Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic

[evildice]

Please have yourself and your family members vaccinated if possible. It doesn't matter how healthy person is. Without vaccination they are gambling with thier lives.

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It's my impression that anyone who could learn this without a painful personal lesson already got vaccinated, but sometimes it's not in your own hands.

The vaccination centers I have heard about from people who work there -- which isn't many -- say that they're experiencing a trickle of first-dose clients, presumably because the anti-vax bully in their lives is no longer preventing them from doing so.

Hopefully some people are able to learn from their mistakes without losing a loved one, but it's not easy to admit you were wrong, especially not when you got conned.

 

[evildice]

The vaccination centers I have heard about from people who work there -- which isn't many -- say that they're experiencing a trickle of first-dose clients, presumably because the anti-vax bully in their lives is no longer preventing them from doing so.

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Okay this isn't happening in my area but apparently there are some other reasons for the recent upswing in first-time vaccine clients:

 

[MadGreenSon]

Okay this isn't happening in my area but apparently there are some other reasons for the recent upswing in first-time vaccine clients:

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Well… I wouldn't have thought of that as a way to motivate people to look after their own best interests, but if it works, it works.

 

[Aaron Fox]

Eh, given everything so far, that would probably cause an underground liquor market...

 

[MadGreenSon]

Eh, given everything so far, that would probably cause an underground liquor market...

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I think that with all the people lining up to get a shot that market will be for real anti-vaxxers only and those guys generally are spending all their spare cash on the scam artists who prey on them and wouldn't be able to afford inflated prices for black market booze.

 

[Aaron Fox]

I think that with all the people lining up to get a shot that market will be for real anti-vaxxers only and those guys generally are spending all their spare cash on the scam artists who prey on them and wouldn't be able to afford inflated prices for black market booze.

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This entire pandemic has shown us some serious negatives on the human condition, that the 'pessimists' of the political philosophy world aren't that far off the mark, as much as we deride them.

I mean we used to laugh at all those zombie/plague apocalypse movies... now we've seen the events that lead up to those movies play out in real life, just not with the horrid aftereffect of mass zombies/black death grade death tolls that are usually with them.

There are reasons why alcohol has so few limitations to it despite the fact that its major negative effects and all of them lead to humanity's inability to not stop drinking alcohol outside of serious medical problems. They will get that alcohol no matter what, even if it means making it themselves. Even Russia under communism wasn't exempt from this (Lenin tried, but he ultimately failed even with Russia's second-most coveted drink in the form of tea (and yes, the same substance that had the British Empire become the largest opium ring in history just so they can fuel their own addiction) at his disposal, and I wouldn't be surprised that the late 19th century versions of those vodka stills that showed up during the years before the USSR's collapse were abundant despite Lenin's best efforts).

 

[DeathShade]

This entire pandemic has shown us some serious negatives on the human condition, that the 'pessimists' of the political philosophy world aren't that far off the mark, as much as we deride them.

I mean we used to laugh at all those zombie/plague apocalypse movies... now we've seen the events that lead up to those movies play out in real life, just not with the horrid aftereffect of mass zombies/black death grade death tolls that are usually with them.

There are reasons why alcohol has so few limitations to it despite the fact that its major negative effects and all of them lead to humanity's inability to not stop drinking alcohol outside of serious medical problems. They will get that alcohol no matter what, even if it means making it themselves. Even Russia under communism wasn't exempt from this (Lenin tried, but he ultimately failed even with Russia's second-most coveted drink in the form of tea (and yes, the same substance that had the British Empire become the largest opium ring in history just so they can fuel their own addiction) at his disposal, and I wouldn't be surprised that the late 19th century versions of those vodka stills that showed up during the years before the USSR's collapse were abundant despite Lenin's best efforts).

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Just making me think of American Prohibition with this. When something is legal you can place restrictions on its use, like underage drinking laws and so on.

When something is illegal, all those regulations go out the window. And once they are already breaking the law in buying alcohol in the first place, who you give it to doesn't matter, it's not like giving your four year vodka will earn you a harsher sentence when you're already getting prison.

Or so the story went.

 

[evildice]

Just making me think of American Prohibition with this. When something is legal you can place restrictions on its use, like underage drinking laws and so on.

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Underage drinking happens more than underage illegal drug use.

Legalization reduces the profit margin of criminals, and tends to make the product cleaner / safer / fewer contamination & comorbidity dangers, but legalization doesn't mean you reduce the number of users.


COVID Tax:

 

[DrakenWise]

Found out today that a family member who didn't get vaxxed just went to the hospital for high temp. Ended up testing positive, but was sent back home or so I've heard, and is I guess recuperating now.

Now I'm getting headaches and sweats from worry for them.
This is just frustrating. I've sent them some ensure and juice for some fluids, but not sure what else I can do.

I hate hearing some of my other relatives who did vaccinate go through the "I told you so." conversations with each other. at least they are not doing it to my sick family members face.

Too much stress!

 

[Pez]

Found out today that a family member who didn't get vaxxed just went to the hospital for high temp. Ended up testing positive, but was sent back home or so I've heard, and is I guess recuperating now.

Now I'm getting headaches and sweats from worry for them.
This is just frustrating. I've sent them some ensure and juice for some fluids, but not sure what else I can do.

I hate hearing some of my other relatives who did vaccinate go through the "I told you so." conversations with each other. at least they are not doing it to my sick family members face.

Too much stress!

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The general rule when dealing with loved ones that test positive is - if they aren't having respiratory problems or have a dangerously high temperature, don't stress out about it. Just suggest whatever their doctors suggest (most likely rest and fluids).

People who play the "I told you so" game deserve to be punched in the junk. I have an unvaxxed cousin that has apparently contracted Covid twice now (maybe three times, don't remember) since 2020. My wife's side has a family that's pretty conspiracy nutters and have all gotten it. Most of the people I know that got it (both family and not) all got the shot. The current shots (mRNA ones) don't prevent someone from getting Covid or passing it along, it's job is just to reduce symptoms.

I don't know anybody personally that died from it, but I know people who know people that did. The majority of those were people that already had health issues and/or were old. If the hospital sent your family member home, then he/she is probably okay.

Just because it's Covid doesn't mean you should panic. Treat it like you would the flu or pneumonia, and follow the advice of the medical professionals that you pay/trust.

 

[evildice]

Turns out regularly getting the D can help protect you from Omicron:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/int...ing-link-between-vitamin-d-levels-and-omicron

So put on your mask and get some sunlight on your skin.

 

[Pez]

So put on your mask and get some sunlight on your skin.

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...Or just go about your life naturally. I don't think anybody is surprised that healthy living and proper diet really help dealing with illnesses.

 

[evildice]

...Or just go about your life naturally. I don't think anybody is surprised that healthy living and proper diet really help dealing with illnesses.

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> implying anyone in 2022 lives "naturally"

How the heck are you posting on the internet "naturally"?

Thanks for the free advice, but I'm going to ignore that and instead continue to live in a house with AC, cook my food which I didn't hunt nor gather nor grow myself, wear glasses and take medication, and enjoy the benefits of modern life ... plus a bit more walking outside, in a city which has paved streets and sculpted parks.

With a mask on, because I'm a human and we use tools to tie Mother Nature down and fuck her.

 

[Pez]

> implying anyone in 2022 lives "naturally"

How the heck are you posting on the internet "naturally"?

Thanks for the free advice, but I'm going to ignore that and instead continue to live in a house with AC, cook my food which I didn't hunt nor gather nor grow myself, wear glasses and take medication, and enjoy the benefits of modern life ... plus a bit more walking outside, in a city which has paved streets and sculpted parks.

With a mask on, because I'm a human and we use tools to tie Mother Nature down and fuck her.

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You're being deliberately obtuse, which isn't cool, man. This is QQ, not SB. We're better than that.

You know what I meant, just go about your life naturally, like you always have. The amount of healthy people that have turned absolutely paranoid about this is astounding.

The science from back when the pandemic started stated that only fitted N95's and K95's actually offered any protection. The gov't/CDC knew that then, but held that data. Nearly everybody I see that wears masks wear cloth ones, which the CDC admits aren't effective.

But if you want to go out and sit on a bench in a park with your mask on because you think it helps, you do you, dude. If you're happy, I'm happy. The world needs more happiness.

 

[evildice]

You're being deliberately obtuse, which isn't cool, man. This is QQ, not SB. We're better than that.

You know what I meant, just go about your life naturally, like you always have. The amount of healthy people that have turned absolutely paranoid about this is astounding.

The science from back when the pandemic started stated that only fitted N95's and K95's actually offered any protection. The gov't/CDC knew that then, but held that data. Nearly everybody I see that wears masks wear cloth ones, which the CDC admits aren't effective.

But if you want to go out and sit on a bench in a park with your mask on because you think it helps, you do you, dude. If you're happy, I'm happy. The world needs more happiness.

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Cloth masks protect other people, not the wearer.

I usually wear a KN95 because I want to protect both them and me, mostly because some idiots don't seem to care about protecting either of us.

The world needs more well-informed kindness, and yet we get these vengeful, deluded psychopaths who think they're being persecuted when asked to behave with a mild degree of consideration for anyone else.


(And no, there is no "live your life naturally" on this planet -- nature lost that match with a KO, perhaps even a fatality.)

 

[TotalAbsolutism]

You know what I meant, just go about your life naturally, like you always have. The amount of healthy people that have turned absolutely paranoid about this is astounding.

The science from back when the pandemic started stated that only fitted N95's and K95's actually offered any protection. The gov't/CDC knew that then, but held that data. Nearly everybody I see that wears masks wear cloth ones, which the CDC admits aren't effective.

But if you want to go out and sit on a bench in a park with your mask on because you think it helps, you do you, dude. If you're happy, I'm happy. The world needs more happiness.

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Whilst I appreciate the sentiment, this is treading dangerously close to the sort of thing that gets people permanently ejected from this thread.

If not for your last statement it may well have crossed that line already.

In any case, the number of QQers alone who have noted their losses in this thread justifies a certain degree of 'paranoia'.

 

[MissileTeatime]

Cloth masks protect other people, not the wearer.

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I mean, I basically agree with you, but... turns out they're not very good even at that.

I only found out about this about 24 hours ago, but it turns out you need airflow and/or "knock out everything larger than like an individual virus" grade filtration to be effective. Otherwise the particles carrying the virus can float around in the air for hours and cross large rooms. The best cloth masks are somewhat effective, and lots aren't even that.

 

[TotalAbsolutism]

I mean, I basically agree with you, but... turns out they're not very good even at that.

I only found out about this about 24 hours ago, but it turns out you need airflow and/or "knock out everything larger than like an individual virus" grade filtration to be effective. Otherwise the particles carrying the virus can float around in the air for hours and cross large rooms. The best cloth masks are somewhat effective, and lots aren't even that.

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Thanks for providing the appropriate sources and citations.

That's real fucking depressing though.

 

[evildice]

I mean, I basically agree with you, but... turns out they're not very good even at that.

I only found out about this about 24 hours ago, but it turns out you need airflow and/or "knock out everything larger than like an individual virus" grade filtration to be effective. Otherwise the particles carrying the virus can float around in the air for hours and cross large rooms. The best cloth masks are somewhat effective, and lots aren't even that.

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That's super interesting, thanks.

Regarding sanitization / washing not being effective, I wonder about the old NZ story where they allegedly found the trash can and elevator button which had (at the time) been blamed for causing a minor outbreak.

Regarding cloth masks, NYC did see a significant drop in COVID cases after use became wide-spread -- is it possible that at sea level, a fairly humid atmosphere would mean some benefit was derived from the cloth?

Either way, I'm going to stick with the KN95s going forward.

 

[MissileTeatime]

Regarding cloth masks, NYC did see a significant drop in COVID cases after use became wide-spread -- is it possible that at sea level, a fairly humid atmosphere would mean some benefit was derived from the cloth?

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I'm no expert, but the Wired article I linked mentioned atmospheric conditions like temperature and humidity being factors in how long particles can stay in the air, so I find it plausible. I don't find it so plausible that I would risk changing my behavior off that "it seems plausible", though.

And yeah, the key takeaways are "cloth masks are better than nothing, but N95s are like twice that much better than cloth masks" and "ventilation scale dilution is at least as big a factor as masks".

 

[TotalAbsolutism]

So, in a turn of events that will shock literally nobody, the 'anti-mandate' '''protest''' in New Zealand now has a lovely side of 'actual intention to overthrow the government'.

What is it about a global pandemic that brings these morons out in droves?

 

[MadGreenSon]

So, in a turn of events that will shock literally nobody, the 'anti-mandate' '''protest''' in New Zealand now has a lovely side of 'actual intention to overthrow the government'.

What is it about a global pandemic that brings these morons out in droves?

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When there is something broadly wrong going on, like a pandemic, people want something to blame and will go all out for those who give it to them. Thus credulous rubes who buy into various conspiracy theory bullshit are the perfect pawns to use for that kind of thing. Tell them what they want to hear and you can herd them towards anything you want.

 

[TotalAbsolutism]

When there is something broadly wrong going on, like a pandemic, people want something to blame and will go all out for those who give it to them. Thus credulous rubes who buy into various conspiracy theory bullshit are the perfect pawns to use for that kind of thing. Tell them what they want to hear and you can herd them towards anything you want.

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I don't want to point fingers, but I'd just like to note that the vast majority of the "Hey what if we just overthrow the democratically elected Govt." rhetoric is coming from the '''''reporters''''' of Counterspin Media on the ground in Wellington.

Make of that as you will.

 

[Pez]

So, in a turn of events that will shock literally nobody, the 'anti-mandate' '''protest''' in New Zealand now has a lovely side of 'actual intention to overthrow the government'.

What is it about a global pandemic that brings these morons out in droves?

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Do you have a source? I'm more familiar with what's going on in Australia, but I haven't seen anything about any form insurrection in NZ, just ongoing peaceful protests.

When there is something broadly wrong going on, like a pandemic, people want something to blame and will go all out for those who give it to them. Thus credulous rubes who buy into various conspiracy theory bullshit are the perfect pawns to use for that kind of thing. Tell them what they want to hear and you can herd them towards anything you want.

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The problem with this is that the narrative keeps changing. What was labeled a conspiracy at one point and got people deplatformed (such as claims that it originated from a lab in Wuhan or that there were some pretty bad side effects) have changed and are now just regular theories of a completely non-conspiracy kind. Sure, there are plenty of nutters, but they exist on both sides, from the maskless idiots that cough or spit on people to the masked that shrill and shriek at people who don't wear them.

Some people want something to blame, that's true. But I'd wager that a majority of them are just tired of all the lies and bullshit. The goalposts kept moving, and many of the things that the media and politicians and health care professionals and media said turned out to be untrue. The populations of the world kept being told "just a short lockdown to end the pandemic, then everything will go back to normal" to "you need to wear masks everywhere until the pandemic is over" to "you need to get vaccinated to keep from getting the 'Rona or you're killing grandma" to "okay so the shot won't stop you from getting the 'Rona, but we won't let you into stores or restaurants without". People are also tired of seeing celebs and politicians getting special treatment while they are forced to obey the rules (celebs at the Super Bowl, all the politicians that were caught maskless despite publicly forcing their constituents to wear them). I'm also sure a lot of people don't like being forced into taking a medical procedure to keep their jobs.

Project Veritas has some interest video of an FDA Executive talking about how President Biden wants to make the shot an annual requirement as well as how the FDA is paid nearly a billion dollars a year from big pharma.

 

[TotalAbsolutism]

Do you have a source? I'm more familiar with what's going on in Australia, but I haven't seen anything about any form insurrection in NZ, just ongoing peaceful protests.

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'Peaceful' is a joke.

It started with threats of hanging; they erased the swastika that was drawn on the cenotaph in the first few days but left that one up for some time. Their Zello and Telegram accounts are absolutely stuffed with psychopaths gleefully fantasising about executing MPs. 'Protestors' are going around local businesses, flaunting requirements for vaccine passes or masks and barging their way in through intimidation; as well as interfering with the delivery of legitimate petitions to the Government.

In addition to filming himself calling on the NZ military to overthrow the Govt., Kevyn Alp of Counterspin Media also prepared a plan of action to storm the parliament ahead of time.

The imagery surrounding the organisation of other protests in the country looks like this.

I live here. This is in my backyard. We have a home-grown fascist movement being emboldened by foreign interference that is trying to repeal the very protections that have seen our country remain relatively unaffected by the pandemic.

This is fucking terrifying.

 

[TotalAbsolutism]

Project Veritas has some interest video of an FDA Executive talking about how President Biden wants to make the shot an annual requirement as well as how the FDA is paid nearly a billion dollars a year from big pharma.

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Also, for this alone I'm kicking you out of the thread, goodbye.

I refer back to my last warning as justification.

Based on prior behaviour, I am upgrading ATP's threadban to one month. Let it be said for the final time:

No. Conspiracy. Theories.

Random fearmongering such as he posted with zero substantiation will be taken as such. The next offender will be permanently removed from this thread. There will be no more warnings.

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[evildice]

I live here. This is in my backyard. We have a home-grown fascist movement being emboldened by foreign interference that is trying to repeal the very protections that have seen our country remain relatively unaffected by the pandemic.

This is fucking terrifying.

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You have to hold your media accountable.

America didn't and just look at us.

Don't end up like us.

 

[Aaron Fox]

You have to hold your media accountable.

America didn't and just look at us.

Don't end up like us.

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Here's the thing, a lot of people think this video is true:

When the reality is far worse... as it only makes problems at the end. It isn't "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.", it's "Beware he who would allow you access to infinite information, for in his heart dreams himself your master.". Orwell is... frighteningly wrong when it comes to how one can control the masses, I'm afraid, although some of his predictions have come true.

I've been reading Transhuman Space's Toxic Memes supplement and... let's just say The Infographic Show isn't kidding when they said that the current situation is thanks in part by Transhuman Space-esque memetic ordinance...

 

[evildice]

When the reality is far worse... as it only makes problems at the end. It isn't "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.", it's "Beware he who would allow you access to infinite information, for in his heart dreams himself your master.". Orwell is... frighteningly wrong when it comes to how one can control the masses, I'm afraid, although some of his predictions have come true.

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In cryptography, there are generally two ways to deny your attackers information:

- Encryption; disguising your signal as something else

- Chaffing; mixing up your signal with false or random or unrelated information so the attacker can't even start to decrypt it

VPNs work by doing both: you disguise what you're sending to the server, and then hide your request in the mass of outbound requests that the server makes.

Information is similar. Flooding someone with bad information is quite similar to chaffing, and is one way to deny the target access to good information. It's probably why you see disinformation sources change their topic so frequently.

Spoiler: Tangentially Related Meme

 

[Aaron Fox]

In cryptography, there are generally two ways to deny your attackers information:

- Encryption; disguising your signal as something else

- Chaffing; mixing up your signal with false or random or unrelated information so the attacker can't even start to decrypt it

VPNs work by doing both: you disguise what you're sending to the server, and then hide your request in the mass of outbound requests that the server makes.

Information is similar. Flooding someone with bad information is quite similar to chaffing, and is one way to deny the target access to good information. It's probably why you see disinformation sources change their topic so frequently.

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First, we've been getting VPN-defeating software for a while now, to the point that VPN tricks don't work on some forums now.

Second, there is the sad reality that we're now living in a world of memetic warfare, which adds a new 'fun' (in the most sarcastic way possible) to information warfare. I mean, what happens when you are facing misinformation that is specifically designed to propagate?

Spoiler: Tangentially Related Meme

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... to be honest, we're in for some pretty damn rough times.