Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic

[OverReactionGuy]

We really don't need people coming in and comparing it to the flue at this point in time.

 

[MadGreenSon]

We really don't need people coming in and comparing it to the flue at this point in time.

Click to shrink...

You mean again? Many people are desperate to make it all out to be less of a problem than it really is.

 

[OverMaster]

On the subject of the flu, a new challenger has arrived.

 

[evildice]

On the subject of the flu, a new challenger has arrived.

Click to shrink...

I can't tell if the pig in the article has just fucking had it with 2020, or if it's smugly anticipating the demise of humanity.

Spoiler: Oink

EDIT:

Spoiler: Bonus Meme

 

[Aleh]

That being said, we have no way of knowing how bad the long term consequences are yet since, as a newcomer, the virus hasn't had a long term yet. Once again, we're mostly shooting guesses in the dark.

Mind, Murphy's Law says this also means the actual long term consequences may be worse than suspected so far, no less.

Click to shrink...

Not entirely in the dark, no. We have a lot of data on the long-term consequences and outcomes from organ damage, for instance.

They are, to be clear, bad.

 

[.We]

Looks like Electronic Arts is already working on next year's sequel.

I for one am hoping G4 EA H1N1 will flop so badly it never sees a release date.

 

[NoFunposter]

Looks like Electronic Arts is already working on next year's sequel.

I for one am hoping G4 EA H1N1 will flop so badly it never sees a release date.

Click to shrink...

I guess EA will release paid DLC for anything...

>Inb4 they put a vaccine behind a Lootbox mechanic.

 

[Aleh]

Yeah. I just had to reschedule my urgent cardiology appointment. Again.

Mom. She just can't respect a fucking quarantine.

Two. Weeks. Not one. Two.

What is with her?!

Edit: She says that it's okay because they were outside and "keeping their distance." I saw them. They weren't.

They also weren't wearing masks.

 

[zup]

Yeah. I just had to reschedule my urgent cardiology appointment. Again.

Mom. She just can't respect a fucking quarantine.

Two. Weeks. Not one. Two.

What is with her?!

Edit: She says that it's okay because they were outside and "keeping their distance." I saw them. They weren't.

They also weren't wearing masks.

Click to shrink...

You cannot get urgent treatment for heart condition because you have been in contact with a person who might have Covid-19? I understand that they want to stop it from spreading but...

 

[Aleh]

You cannot get urgent treatment for heart condition because you have been in contact with a person who might have Covid-19? I understand that they want to stop it from spreading but...

Click to shrink...

Okay. First off, "urgent treatment" and "urgent appointment" are different things.

"Urgent treatment" means "this needs to be done now -- get to the hospital if you're not there already."

"Urgent appointment" means "you need to come into the office as soon as possible, because what happened might be something serious, and there's a significant risk of worse outcomes if this isn't checked out soon."

Moreover, this is a cardiology appointment -- meaning I'd be walking into an office that's dedicated to treating the sort of person who is most at risk of complications from COVID.

It's not that I can't get an appointment. I've actually gotten two. It's just that Mom has fucked both of them up.

Secondly, it's not that I've been in contact with someone who might have COVID. It's that I've been in (indirect) contact with someone who tested positive for COVID because of a family member deliberately ignoring a quarantine.

Edit: Thirdly, part of the issue is that we don't know what's going on. This isn't my first cardiology scare -- hence me having a cardiologist -- but I don't have a diagnosed heart condition. What I do know I have is several less-serious conditions that have an unfortunate tendency to look like a heart problem.

Obviously, this doesn't change the fact that I have to take incidents seriously, especially when they manifest in a new way, but it does change things a good bit on the health care provider side.

 

[MadGreenSon]

Mom. She just can't respect a fucking quarantine.

Click to shrink...

Ask her why she wants you to die and why she hates the idea of you going to the doctor. Guilt trip her. Unless she doesn't care about you.

 

[Aleh]

Ask her why she wants you to die and why she hates the idea of you going to the doctor. Guilt trip her. Unless she doesn't care about you.

Click to shrink...

I think you're massively underestimating how much of a manipulative bitch she is when it comes to me. I have... stories. Even about this one.

To give you some idea: When I told her about the scheduling change -- I was understandably upset -- she essentially blamed me, telling me that of course the doctor would be delaying the appointment if I came to him with a concern like that... or, in other words, she basically told me that it's my fault for telling his office rather than her fault for breaking a fucking COVID quarantine.

This triggered something like a five minute rant about how they'd kept their distance (I saw them within three feet of each other, and they weren't wearing masks... not to mention that Mom was able to give their three-year-old a frozen pop) and how Anthony Fauci said that outdoors events were okay/low-risk.

(He may have made a comment like that, although I wouldn't put money on her having gotten the actual point, but I can definitively say that he said nothing of the sort in the context of breaking a fucking quarantine.)

I had, mind, left by about a minute in. I'd been working on something else, and had simply gone back to what I was doing rather than stay there and listen to her shout at me in a hilariously manipulative fashion.

(Yes, she tried to guilt trip me during that rant, based on what I heard, citing "everything" she "does for me." She also deliberately attacked several known PTSD stress triggers, and couldn't even avoid using nicknames I've told her I don't appreciate.)

Then, several minutes later, after she realized that I wasn't listening, she started yelling at me for "slamming the door on her" and threatened to kick me out. Of course, I'm only living with her because she forced it on me, deliberately closing off all other options I had for alternate living situations, and she keeps me here via manipulating my medical needs -- meaning that she's literally threatening to leave me to die in a ditch somewhere when she does that.

So, yeah, it's an incredibly toxic relationship all around -- and I really don't have a good way out of it.

 

[LurkingInTheDeceit]

I think you're massively underestimating how much of a manipulative bitch she is when it comes to me. I have... stories. Even about this one.

To give you some idea: When I told her about the scheduling change -- I was understandably upset -- she essentially blamed me, telling me that of course the doctor would be delaying the appointment if I came to him with a concern like that... or, in other words, she basically told me that it's my fault for telling his office rather than her fault for breaking a fucking COVID quarantine.

This triggered something like a five minute rant about how they'd kept their distance (I saw them within three feet of each other, and they weren't wearing masks... not to mention that Mom was able to give their three-year-old a frozen pop) and how Anthony Fauci said that outdoors events were okay/low-risk.

(He may have made a comment like that, although I wouldn't put money on her having gotten the actual point, but I can definitively say that he said nothing of the sort in the context of breaking a fucking quarantine.)

I had, mind, left by about a minute in. I'd been working on something else, and had simply gone back to what I was doing rather than stay there and listen to her shout at me in a hilariously manipulative fashion.

(Yes, she tried to guilt trip me during that rant, based on what I heard, citing "everything" she "does for me." She also deliberately attacked several known PTSD stress triggers, and couldn't even avoid using nicknames I've told her I don't appreciate.)

Then, several minutes later, after she realized that I wasn't listening, she started yelling at me for "slamming the door on her" and threatened to kick me out. Of course, I'm only living with her because she forced it on me, deliberately closing off all other options I had for alternate living situations, and she keeps me here via manipulating my medical needs -- meaning that she's literally threatening to leave me to die in a ditch somewhere when she does that.

So, yeah, it's an incredibly toxic relationship all around -- and I really don't have a good way out of it.

Click to shrink...

This feels like something right out of r/insaneparents. I would try and give some advice, but I highly doubt I'd think of anything you haven't already considered. For as little as it's worth, you have my sympathy.

 

[MadGreenSon]

I think you're massively underestimating how much of a manipulative bitch she is when it comes to me. I have... stories. Even about this one.

To give you some idea: When I told her about the scheduling change -- I was understandably upset -- she essentially blamed me, telling me that of course the doctor would be delaying the appointment if I came to him with a concern like that... or, in other words, she basically told me that it's my fault for telling his office rather than her fault for breaking a fucking COVID quarantine.

This triggered something like a five minute rant about how they'd kept their distance (I saw them within three feet of each other, and they weren't wearing masks... not to mention that Mom was able to give their three-year-old a frozen pop) and how Anthony Fauci said that outdoors events were okay/low-risk.

(He may have made a comment like that, although I wouldn't put money on her having gotten the actual point, but I can definitively say that he said nothing of the sort in the context of breaking a fucking quarantine.)

I had, mind, left by about a minute in. I'd been working on something else, and had simply gone back to what I was doing rather than stay there and listen to her shout at me in a hilariously manipulative fashion.

(Yes, she tried to guilt trip me during that rant, based on what I heard, citing "everything" she "does for me." She also deliberately attacked several known PTSD stress triggers, and couldn't even avoid using nicknames I've told her I don't appreciate.)

Then, several minutes later, after she realized that I wasn't listening, she started yelling at me for "slamming the door on her" and threatened to kick me out. Of course, I'm only living with her because she forced it on me, deliberately closing off all other options I had for alternate living situations, and she keeps me here via manipulating my medical needs -- meaning that she's literally threatening to leave me to die in a ditch somewhere when she does that.

So, yeah, it's an incredibly toxic relationship all around -- and I really don't have a good way out of it.

Click to shrink...

According to what you've said here, she doesn't care if you live or die except perhaps in the vaguest sense. Keep in mind that you are literally fighting for your life here. Your life is actually at stake. Consider that when considering how to deal with your situation.

 

[Aleh]

and she keeps me here via manipulating my medical needs -- meaning that she's literally threatening to leave me to die in a ditch somewhere when she does that.

Click to shrink...

Realized, going back, that this is somewhat misleading: My medical needs are only part of what she uses. Other methods include financial control (e.g. via interfering with my financial correspondence, preventing me from getting funding outside her control, and forcing me to rely on her for pretty much everything that involves money) and isolating me from RL support networks she doesn't have control of (which she was markedly effective at even before COVID hit).

That's an incomplete list.

 

[OverMaster]

Not entirely in the dark, no. We have a lot of data on the long-term consequences and outcomes from organ damage, for instance.

They are, to be clear, bad.

Click to shrink...

We haven't had a real long term yet. Not even a full year since the outbreak started.

 

[Aleh]

We haven't had a real long term yet. Not even a full year since the outbreak started.

Click to shrink...

Again: "Entirely."

If someone suffers hypoxia-induced heart damage due to the virus, we know a good bit about what that does to someone in both the short and long terms. We also know that it's phenomenally unlikely that the virus will give them miracle Blacklight regenerative powers to allow the outcome to be better than what we would see in more idiopathic cases. Ditto lung fibrosis, ditto kidney failure, ditto... etc., etc.

As such, we have a pretty good idea of the best-case scenario for such patients. This gives us some information, and what we've seen does not look good.

Edit: Also, on the Mom front, she's now upset that I'm not thankful for her going out and getting dinner for us from one of her favorite restaurants despite the facts that I just got a grocery delivery and was planning to make something, that she made it abundantly clear that she was doing so out of a personal "need" to get out of the house, and the fact that one of my longest outstanding issues with her is her tendency to give "help" that's neither needed nor wanted, often to horrifically destructive results.

OTOH, this is getting increasingly off-topic, but at least it gives you some more of an idea of why she's a recurring complaint of mine.

 

[OverMaster]

But those bits of data are mostly taken from grave cases, and most of the relatively light cases, which comprise most of the outbreak so far, haven't been properly monitored for the kind of long term harm they could bring. For all those people, for most of the infected, we are wild mass guessing on how much will they suffer in a long term basis.

 

[Rakdos92]

Realized, going back, that this is somewhat misleading: My medical needs are only part of what she uses. Other methods include financial control (e.g. via interfering with my financial correspondence, preventing me from getting funding outside her control, and forcing me to rely on her for pretty much everything that involves money) and isolating me from RL support networks she doesn't have control of (which she was markedly effective at even before COVID hit).

That's an incomplete list.

Click to shrink...

Damn, how old is she? Sounds like the sooner she is in the grave, the better off you'd be.

 

[Aleh]

Damn, how old is she? Sounds like the sooner she is in the grave, the better off you'd be.

Click to shrink...

Early seventies will give you a ballpark. Also markedly effective at making me dependent on her in various ways, to the point that I'm not really sure what I'd do if that were to happen. Issues of income aside, I'd be suddenly cut off from the one source of support she's let me keep (see "markedly effective at..."), and there are a number of other obstacles in the way of me replacing them.

Basically, I'd have to simultaneously get a handle on my affairs given the effective information blackout she's kept me under, deal with the financial mess that would result, and go about replacing a lot of things (e.g. finding a job/source of income, which would be a lot harder than it should given the combination of my medical issues, the assorted mind-fucks Mom's caused me, and the massive, gaping employment gap she's created in my resume)... and I'd have to do it all without meaningful IRL help.

Not, mind, that I couldn't theoretically do it anyway, but the middle of the COVID crisis is really the wrong time to try, between the ongoing employment situation with the economy and the problems (such as lethal risk) I'd have finding IRL support/help. I had plans in place for getting away, but the crisis has spectacularly fucked those over already... and they were necessarily vague given some of the timeframes involved and how things have a tendency to develop.

That said, all of this is getting increasingly removed from the topic of the thread... not that it wasn't already. Unless Mom makes me delay my appointment again or something, I'd like this to be the end of the discussion of her here.

 

[Xicree]

But those bits of data are mostly taken from grave cases, and most of the relatively light cases, which comprise most of the outbreak so far, haven't been properly monitored for the kind of long term harm they could bring. For all those people, for most of the infected, we are wild mass guessing on how much will they suffer in a long term basis.

Click to shrink...

Uh... ok look. I understand that we haven't had a 'long term' to make a large amount of observations. But as human's we have the ability to compare things and understand potential effects.

First of all we know that it will attack certain organs... like the Lungs... and part of the way it kills is via lung scarring. This means that we immediately know a longterm effect it can have on a portion of people it doesn't kill, even if we don't have alot of data on what it's going to do otherwise. IE People who survive a bad bout of covid have a high chance of not having good lungs for the rest of their lives... which in turn makes OTHER lung diseases, even ones that are usually more mild, a much more 'exciting' time (Yay! Lung Party!).

That alone, even if it didn't seem to be vicious in attacking Other tissues it manages to get into, would be enough to say 'this shit is a bad time with long term effects even if it doesn't murder you down'.


As such I have 0 problem with such a statement even if not Everything about how the virus will interact with the population for the longterm is yet known.

 

[Derrandoo]

Corona can nuke any part of the body, once it gets in the lungs its capable of transitioning to blood and then bad things happen.

Lung damage is its basic and expected outcome but it can take limbs/organs or just zap the brain.

Then we get into potential for reinfection and shit starts looking potentially dire. Not very fun to imagine a future getting Corona 1x/2x a year until you lose.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RLJ1738/status/1278156609856983042

An example of Corona hitting weird, dudes liver went to the shadow realm.

 

[Aleh]

https://mobile.twitter.com/RLJ1738/status/1278156609856983042

Click to shrink...

This is the original story. There is no mention of liver damage as a result of COVID... or at all.

That's not to say that jaundice isn't the most likely explanation for his eyes or that COVID isn't the most likely explanation for having jaundice, but neither of those explanations are actually given by the original source. In both cases, they're suppositions and speculations based on the footage.

They're reasonable suppositions and speculations, mind, but they're suppositions and speculations nonetheless. Liver damage isn't the only cause of jaundice. Notably, damage to or issues with the gallbladder or pancreas can cause it, as can several drugs. The prognosis depends significantly on what's causing it.

Beyond that, pre-existing conditions are a thing, and people with them are much more likely to need to be hospitalized or put on ventilators if they get COVID.

As for non-jaundice-related yellowing... that's much less likely. Almost all causes of that sort of yellowing I can think of relate to bilirubin and thus qualify. The handful of other possibilities I can think of are really unlikely in this case.

Thus this...

An example of Corona hitting weird, dudes liver went to the shadow realm.

Click to shrink...

... is pretty much pure speculation.

 

[OverMaster]

Uh... ok look. I understand that we haven't had a 'long term' to make a large amount of observations. But as human's we have the ability to compare things and understand potential effects.

First of all we know that it will attack certain organs... like the Lungs... and part of the way it kills is via lung scarring. This means that we immediately know a longterm effect it can have on a portion of people it doesn't kill, even if we don't have alot of data on what it's going to do otherwise. IE People who survive a bad bout of covid have a high chance of not having good lungs for the rest of their lives... which in turn makes OTHER lung diseases, even ones that are usually more mild, a much more 'exciting' time (Yay! Lung Party!).

That alone, even if it didn't seem to be vicious in attacking Other tissues it manages to get into, would be enough to say 'this shit is a bad time with long term effects even if it doesn't murder you down'.


As such I have 0 problem with such a statement even if not Everything about how the virus will interact with the population for the longterm is yet known.

Click to shrink...

But that's the thing we DO. NOT. HAVE any real data on most of the relatively low profile cases popping all around the globe. For starters, most of those cases live in areas of the planet where intensive research on every case, much less proper followup, is even feasible.

Most of the damage has been documented from serious cases, but you can't really say the proper research has been done on most of the cases that don't quite go that far, so we are in mostly unknown territory there and saying anything, one way or another, IS venturing guesses for the most part.

Are you really going to tell me with a straight face that most of the cases globally have been properly researched and followed to the point of formulating educated guesses on what will happen to the majority of them months, much less years, from now on, rather than being treated, then dispatched as soon as they get better with a mindset of "Welp, sure hope this is fine from here"? Come. On.

Then we get into potential for reinfection and shit starts looking potentially dire. Not very fun to imagine a future getting Corona 1x/2x a year until you lose.

Click to shrink...

In that case we are all pretty much fucked no matter what. It's not a matter of if but when. Even the best of lockdowns can be extended only so far, a vaccine is still not a very clear option no matter what many may hope, and it's more or less generally agreed that even if we get one we all will get this before it's available, it's a matter of just not getting it all at the same time.

But if we can just get infected over and over in the meanwhile, every time further wearing you down, and this damn thing can win the attrition war against us? Game over, man, game over.

 

[mishie]

But that's the thing we DO. NOT. HAVE any real data on most of the relatively low profile cases popping all around the globe. For starters, most of those cases live in areas of the planet where intensive research on every case, much less proper followup, is even feasible.

Most of the damage has been documented from serious cases, but you can't really say the proper research has been done on most of the cases that don't quite go that far, so we are in mostly unknown territory there and saying anything, one way or another, IS venturing guesses for the most part.

Are you really going to tell me with a straight face that most of the cases globally have been properly researched and followed to the point of formulating educated guesses on what will happen to the majority of them months, much less years, from now on, rather than being treated, then dispatched as soon as they get better with a mindset of "Welp, sure hope this is fine from here"? Come. On.



In that case we are all pretty much fucked no matter what. It's not a matter of if but when. Even the best of lockdowns can be extended only so far, a vaccine is still not a very clear option no matter what many may hope, and it's more or less generally agreed that even if we get one we all will get this before it's available, it's a matter of just not getting it all at the same time.

But if we can just get infected over and over in the meanwhile, every time further wearing you down, and this damn thing can win the attrition war against us? Game over, man, game over.

Click to shrink...

See here's the core issue right. You're saying that we cannot make any assumptions about the future of covid whatsoever because we have so few cases that are exactly as lomg as you want. The thing that you're kinda ignoring is the fact that pneumonia isn't exactly a new thing, doctors and scientists have been studying all the weird and wonderful ways in which the human body, and lungs in particular can get fucked up, so even though the data for the long term effects of Covid19 is limited, there's an incredible amount known about how lungs work, how they recover after infection, and the different ways they can be damaged and how that effects tbat patient long term.

So yes, it is very much so reasonable to discus the long term effects in general of Covid19 at this stage, because unless it suddenly mutates and acts very differently, it is hilariously simple to assess a patients lungs via a routine chest xray, or if you're feeling fancy a HRCT chest, and to then use that information to plan ahead.

 

[OverMaster]

This isn't like any old pneumonia so your whole point is moot.

This is like profiling a serial killer based on a prior pocket-picker who just happened to operate in the same general area before.

 

[mishie]

This isn't like any old pneumonia so your whole point is moot.

This is like profiling a serial killer based on a prior pocket-picker who just happened to operate in the same general area before.

Click to shrink...

Here's the thing right, you're kinda making it very clear that you have absolutely no medical knowledge or experience outside of what you've seen on wikipedia or the news. And as such all the shit you're saying is basically just completely useless opinions.

But if you actually knew anything at all about how this shit works, you might be aware of the fact that diseases don't just do random shit and have totally unpredictable effects on the human body. Hell, almost every single factor of the response to Covid19 was built upon previous knowledge, because we know how these types of diseases effect the lungs in general, thus allowing medical professionals who have training beyond looking up random news articles to make predictions based on the evidence that they have.

And right now the evidence that they have to work with is countless imaging studies and biopsies of both current and recovered patients of Covid19, as well as about a centuries worth of comparison studies from other diseases that target the lungs.

So yes, it is in fact possible to predict the long term effects of Covid19.

 

[Xicree]

So yes, it is in fact possible to predict the long term effects of Covid19.

Click to shrink...

Literally THIS.

The main thing is that while we can't predict ALL of the long-term effects of Covid 19... we know more than enough about how diseases which affect the lungs work to understand those Specific long term effects.

... this really isn't that mysterious.

 

[OverMaster]

Here's the thing right, you're kinda making it very clear that you have absolutely no medical knowledge or experience outside of what you've seen on wikipedia or the news. And as such all the shit you're saying is basically just completely useless opinions.

But if you actually knew anything at all about how this shit works, you might be aware of the fact that diseases don't just do random shit and have totally unpredictable effects on the human body. Hell, almost every single factor of the response to Covid19 was built upon previous knowledge, because we know how these types of diseases effect the lungs in general, thus allowing medical professionals who have training beyond looking up random news articles to make predictions based on the evidence that they have.

And right now the evidence that they have to work with is countless imaging studies and biopsies of both current and recovered patients of Covid19, as well as about a centuries worth of comparison studies from other diseases that target the lungs.

So yes, it is in fact possible to predict the long term effects of Covid19.

Click to shrink...

I bow to your superior medical knowledge, Dr. House.

Edit: "Countless", though? Fucking really? 'Countless'? Of the current virus? Please. We are just starting with this shit.

 

[mishie]

I bow to your superior medical knowledge, Dr. House.

Edit: "Countless", though? Fucking really? 'Countless'? Of the current virus? Please. We are just starting with this shit.

Click to shrink...

Oh in that case, please point me towards a study done which shows a nice count up of every single investigation into a confirmed positive Covid19 patient. Because I really don't think you understand how fucking routine some of those are. Because I'd feel pretty confident in saying that almost every single patient that went to a hospital that was even SUSPECTED of having Covid19 got at the very least a chest xray, because holy fuck do doctors just love requesting those instead of having to think for themselves, and that's only a single type of investigation that will show a hell of a lot of information about lung condition.