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Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic

Amazon Climber said:
I can confirm that you just got it easy. My second Pfizer left my arm feeling like the entire thing one was big bruise, and left me exhausted the whole next day.
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Well, I'm usually exhausted and full of pain anyway, so I wouldn't notice that. <shrug>

OverReactionGuy said:
As someone with personal experience.

No the side effects are not exaggerated.

My sister in law got the one shot one and had a high fevor for 1 day with symptoms.

And the 2 shot one really fucked with my mom when she got it.

So don't say it's a god damn exaggeration just because you yourself don't experience symptoms from the shot.
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That can be flipped pretty easy man, all our personal experiences are anecdotal. If I cared, I would look up the stats and see what the trend is for side effects, but I barely have the fucks to reply to this thread, so I won't.
 
MadGreenSon said:
That can be flipped pretty easy man, all our personal experiences are anecdotal. If I cared, I would look up the stats and see what the trend is for side effects, but I barely have the fucks to reply to this thread, so I won't.
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Please don't down play the amount of medical science has gone into every step of this disease. The side effect listings for the vaccines are readily available, including how common they are. These aren't 'guesses' or 'handwaving'. Lucky people who 'don't feel a thing' can brag for getting the +HP gatcha of life, but from the figures, that is lucky. It is always best to aire on the side of caution, as well as respect people who aren't so lucky and experience pain and discomfort.

That being said, there may be a case to be made about the media over reporting the relatively normal side-effects of the vaccines because it's the hot topic, but that's a much different discussion.
 
MadGreenSon said:
That can be flipped pretty easy man, all our personal experiences are anecdotal. If I cared, I would look up the stats and see what the trend is for side effects, but I barely have the fucks to reply to this thread, so I won't.
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If you don't have the fucks to reply to this thread then why are you? Glad you're not experiencing side effects but you're not the norm. Simple as that.
 
MadGreenSon said:
That can be flipped pretty easy man, all our personal experiences are anecdotal. If I cared, I would look up the stats and see what the trend is for side effects, but I barely have the fucks to reply to this thread, so I won't.
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It really can't, because you're the one saying the side effects are being exaggerated. It doesn't matter how many people you've got with minor side effects, what matters is that at least some people are having a miserable experience with the vaccines. That's enough to falsify your hypothesis.
 
Amazon Climber said:
It really can't, because you're the one saying the side effects are being exaggerated. It doesn't matter how many people you've got with minor side effects, what matters is that at least some people are having a miserable experience with the vaccines. That's enough to falsify your hypothesis.
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Except that's not what I said. Or at least it's not what I meant to say. I meant that the occurrence of the side effects get a lot of the press, thus exaggerating the seeming likelihood of such side effects happening. The people who get off with a sore arm or being a bit tired get little to no press because people getting the shot and going about their business isn't a compelling story. If the majority were getting sick from the shots, more likely than not it would have been pulled. Sorry if I communicated it poorly.
 
This is my first experience with a two-shot vaccination. My body is less healthy than regular person and (probably) riddled with various conditions, so I kind of expected side-effect to affect me.

First shot, my arm was sore and I felt lethargic the whole day after vaccination. Not that bad. Second shot, however, warmed up my body and I had to rest for a whole day. I did ask the one in charge of me during the process by reporting the side-effect I got and whether the second injection would be the same, but it's nice that they gave a clear explanation that second shot has more chances to cause heavier side-effects.

It's been a long while since I last saw a doctor who can competently look me in the eyes and honestly answer my concerns as a patient.
 
I understand it's easy for things to get heated, but I hope that we can all understand this is a time of great stress and difficulty for everyone. I think it's obvious that MadGreenSon is one of the last people we'd ever see here downplaying the nature of this pandemic and I'm glad that you and OverReactionGuy were both able to calm down and talk to each other reasonably in the end.

For what it's worth, I think there may well be something to his initial thought; insofar as the negative side effects being definitively real but also potentially overblown by the press. Regrettably, reporting on the virus and the vaccine are both great ways to get clicks and unfortunately a headline that hypes up those side effects is the sort of thing that's liable to get a lot of heads turned to it these days one way or another.

It's good not to discount them regardless, however; while playing up how unpleasant it is may have negative repercussions so too can underplaying it if the person was expecting a smooth ride and then was bedridden for a day or so, as has happened to some. The ideal understanding for people to have is that, yes, it might be unpleasant for you but ultimately speaking the chance on that is a much better dice roll than getting COVID-19.

That, I think, is something we can all agree on.
 
OverMaster said:
I might have the bug now. Hard to say since I had to soak myself with icy rain two days in the way to the job, so it might just be a very bad cold, it's happened to me before. But I feel awful, with chills all over, a runny nose, back and head aches, and fever.

Just in case, it's been nice. Thanks for everything.
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You are being dramatic. Your own body contains the code for the common cold virus in your DNA. It also triggers it automatically in conditions like above, ie wet and cold, because you get fever and trembling which keep you warm and thus not dead.
 
Pef said:
You are being dramatic. Your own body contains the code for the common cold virus in your DNA. It also triggers it automatically in conditions like above, ie wet and cold, because you get fever and trembling which keep you warm and thus not dead.
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This is utterly and completely wrong.
 
Pef said:
You are being dramatic. Your own body contains the code for the common cold virus in your DNA. It also triggers it automatically in conditions like above, ie wet and cold, because you get fever and trembling which keep you warm and thus not dead.
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Wat? Seriously what were you doing on your biology classes in school? Definitely not listening to lecture of reading text book.

Our DNA don't have code for Viruses. Did you mistaken this with antibodies?
 
Luckily for me I'm not a virus specialist so I only know what I've read. Perhaps I shouldn't believe everything I do find...
Anyways, the gist of that article was that common cold was a retrovirus and thus impossible to cure.
As if that's true or not, I checked wikipedia but I didn't find it...there are plenty of retroviruses though, around 100000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous_retrovirus
 
Pef said:
You are being dramatic. Your own body contains the code for the common cold virus in your DNA. It also triggers it automatically in conditions like above, ie wet and cold, because you get fever and trembling which keep you warm and thus not dead.
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You're not even wrong, and in light of this:
Pef said:
Luckily for me I'm not a virus specialist so I only know what I've read. Perhaps I shouldn't believe everything I do find...
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Should not be commenting.
 
Pef said:
Anyways, the gist of that article was that common cold was a retrovirus and thus impossible to cure.
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This is confusing "retrovirus" and "rhinovirus." Obscure Tasmanian clothing brands aside, the phrases "retro" and "rhino" generally don't go together, and certainly aren't interchangeable.

The "common cold" is a nickname we give to a broad set of literally thousands of diseases which generally cause similar symptoms. This is the real reason we can't cure it, by the way -- something developed for one won't help with others, and the way those diseases are constantly mutating and producing new strains renders the entire thing a massively moving target. We could easily develop a cure (or vaccine) for any one of them... but not only would it do limited good (thanks to the sheer number of "common colds" out there), the damn thing would have mutated into an entirely different disease by the time we rolled the cure/vaccine out.

And then there's the issue of getting the treatment to the right patients given how similar all of those diseases look to each other.

More importantly, your inability to distinguish between the two concepts does not do your credibility much good.

Or:
Pef said:
Perhaps I shouldn't believe everything I do find...
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The closest you get to correct there is that there's a shitton of retroviruses out there -- but the diseases they cause are nowhere near as mild as the cold. We're talking about things like AIDS and cancer here. This is why antiretroviral drugs have been such an incredibly high priority for medical research over the last few decades.

Oh, and there is a good bit of DNA in us that originally comes from viruses. That's mostly of academic interest, and a side-effect of the fact that we've been living alongside the damned things for pretty much our entire evolutionary history.

Given your demonstrated reading comprehension so far, however, I should probably clarify: That "mostly of academic interest" bit? It's formal speech for "scientists think its cool, and we can probably learn some stuff from looking at it, but it doesn't matter one fucking bit outside a lab."

TL;DR? Your comments were the sort of linguistic diarrhea typically associated with the Gish Gallop.

Or, as Total put it, you're not even wrong.
 
Aleh said:
TL;DR? Your comments were the sort of linguistic diarrhea typically associated with the Gish Gallop.
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TIL; Gish Gallops is a thing. And I am probably one such user.

Also, got the second dose of Covishield vaccine three weeks ago.

Edit: forgot to mention but while I experienced symptoms of swelling and rash and stuff in my 'injected arm' before suffering a serious case of headache and body ache, soreness, terrible fever, the whole works for nearly two days after getting the first dose back in early March, I didn't feel any symptoms after getting the second dose. Like none. I felt completely fine after that.
 
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OverReactionGuy said:
What can you do.
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khZFmPA.gif
 
Pretty sure at this point I'm not going to get the severe symptoms.

Though my upper body aches. Not severely but enough where it's really fucking annoying.

It's below the time I threw my back lifting the biggest base drum for drumline and practicing with it for the audition.

Back was never the same after that.

Btw, don't bend backwards when your lifting a heavy drum. It fucks you up.
 
Be prepared to see Michigan rise in cases again because they did a dumb.

Gonna rely on the honer system for those who had their shots since they don't need masks anymore. Obviously people who didn't get a shot aren't going to wear a mask and lie about it.

Found out there's a side of my extended family that doesn't believe in the shots because they don't have enough information out about the shots and they are religious.

So I wonder how many of those people are going to be running around without a mask because this stupid "honor" system.

It's going to be a fucking cluster fuck.

This will probably still be a fucking issue 10 years from now when I'm fucking 40 at the rate we're going.
 
Can someone point me towards somewhere that has statistics on how reduced the symptoms of COVID are if you do catch it after having the Pfizer vaccine?
 
Aleh said:
The unfortunate answer to this is, "Statistics don't work that way."
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I mean, I believe you, but why not?

Like, you can track what percentage of people who catch COVID* have mild, moderate or severe symptoms; why can't you compare what percentage of people that catch it after having the vaccine have mild, moderate and severe symptoms, and compare?


*not sure why it automatically capitalises that.
 
LurkingInTheDeceit said:
I mean, I believe you, but why not?

Like, you can track what percentage of people who catch COVID* have mild, moderate or severe symptoms; why can't you compare what percentage of people that catch it after having the vaccine have mild, moderate and severe symptoms, and compare?


*not sure why it automatically capitalises that.
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Because statistics are influenced by how you ask the questions and a number of other factors. Making a comparison between two number sets thus requires that said elements be controlled for.

That data -- on the likelihood of severe symptoms and so on -- is part of the vaccine trial and has been widely publicized. Here is one publication of the data. Note that the one case of severe COVID in the vaccinated group occurred before that person could get their second shot.

That said, statistical questions are highly influenced by how they're asked -- the exact wording is really fucking important, and influences just what numbers you need to look at.

You asked:
LurkingInTheDeceit said:
Can someone point me towards somewhere that has statistics on how reduced the symptoms of COVID are if you do catch it after having the Pfizer vaccine?
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... which is a request for data on symptom severity in the same individual depending on whether they got the vaccine or not.

This is really hard to answer. First off, people who are vaccinated are likely to simply not get the disease at all. Do you want me to count this as "zero symptoms", or is your question comparing a person who got sick without the vaccine to that same person getting vaccinated and then getting sick anyway?

The problems involved in directly getting that data are... kinda obvious, especially when previous COVID infection itself would be a major confound when it comes to measuring symptom severity in that sort of case (and you can't "un-vaccinate" someone).

Secondly, you ask about "how reduced" -- which means you're, as written, not asking about overall symptom severity between categories but rather the reduction in symptoms, which means you can't get a meaningful answer without detailed symptom profiles... which is hard as fuck to do, in large part because of the above-mentioned issue with only being able to compare cases in which you asked the exact same way, but also because of the multiple comparisons problem and the sheer variety of symptoms that COVID can produce.

Basically, it's a really messy question, and fundamental aspects of how statistics work make it really hard to directly answer.

Edit: And the confounding problem means that you can't even look at numbers in the general population -- that comparison would necessarily assume that people who do get vaccinated and people who don't are otherwise identical in all variables which would effect infection rate and symptom severity... which is very blatantly not the case.
 
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