Feudal Quest

[staplesdex2]

And the thougnt I wanted to spout out is how to conquer the whole continent in 3-4 years and become it's absolute ruler giving us leeway to marry anyone we want, or gain a harem at the end of it.

 

[Graig]

What opinion do Dominic think that his father would have of him leaving for the crusade? Would he consider leaving Corzu to be irresponsible? Dominic is supposed to demonstrate his abilities by governing Corzu. On the other hand he will have solved most of the major problems once the beastmen are gone.

Edit: what languages does Dominic know?

 

[Robotninja]

Consider what we could do for soldiers with a modified version of the harem spell meant to make the subjects better soldiers/comrades.

 

[Adyen]

I'm going to quickly point out that taking in refuges is going to put us in bad standings with those who are faithful to the church (ie Ezti) unless all the refuges are willing to convert (which is honestly not going to happen unless we can convince them of this).

Taking in refuges is (for all practical reasons) breaking away from the dominate religious faith here, but that might not be a bad thing if we're going to be doing more with the Chosen and their ilk.

 

[fitzgerald]

@ShaperV

Questions for the Dwarves

1) Corzu currently lacks places to take refugees. What would it cost to gain Dwarven assistance in creating new towns, roads, and other artifacts

2) Armies require weapons, armor and other fine forged goods. Would they be willing to sell said goods?

3) Corzu would very much welcome a trading outpost with very favorable terms for Dwarf Merchants, is there anything in particular they'd be interested in?

Question for Aunt

1) Do any of these marriage prospects bring with them a Barony?

2) Can she help us prepare Chesna to debut in the Capital?

3) Given the situation surrounding the upcoming Regency, is there any politics to keep in mind?

 

[Jiven]

I really don't want to discuss our marriage prospects with our aunt, everyone will be aware of that before the end of the month.

 

[Thomasfoolery]

This isn't Lala, it's a different aunt. Though I do wonder, based on what we've found out about Pavel if perhaps Lala is more competent than she let's on, and is running a long con.

Anyway I'm fine with being noncommittal about Ezti like Arkeus wants and seing what options she puts forward I suppose. Also on reflection while I don't feel it's practical so sign up with the dwarves for this year I do want to go next year, as we'll hopefully be pretty settled by then.

 

[Captain]

Refugees represent a potential tax base, let's figure out how many our land could support by talking to Traian and spitballing the numbers. We don't want to commit to more than we can physically keep fed.

I think we should bring up Ezti as a potentially strong match. We like her, she likes us, the only sticking point is the looming war and that'll be less of a problem if we can put up a strong showing of force. Rogatica struck me as being a practical dude, and if it's no longer practical for him to invade because we've got a strong army and he knows it, we'll be golden.

Kat's cool and all but she's not bringing land with her. Likewise, we've got plenty to keep us busy at home for the next couple of years. It's the wrong time for us to get involved in an Egyptian crusade.

As to the votes:
[X] +1 to a stat while in Corzu
- Soul
[X] Maintain the +1 stat bonus while in neighboring lands

 

[Adyen]

Refugees are a potential tax base only depending on when they arrive and how much they arrive with.

I'm going to assume that the Egyptian leaders aren't stupid and they actually keep all the foodstuff and seeds while shipping the people away.

This means we're going to have to pay upkeep for their first year (food and lodging) before they can become somewhat self-sufficient and pay us back for whatever we give for them to start up.

Also... As I mentioned, someone who's devoted to the local religion like Etzi is not likely to like an influx of infidels unless we manage to convert them. And the refugees might not like being converted. So that's a big tossup there.


Annnd, forgot to vote:
[X] +1 to a stat while in Corzu
- Soul
[X] Maintain the +1 stat bonus while in neighboring lands

Edit: If we go with the refuges, it might be more worth it to match up with Kat simply because she can locate rich land and all that. In fact, we should probably suggest that to her so she can tell us where it is and we buy her tome back with the income we earn from it.

 

[Captain]

I'm not thinking short term here. The thing that makes land valuable is the labor to work it. Even marginal land can become worthwhile if you have a large enough labor surplus. If it takes the refugee settlers a year to get established and producing, that's pretty good (and you'll note that I advocate remaining in our domain for the next couple of years at least). If we marry Etzi and get her barony, we'll have all the more room to shuffle our new labor force around and spread them out among the population centers (to properly integrate them).

 

[Adyen]

I'm not thinking short term here. The thing that makes land valuable is the labor to work it. Even marginal land can become worthwhile if you have a large enough labor surplus. If it takes the refugee settlers a year to get established and producing, that's pretty good (and you'll note that I advocate remaining in our domain for the next couple of years at least). If we marry Etzi and get her barony, we'll have all the more room to shuffle our new labor force around and spread them out among the population centers (to properly integrate them).

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Yes, but Etzi might not want infidels like the Egyptians (as I'm pretty sure they don't believe in the local gods) on her lands and I'm not sure we CAN support the refuges alone (aren't we practically running month to month already)? Even if you want to think Long Term, I'm not sure we can pass the hurdle of supporting them in the short-term.

I mean, sure we probably can get Kat to help since this is about her people (if she hasn't been lying to us), but this isn't something we just say "Oh, ya, we want them" and they come with all the stuff needed for living.

 

[Arkeus]

Yes, but Etzi might not want infidels like the Egyptians (as I'm pretty sure they don't believe in the local gods) on her lands

Click to shrink...

That's... probably not true.

Now, i'll need ShaperV's take on this, but Khersis seems to be one of those gods that like to conquer and convert. Ezti herself seems a damn more accepting of people of different beliefs than the average (she had no problem with Dita believing in Inovia for example). Both of those points might mean that Ezti might relish the idea of helping refugees and try to convert them.

I mean, sure we probably can get Kat to help since this is about her people (if she hasn't been lying to us), but this isn't something we just say "Oh, ya, we want them" and they come with all the stuff needed for living.

Click to shrink...

Except that's blatantly untrue. Even in Corzu we currently have at least two empty villages: Tax evader village and Dark Well Moon village. Furthemore, with Kat we can increase harvests/etc, which means we can deal with the short term quite easily.

No, the real issues with taking in Refugees will be being seen as accepting barbarians into our lands (E.G, racists will hate us) and the possibility of diseases spreading. The later must be something we prepare for in advance, at least, while the former is something of an ongoing project.

 

[Adyen]

Except that's blatantly untrue. Even in Corzu we currently have at least two empty villages: Tax evader village and Dark Well Moon village. Furthemore, with Kat we can increase harvests/etc, which means we can deal with the short term quite easily.

No, the real issues with taking in Refugees will be being seen as accepting barbarians into our lands (E.G, racists will hate us) and the possibility of diseases spreading. The later must be something we prepare for in advance, at least, while the former is something of an ongoing project.

Click to shrink...

Uh... Empty villages doesn't mean that they're filled with seeds that would allow farmers to grow corps or money to buy food or weapons to hunt for fur/food. All they provide is probably very shoddy living conditions that the refuges would have to improve themselves if we don't help them (like provide equipment needed to repair homes ie axes to chop trees/nails to use).

Unless, like I mentioned above, their Egyptian overlords decided to send with them anything that would allow them to survive a season before crops could be grown or money to buy whatever they needed.

Edit: It'll also depend on what season they get sent. If they get sent during Winter, there's fuck all they can do about growing crops.

 

[Captain]

Yes, but Etzi might not want infidels like the Egyptians (as I'm pretty sure they don't believe in the local gods) on her lands and I'm not sure we CAN support the refuges alone (aren't we practically running month to month already)? Even if you want to think Long Term, I'm not sure we can pass the hurdle of supporting them in the short-term.

I mean, sure we probably can get Kat to help since this is about her people (if she hasn't been lying to us), but this isn't something we just say "Oh, ya, we want them" and they come with all the stuff needed for living.

Click to shrink...

We've got a grain surplus that has been traditionally sold at low prices on the markets the river barge system has access to, as well as the ability to influence Grandfather to adjust the river shipping rates to be more favorable for internal trade once we have Etzi's land. In fact we've put a lot of thought and discussion into how to maximize our grain tax benefit through using a silo to store it and use it for internal barter. Which we could use to outfit the refugees when they start arriving in a year or so.

We're not running hand to mouth; we don't have a giant bankroll either, but we're not broke and these lands can bring in a lot more profit if we're not silly.

If we marry Etzi, the issue of her not liking Egyptians is neatly solved. She'll be our wife, and the lands will be ours effectively. Her objections (if any) would be a domestic issue, not a political one, and could be solved by being a charming husband.

If we choose not to marry Etzi, we'll only commit to the number of refugees our man Traian thinks our lands could easily support.

 

[Adyen]

We've got a grain surplus that has been traditionally sold at low prices on the markets the river barge system has access to, as well as the ability to influence Grandfather to adjust the river shipping rates to be more favorable for internal trade once we have Etzi's land. In fact we've put a lot of thought and discussion into how to maximize our grain tax benefit through using a silo to store it and use it for internal barter. Which we could use to outfit the refugees when they start arriving in a year or so.

Click to shrink...

Ok, I'm about to sleep so I don't want to do more work than needed. Can we have Shaper give some sort of feedback on this idea before I say anything? In fact, I was SHOT DOWN about the granary's use to maximize trade/profits, so I'm not sure why this is suddenly popping up. (People keep telling me that the reason the granary was made is to keep surplus grain in case of emergencies, even when I mentioned it was brought up that it was a waste just to do so and we can gain more profits from putting it at our center of trade.)

We're not running hand to mouth; we don't have a giant bankroll either, but we're not broke and these lands can bring in a lot more profit if we're not silly.

Click to shrink...

Yes, but that takes time - and we don't know the exact costs for supporting the refuges until they can start paying taxes.

If we marry Etzi, the issue of her not liking Egyptians is neatly solved. She'll be our wife, and the lands will be ours effectively. Her objections (if any) would be a domestic issue, not a political one, and could be solved by being a charming husband.

Click to shrink...

... I'm not sure if I should even respond to this if you think that the main problem with marrying Etzi is the fact that we can force her to accept we have people from different religions living in our lands, and that this is the biggest problem we need to solve for choosing her.

 

[Seventeen]

[X] Accept as many refugees as Traian thinks we can accommodate.
[X] Decline the opportunity to crusade.


[X] +1 to a stat while in Corzu: Soul
[X] Sense supernatural evil within 1 mile while in Corzu.

 

[Captain]

Ok, I'm about to sleep so I don't want to do more work than needed. Can we have Shaper give some sort of feedback on this idea before I say anything? In fact, I was SHOT DOWN about the granary's use to maximize trade/profits, so I'm not sure why this is suddenly popping up. (People keep telling me that the reason the granary was made is to keep surplus grain in case of emergencies, even when I mentioned it was brought up that it was a waste just to do so and we can gain more profits from putting it at our center of trade.)

Yes, but that takes time - and we don't know the exact costs for supporting the refuges until they can start paying taxes.
... I'm not sure if I should even respond to this if you think that the main problem with marrying Etzi is the fact that we can force her to accept we have people from different religions living in our lands, and that this is the biggest problem we need to solve for choosing her.

Click to shrink...

Personally I don't see her having a problem with it. I was pointing out that it is a non-issue either way.

Once we have the grain silo we'll have flexibility in how we use our taxed grain. Emergencies, economic development, commodity trading- they're all enabled by having the silo. It's a simple matter to change our minds about how to use stored grain, once we have it.

 

[Walkir]

Well, if we can't train stats, that only makes stat bonuses worth even more. I wouldn't be against the stat bonus and maintaining it outside of Corzu....

I definitely agree top the refugees... Might even shift the culture a bit towards making polygamy acceptable.
The crusade would grant a lot of prestige if we're successful, but it would mean leaving Corzu alone. I'd send that Ditrik guy everyone in his area fears in the hope he dies there, though.

Ezti is my preferred main wife.

 

[Jiven]

Could we send this knight person in his village ?

 

[Arkeus]

Well, if we can't train stats, that only makes stat bonuses worth even more. I wouldn't be against the stat bonus and maintaining it outside of Corzu....

Click to shrink...

Yeah, as far as i know Stats Bonus can be gained via:
-Magical means (Regency, Flesh, Wizardry, Fire, Possibly Force and Holy...).
-Untapped Potential.
-Being 'gifted' by a Demon/Angel. It's a magical means, but separate enough that it needs its own category.
-The results of using a stat for years of high-potency efforts, especially if we do epic quests. E.G, if we get our Flesh/Fire/Force to 4 and do adventures we might get a Soul stat Bonus even beyond our upcoming untapped potential.

it's also possible that epic gear gives stat bonus.

Anyway, i had been looking at stat sheets, and it appears that Dita gained, this adventure: Monster lore 1, Tactics 1, +1 training Leadership, +1 training Holy, +1 training Light. Given what happens during this adventure, it sounds VERY likely that the Tactics/Leadership/Monster Lore skills were gained because we pushed her into taking responsibility for the Chosen. I found this fairly interesting (and great).

This also means that we can now use Dita to lead Rangers for 'Hunt' action, especially as we have the argument that she'll probably end up leading Chosen into combat anyway and needs the practice.

 

[Walkir]

Could we send this knight person in his village ?

Click to shrink...

This guy?

Your visit to Sir Ditrik's hamlet goes well enough. Ditrik doesn't especially impress you as a leader, but he seems to be a competent swordsman and keeps his gear and warhorse in decent shape. He also has a couple of men at arms, although their equipment is poor. Ditrik seems a little embarrassed about that, and complains that the hamlet really doesn't have enough people to support a knight's retinue properly.

He seems a bit suspicious at first, but after some conversation he apparently decides that you really are who you say you are. After that he has no problem swearing fealty to you.

You note in passing that Sir Ditrik's villagers seem rather afraid of him, especially the three local girls who live with him. But that's his business, right?

Click to shrink...

Yeah, murder by crusade definitely would get my support.

I got the impression Corzu was simply forgotten, and this guy got used to being the only authority, the villagers being his personal toys. As much as I'd like to investigate him and have a scene where he openly shows that he's unused to not being top dog anymore (resulting in a backhand or an encounter with a whip from us or Bialis and a "silence, dog!")...
Just allowing that guy to die in the desert is an option that may even buy us prestige. Assuming his bad behavior happens far enough away to not become a stain on Corzu's honor, instead.

 

[ShaperV]

Also pity it seems the demon wasn't killed, I was optimistic after the previous post on the subject. Does that mean the chosen don't have holy fists after all?

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No, it just means that it's very difficult to permanently kill supernatural creatures like demons.

And the thougnt I wanted to spout out is how to conquer the whole continent in 3-4 years and become it's absolute ruler giving us leeway to marry anyone we want, or gain a harem at the end of it.

Click to shrink...

Sadly, there's no way that you going to expand that fast. The best you might reasonably hope for is to steadily upgrade Corzu, inherit a barony within a few years, and then maybe carve some pieces off your neighbors in the few years after that. If you want to expand faster than that, you're going to have to find some way to completely break the medieval paradigm of how things work.

What opinion do Dominic think that his father would have of him leaving for the crusade? Would he consider leaving Corzu to be irresponsible? Dominic is supposed to demonstrate his abilities by governing Corzu. On the other hand he will have solved most of the major problems once the beastmen are gone.

Click to shrink...

It mostly depends on what results you get. If you leave Corzu in a stable condition and return with a boatload of gold and a rep as a hero that will tend to impress them. However, if Corzu falls apart while you're gone and you don't accomplish much of anything then they'll think that you're just of boy running off to adventure and wasting your time.

Edit: what languages does Dominic know?

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Dominic does not currently speak any foreign languages. However, being a heroic type I'm going to assume that he's pretty good at picking them up. You'll need a translator at first, however if you spend several months surrounded by people who all speak a foreign language you'll tend to pick it up automatically.

Questions for the Dwarves

1) Corzu currently lacks places to take refugees. What would it cost to gain Dwarven assistance in creating new towns, roads, and other artifacts

Click to shrink...

That would be far more expensive than just paying locals to build these things. The dwarves to exceptional work, but they expect to be paid in gold, and paid well.

2) Armies require weapons, armor and other fine forged goods. Would they be willing to sell said goods?

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Yes, and again their goods would be of exceptional quality. However, they would also cost 3 to 4 times as much as buying the same items from human craftsman.

3) Corzu would very much welcome a trading outpost with very favorable terms for Dwarf Merchants, is there anything in particular they'd be interested in?

Click to shrink...

At the moment Corzu does not really produce anything except food, which the dwarves can easily buy much closer to their homelands. The dwarven kingdom is under the Alps, which is a long way from Borjeria.

Question for Aunt

1) Do any of these marriage prospects bring with them a Barony?

Click to shrink...

No. They would establish useful political alliances for the family, and have various other benefits, but neither of them would inherit any lands. That's one of the major reasons why she'll be impressed by the possibilities of a match with Ezti.

2) Can she help us prepare Chesna to debut in the Capital?

Click to shrink...

Yes, shall be happy to do that. She was actually under the impression that Lala didn't want to go, and was just making excuses. She'll be happy to help you double-team Nikolai, which will pretty will steamroller his efforts at resistance.

3) Given the situation surrounding the upcoming Regency, is there any politics to keep in mind?

Click to shrink...

That's probably several years away, so the details are hard to predict. However, you do know that your family is unpopular with the more rural baronies up beyond Rogatica and Timis. Getting the Czenes to either ally with you or stay neutral will also be a crucial issue, both because of their overall power and because of the position of their duchy.

– – – – –

As far as the refugees are concerned, to Dominic this seems like a huge opportunity but also a huge project. Corzu is mostly unsettled wilderness, and could easily support 10 times its current population. That would give you the income of a barony in a very compact territory, and you would then have the ability to build yourself up into a significant military power.

However, getting from here to there would be a tremendous amount of work.

The refugees are not going to be Egyptians. They're a race called the Faresa, who have been bred as slaves by the vampires for thousands of years. They have their own language and customs, which Kat knows only a little about. She has seen a few of them in the slave markets of Egypt from time to time, and describes them as a tall people with brown skin and dark hair, generally attractive and reasonably intelligent, but very mild-natured.

So your first problem will be the fact that you have no way to communicate with them. Also, the Pharaoh is going to ship them off with basically nothing but the clothes on their back and whatever small possessions they can carry with them. So they'll need to be fed, housed, and provided with all the tools and implements needed to begin farming. Considering how distant their homeland is, they're probably also used to farming different plants in a very different climate, and may well need a lot of instruction about local conditions to become productive in Borjeria. Clearing new land so they can farm it will also consume large amounts of labor, and of course constructing new peasant villages is expensive.

Overall, you're looking at at least 10 SP per person and a lot of personal projects solving general problems in order to get them to a minimum level of productivity. If you want to provide them with livestock and something better than ramshackle huts to live in it's probably going to cost two or three times that much.

However, there are some other possibilities that might be worth exploring. The Faresa aren't all peasant farmers. It sounds like they also have a lot of skilled craftsmen, as they maintain elaborate palaces for their vampire overlords. Many of the vampires practice human breeding as a hobby, so there are also all sorts of strange traits (some of them magical) to be found among the refugees. The dwarves are actually a bit concerned about finding someone willing to take in the more unusual refugees, since most Lords will be too suspicious of magic to take in people who can talk to animals, or animate their hair, or project their voices through stone walls, or other such odd tricks.

As for Ezti's response, your reading of her personality is that she'd welcome the opportunity to proselytize to the refugees. She would, however, insist on actually converting them to the true faith. She'd probably also want to teach them to speak Borjerian and adopt your local customs. Basically, she'd want to enlighten the poor ignorant barbarians and teach them to behave like proper civilized people.

Katiana points out slyly that there is one interesting advantage of ruling people who are used to being slaves to ruthless vampire overlords. No matter how you treat them they're going to think you're the best ruler imaginable, since after all you don't eat them or make a habit of torturing people death for amusement. So they would probably be a very loyal population.

 

[Walkir]

...we can get skilled craftsmen? Hot damn, this is one reason Prussia got rich, and as such powerful. Take the odd ones (can talk to animals? Talk about useful...) as a "payment" for getting the crafters. Or at least sell it as such, I'd take them anyway.

There's ariver to the west of Corzu if I read that map right, maybe we can establish a settlement between the Keep and there.

 

[Seventeen]

They're really just making the refugees sound even more desirable.

 

[Arkeus]

They're really just making the refugees sound even more desirable.

Click to shrink...

It really does- more expensive than i first thought, but damn desirable.

I am a bit worried about Ezti going full-on White Man's Burden, but it's not that surprising given what we know of her. It would just make it harder to enact other possibilities if we marry her.

I... kind of wanted to have at least some of them be part of Dita's church. I guess we could still convince Ezti to let the ones who wishes to to convert to Inovia, not all to Khersis, but it wouldn't be as easy as if we don't marry her.

 

[Thomasfoolery]

Alright based on the new info and the fact that most of the thread does not seem receptive to going on crusade and does seem to want them some slaves... peasants! I of course meant peasants. I would propose

[X]Push the possibility of Ezti to your aunt, tell the dwarves you're good for some of the wacky/skilled ones but aren't interested in crusading yourself at the moment.

Edit: Basically this would be the start of heavy focus and investment in expanding our reach in the hinterlands, we won't be able to really go anywhere for a long time, but we may be able to become a pretty decent local power bloc.

 

[Graig]

So your first problem will be the fact that you have no way to communicate with them. Also, the Pharaoh is going to ship them off with basically nothing but the clothes on their back and whatever small possessions they can carry with them. So they'll need to be fed, housed, and provided with all the tools and implements needed to begin farming. Considering how distant their homeland is, they're probably also used to farming different plants in a very different climate, and may well need a lot of instruction about local conditions to become productive in Borjeria. Clearing new land so they can farm it will also consume large amounts of labor, and of course constructing new peasant villages is expensive.

Overall, you're looking at at least 10 SP per person and a lot of personal projects solving general problems in order to get them to a minimum level of productivity. If you want to provide them with livestock and something better than ramshackle huts to live in it's probably going to cost two or three times that much.

Click to shrink...

Could this cost be reduced by using the abadoned villages in our fief? If so rougly how many people could take advantage of such a cost reduction?

 

[Walkir]

How much more expensive would a crafter for export goods be? Can't have a useful smith without a smithy, after all.

It would be nice to at least covering the roads (maintaining places could mean a good engineer or two) and this:

Recruit Craftsmen - A proper keep should have a significant collection of craftsmen (baker, cobbler, blacksmith, weaponsmiths and armorers, carpenters and masons, etc). You can do without for now because you have so few retainers, but if you want to recruit a real military force you'll need a proper support staff as well.

Click to shrink...

while getting a odd ones and maybe a few farmers at 10SP level only - the more expensive levels can be bought later.

How long until we would get those refugees?
Could we write to dad, explain the giant boon this would be but can't currently afford and ask for a loan?

Edit2: If this is late enough, we can hopefully house a few in the repaired keep.

 

[Adyen]

Ok, so most of the points I made about the refuges were relevant, tho not the ones about Ezti. Though that part is actually a good thing since the refuges would likely be open to changing religions since their last one probably involved their vampiric overlords.

I still get the feeling that it's going to push the Chosen away, but maybe we can lower the impact of that as well.

What I propose is that we get engaged with Ezti, but not married yet. Why? There's a few reasons: 1) this allows us to see how Ezti feels about all the people that we're with right now, as well as the refuge situation. 2) this still keeps our options still somewhat open, though it gives us semi-formal ties with Ezti. 3) This lets us gauge the response of Baron Rogatica - if we outright married Ezti, he might be tempted to immediately attack, but an engagement might push this attack back (or even to a field of our choosing).

About the refuges: The main problem is going to be language. We're going to have to hire someone who can understand their language until they're proficient enough to understand our people here. Otherwise we have no way of knowing whether they're farmers or skilled workers or mages or whatnot.

For farmers, we might want to have them sort of working for ours for a year or two where our farmers teach them the local crops and farming techniques and where a % of their crops would go to the farmer family for the duration they're learning and being mentored. We might even set some sort of bonus (either a reduction to their owed labor or allow them to keep the % from the other family?) to the farmer family if they are able to teach the refuge family the local language during that mentored duration?

Keep in mind that they're probably going to arrive in or after July. This means that it's past growing season, so we're going to have to feed them for an entire season before they can be growing crops and that they're going to need to be able to read/write local languages before they're useful workers or craftsmen.

But either way, I agree that we're not going to the crusade. Maybe send that knight people have been mentioning - it's win/win either way whether he manages to survive or not (though our image might take a hit if his actions there humiliate us).

 

[ShaperV]

Could this cost be reduced by using the abadoned villages in our fief? If so rougly how many people could take advantage of such a cost reduction?

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You have one abandoned hamlet that could house maybe 60 people, so it isn't a huge savings. The village around Dark Moon Well has been abandoned so long most of the buildings have collapsed and the fields are overgrown, so it isn't useable.

How much more expensive would a crafter for export goods be? Can't have a useful smith without a smithy, after all.

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Setting up workshops would cost something like 10 - 50 SP per worker depending on the profession.

How long until we would get those refugees?

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The crusade is due to kick off in September, and it's about a 2-month trip for dwarven ships. But the Sava freezes over during winter, so the dwarves won't be delivering any refugees to your area until next spring.

Could we write to dad, explain the giant boon this would be but can't currently afford and ask for a loan?

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You could, but it would damage your standing a bit. You're supposed to be showing him what you can do on you own, after all.

What I propose is that we get engaged with Ezti, but not married yet.

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In Borjeria an engagement is a formal promise to wed, so it's not something you can easily back out of. Normally an engagement only lasts the 4-6 months it takes to arrange a proper noble marriage, and your parents would negotiate a date and location within a few weeks of the announcement at the latest.

But either way, I agree that we're not going to the crusade. Maybe send that knight people have been mentioning - it's win/win either way whether he manages to survive or not (though our image might take a hit if his actions there humiliate us).

Click to shrink...

He only owes you 90 days of service per year during peacetime, so you can't really order him to go crusade in Egypt.