General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

[LeftWaiting]

Wouldn't lvl4 zulo warform cut it?

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Specifically doesn't have wings.

 

[Wwind]

So I thought to feed Grondr near animal form (from W20 changing breeds book) to AI. So we have pretty big piggies IRL and even bigger fossils.
So in the book we have this description for Daeodon:

boar that stood almost 6 feet at the shoulder and was more than 10 feet long

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Per GPT it would be:

If it retains domestic-pig-like body depth and bulk, it could realistically hit:
2,200–2,800 lbs (Well over a ton)

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It would run at 25-30mph and hit like one too (or a rhino) and very, very maneuverable. Also, notoriously aggressive. Furthermore:

The skull would be over 100 lb (50kg)
The "shoulder shield" of cartilage could be 4 inches thick

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So, pretty much forget about small calibers or melee weapons. The tusks would be around half a meter long and able to open cattle in one go. The boar would be able to flip small cars and knock down trees. What's more interesting a boar this size is completely biologically viable.

Then they give stats. Apparently that unit of a boar (who should be better than mundane one) is only:

Str +3, Dex +1, Sta +3

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What do you think? Reasonable? too low?

 

[Maragas]

Yep, considering Bears have Strength 5.

Attributes and, really, Storytellers whole trait system is a bit... finicky. Narratively, every point advantage is multiple times better than the previous one. But mechanically, only linearly.
Which is why a weak Human is Strength 1, average 2 and peak human is 5. But Bears are also 5.

 

[shadowdice]

Yep, considering Bears have Strength 5.

Attributes and, really, Storytellers whole trait system is a bit... finicky. Narratively, every point advantage is multiple times better than the previous one. But mechanically, only linearly.
Which is why a weak Human is Strength 1, average 2 and peak human is 5. But Bears are also 5.

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I square it by just assuming WOD peak human is anime/comic book bullshit

 

[Wwind]

Yep, considering Bears have Strength 5.

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that would be black bears right? Which is already wrong, but less so then assuming human can wrestle a grizzly bear XD

Attributes and, really, Storytellers whole trait system is a bit... finicky.

Narratively, every point advantage is multiple times better than the previous one. But mechanically, only linearly.
Which is why a weak Human is Strength 1, average 2 and peak human is 5. But Bears are also 5.

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It is definitely Complete BS. Including firearms, and specifically in this case physical stats. Each dice practically shows doubling of capability in the ability.
STR. Chart

I square it by just assuming WOD peak human is anime/comic book bullshit

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A peak human stat in 5 also means pretty much an outstanding physical mutation, where you also have to take a physical drawback to compensate. Which sorta work till STR.5

Meanwhile, looking at IRL a strongest man can deadlift around 500 KG. By WoD chart that would be STR8.

• Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson (Iceland): Won World's Strongest Man (WSM), Europe's Strongest Man, and Arnold Classic; holds the 501kg (1,104lb) deadlift world record.
• Eddie Hall (UK): First man to deadlift 500kg, a monumental feat.

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Now, let us look at examples and comparisons of those guys with balck bear, chimpansee and large cattle (roughly comparable with Grondr in Daeodon).

Spoiler: Black Bear

• Often estimated at 2–5× stronger than an adult strong human.
• Can overturn rocks of 150–300 kg with one paw.
• Can bend metal bars and rip open car doors.
• Bite force: ≈ 850 PSI, vastly higher than humans.
• Deadlift Estimated > 700–1000+ kg

Spoiler: Chimpanzee

• Chimp muscle fibers produce 1.3–1.5× the force of human fibers.
• But chimps also have more fast-twitch muscle, giving explosive power.
• Chimps can perform pulling and climbing motions far stronger than a human their size.
• A chimp isn't "stronger overall" than the strongest humans, but pound-for-pound, a chimp is extremely powerful, especially in pulling, tearing, and gripping, and would easily overpower a human of much larger size.

Spoiler: 1T Cattle

• Bulls can exert pushing/pulling forces > 1,800–3,000+ kg (measured in harness tests).
• Can flip cars, break fencing, and drag several humans at once.
• Neck and shoulder muscles are massively stronger than human or primate musculature.

Task	Strongman	1-Ton Bull
Max pulling force	~500 kg	2–3+ tons
Pushing force	Hundreds of kg	Multiple tons
Overall strength	Very high for humans	Strongman × 5–10 (or more)

Going by IRL data, Human max would be STR 8, same for a chimp (but dealing lethal damage with bare hands), black bears would have STR 10-11 and a bull wold be 14-15. A bear or a chimp would be a lethal threat for a "monster" like a vampire or couch potato of a garou. like... WTF?

If we assume an average human has STR2, a strongman deadlifting 500kg has STR5 and each next level is 50% increase in ability. In that case the estiamtes would be:
Black bear - Strength 7
Chimp - Strength 4
Bull - Strength 9

 

[LeftWaiting]

A peak human stat in 5 also means pretty much an outstanding physical mutation, where you also have to take a physical drawback to compensate. Which sorta work till STR.5

Meanwhile, looking at IRL a strongest man can deadlift around 500 KG. By WoD chart that would be STR8.

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Really feels like this should be including Athletics, and Specialties, and spending Willpower, and probably Merits boosting lift-strength specifically.
edit:
Also, for that matter, trade-offs like Chimps having amazing pull strength but minimal push strength.

 

[Wwind]

Really feels like this should be including Athletics, and Specialties, and spending Willpower, and probably Merits boosting lift-strength specifically.
edit:
Also, for that matter, trade-offs like Chimps having amazing pull strength but minimal push strength.

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Cut it however you like. But a bear, a human and over a ton of bovine muscle shouldn't have same strength.

 

[gale]

Cut it however you like. But a bear, a human and over a ton of bovine muscle shouldn't have same strength.

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and? Systems abstract this shit, deal with it.

 

[Wwind]

and? Systems abstract this shit, deal with it.

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I think you meant "shittily abstract"