Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic

[queermunist]

Well, an economic collapse kills people too.

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"We must sacrifice the vulnerable to appease the invisible hand, lest it get angry and smite us."

It makes me so fucking sad that people have accepted that we "need" to allow mass death for the sake of the economy, even when real countries in the real world managed to eliminate local transmission without destroying their own economies in the process. We have been so thoroughly domesticated that we'd rather literally die than make the money line go down

 

[OverMaster]

I live in a Third World country going through a major crisis, if we lose our jobs, we literally face the likely threat of death by starvation and losing all of our properties. Don't you lecture me when you don't know our circumstances.

 

[chrnno]

USA here, glad we could entertain, hope your situation improves.

Spoiler: Birds

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It was more a feeling of commiseration and advanced warning of the shitshow.

As for improvement... well I am afraid the light at the end of the tunnel is an incoming train.

I live in a Third World country going through a major crisis, if we lose our jobs, we literally face the likely threat of death by starvation and losing all of our properties. Don't you lecture me when you don't know our circumstances.

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Well I was going to say the obvious but apparently I said it before and was ignored, so I will try another direction of discussion.

Fundamentally you are missing the point. The whole 'but the economy' is about first world countries which possess the infrastructure, organization, resources and everything to trivially contain the pandemic thus almost entirely negate all direct consequences(how other countries are doing is another story). Yet a lot of people can't be bothered to for several reasons and try to give that excuse even as their actions contribute to a significant economic downturn.

That is what the term means. Not legitimate concerns about how keep things working during the pandemic, but an utter disregard to the pandemic as being a crisis at all.

 

[queermunist]

I live in a Third World country going through a major crisis, if we lose our jobs, we literally face the likely threat of death by starvation and losing all of our properties. Don't you lecture me when you don't know our circumstances.

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How the fuck does opening bars and ending mask mandates in America help your country in literally any way? Please, stop assuming stonks affect your life. They do not.

 

[Aleh]

So, I finally, finally, after much drama and waiting and several all-nighters spent in various queues and lines, have an appointment for the Moderna vaccine.

Given the medical crap I've been dealing with of late, this is a tremendous relief.

 

[Valikdu]

I had a test for S-protein antibodies a month after my 2nd shot (Sputnik-V), it has shown that I've got them. I guess it means I'm alright.

Spoiler: Found a picture of a nearly-finished factory floor

 

[GoldenFlake]

Poland here. Shit is getting really bad. My aunt who's nurse at hospital is almost at the breaking point. There no more free respirators. Everyday there are patients comming who need one. They have to wait for one until someone get better or pass away. Many don't last this long to have a chance.

She said everyday have 3-4 deaths just among people connected to respirators. And the other day when she talked with director he said that Director of other hospital called, begging and crying, asking if they have one or two respirator to spare.

And it isn't just Covid patients who need those. They literally have to decide who lives and who dies.

One good thing in this hell is that it appears that vaccination worked. There less death among elderly ( from covid-19 that is). Now majority od dead are people between age of 20-50 years old in recent weeks.

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Are the infection rates going down there?
From what i can tell your statement says the healthcare system is being worked heavily, nearly to overload, but it's beginning to get better. I can't really tell.

Could you elaborate on how its going there? I'm asking cause my grandma lives in Poland.

 

[Imabot]

Are the infection rates going down there?
From what i can tell your statement says the healthcare system is being worked heavily, nearly to overload, but it's beginning to get better. I can't really tell.

Could you elaborate on how its going there? I'm asking cause my grandma lives in Poland.

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We are starting our 3rd lockdown after this Saturday and just yesterday we broke record of daily infected since early November. So situation is not very good.

Experts say that around mid April with lockdown policies things should lower to around 5-7 daily infected as it will be past season for Covid viruses.

If your Grandma have chance to get vaccinated she should.

 

[Aleh]

Are the infection rates going down there?
From what i can tell your statement says the healthcare system is being worked heavily, nearly to overload, but it's beginning to get better. I can't really tell.

Could you elaborate on how its going there? I'm asking cause my grandma lives in Poland.

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In a single image:

 

[Ragnarok]

Right now I'm more concerned with how the U.S. and EU are refusing to give their vaccine formulas to developing countries so they can create their own doses because companies are more interested in their profit margins. By the very nature of how viruses work, the longer this goes on without getting eradicated, the more likely it is that the virus will mutate and new variants will show up which are resistant or immune to the current vaccines, which then have the risk of being spread internationally.

 

[Amazon Climber]

Right now I'm more concerned with how the U.S. and EU are refusing to give their vaccine formulas to developing countries so they can create their own doses because companies are more interested in their profit margins. By the very nature of how viruses work, the longer this goes on without getting eradicated, the more likely it is that the virus will mutate and new variants will show up which are resistant or immune to the current vaccines, which then have the risk of being spread internationally.

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And just think of what that'll do for their profit margins.

 

[Aleh]

And just think of what that'll do for their profit margins.

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Vaccines are, generally speaking, really shitty at making profits for pharmaceutical companies. Ragnarok's analysis is at least somewhat inaccurate based just on that. I'd like to inquire as to his sources.

 

[Imabot]

Right now I'm more concerned with how the U.S. and EU are refusing to give their vaccine formulas to developing countries so they can create their own doses because companies are more interested in their profit margins. By the very nature of how viruses work, the longer this goes on without getting eradicated, the more likely it is that the virus will mutate and new variants will show up which are resistant or immune to the current vaccines, which then have the risk of being spread internationally.

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I'm not sure if this is just about profit. It is one of the reasons. But there's also a concern of market being flooded with bootleg or less efficient cheap vaccines.

Making an actually efficient vaccines harder to get because they are no longer imported because they are more expensive and there less produced because everyone else is making their own. And Vaccine isn't something you can just but on e-bay or Amazon and have it shipped internationally and think it's save to inject yourself with this.

 

[rocket501]

Also, to put it bluntly, several of the better vaccines right now (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna) are bleeding-edge MRNA vaccines that most developing countries simply do not have the equipment to manufacture. Attempting to acquire the equipment and trained people to operate it is impractical for the reasonable future. The Oxford-Astrazeneca, Johnson and Johnson, and Sputnik V are non-replicating viral vector which overall isn't quite as good and while the equipment isn't quite as complex or expensive as MRNA, is usually still too complex for them to manufacture. There's the protein subunit vaccine (Novavax), also hard to make and haven't heard much about it overall.

Finally, it leaves the whole virus vaccine, demonstrated by Sinopharm and Sinovac. Compared to the rest, they are relatively simple to manufacture and some of these countries probably could make it with the resources and workers they have. However, neither of these are US or EU vaccines.

So, long story short, even if the US and EU did share the vaccine formulas for any of the first three types, they'd be effectively useless.

Getting everyone vaccinated ASAP (within reasonable limits) is indeed important and countries like the US and members of the EU are guilty of overbooking vaccines and taking too long to send off extra stock they have decided not to use to other countries, but this has started to happen, with the US starting to send AstraZeneca to Canada and Mexico. Also, I do indeed agree that vaccines tend to be relatively low-profit for the people who manufacture them.

 

[Aleh]

I'm not sure if this is just about profit. It is one if the reasons. But there's also a concern of market being flooded with bootleg or less efficient cheap vaccines.

Making an actually efficient vaccines harder to get because they are no longer imported because they are more expensive and there less produced because everyone else is making their own. And Vaccine isn't something you can just but on e-bay or Amazon and have it shipped internationally and think it's save to inject yourself with this.

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There's this. There's also the fact that making the vaccines requires specialized (and often patented) equipment. There's the fact that assorted components of the process were originally developed for other purposes and patented on their own. Then there's the fact that many of the facilities that would likely be used to make the "cheap" vaccines you mention have infamous quality control issues (feeding into the problems you brought up).

Then there's the liability side of things. Vaccine manufacture is, as I noted, barely profitable as-is. In fact, we ran into a crisis back in the early '80s when the pharmaceutical companies nearly stopped making the things altogether due to the liability issues brought up by early anti-vaxxer activity. We actually had to pass some pretty extensive legislation to keep that first demonized vaccine (the Diphtheria-Pertussis-Tetanus, or DTP, also known as TDaP) from being entirely dropped by everybody.

The problem is that that's just here in the US. Every country that makes or uses the vaccine has their own liability laws... and every additional manufacturer opens them up to additional angles of attack from lawsuits.

And remember that just fighting a lawsuit, even if you win it, costs money.

So, yeah, the manufacturers have good reason to be afraid to just hand the documentation out.

And then there's politics and other Rule 8 stuff thrown in on top of that.

 

[queermunist]

the US starting to send AstraZeneca to Canada and Mexico

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Only surplus vaccines, only a few thousand, of a vaccine that isn't approved by the FDA, and also they're only loans that have to be repaid.

It's baffling. China is out there using Sinopharm/Sinovac for vaccine diplomacy while America is hoarding, which is going to inevitably strengthen China's international relations while further isolating America. I have no idea what the rationale for this could possibly be, other than short-sighted selfishness (which, to be fair, describes America pretty well).

 

[rocket501]

Only surplus vaccines, only a few thousand, of a vaccine that isn't approved by the FDA, and also they're only loans that have to be repaid.

It's baffling. China is out there using Sinopharm/Sinovac for vaccine diplomacy while America is hoarding, which is going to inevitably strengthen China's international relations while further isolating America. I have no idea what the rationale for this could possibly be, other than short-sighted selfishness (which, to be fair, describes America pretty well).

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This is not entirely accurate, but close. It's more than "only a few thousand" with 2.5 million to Mexico and 1.5 million to Canada. However, this is out of 7 million doses currently available, so still rather disappointing. They should have been sent out as a gift (loan is IMHO stupid) a while ago and we should indeed send vaccines to countries other than just the ones that border us. While AstraZeneca is not currently approved by the FDA, this looks like it could change, but the three FDA approved vaccine makers should be able to produce enough vaccine even without AstraZeneca. However, the US is indeed failing at vaccine diplomacy versus china.

 

[Aleh]

I'd comment on the situation with vaccine diplomacy -- there are several issues with what's been said so far -- but I can't really get into that without breaking Rule 8.

(I've said before that I think Rule 8 is, at best, a ridiculously over-blunt instrument. It really, really is.)

 

[mishie]

Looks like I should be able to get a vaccine next week, I could have gotten it this week but I was too busy to pop over to get the shot. Plus we wanted to space out people getting them at work so we wouldn't all need to take a day off sick because of side effects or whatever. Overall though it shouldn't be much of a fuss, since it looks like all I need to do is just rock up, give them my name, show them my medicare card, and them stick around for 15 minutes after the jab to monitor for any reaction.

 

[TotalAbsolutism]

Only surplus vaccines, only a few thousand, of a vaccine that isn't approved by the FDA, and also they're only loans that have to be repaid.

It's baffling. China is out there using Sinopharm/Sinovac for vaccine diplomacy while America is hoarding, which is going to inevitably strengthen China's international relations while further isolating America. I have no idea what the rationale for this could possibly be, other than short-sighted selfishness (which, to be fair, describes America pretty well).

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If you are going to make claims like this take your time to ensure that they are accurate, and that you are not baiting Rule 8 topics. Reporting facts about what is happening is one thing, if those facts are accurate, and speculating as to political motives is another. Kindly do not do the latter.

 

[DestyNova]

I had a test for S-protein antibodies a month after my 2nd shot (Sputnik-V), it has shown that I've got them. I guess it means I'm alright.

Spoiler: Found a picture of a nearly-finished factory floor

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This looks like some cloning facility. I knew you were part of the lizard alien conspiracy!

 

[Highlord]

I got the second dose of Moderna yesterday, being an "essential worker" in biofuel. So important, in fact, that the jackass carpet dwellers from the office now working from home got their yearly bonus and raise, while we operators got fucked.

Anyway, side effects only from the second poke, and even that was just some soreness and swelling around the injection site, a headache, and just a general feeling of shittiness that only lasted a few hours after I woke up this morning. Only other thing to report is my conspiracy-theorist Qtard trumpist brother screaming in my face about endangering his life by bringing a bioweapon into the house, and how his Army NBC training from 30 years ago means he knows more about infectious diseases that Fauci (who is totally a lying, evil fraudster out to tred on you and take your freedom) the entire CDC and the sum total of modern virology and medical science.

It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so fucking pathetic. I once respected the man.

 

[Selias]

First AstraZeneca, and now Johnson & Johnson. I think I'll wait a month or two before I get my vaccine. See if anything pops up with the others.

 

[Amazon Climber]

First AstraZeneca, and now Johnson & Johnson. I think I'll wait a month or two before I get my vaccine. See if anything pops up with the others.

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Isn't it literally a less than one in a million side effect?

 

[Aleh]

Isn't it literally a less than one in a million side effect?

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Yep, and the AstraZeneca rollout was... honestly rather hasty. Still a rare as fuck side effect.

And, well, the issue is likely a bit more complicated.

But, as noted, it's still a heck of a lot better than the odds with COVID itself.

 

[rocket501]

I personally would be perfectly willing to get the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. That said, Moderna and Pfizer use a different vaccine type, so if you are concerned about J&J, you could try to get one of those instead.

 

[Aleh]

I personally would be perfectly willing to get the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. That said, Moderna and Pfizer use a different vaccine type, so if you are concerned about J&J, you could try to get one of those instead.

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I wouldn't... but that's because I've already had my first shot of Moderna and am scheduled to get my second dose tomorrow. If I didn't have that conflict? Hell yes, bring on the J&J.

 

[Amazon Climber]

I wouldn't... but that's because I've already had my first shot of Moderna and am scheduled to get my second dose tomorrow. If I didn't have that conflict? Hell yes, bring on the J&J.

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Pfizer here. Can't wait for that second dose.

 

[Pef]

I spoke today with a work colleague, sick with Covid, and locked in the house. He still claims it's a conspiracy and that he will never use a vaccine.
I told him he won't need to, not now. He either gets antibodies naturally, or he dies.

 

[evildice]

I told him he won't need to, not now. He either gets antibodies naturally, or he dies.

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How long do COVID antibodies last?

When I got screened to participate in a vaccine study, the doctors told me all of mine would have been gone in less than two months, and the mRNA vaccine was supposed to do a time-release specifically to increase the duration of the immune system's defenses.

Like, they don't check if you've ever had it, they can only check if you currently have it because its markers disappear from your system too quickly.

It's not like chicken pox.