Ascent of a Lunar Maelstrom [Naruto/Exalted]

[Diller]

Do we ever see anything come of hinata's medical talent but that one failed attempt at making naruto like her?

Sakura actually makes a career under that premier would be Twilight with it and is not a wallflower or stalker.

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Anime post timeskip and she was the one who fixed Naruto's shoulder in the 4th ninja world war. Plus as a Solar it would vastly increase her medical skills.

 

[Warslick]

My level of knowledge concerning Naruto is very limited. Its mostly from fanfiction, less than half a dozen anime episodes, Naruto wiki pages, and discussions like these on various forums. I know the basics of the land just not deep on specifics.

 

[BFldyq]

or stalker.

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Never understood this. Where did this view come from?

 

[Winged One]

Never understood this. Where did this view come from?

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Probably all the stalking. Though it wasn't a prelude to something worse the way it apparently tends to be in RL.

 

[Diller]

Never understood this. Where did this view come from?

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Hinata had a tendency to watch Naruto from afar and hide herself if he looked on her direction upto even Part 2. This makes her look like a stalker. However remember that Naruto is the person she looks up to the most;she's extremely shy; and she has low self-esteem which mean she can't be around Naruto without blushing,stuttering and/or being embarrassed at how she acts around someone like him. Hell if I remember right she actually fainted when she first met Naruto post time skip. Any "stalkerish" qualities will disappear as her newfound solarness and Merela's help give her confidence.

 

[Winged One]

Hinata had a tendency to watch Naruto from afar and hide herself if he looked on her direction upto even Part 2. This makes her look like a stalker. However remember that Naruto is the person she looks up to the most;she's extremely shy; and she has low self-esteem which mean she can't be around Naruto without blushing,stuttering and/or being embarrassed at how she acts around someone like him. Any "stalkerish" qualities will disappear as her newfound solarness and Merela's help give her confidence.

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Unless she gets a stalker limit break or something.

 

[Larekko12]

Hinata had a tendency to watch Naruto from afar and hide herself if he looked on her direction upto even Part 2. This makes her look like a stalker. However remember that Naruto is the person she looks up to the most;she's extremely shy; and she has low self-esteem which mean she can't be around Naruto without blushing,stuttering and/or being embarrassed at how she acts around someone like him. Hell if I remember right she actually fainted when she first met Naruto post time skip. Any "stalkerish" qualities will disappear as her newfound solarness and Merela's help give her confidence.

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I dislike rapid solarization induced character mutilation makes her palatable more canon hinata.

 

[Diller]

I dislike rapid solarization induced character mutilation makes her palatable more canon hinata.

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More like increase the speed her character development happens. Pain-4th Ninja WW Hinata compared to how she was for most of the series is like a different person. Seeing her abilities get a major boost from the exhalation and having a teacher who can help her dither improve her abilities and will be helpful to her will do wonders for her. Especially since MRL will be getting her to stop looking down on herself so much.

 

[BFldyq]

Hinata had a tendency to watch Naruto from afar and hide herself if he looked on her direction upto even Part 2. This makes her look like a stalker. However remember that Naruto is the person she looks up to the most;she's extremely shy; and she has low self-esteem which mean she can't be around Naruto without blushing,stuttering and/or being embarrassed at how she acts around someone like him. Hell if I remember right she actually fainted when she first met Naruto post time skip. Any "stalkerish" qualities will disappear as her newfound solarness and Merela's help give her confidence.

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The only times I remember such a thing happening in the manga was in chapter 238, when Naruto was leaving on the trip with Jiraiya, and right after Naruto returned from that trip, due to being caught off-guard.

Now, the anime features it far more, but it also features her fainting a lot, and I don't think it can be used as a proper indication of Hinata's behaviour.

Unless this quest is featuring the anime version of the story, in which case ignore me.

 

[Introspective Tinkerer]

Hey, isn't Merela the Solar who made it impossible to pronounce her name correctly?

 

[BFldyq]

Hey, isn't Merela the Solar who made it impossible to pronounce her name correctly?

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Nah, that was a Keychain of Creation specific plotline. WHY DID IT HAVE TO DIE?!?

In the main line, it was a respect thing. Only the Exalted from the Primordial War, or her early rule, had sufficient status/standing to be able to call her by her name. Same deal with writing it.

 

[Introspective Tinkerer]

So a Solar Exalted isn't able to rewrite reality just so people are unable to pronounce her name?

 

[kinglugia]

So a Solar Exalted isn't able to rewrite reality just so people are unable to pronounce her name?

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I /think/ there's a Sidereal Linguistics Charm that does exactly that...or maybe a Craft (Fate) shenanigans coupled with their bullshit hax Astrology stuff.

 

[BFldyq]

So a Solar Exalted isn't able to rewrite reality just so people are unable to pronounce her name?

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Oh, they certain able to. It just didn't canonically happen.

And frankly, most wouldn't have bothered.

 

[cyberswordsmen]

Solar medicine is actually kind of shitty for a supernatural setting. They can fix basically anything given enough time but they do so using normal medical treatment rules so really all they are doing is preventing complications better than normal doctors and able to heal things that you normally are crippled by with the right charms. People who get treated by a solar still recover from wounds at normal speeds the Solar is just applying bandages better and faster or bypassing the need for bandages.

A solar Sakura wouldn't really be much better at healing people than canon sakura because medical jutsu is frankly better than solar medical charms for treating wounds. Mental issues or crippling effects Solars are better at but those aren't entry level charms.

The real benifit of solar medicine is for craft(genesis).

 

[Warslick]

Solar medicine is actually kind of shitty for a supernatural setting. They can fix basically anything given enough time but they do so using normal medical treatment rules so really all they are doing is preventing complications better than normal doctors and able to heal things that you normally are crippled by with the right charms. People who get treated by a solar still recover from wounds at normal speeds the Solar is just applying bandages better and faster or bypassing the need for bandages.

A solar Sakura wouldn't really be much better at healing people than canon sakura because medical jutsu is frankly better than solar medical charms for treating wounds. Mental issues or crippling effects Solars are better at but those aren't entry level charms.

The real benifit of solar medicine is for craft(genesis).

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Just 5 charms in the Flawless diagnosis path you have healing that takes place in seconds at low mote cost that could reattech limbs, as well as healing incurable poisons mundane, supernatural and spiritual as well as curing incurable illnesses. It aslo halves recovery time so that would be useful. Cost is just 1m if you take the whole hour to do the curing and just 8m if you do it in seconds.

It might be something that can get rid of Ochimaru's mark on Anko, or its equivalent elsewhere. I mean if it can treat the Great Contagion then I think anything in the Naruto-verse should be able to be cured. Its ability to reattaching lost limbs and cure permanent blindess would also be useful as it should counter the blindness caused by use of the Greater Sharingen abilities. Not sure if it regrows the limb or allows you to reattach the limb though, so that would probably be something the QM would have to decide.

Others paths allow you to give others extra health levels that take damage first that when they disappear also take damage with them, basically healing the patient. Also replication of the charm resets any damage taken in those extra health levels. You can legally in game spam that charm and take someone from dying health levels to fully healed by abusing the charm. Its a bit broken but was never fixed as far as I can tell. It's cost of 10m per use is its only downfall to use it like that as it will get though ones essence pool rather quickly unless the solar has a effective way to recover essence quickly as well.

Not sure how this all compares to medic-nin abilities, but they would be a great improvement over the abilities that either Sakura or Hinata would have at this point in the story.

 

[cyberswordsmen]

Here are the solar medicine charms.

TOUCH OF BLISSFUL RELEASE(5m): Allows the target to ignore injuries and other status effects for 5 minutes. Admittedly useful on the battlefield but if Naruto ninja generally able to fight through pain anyway, and I would be very surprised if there aren't Medical jutsu to do the same thing.


CONTAGION-CURING TOUCH (2m): Allows Solars to perform medine without the normal tools and in awkward conditions. Impressinve in a narrative sense but generally something a field medic already does as a matter for normal field medical jutsu. The charm is basically spending motes for a passive effect that most medical jutsu shown in Naruto have.

WOUND-MENDING CARE TECHNIQUE(10m): This technique is the one they actually use to heal injuries. It requires the Solar to spend an hour treating the patient and then they only get the health levels back at the end of the day. This objectively inferior to the medical jutsu version of this which works in minutes or even seconds to get the same effect. Probably for less motes. Frankly most fantasy healing is better than this at the first level. (Cure from FF blows it out of the water as does basically any healing spell)

ANOINTMENT OF MIRACULOUS HEALTH(10m): This one is kind of useful as it grants (users essence probably 2 or 3) temporary health levels to the target so it would be a good trick to perform on teamates before the battle. But considering how lethal a combat system is having a couple more health levels is far less valuable that just killing the enemy a little bit faster with those 10 motes.

WOUND-CLEANSING MEDITATION(10m): Takes an hour to perform and converts aggravated damage to lethal. Which is not likely to be a problem as there are very few things that can deal aggravated damage to mortals or normal people. Also aggravated damage heals exactly like lethal damage but is resistant to magic healing. Would be useful in the unlikely case we are hit with aggravated damage, survive the battle anyway and still can't wait the necessary time to heal normally. Also I'm not familiar with lunar charms but I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a endurance charm to do this for ourselves.

FLAWLESS DIAGNOSIS TECHNIQUE(1m): Tells you what you could figure out about what is wrong with the patient in seconds instead of an hour of testing. Useful for showing off how smart you are when treating a patient with an unknown problem but not that valuable for a combat medic who already know the problem is they came down with a case of being stabbed. Basically lets you be House. Combat Medics have a slower version of this.

AILMENT-RECTIFYING METHOD: Halves the time it takes for a patient to recover from sickness effects, and allows them to try and cure of otherwise incurable illnesses with 5 motes. This setting doesn't really have illness as a major problem for anyone important. And the curse mark is not an illness it is a charm effect, shaping effect or something more along those lines.

BODY-PURIFYING ADMONITIONS: Same as previous charms but for poison.

WHOLENESS-RESTORING MEDITATION: Allows the healing of crippling effects like regrowing limbs but it takes days to recover so it is useless in the field. Every cripple we have ever seen in Naruto either recovers, gets a better replacement, is faking of several of those options. How often are we going to need to regrow a limb?

INSTANT TREATMENT METHODOLOGY(7m): Allows you to perform a medical treatment in seconds instead of an hour. Like many of the charms is far more impressive looking than useful. It only speeds the treatment not the recovery from the injury. It also isn't really all that much faster than a normal medic Nin.

Not to mention most of the really good combat medical jutsu used by Tsunade or Sakura would be resistance or martial arts charms.

Just 5 charms in the Flawless diagnosis path you have healing that takes place in seconds at low mote cost that could reattech limbs, as well as healing incurable poisons mundane, supernatural and spiritual as well as curing incurable illnesses. It aslo halves recovery time so that would be useful. Cost is just 1m if you take the whole hour to do the curing and just 8m if you do it in seconds.

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All of those things can be done by normal medic nin exept slighly slower to perform the treatment. That speed however is only to save the solar time. The actual recovery from the medical problems takes place at only half the speed they would if they went without treatment and managed to not die. A medic nin would spend a bit longer for the exact same effect.

It might be something that can get rid of Ochimaru's mark on Anko, or its equivalent elsewhere. I mean if it can treat the Great Contagion then I think anything in the Naruto-verse should be able to be cured. Its ability to reattaching lost limbs and cure permanent blindess would also be useful as it should counter the blindness caused by use of the Greater Sharingen abilities. Not sure if it regrows the limb or allows you to reattach the limb though, so that would probably be something the QM would have to decide.

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In order, the curse seal is a curse or charm effect not a poison, illness or crippling effect so it isn't a valid target for medical charms.

It probably could cure any Naruto verse illness but it doesn't magically heal people by casting a spell it just lowers the success count on the patients (resistance+endurance) roll needed for the patient to survive the illness to the magically treated number instead of the normal treated value, like they would with a normal doctor. The use of Medical jutsu would have the same effect.

Reattaching lost limbs is within the power of normal doctors, and medic nin, no solar power needed for that. Curing permanent blindness caused by sharingan abuse is probably possible but anyone who need that treatment probably isn't our ally. It could do either but would still require days for the patient to recover. So it wouldn't matter for any fight we get into.

Others paths allow you to give others extra health levels that take damage first that when they disappear also take damage with them, basically healing the patient. Also replication of the charm resets any damage taken in those extra health levels. You can legally in game spam that charm and take someone from dying health levels to fully healed by abusing the charm. Its a bit broken but was never fixed as far as I can tell. It's cost of 10m per use is its only downfall to use it like that as it will get though ones essence pool rather quickly unless the solar has a effective way to recover essence quickly as well.

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I mentioned that above as one of the more useful Solar charms but it cost 10 m which is a lot. It only gives (solars essence) in health levels which for a new exalt would be 2 or 3. Generally unless the patient is a soak focused celestial exalt they are probably going to be taking more health levels than that in one hit, thus reducing it's usefulness. Frankly it would be better to spend those motes on melee excellencies and use the defend other action to keep them from being hurt in the first place.

Exalted is a game where the characters are incredibly fragile and go down with only minimal damage. In a fight between equals most fights will end with one or two landed hits, and that isn't accounting for any doom combos. The proper way to keep yourself and your allies alive is to maximize your and their DV, or just killing the enemy faster.

If an ally is weak enough that they need those health levels to not die then you would be better off leaving them behind and using those 10 motes to fight better and longer.

Not sure how this all compares to medic-nin abilities, but they would be a great improvement over the abilities that either Sakura or Hinata would have at this point in the story.

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By the standards of most supernatural settings with healing magic Exalted has crap healing exept for when you are healing yourself. This is because they are really just really good doctors rather than using healing magic so they are still limited by the patients being mortal instead of being able to throw magic at the problem.

Solars were built to lead and kill primordials and thier best charms are the ones that are suited for those roles. Spending motes to heal people who aren't badass enough to recover on thier own or with the aid of lesser exalts is a far less efficent use of their time than leading armies or nations, or killing supermonsters in close combat. Its sort of like how solars actually have crap charms for small unit combat becuase they aren't supposed to be leading small units they are supposed to either be a singular champion or the head of a giant army. Small unit combat and healing people one at a time is what dragonbloods are for.

Medical Jutsu however is frankly far closer to fantasy seting standards for healing magic. Really both types of medicine could be replaced and surpassed by a white WoW priest.

A solar that sank large amounts of xp into medicine charms could function almost as well as a medic nin on the battlefeild and better in a less time constricted environment but they wouldn't be the massive out of context problem solars are in leadership, personal combat, stealth or most other things our Solar partner could be doing.

If we got Sakura as our partner I would advise having her drop the medicine aspect of her character and use her high intelligence to learn occult for it's great utility and the spell Solve Problem (officially known as demon of the first circle), and Martial arts for combat.

With Hinata I would suggest Celestial Martial arts, and socialize/bureaucracy/war charms to take over her clan and turn them into super ninja, while leading troops into battle as a general.

 

[Warslick]

OK, I had explained before that I am not very familiar with naruto and was not sure about how effective medical jutsus were in comparasin so I agree that they would not be that effective here. On the other hand I would never call an Exalted fragile. They only seem fragile in the context of the game world they live in where they are dealing out huge amounts of damage. Considering they were created to fight the primodials and their troops they had the ability to do massive amounts of damage. That it takes a couple of hits meant to damage primodials to take them out shows how tough they actually were.

The way to take out a Solar without using another Solar was to throw large amounts of lesser troops like dragon blooded at it or smaller amounts of other high powered exalted like Lunars, Siderials, or alchemicals. How this compares to the different levels of ninja in narutoverse I do not know.

 

[Introspective Tinkerer]

So it took Fate Ninjas, Champions of the Wild, and cyborg Sparks to actually beat a solar?

 

[Warslick]

So it took Fate Ninjas, Champions of the Wild, and cyborg Sparks to actually beat a solar?

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The Solars lost for several reasons. The main reason being is that they became complacent and arrogent in their power. That allowed the Sidereals to work behind the scenes to get the dragon blooded armies to overthrow them and to get the Lunars to abandon them for the most part. It took 10's or 100's of thousands of dragon blooded using first age tech to overthrow the elder Solar's and that was an even with them striking with surprise. This was against a total of 100 Solars of varying power. There is a reason that dragon blooded call up the Hunt whenever there might be a chance that a Lunar or Solar exalt might be seen. Better to get them when they are freshly exalted before they have a chance to dig into their true powers.

Not sure where dragon blooded fall into the powerscale when compared to narutoverse ninja's. That would help us figure out where our newly exalted Lunar and Solar would fit into it powerwise.

 

[kinglugia]

There are 300 Solar Exalts in total

 

[BFldyq]

There are 300 Solar Exalts in total

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There were quite a few who skipped the festivities. But that still puts the number caught in the ambush well over 200.

 

[Warslick]

There are 300 Solar Exalts in total

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My mistake, I was thinking of the re-exaltation. The breakdown was what 100 Solars, 100 Abyssals, and 100 Infernals? I was just thinking of the numbers who reincarnated as Solars.

 

[kinglugia]

My mistake, I was thinking of the re-exaltation. The breakdown was what 100 Solars, 100 Abyssals, and 100 Infernals? I was just thinking of the numbers who reincarnated as Solars.

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150 Solars, 100 Abyssals and 50 Green Sun Princes, iirc.

 

[Warslick]

150 Solars, 100 Abyssals and 50 Green Sun Princes, iirc.

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I always forget the breakdown of how many escaped and to where each went. Did not know that many become Solar's though.

 

[BFldyq]

Don't forget the 27 or so that were never placed in the Jade Prison.

And the numbers of Solars and Abyssals is a rough estimate, the numbers change due to Solars becoming Abyssals, and vice-versa.

 

[Warslick]

Can they change between Abyssal and Solar and vice versa? I thought that was only able to happen because of the unique event of the Jade Prison being broken?

 

[BFldyq]

Can they change between Abyssal and Solar and vice versa? I thought that was only able to happen because of the unique event of the Jade Prison being broken?

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Nope. Stick a Solar in a Monstrance of Celestial Portion, and the Solar will either die, or become an Abyssal.

Similarly, an Abyssal can, through a lot of hard work and pain, become a Solar.

Incidentally, both Abyssals and Solars possess a charm that allows them to temporarily become the other. And in the First Age, there was an artefact which did the same thing.

 

[cyberswordsmen]

OK, I had explained before that I am not very familiar with naruto and was not sure about how effective medical jutsus were in comparasin so I agree that they would not be that effective here. On the other hand I would never call an Exalted fragile. They only seem fragile in the context of the game world they live in where they are dealing out huge amounts of damage. Considering they were created to fight the primodials and their troops they had the ability to do massive amounts of damage. That it takes a couple of hits meant to damage primodials to take them out shows how tough they actually were.

The way to take out a Solar without using another Solar was to throw large amounts of lesser troops like dragon blooded at it or smaller amounts of other high powered exalted like Lunars, Siderials, or alchemicals. How this compares to the different levels of ninja in narutoverse I do not know.

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By fragile I mean if a hit actually hurts them and inflicts injury it doesn't require all that much injury to kill them. The durability of exalted comes from thier ability to avoid being hit because of a combination of better soak, good parrying ability, and dodging ability, alongside the charms that augment the former. Generally in a fight it will only take one or two hits getting past those defenses in order to kill an exalt. This is in contrast to dnd and most video games that have player characters soak up a large number of hits without inconvenience. If a solar is taking health levels of damage they should be either finishing the fight now or trying to exit the battle, because they aren't going to last much longer. The take damage, heal, repeat dynamic of dnd or MMO's doesn't work in exalted because the difference between full health and death is one good hit and a bad roll for converting damage dice to health level damage.

Exalts only have 7 health levels and most armed opponents can almost deal that many damage dice without magic. Another exalt can probably down you in 1 or 2 hits that get past your defences (not counting ping as that is you soak working). Giving 2 or 3 extra health levels would only let you maybe last a single strike longer and you would probably be able to avoid losing more than those health levels if you spent those 10 motes on a defense charm.

In exalted combat focused characters stay alive by avoiding taking injury not by soaking up injuries and fighting through them.

 

[Warslick]

By fragile I mean if a hit actually hurts them and inflicts injury it doesn't require all that much injury to kill them. The durability of exalted comes from thier ability to avoid being hit because of a combination of better soak, good parrying ability, and dodging ability, alongside the charms that augment the former. Generally in a fight it will only take one or two hits getting past those defenses in order to kill an exalt. This is in contrast to dnd and most video games that have player characters soak up a large number of hits without inconvenience. If a solar is taking health levels of damage they should be either finishing the fight now or trying to exit the battle, because they aren't going to last much longer. The take damage, heal, repeat dynamic of dnd or MMO's doesn't work in exalted because the difference between full health and death is one good hit and a bad roll for converting damage dice to health level damage.

Exalts only have 7 health levels and most armed opponents can almost deal that many damage dice without magic. Another exalt can probably down you in 1 or 2 hits that get past your defences (not counting ping as that is you soak working). Giving 2 or 3 extra health levels would only let you maybe last a single strike longer and you would probably be able to avoid losing more than those health levels if you spent those 10 motes on a defense charm.

In exalted combat focused characters stay alive by avoiding taking injury not by soaking up injuries and fighting through them.

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While it is true that a Solar will use their perfect defenses if possible, its not hard to make a Solar that can soak a lot of damage as well as have many more health levels than the base seven. Of course that would be on a more experienced Solar and not on a newly exalted one. Ox-Body gives you bonus health levels, my favorite being 2x -1 health level. Most Solars with the experience will take the 5 levels they can get and get between 5 and 15 health levels of varying states.

Going down the Resistance line allows you to quickly put on armor and enhances your ability to soak. It goes even higher if you get a good piece of artifact armor, especially if you can get a higher level artifact armor. This line even has charms that are based on taking damage to give you back motes of essence. Dawn caste Solars can get pretty scary especially when they have Orichalcum Super Heavy Plate, allowing them to Soak up a huge amount of damage. If a Dawn Caste gets access to a first age Orichalcum Celestial Power Armor you have a guy who could probably take on a whole dragon blooded legion and come out in good shape[OK, so maybe that is a slight exageration].

Still after saying all that, I do agree that the best defense for any Solar is not to get hit in the first place, especially against someone of their own level of ability.