman-related legal reforms President Horne pushed through on a tide of popular and governmental support. Which is good for him, except that that same popular support resulted in the Democratic Party rubber stamping Horne as their candidate and there's barely any clear air between them on the issue.

Knight's been trying to describe his desire to boost military spending as an 'anti-supervillain' measure, but even Jon saw that one off. The press conference where he was asked about it actually got quite a lot of coverage. Being Horne, he didn't just throw a condescending sound bite at it as a more polished political operator would. It was clear as he blinked in bewilderment at the journalist who asked the question that he could barely comprehend a link between the two ideas. In the end, him reciting sections from a briefing document General Lane gave him on the effectiveness of modern American firearms against high-end supervillains was a far more effective counter than anything more straightforwardly derisory.

My personal favourite part was where he said 'while firing ten times as many rifles at a guy who's immune to bullets does achieve ten times as much, that's still ten multiplied by zero'.

And I think the country is with him on this one. Jon's handling of the whole Klarion mess has earned him a good deal of respect, especially with people who aren't normally Democrat-voters. On the opposite side of the aisle, Knight's unfunded spending commitments and spotty record on social issues don't have anything like the wide-ranging appeal he'll need in order to win. But because of my impact on American politics and my closeness to the incumbent, I'm being asked to do more public appearances. And if I want my agenda advanced, I'll have to do at least some of them. Which means less time for the children.

Anyway, I've got a couple of hours until school ends. I can accept a few interviews, read up on the subjects… Maybe have Jean throw some awkward-.

The door to the living room is open and Magnificus is sitting in the middle of the settee, staring at the television. He's wearing silk pyjamas and a furry purple dressing gown, and is sort of.. slumped. He doesn't look around as I enter the room and sit down in my accustomed chair.

He looks a bit rough. And he hasn't moved since I left.

"Doctor Sivana? Are you.. well?"

"While it's true that Danner enhanciles are not by default significantly more resistant to disease than the average person, I assure you that father ensured that both myself and B-." He closes his eyes for a moment and slumps a little further. "Beautia received immune system enhancing genetic… Sequences, genetic expression triggers and inoculations."

"That.. wasn't exactly what I asked."

"Father is…" He sighs. "I can't.. face.. working. Today."

"You're not seeing-?"

"No, that.. creature isn't back." He breathes in and out. "But my mother, my brother and my sisters are still dead. For Father, revenge is motivation enough. For me, it-. I'm not as ruthless as he is. And…" I see him make an effort to turn his head my way. "The creature attacked me.. before I.. heard. About Venus. Using psychological weaknesses I already possessed. Those haven't repaired themselves just… Because it's gone."

"You knew about those weaknesses?"

He nods, looking away again. "My.. preferred.. technique for dealing with it… Them, was to work to acquire legitimate renown. To develop technologies with market applications, as Father did before he.. went… Before he became a criminal." Another slow inhalation and exhalation. "But… Some days, I…"

"You're depressed?"

"Yes. Not… Bipolar-depressed. There's no manic cycle. Father wouldn't have.. tolerated the relevant genes any more than he would have tolerated disease susceptibility. It's just…" He closes his eyes slowly and then opens them again. "I can't…"

"If you want to.. talk about it, I'm here. Or I can.. get a professional, if that's better?"

"I'm jealous-. I was jealous, of Thaddeus-. Junior." He shakes his head. "It disgusts me.. now, but…"

"Without intending any disrespect to your late brother… Why?"

"Mrn." He breathes in and out again. "Father is an excellent.. teacher. But.. you've.. seen him." I nod. "I learned more about science, engineering… Even economics at home than I ever did at school. What I didn't do was play.. catch. Or.. anything physical. Beautia and I would… When we were on holiday, we'd.. run cross county or.. swim out into the middle of the ocean…" He chuckles quietly. "But while Father was very good at setting us intellectual challenges, we never really had any.. physical ones. And then… Despite being nearly two years younger, Thaddeus and Georgia were able to work at the same intellectual level as us. And then… They'd been designed to be mentally quicker. They're both-. They.. were both.. more intelligent than me. And.. since.. my.. satisfaction-. I was most satisfied by intellectual achievement, that was a…" He slumps back again. "I didn't resent them, but I wished that Father had done for me what he did for Thaddeus."

"You'd give up your strength, toughness and.. at least fifty years of life expectancy?"

"My strength isolated me socially, and I never really did anything with it. My sense of.. self-value is tied up in my intellectual achievements. And extending a human life isn't that hard. You can buy basic senolytics commercially, and Father hasn't stayed as spry as he has through good diet and exercise."

"So… Um… Just so I understand… You're unhappy because you consider your intellectual achievements to be insufficient, despite all of the commercial applications of the circuitry fabrication techniques you invented and pioneered. And the fact that you're a physical Adonis doesn't make you feel better…"

"I.. know how it sounds. This is why I didn't.. talk about it."

"I can't even call it a First World problem. It's a Zeroth World problem. People would quite literally kill for either your intelligence or your strength." Hm. Ah! "And while it's not something I can really relate to, I believe I know someone who can."

Mother Box, hush tube to wherever Sunset is.

Ping.

I get up and walk through the hush tube to… Sunset's laboratory. She looks up from her computer as I come through. "Grayven? How did the meeting go?"

"Pretty well. Sunset, I've got a problem for you."

She perks up slightly. "You found a new magic artefact you need me to analyse?"

"No. A friendship problem."

The perk vanishes, and she shakes her head. "I don't handle that kind of problem."

"Well, either today you do… Or you can start paying rent."

She huffs. "Fine." She gets up and follows me back through the tube.

Magnificus doesn't turn his head as we reappear, but he does move his eyes our way.

"Sunset, this is Magnificus. He's depressed because he feels like an underachiever due to his IQ being a mere two hundred rather than two twenty. Magnificus, this is Sunset Shimmer. After her superlative display of magic talent in early childhood attracted the demigoddess ruler of her nation to select her as her personal acolyte, she got so annoyed about the focus of the curriculum that she decided that she would rather storm off to a parallel universe with just the fur on her back rather than put up with it for a couple of years, graduate and then study whatever she wanted."

"I feel that the two of you have a great deal in common, and I'm going to leave you to talk about it. Have fun."

 

[Ganurath]

Meanwhile, in Paul's continuity, Thomas is feeling the urge to laugh, and he doesn't know why.

 

[Fouredged]

"We both now hate him agreed?"

"Agreed."

 

[Ardy]

And thus began the New God Extermination Plague. Good job, Grayven.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

Certainly not to the younger children

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Missing Full Stop.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

My personal favourite part was where he said 'while firing ten times as many rifles at a guy who's immune to bullets does achieve ten times as much, that's still ten multiplied by zero'.

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Nice... </e thumbs-up>

They're both-. They.. were both.. more intelligent that me.

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They're both-. They.. were both.. more intelligent than me.

And that fact that you're a physical Adonis doesn't make you feel better…"

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And the fact that you're a physical Adonis doesn't make you feel better…"

"Sunset, this is Magnificus. He's depressed because he feels like an underachiever due to his IQ being a mere two hundred rather than two twenty. Magnifius, this is Sunset Shimmer. After her superlative display of magic talent in early childhood attracted the demigoddess ruler of her nation to select her as her personal acolyte, she got so annoyed about the focus of the curriculum that she decided that she would rather storm off to a parallel universe with just the fur on her back rather than put up with it for a couple of years, graduate and then study whatever she wanted."

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Such a... pointed summary of Sunset's issues...

And damn if Magnificus doesn't need a hug. I doubt conventional therapy would help much, most therapists would be less intelligent than he is...
The little stumbles he makes when talking about his family... If grief had a color, he'd be soaked in it.

 

[Vaermina]

Knight's been trying to describe his desire to boost military spending as an 'anti-supervillain' measure, but even Jon saw that one off. The press conference where he was asked about it actually got quite a lot of coverage. Being Horne, he didn't just throw a condescending sound bite at it as a more polished political operator would. It was clear as he blinked in bewilderment at the journalist who asked the question that he could barely comprehend a link between the two ideas. In the end, him reciting sections from a briefing document General Lane gave him on the effectiveness of modern American firearms against high-end supervillains was a far more effective counter than anything more straightforwardly derisory.

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Wow... That is one hell of an idiotic strawman on Horne's part.

I mean for crying out loud, it equates military spending to buying guns and then treats the argument as won. But of course, the actual important part of military spending in concerns to anti-supervillain measures would be RDT&E, aka Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.

You know, the spending that lets the government develop super-tech.

 

[Ardy]

Wow... That is one hell of an idiotic strawman on Horne's part.

I mean for crying out loud, it equates military spending to buying guns and then treats the argument as won. But of course, the actual important part of military spending in concerns to anti-supervillain measures would be RDT&E, aka Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.

You know, the spending that lets the government develop super-tech.

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Wow.... That is one hell of an idiotic strawman on Vaermina's part.

I mean for crying out loud, it equates military spending in general with the very specific budgets proposed by a fictional character that you have never read, and yet has been mocked widely by an in-universe military general, the in-universe US president, an in-universe god, and the in-universe press.

That's four groups of people who know more about it than you do and who think it's dumb, and yet you disregard them all. Good job.

 

[Ganurath]

Magnifius, this is Sunset Shimmer.

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Magnificus.

 

[Vaermina]

Wow.... That is one hell of an idiotic strawman on Vaermina's part.

I mean for crying out loud, it equates military spending in general with the very specific budgets proposed by a fictional character that you have never read, and yet has been mocked widely by an in-universe military general, the in-universe US president, an in-universe god, and the in-universe press.

That's four groups of people who know more about it than you do and who think it's dumb, and yet you disregard them all. Good job.

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High Noon.

If you wish to troll please go do so in the proper thread instead of derailing this one.

 

[Senevri]

Whilst Horne's soundbite is un-nuanced, it's something that probably works in an interview.
Also, DC military doesn't have a great track record with mad science. Mostly they seem to develop one-off supercreatures, where a number of those becomes hostile to their maker.

And in all fairness, a chunk of the overblown defense budget goes to interesting, not-strictly-military projects... But that's more of a routing around the problem of having too much money...

Also I'm sure Sunset and Magnificus will get along like a house on fire.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Honestly I'd have thought in DC more US military spending would lead to Major force or Flashpoint cyborg or someone turning up? seems like a bit of a plot induced idiocy on the media's and president Horne's part.

 

[Mquz]

Wow.... That is one hell of an idiotic strawman on Vaermina's part.

I mean for crying out loud, it equates military spending in general with the very specific budgets proposed by a fictional character that you have never read, and yet has been mocked widely by an in-universe military general, the in-universe US president, an in-universe god, and the in-universe press.

That's four groups of people who know more about it than you do and who think it's dumb, and yet you disregard them all. Good job.

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Here's the thing - the military doesn't have superscience - any tech they create is useless against super villains. They have and have had way more money than they actually need - they could literally pay supervillains millions of dollars as chump change and still come off on the better end of the bargain. The current US military seemingly has all the budget they need, and still can't make tech that the in-universe Sivanas we're making in the 90s. To beat a super you need to use super-tech, not normal person tech, and super-tech is literally incomprehensible for most normal people. Funding the military will lead to more guns - more warships, tanks, planes, etc. It won't (being DC) lead to more variety - spaceships, orbital lasers, giant mechs, freeze rays, etc. because that's not how the military works in DC., and all that tech already has blueprints that they could either buy/ steal from villains with all that money. Seriously - all that spending, and the best the US military has is the suicide squad, when they could be paying the saner supervillains, like dead shot/ death stroke / Mr. Freeze / Lex Luthor millions to eliminate targets willingly / make tech worth billions by modern standards. More funding isn't what the military needs, better management is.

 

[Mquz]

Did Grayven just start the magitech revolution on accident by introducing these two?

 

[DrThoth]

I think we already saw that get defused in the Paragon timeline. "Billy. Show him."

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In case I wasn't clear, I was referring to Adom's probable future confrontation with Shazam; I don't consider the event you quoted to be a defusing of his tensions with the Wizard per se, it seemed to me to be a combination of Billy reminding him of his dead son and just the unexpectedness of being confronted by a moral child after killing/murdering a lot of people whom he hadn't planned on killing before the attack. I'm sure at this point Adom and Captain Marvel have met in the Renegade timeline as well, just off-screen; it seems like an important action for the Wizard's current Champion to check up on the previous renegade one (no pun intended).
I do agree with Renegade-Adom's reaction of moral outrage to the Wizard using children as his champions, and I feel that Paragon-Adom would probably have a similar reaction once he's had time to think things through. I don't honestly see that many differences between the Adoms yet, but given their ideologically different social circles (Paragon and Isis vs. Renegade and Circe), I do expect them to diverge more significantly in the future.

As a weakly related tangent, I enjoyed the Shazam movie a lot, even with the New 52 influences. Hopefully the Black Adam movie does justice to the character in the same way.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Missing Full Stop.
They're both-. They.. were both.. more intelligent that me.
They're both-. They.. were both.. more intelligent than me.
And that fact that you're a physical Adonis doesn't make you feel better…"
And the fact that you're a physical Adonis doesn't make you feel better…"

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Magnificus.

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Thank you, corrected.

Honestly I'd have thought in DC more US military spending would lead to Major force or Flashpoint cyborg or someone turning up? seems like a bit of a plot induced idiocy on the media's and president Horne's part.

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Major Force already exists. There was a discussion a while ago, and the consensus was that the nature of his crimes was such that they didn't want him becoming a more public figure.

Here's the thing - the military doesn't have superscience - any tech they create is useless against super villains. They have and have had way more money than they actually need - they could literally pay supervillains millions of dollars as chump change and still come off on the better end of the bargain. The current US military seemingly has all the budget they need, and still can't make tech that the in-universe Sivanas we're making in the 90s. To beat a super you need to use super-tech, not normal person tech, and super-tech is literally incomprehensible for most normal people. Funding the military will lead to more guns - more warships, tanks, planes, etc. It won't (being DC) lead to more variety - spaceships, orbital lasers, giant mechs, freeze rays, etc. because that's not how the military works in DC., and all that tech already has blueprints that they could either buy/ steal from villains with all that money. Seriously - all that spending, and the best the US military has is the suicide squad, when they could be paying the saner supervillains, like dead shot/ death stroke / Mr. Freeze / Lex Luthor millions to eliminate targets willingly / make tech worth billions by modern standards. More funding isn't what the military needs, better management is.

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Lane's not complaining about getting more money, but you're right: better direction was the main thing.

 

[Prince Charon]

Did Grayven just start the magitech revolution on accident by introducing these two?

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To be fair, he has put some effort into starting it on purpose, just not as much as Paul has.

 

[Ardy]

High Noon.

If you wish to troll please go do so in the proper thread instead of derailing this one.

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Oh I'm not trolling, I legitimately think you spend your time making up things to complain about because something about Zoat annoyed you half a decade ago and you can't stop trying to tear him down with fake arguments about things that he didn't say.

You are actually annoying me enough to stop lurking and point out your obsession

 

[Mr Zoat]

As a weakly related tangent, I enjoyed the Shazam movie a lot.

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And it turns out that I've been pronouncing 'Sivana' wrong this whole time and it actually doesn't sound like 'Savannah'.

 

[Mquz]

Oh I'm not trolling, I legitimately think you spend your time making up things to complain about because something about Zoat annoyed you half a decade ago and you can't stop trying to tear him down with fake arguments about things that he didn't say.

You are actually annoying me enough to stop lurking and point out your obsession

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Chill, some negative criticism never hurt and Vaermina is fairly civil. Some people just like pointing out the bad rather than the good for attention / validation. Some of the stuff he sometimes says is valid, and the forum wouldn't be as active without him raising controversy.

 

[Queshire]

A military style response to supervillains seems like a good chance for an Xcom reference. Well, I don't expect Zoat to do that.

 

[Ct613hulu]

This seems like a really nasty thing for Grayven to do. Sunset may be able to emphasize with Magnificus over their shared of inadequacy but she can't really relate to the whole "my entire family is dead" aspect of his trauma. It really seems like Grayven should have focused on that rather than making some kind of pointed jest out of Magnificus's depression.

 

[moralrelativity]

This is my first attempt at doing something like this, so pls. don't hold back and give me your opinion.

13 January
08:13 GMT -5

...

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Great job.

 

[moralrelativity]

This seems like a really nasty thing for Grayven to do. Sunset may be able to emphasize with Magnificus over their shared of inadequacy but she can't really relate to the whole "my entire family is dead" aspect of his trauma. It really seems like Grayven should have focused on that rather than making some kind of pointed jest out of Magnificus's depression.

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Yep, but this IS Grayven not OL.

 

[Prince Charon]

Chill, some negative criticism never hurt and Vaermina is fairly civil. Some people just like pointing out the bad rather than the good for attention / validation. Some of the stuff he sometimes says is valid, and the forum wouldn't be as active without him raising controversy.

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Negative criticism is fine, but destructive criticism is not, and there's a difference. Sure, some of what he says is valid, but far too much of it is just annoying and unhelpful.