Amelia, Worm AU [Complete]

[dasstan]

I wonder how horrified Faultline would be if she was in charge and actually made a planetary sacrifice like she mentioned... and then learned that it was utterly irrelevant because the EBs are in no way constrained by dimensional boundaries like that and want to stay with their Daddy.

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If it were that easy, Ziz wouldn't have needed to hijack some fancy tinker tech to escape with her life.

 

[Navrin]

If it were that easy, Ziz wouldn't have needed to hijack some fancy tinker tech to escape with her life.

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It might just be a factor of time involved. Ziz had to be able to move away really, REALLY quickly in order to fake being dead and only after she had accomplished the goal she had set for herself. Meanwhile, shifting which dimension the active "body" is in might take a month, or something.

 

[Jackercracks]

I wonder how horrified Faultline would be if she was in charge and actually made a planetary sacrifice like she mentioned... and then learned that it was utterly irrelevant because the EBs are in no way constrained by dimensional boundaries like that and want to stay with their Daddy.

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Well they can just re-open the portal later right?

 

[Navrin]

Well they can just re-open the portal later right?

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Sure. However, if that world wasn't self-sufficient odds are good that a decent percentage of the populace would be dead, with said percentage increasing the longer it takes them to reestablish the lines. Also, there's basically no way that there wouldn't be absolutely humongous social repercussions for such an action, both those on the abandoned world and those that care about those abandoned.

I hope that Pantheon has been paying attention to their Zion-genocide-indicator; they're getting perilously close to a potential berserk button for him.

 

[Daunmi]

Also, there's basically no way that there wouldn't be absolutely humongous social repercussions for such an action, both those on the abandoned world and those that care about those abandoned.

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I won't start an argument here, but I will point out that people on Earth Bet consider almost anything sacrificed to kill an Endbringer to be worth it. India got glassed: No one was happy about that, but they accepted it because Smurf 'died' as well.

Everyone might just be all "Well, you didn't intend to trap the bastard with us originally, but you took the chance when it came up... Can't really blame you for it, but we'd rather it didn't happen again thanks."

I hope that Pantheon has been paying attention to their Zion-genocide-indicator; they're getting perilously close to a potential berserk button for him.

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Just how aware are they that they're getting close? They know there's things he doesn't like, but all indicators have him floating around the world like an idiot.

I guess they could be double checking some things with Dinah every now and then. 'Chance the world ends in X years if we make portals to other earths?'

However, in canon they worked out the Labyrinth/Scrub combo during the Echidna arc, approximately 2 years before he had his hissy fit, so it could be that entities prevent host species from getting to other worlds, and are fine with them accessing (non-blocked off) parallel dimensions?

 

[Yla]

"I still don't know how you managed to negotiate pay of two million dollars a portal during an international mandate that the Sanctuary Initiative was a humanitarian aid project and to remain completely nonprofit,"

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Wait what? Two million for a interdimensional portal? That's not a bargain, that's a steal.

 

[Faraway-R]

Then the CUI would invade, and annex the territory. You might say, "Well, Pantheon has memetic Skitter, so they autowin," but the CUI is perfectly capable of creating a war that Pantheon is not willing to win. For example, if Khepri sent in huge bugs, the Yangban could use attacks that level several city blocks to kill the bugs.

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Sigh.

Several things.

First of all, please remove the link. The topic there is volatile. And I don't like it.
Second of all. If you're (I'm assuming) referring to how transfer of Crimea from Ukraine to Russia is described in wildly divergent terms in Russian and European/American/Ukrainian media, please say so explicitly.
Third of all. There is a difference between "Pantheon and CUI duke it out in the middle of the contested cities", and "Pantheon makes a retaliatory strike against the CUI troops". Because in the latter situation? Pantheon gets to dictate the location, even if CUI troops actually were in the contested cities moments before the retaliatory strike happened.

Fourth of all, and revisiting the first and second points. It's a volatile topic. I am Russian. I dislike the interpretation of events that Western media has mostly adopted. And for everyone's sakes, do drop the link. I hope you do not share that point of view.

And even if you do, this is not the thread to discuss it.

 

[Silvercrystal]

Sigh.

Fourth of all, and revisiting the first and second points. It's a volatile topic. I am Russian. I dislike the interpretation of events that Western media has mostly adopted. And for everyone's sakes, do drop the link. I hope you do not share that point of view.

And even if you do, this is not the thread to discuss it.

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A few things,
First; I am half Ukrainian and I dislike the whole situation. But I suppose fenatics and idiots come in all shapes and groups.
Second; remove the link in your quote first
Third; underlined in quote
Forth; how about them CUI fools destroying one of their own cities and calling it a victory? Or how "the powers that be" are going to devide up the alternate earths? ... You know stuff actualy on topic.

 

[Jans]

Woah mates. Woah.

Let the rest of us get the popcorn before you really start getting into it eh?

 

[Abcde]

Situation in Ukraine is disgusting. Damage to world economy, damage to worldwide diplomacy, worse damage locally, WAR, warHAWKS, annexation, corruption, TENSION.

Don't give a flying fuck about whether it was "justified" or not. Fuck that. "Justification" is bad, means somebody had to come up with a "good reason" to do something. Don't need to justify improving the world. Have to justify making it worse.

CUI is broken. Very, very broken. Denies free will. CUI justified a city killer.

So let's set this straight: regardless of your opinion of Putin, he is not Hitler. CUI is, or would be given the opportunity. Closer to Stalin, probably, which is at least as bad.

 

[ArisKatsaris]

I am Russian. I dislike the interpretation of events that Western media has mostly adopted.

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It's not the "Western media" it's every sane person all around the world. Russia invaded and annexed parts of Ukraine, just because the people of Ukraine wanted to be part of Europe. And before that, it had invaded and made protectorates out of parts of Georgia, and before that it military occupied (and still occupies) portion of Moldova.

And if we let Russian aggression be, in a couple years, it'll be yet again another nation being invaded by Russian, and Russians will again pretend that they're just defending themselves from some tiny nation like Finland, or Estonia or Belarus or whichever other one of your peaceful and harmless neighbours didn't obey the whims of your despicable Fuhrer.

 

[ArisKatsaris]

So let's set this straight: regardless of your opinion of Putin, he is not Hitler.

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All neonazi groups in Europe love Putin (except in those countries that are being invaded by Putin as we speak), and he loves them right back.

The ideology of the Russian separatists in Ukraine, is anti-semetic. They used Adolf Hitler's birthday (April 20) to pronounce to the world that they're fighting against "Zionist zombies".

No, he's not Hitler, he just has a Hitleric ideology, gathers Hitlerists, anti-semites and other genocidal maniacs a his supporters and uses the same concept of "self-determination" to justify his annexation of Crimea as was used in point 1 of the Nazi Party's manifesto to justify the annexation of Sudetenland.

 

[Prince Charon]

It's not the "Western media" it's every sane person all around the world. Russia invaded and annexed parts of Ukraine, just because the people of Ukraine wanted to be part of Europe. And before that, it had invaded and made protectorates out of parts of Georgia, and before that it military occupied (and still occupies) portion of Moldova.

And if we let Russian aggression be, in a couple years, it'll be yet again another nation being invaded by Russian, and Russians will again pretend that they're just defending themselves from some tiny nation like Finland, or Estonia or Belarus or whichever other one of your peaceful and harmless neighbours didn't obey the whims of your despicable Fuhrer.

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Estonia is unlikely, as is any other NATO member, as Putin isn't that crazy, and can't be sure that we'd ignore Article 5, if they invoked it. Finland, to avenge the Winter War, is possible, but could likewise set off dominoes. Russia will only invade countries that they're reasonably sure they can get away with invading.

Also, I'm pretty sure this discussion is off-topic, unless TaraNari says that Russia is acting more-or-less the same in the Ameliaverse as in RL.

 

[Snake/Eater]

Russia is gone in the Wormverse,if there are any survivors they are in worse conditions then the setting of that game Metro 2033.it's implied that any surviving Remnants are under constant assault from parahumans like THE SLEEPER, Finland is gone thanks to the Simurgh,to even say that is your a Finn is dangerous to your health.

 

[cosoco]

Putin ≠ Hitler

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Putin = Hitler

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*backs away from flamewar*

Third of all. There is a difference between "Pantheon and CUI duke it out in the middle of the contested cities", and "Pantheon makes a retaliatory strike against the CUI troops". Because in the latter situation? Pantheon gets to dictate the location, even if CUI troops actually were in the contested cities moments before the retaliatory strike happened.

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I'm confused. What circumstance would cause the CUI troops to suddenly leave the cities?

Also, even ignoring their military, the CUI has half a dozen other tactics they could use, like hiring mercenaries to kidnap Khepri's father. They don't need to destroy Avalon, they just need to break their will to fight.

Second of all. If you're (I'm assuming) referring to how transfer of Crimea from Ukraine to Russia is described in wildly divergent terms in Russian and European/American/Ukrainian media, please say so explicitly.

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I'm referring to how Western countries were proposing sanctions and the like, then more-or-less forgot about it.

Which is how I think the aftermath of a war between the CUI and Avalon would be treated - people would wouldn't like it, but nothing would happen to the CUI, and eventually the issue would blow over.

Russia is gone in the Wormverse,if there are any survivors they are in worse conditions then the setting of that game Metro 2033.it's implied that any surviving Remnants are under constant assault from parahumans like THE SLEEPER, Finland is gone thanks to the Simurgh,to even say that is your a Finn is dangerous to your health.

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They show up in PRT quest; they're implied to be highly xenophobic.

My personal theory about Sleeper is that Wildbow never actually decided what it was.

 

[evildice]

Russia is gone in the Wormverse

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Can you cite that, or are you just making shit up?

My personal theory about Sleeper is that Wildbow never actually decided what it was.

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Yeah when even Khepri declines to describe his power, you can be fairly certain the author is just messing with you.

 

[TanaNari]

How the hell did this conversation even come up? I am disappoint.

Also: the fact that no one really had empathy for poor Labyrinth at all. I have failed as a writer. Or all of my readers are heartless monsters. One or the other.

 

[evildice]

I have failed as a writer. Or all of my readers are heartless monsters. One or the other.

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why_not_both.tiff

But seriously, she seems better off than in canon (where she's crazy and poor and pursued by Burnscar), so yeah. Not a big tear-jerker.

 

[pheonix89]

Also, even ignoring their military, the CUI has half a dozen other tactics they could use, like hiring mercenaries to kidnap Khepri's father. They don't need to destroy Avalon, they just need to break their will to fight.

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Yeah, kidnap her father. From a city where the world itself is her and her fiancee's weapon. Great plan.

And if you pull it off? Then what? Pantheon just retrieves him with a transdimensional strike, then kills a bunch of your leaders after announcing that you made an attempt on the family of a head of state. Then they follow that up by declaring total sanctions of the CUI and that none of their tech will be going to benefit the CUI.

 

[ProdigiousThunder]

How the hell did this conversation even come up? I am disappoint.

Also: the fact that no one really had empathy for poor Labyrinth at all. I have failed as a writer. Or all of my readers are heartless monsters. One or the other.

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I have no soul so that might explain it.

 

[Navrin]

Clearly what they need to do is steal all of the Chinese citizens. Give them all good lives in a land where they're governed well and the CUI has no presence whatsoever. So just the leaders and those that specifically want to stay behind, all alone in an empty country. And if they decide to emigrate, they do so as refugees instead of as leaders/conquerers.


Regarding Labyrinth: I'm waiting for some kind of solution (tinkertech or not) that will effectively replace her power. There's also Doormaker who could be used and whose power could be studied. And really, things sucking for people is pretty much par for the course in Worm. That things suck for her LESS than in canon is less of an improvement than I would like, but it's still an improvement.

 

[SwiftRosenthal]

The way I learned it, Russia's history of expansion is better viewed as a history of seeking buffer zones against invasion, not unlike Skitter's

Thank you TN, for forcing an end to that derail.

 

[sainen]

Also: the fact that no one really had empathy for poor Labyrinth at all. I have failed as a writer. Or all of my readers are heartless monsters. One or the other.

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there hasn't been enough Labyrinth in incite empathy for her, as all the empathy is currently tied up with other more frequent characters.

 

[evildice]

Also, even ignoring their military, the CUI has half a dozen other tactics they could use, like hiring mercenaries to kidnap Khepri's father. They don't need to destroy Avalon, they just need to break their will to fight.

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Somehow I missed this previously.

Oh man, I would LOVE to see some poor fools try to break Amelia and Taylor's will to fight.

That was Valefor's plan, right? It didn't end up working out so well for him.

Clearly what they need to do is steal all of the Chinese citizens.

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This idea is brilliant, but a proper execution might be better handled by the Parental Guidance thread over on the other forum.

 

[cosoco]

Yeah when even Khepri declines to describe his power, you can be fairly certain the author is just messing with you.

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Personally, I like this explanation:
https://parahumans.wordpress.com/2013/10/26/speck-30-6/#comment-49147

And if you pull it off? Then what? Pantheon just retrieves him with a transdimensional strike, then kills a bunch of your leaders

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Not necessarily. You could attach explosives to him, and set them to go off if anyone teleports in. Pantheon would see that using Dinah, and not make an attempt.

after announcing that you made an attempt on the family of a head of state. Then they follow that up by declaring total sanctions of the CUI and that none of their tech will be going to benefit the CUI.

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Mercenaries. Hired through several deniable intermediaries. Tattletale will be able to see through it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they can prove it to the international community.

Oh man, I would LOVE to see some poor fools try to break Amelia and Taylor's will to fight.

That was Valefor's plan, right? It didn't end up working out so well for him.

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Valefor made a mistake: he could not be reasoned with or negotiated with. If Pantheon surrendered, he wouldn't be happy unless all of them died screaming. Whereas, the CUI would be perfectly happy to sign a peace treaty after invading the country where the CUI refugees were brought assuring the safety of their citizens and getting a handful of reasonable trade concessions.

 

[Snake/Eater]

I felt bad for Faultline's crew because they want to have a place in the world,but it's out of reach for them,for Labyrinth she's overwhelmed by everything her past,her future,her powers,but i feel that she's one bad day away from triggering again,she won't be a poor little girl..she will be a monster like Echidna but worst she will be a Furie of Vengeance on the world but luckily she's in good hands with Melanie and co.

 

[cosoco]

I felt bad for Faultline's crew because they want to have a place in world,but it's out reach for them,for Labyrinth she's overwhelmed by everything her past,her future,her powers,but i feel that she's one bad day away from triggering again,she won't be poor little girl..she will be a monster like Echidna but worst she will be a Furie of vengeance on the world but luckily she's in good hands with Melanie and co.

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Her power will be to select a dimension, and create an "evil mirror" of that dimension. Those people created will believe that they're the originals.

I suggest the codename Abyss.

 

[the DragonBard]

Her power will be to select a dimension, and create an "evil mirror" of that dimension. Those people created will believe that they're the originals.

I suggest the codename Abyss.

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No.
Tartarus.

Because, unlike Abyss, Tartarus was not just a realm, it was the 'god' of said realm.
Just like, Gaea, Uranus, and Oceanus, Tartarus was both world and god. Like the Primordials of Exalted, or the Titans of Scion.

 

[Abcde]

All neonazi groups in Europe love Putin (except in those countries that are being invaded by Putin as we speak), and he loves them right back.

The ideology of the Russian separatists in Ukraine, is anti-semetic. They used Adolf Hitler's birthday (April 20) to pronounce to the world that they're fighting against "Zionist zombies".

No, he's not Hitler, he just has a Hitleric ideology, gathers Hitlerists, anti-semites and other genocidal maniacs a his supporters and uses the same concept of "self-determination" to justify his annexation of Crimea as was used in point 1 of the Nazi Party's manifesto to justify the annexation of Sudetenland.

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Because calling Putin Hitler in a thread where there is/are a Russian/s isn't going to start a flame war. Quote me in a thread where this is on-topic and we can debate (de)merits all day.

Let's just keep flaming the CUI, yeah?

Edit: okay, i don't know how this came in ten posts down, and I'm sorry it did, cuz it looks like we managed to ditch the topic earlier.

 

[pheonix89]

Not necessarily. You could attach explosives to him, and set them to go off if anyone teleports in. Pantheon would see that using Dinah, and not make an attempt.

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That would require you know how Pantheon's teleport works, and relies on you winning a Tinker-off against Pantheon. Also relies on Pantheon not just grabbing the entire Imperial Family and informing the CUI that they can have their leadership back in exchange for the kidnappees.

Mercenaries. Hired through several deniable intermediaries. Tattletale will be able to see through it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they can prove it to the international community.

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Where do you expect to find mercs who will risk Pantheon going after them? Also, you can't use someone as leverage without admitting you have them, so deniablity isn't a thing.

Valefor made a mistake: he could not be reasoned with or negotiated with. If Pantheon surrendered, he wouldn't be happy unless all of them died screaming. Whereas, the CUI would be perfectly happy to sign a peace treaty after invading the country where the CUI refugees were brought assuring the safety of their citizens and getting a handful of reasonable trade concessions.

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And the odds of Pantheon going back on the deal the MINUTE they have the kidnappee back, releasing the evidence, and daring anyone to expect them to hold to a treaty created through hostage-taking are QUITE high, while the odds of anyone objecting are near zero.