Dungeon Crawler Quest(Original Fantasy)

[redaeth]

We handled a level 7 boss in the Bull Lightning Drake and in the Young Cave Kraken was level 8 as well. By the Kracken example the bonus boss will probably be 7 though. Not 8. We can handle it.

 

[Arkeus]

We handled a level 7 boss in the Bull Lightning Drake and in the Young Cave Kraken was level 8 as well. By the Kracken example the bonus boss will probably be 7 though. Not 8. We can handle it.

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We can handle it, but we can't give it the proper trashing we want to give it.

This is the dungeon that killed two of Maya's team members. We want to be at least level 5, with each of us a shiny new skill and accessory when we go there, and just roll over everything.

 

[Xicree]

We handled a level 7 boss in the Bull Lightning Drake and in the Young Cave Kraken was level 8 as well. By the Kracken example the bonus boss will probably be 7 though. Not 8. We can handle it.

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Bonus bosses are always 2 levels above cap. Regular bosses are always at level cap, and average creatures 2 levels below cap.

 

[redaeth]

We can handle it, but we can't give it the proper trashing we want to give it.

This is the dungeon that killed two of Maya's team members. We want to be at least level 5, with each of us a shiny new skill and accessory when we go there, and just roll over everything.

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Why do we have to be level 5? I'm pretty sure we could trash it right now.

Bonus bosses are always 2 levels above cap. Regular bosses are always at level cap, and average creatures 2 levels below cap.

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Wrong. Wailing Cavern D is a level 7 dungeon. The bonus boss was a level 8.

Wailing Cavern
Level Cap 5/7/10
Ranks Unlocked: E D C

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.

Bonus Triggered!
The Child of the Deep Rises.

It's still the same thing as before, though you suspect the level has increased. You know what it is now though, To your eyes, it shows up as a Young Cave Kraken, level eight.

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[Arkeus]

Why do we have to be level 5? I'm pretty sure we could trash it right now.

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It will be our first 5-people dungeon. There is a sharp jump in difficulty both for rank of dungeon and for people recommended to complete it. I am reasonably sure we could trash it, but as it's a trauma of Maya I want to be certain we can.

Wrong. Wailing Cavern D is a level 7 dungeon. The bonus boss was a level 8.

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Yeah, it's not the bonus boss level that worries me, it's the "they resist ice magic", "It's a 5-people dungeon", "We want to make it feel like a cakewalk".

 

[redaeth]

Bottlenecking the most level and size appropriate dungeon is silly.

"they resist ice magic"

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We have water magic, and if they will either be weak against lightning or fire which Sera has. Most likely fire being undead and all.

"It's a 5-people dungeon"

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We are a five people and just stomped a four person dungeon that is 1 level higher. We barely had to use our Amiritas there and Shimah had plenty left over for her second dungeon run.

"We want to make it feel like a cakewalk".

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I'm pretty sure it will be. Maya took the dungeon underleveled, undermanned, underequipped and got squashed.

We are none of those things right now. Our gear is top rate. Each of us will have additional skills and Maya is only one level from being at the same position as the boss of the dungeon.

We are ready.

 

[tenchifew]

[X] Al
-[X] 2 Amrita
-[X] 1 Potion
-[X] 1 Burn Salve
[X] Maya
-[X] 1 Potion
-[X] 1 Burn Salve
[X] Anshelm
-[X] Hi Potion
-[X] 2 Burn Salve
[X] Sell and split the money
-[X] [Burning Blade] A sword holding the residual heat of lava, deals a small amount of fire damage. 120
[X] What Do
-[X] Hug your friends. You nearly lost them all. Hug Maya especially. Resist burying yourself in her bosom.
-[X] First, shopping! Go make sure everyone gets their new jobs. Especially Sera should grab a non-fire elementalist job. Check around for anything interesting for you. Getting everyone tougher will help you feel secure.
-[X] Fill out the Ashen Grotto and Drake's Nest on your pamphlet. A little busywork to take your minds off things.
-[X] You... don't feel like sleeping alone tonight. That was too close. See if Sera would mind sharing a room. You'll take the bathtub.
-[X] That would leave Shimah all alone though. Are there rooms with more then one bed?

 

[Darkened]

I think tomorrow we should do the Graveyard. It is the only full party dungeon we know about that is both low level and requiring a full party It should give us the most bang for our buck in terms of both XP and JP. We've faced level 7s in the Drake place with no problem and Maya hit level 5. Graveyard is only level 6. We are ready.

For our morning run, Maya alone probably at the point where she could solo both E and D ranks of Ogre and Goblins. Our gear drops have been that good. So my recommendation is to do Goblin's Grotto or Ogre's Den D rank first with a split party. Maya and Shimah in one group, Anshelm, Sera and Al in the next. We'll crush it pretty much. Then we head to the Graveyard full party.

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Ogre's Den D with 5 paid 5JP without bonus. This suggests 25 total. Or rather, it seems like it would give about 8-9 to a 3 man team depending on if we always round up or just round closest. Ashen Grotto gave 12 JP. If we're doing a 3-man, we should do that. Especially since we just got a lot of loot to be even better at Grotto and Sera can actually do stuff there once she gets a new job. Even two would only get 12-13 JP, the same as ashen but with worse seeming drops. The only reason to preference Ogre's is to either solo it or because we're doing Ashen later in the day.

The other option might be (Since Shimah can't solo) Shimah+Maya do something, Al, Sera and Anshelm all solo E rank Ogres. That could give us up to 16ish JP per person, enough to all but ensure we hit both C rank and level 5 tomorrow. I'd want to check with Shimah and Sera, both of whom I trust to give a fairly decent analysis, before doing so, but if they think it's doable, it's probably our best bet to hit 5/water tomorrow.





As for being ready for the Graveyard? Sure, we'll probably beat it. But it's not about being ready. It's about crushing it, at least for me. We're not looking for loot there, or XP. It's a matter of revenge and beating Maya's trauma. It's not about just being good enough. Given that we're maybe a day from hitting 5 along with everyone else, AND we still have Ashen C to unlock (it's Sera's best farm location, we should make sure we get it and it should be easier anyway) I don't really see the push to do Graveyard.

It'll take one day, or at most a day and a half, to get the whole party up to level 5.

That said, we're not grinding that dungeon. I am all for maxing XP/JP gain, but when it's "Go back to the place that traumatized your best friend, where two of her closest allies died over and over and over again because it's 2 more JP" that's kind messed up. So it doesn't really matter that it's the most level/size appropriate dungeon for us.

 

[Guile]

So... how about we just keep the band together permanently now? No splitting up and taking on lesser events.

Levelling slightly slower is still worth the margin of safety.

 

[Darkened]

So... how about we just keep the band together permanently now? No splitting up and taking on lesser events.

Levelling slightly slower is still worth the margin of safety.

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Why? We had significantly more risk in Drake's Nest than we did in our 2ish paragraph "no problem" run of Ashen Grotto.

We didn't even use a pot when we split up on Goblin Glade and Shimah only needed one amrita.

They are essentially the safest thing we've been doing.

Doing a level 5 dungeon meant for 3 people with 1 level 5 and 2 level 4s is going to be substantially safer than a level 6 meant for 5 people with 1 level 5 and 4 level 4s, looking at how close we are to the requirements.

Doing a level 7 meant for 4 is probably about as hard as that, though maybe not, the bigger dungeons seem to be correspondingly more lethal than would be assumed if party size and level weighed lethally, at least from my reading (IE: the level 5 is safer yet.)

The notion that doing dungeons like Drake's Nest or Graveyard over splitting up and grinding dungeons like Grotto or Ogre's Den is somehow safer is patently absurd.

Running harder dungeons together is both slower and riskier, but pays better. Personally, I'm not so eager to focus on gold (yet)

 

[Arkeus]

So... how about we just keep the band together permanently now? No splitting up and taking on lesser events.

Levelling slightly slower is still worth the margin of safety.

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Splitting up the party arguably is less risky than not splitting up but doing harder events. It not only means we get less levels, but it also means we hit walls where we can't get either gear or levels at all because we aren't maximizing our gain, and so if something bad happen (like, you know, the invasion in a couple of weeks) we get killed because we are undergeared and underlevelled.

EDIT: And, yes, splittingup the party in the right dungeon is safer and give more.

 

[Guile]

And if we'd run into the knight mob on the way back from Ashen Grotto instead of after picking up Shimah?

'Random encounters increasing' worries me.

 

[mrttao]

We should not do the graveyard yet. the increase in recommended party size means increase in dfficulty, and the enemies are resistant to ice meaning no CC, and I want to curb stomp it when we do it due to how it ended for maya before.

I think we should stick to more middle of the road dungeons, especially well known ones (we already got told how our info saved lives and we know our own life was saved by info others provided). Maybe do the same 2 dungeons we did today again tomorrow for reliable and easier loot and XP.

Also, we should aim at 3 easier dungeons instead of 1 hard dungeon 1 easy. More profitable, safer, and we are getting close to the point where we can reliably buy stuff. It takes less time to tear through such a dungeon, it wastes fewer resources increasing income. And those income blessings stack so when we split the party we split the blessings

I am also not a fan of splitting up the party ever. for one thing, what happens to the split up party if they have a random encounter? This is especially true now that a dark lord is rising. That level 15 would have been a death sentence had it encountered just 2 or 3 of our members. remember that the dungeons are hours apart. Even the closest dungeon is a full hour walk from the city.
Not to mention that the enemies inside dungeons are supposed to be getting an intelligence upgrade soon, that means more "gank the healer/mage" mentality and better teamwork. So splitting up is very dangerous even against inferior foes.

 

[redaeth]

I... don't really like grinding. I can see the point in doing it half the time like we are doing with the lower level dungeons part of the day. But for the other half? I want to explore. I want to advance. I don't just want to stagnate doing the same actions again and again. I like the way we've been opening up new dungeons every day or so. I want to continue that.

And since the Graveyard is the only low level one we know of remaining to explore I want to explore it. It helps that it is now well within the range of our levels and most of our gear is from similar leveled dungeons. Helping Maya utterly conquer it to show she has surpassed it is just icing on the cake.

 

[yrsillar]

at Arkeus, Yes both of those things are true, for the starting jobs anyway, and the skill is determined by class,Dungeoneer is the Hunter skill.

 

[mrttao]

I... don't really like grinding. I can see the point in doing it half the time like we are doing with the lower level dungeons part of the day. But for the other half? I want to explore. I want to advance. I don't just want to stagnate doing the same actions again and again. I like the way we've been opening up new dungeons every day or so. I want to continue that.

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Please remember that this is "dungeon crawler quest"

Grinding is advancing. It earns XP and money. levels and equipment. And doing the same mission 3-4 times to levelup and gain loot is hardly grinding. We are still doing new dungeons, just not when underleveled

Going to too hard dungeons isn't advancing or exploring, its just taking unnecessary risks for lower rewards. and the potential for death. We keep on seeing people die and have come close to it ourselves. Just because you aren't underleveled when you do a dungeon doesn't mean you aren't exploring.

 

[Arkeus]

I... don't really like grinding. I can see the point in doing it half the time like we are doing with the lower level dungeons part of the day. But for the other half? I want to explore. I want to advance. I don't just want to stagnate doing the same actions again and again. I like the way we've been opening up new dungeons every day or so. I want to continue that.

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But we haven't done Ash Grotto rank D yet, have we? or goblin Glade rank D?
And if we were to do Goblin Glade rank D with two people, and then Ash Grotto rank D, we can expect to get to level 5 and rank C today, which is one of the very important milestones for adventuring (and we can then equip Water Elementalism crystal, another accessory, and the Wind Magic skill), so that tomorrow is revenge day: Crystal Lake D-rank and Lost Graveyard.

 

[redaeth]

Please remember that this is "dungeon crawler quest"

Grinding is advancing. It earns XP and money. levels and equipment. And doing the same mission 3-4 times to levelup and gain loot is hardly grinding. We are still doing new dungeons, just not when underleveled

Going to too hard dungeons isn't advancing or exploring, its just taking unnecessary risks for lower rewards. and the potential for death. We keep on seeing people die and have come close to it ourselves. Just because you aren't underleveled when you do a dungeon doesn't mean you aren't exploring.

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I don't see it that way. I also don't see the Graveyard as 'too hard.'

I truly believe it will be pretty damn easy for our party.

Unless you can demonstrate the difference between Wailing Cavern D (7 level, 3 party recommendation) and Drake's Nest E (7 level, 4 party recommendation) and quantify the difference as being exponential or something grand like that I just don't see such a big sweeping difference. Is Drake's Nest harder? Yes. But not extraordinarily so. Just a little to compensate for the extra party member. As the Graveyard is a lower level I am expecting the difficulty to be similar to the Nest. Something we had no problems with and we just went up in power.

 

[mrttao]

...

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You are mixing up my arguments, the post you replied to was about the unrelated argument of "grind' vs "new and exciting (but harder) dungeons every day"

For the graveyard specifically my argument was:

We should not do the graveyard yet. the increase in recommended party size means increase in dfficulty, and the enemies are resistant to ice meaning no CC, and I want to curb stomp it when we do it due to how it ended for maya before.

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I agree with you that it should have (key word should) comparable difficulty to the nest due to being lower level but bigger party. But the nest wasn't a cakewalk and survival depended a lot about our knowledge, we don't have such comprehensive knowledge about the graveyard (maya never finished it, her party died), all we know is that the enemies there are going to be resistant to our damage and CC and deal a lot of nasty status effects

 

[Guile]

But we haven't done Ash Grotto rank D yet, have we? or goblin Glade rank D?
And if we were to do Goblin Glade rank D with two people, and then Ash Grotto rank D, we can expect to get to level 5 and rank C today, which is one of the very important milestones for adventuring (and we can then equip Water Elementalism crystal, another accessory, and the Wind Magic skill), so that tomorrow is revenge day: Crystal Lake D-rank and Lost Graveyard.

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Going up a rank in difficulty is less interesting than opening a new dungeon.

 

[redaeth]

Going to too hard dungeons isn't advancing or exploring, its just taking unnecessary risks for lower rewards. and the potential for death. We keep on seeing people die and have come close to it ourselves. Just because you aren't underleveled when you do a dungeon doesn't mean you aren't exploring.

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I was replying to this bit with the second paragraph. Since the only dungeon I'm advocating exploring is the Graveyard.

The grinding argument I countered with a "my opinion is different then your opinion."

I don't see it that way.

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[Arkeus]

Going up a rank in difficulty is less interesting than opening a new dungeon.

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Yeah, we'd have to disagree there. Even worse, you are arguing to go to the dungeon where one of our party members saw two friends being killed just because you personally think it looks cooler.

 

[Guile]

Yeah, we'd have to disagree there. Even worse, you are arguing to go to the dungeon where one of our party members saw two friends being killed just because you personally think it looks cooler.

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You're conflating me and Alice.

I think the Graveyard is cool, and we should go there because of that. Al, presumably, has her own reasons.

 

[Arkeus]

You're conflating me and Alice.

I think the Graveyard is cool, and we should go there because of that. Al, presumably, has her own reasons.

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...You are actually saying "a°)We should not act in character?, b°) Possibly rubbing Maya's face in her trauma when we are not 100% the dungeon will be a stomp is cool", or am i misunderstanding you?

 

[redaeth]

Yeah, we'd have to disagree there. Even worse, you are arguing to go to the dungeon where one of our party members saw two friends being killed just because you personally think it looks cooler.

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Cooler does not equal Interesting. I'm not into exploring new places because it is popular or because it will get us fame. I'm into exploring new places because I want to learn. I want to see new things. The most we'll see in the Goblin Glade is new moves as they get more SP to use them. Maybe a few new loot drops.

As far as Maya's pain? You know the easiest way to help mitigate it? Doing the dungeon and proving we won't die. We don't have to roll over it. We just have to beat it. It won't erase those deaths she has suffered but it will say we won't die on her. Not now. Not because of this.

In fact over leveling then defeating the dungeon in this case can actually be harmful. Over abundance of caution can be just as damaging as over abundance of bravado. We will need to take risks throughout our career as Branded. Showing Maya that we can be trusted to do so and not die as a result is pretty damn important.

 

[mrttao]

snip

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You yourself claim it is equal difficulty to the drake nest. where we could have died from, for example, being knocked over the cliff. you are massively understimating the lethality of dungeons. Especially when going blind into a dungeon we don't know what to expect in (in drake nest another adventurer gave us a full lowdown on it before we went. we don't know anyone who finished the grave)

 

[Arkeus]

Cooler does not equal Interesting. I'm not into exploring new places because it is popular or because it will get us fame. I'm into exploring new places because I want to learn. I want to see new things. The most we'll see in the Goblin Glade is new moves as they get more SP to use them. Maybe a few new loot drops.

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Yeah, i disagree. We see how monster evolves. We see new monsters. We see how dungeons evolves.

As far as Maya's pain? You know the easiest way to help mitigate it? Doing the dungeon and proving we won't die. We don't have to roll over it. We just have to beat it. It won't erase those deaths she has suffered but it will say we won't die on her. Not now. Not because of this.

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Unless she freezes or goes berserk when we get to where they died, and suddenly having to save her destroys the teamwork and someone else almost dies because of her. Or, worse, dies.

In fact over leveling then defeating the dungeon in this case can actually be harmful. Over abundance of caution can be just as damaging as over abundance of bravado. We will need to take risks throughout our career as Branded. Showing Maya that we can be trusted to do so and not die as a result is pretty damn important.

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I agree about over-abundance of caution being bad, but this is an important milestone for Maya, and I am asking for one more day in order to be /clearly/ able to help her out in this dungeon, and not 'almost certainly'.

I am also unsure how you can say 'we have over-levelled it' when we have never done a 5-man dungeon yet. This will enter new ground.

 

[redaeth]

You yourself claim it is equal difficulty to the drake nest. where we could have died from, for example, being knocked over the cliff. you are massively understimating the lethality of dungeons. Especially when going blind into a dungeon we don't know what to expect in (in drake nest another adventurer gave us a full lowdown on it before we went. we don't know anyone who finished the grave)

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And you are overestimating them. With Sera and Shimah we are well suited to taking undead on. Sera is going to be strong against undead thanks to fire, she after all took out a vampire solo and she will be wielding lightning soon which is the strongest single target magic. Shimah is a perfect counter for status effects not to mention the many, many panacea we've picked up.

Graveyards are also not known for mile high cliffs.

There will probably be spawners. Undead are known for swarming. However we've handled spawners before. Even if they act like the bats in the Wailing Cavern maze where you have to bypass them instead of fighting... well we've done that too. Alice is perceptive. She'll figure things out.

 

[redaeth]

I am also unsure how you can say 'we have over-levelled it' when we have never done a 5-man dungeon yet. This will enter new ground.

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No more new ground then the first time we did a two man dungeon with two people or a three man dungeon with three.

 

[Arkeus]

No more new ground then the first time we did a two man dungeon with two people or a three man dungeon with three.

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Actually, yes, more new grounds. As we first did a two man dungeons with two people after we had already done that dungeon and overlevelled dungeons that were twice as hard as that one, and we did the 3 man dungeon with three after we had already done a dungeon that had the exact same info from Divine Eye and then done the D-rank of that one.

Also, would you have wanted to do the Ash Grotto with three people were it the place Maya's companions had died?

Anyway, this is going in circle, so i'll take a break from this argument.