GIANT ROBOT Quest

[ReinZero]

Um, do you know the system? 'cause the QM didn't say any O'that.

I mean, if ya do then I'll listen, but I can't see how a robot pilot must be fast for their mech to move fast, Ya'know?.

Click to shrink...

That's why it's 'dexterity' and not 'agility'. In other words, how able one is in handling delicate movements, etc. etc. Which matters more for Real types where a near miss can make all the difference from being hit. And landing hits as well.

And also in relation to being able to react properly to make use of fast mecha.

As the GM said, it's self explanatory.

Strength is also common for Super types if you look at media examples. This is a point also when surviving shit happening to you. In other words, like durability.

Intelligence is self explainatory.

Will only includes social. Which, given the personalities of Super types, makes sense. Or they'd be loners.

Edit: Also, SRW logic. Which this is apparently based off of or directly of. Lucky and Psychodriver are two very obvious indicators. Newtype reference doesn't help matters.

 

[Adyen]

Name: Kirato Yama
Boy

STR: 1
DEX: 2
INT: 2
WIL: 3

[X ] BIOLOGICAL SUPERIORITY

 

[shaderic]

Alright so to reduce confusion, I'm folding the gender:YES people with the ones who're voting girl(but boy!).

That locks in:

[X] Girl (No I'm not! I'm a guy dammit... these things on my chest are just biological defects...)

To that end, I'd just like to clarify, is the Hero...

[ ] Genderbent (Freaking Mad Scientists...)
[ ] Genderconfused (They think of themself as a boy in all respects, but are still comfortable inside their own body)
[ ] Pre-Trans (This one is honestly the most complex, and I'm leery of the concept for multiple reasons, mostly pertaining to that it /really/ doesn't fit the genre)

Moving past all this to the last thing, I'm going to lock in two other things.

[X] Gai Daigoji (Yuki Saotome)
[X] ACE OF ACES

Anyway, to give you guys a chance to sort through this, stats are still open to be voted for. If you want to recast your vote, make sure to put strikes through your old one, OK? Also, because you're all ACES, you get three extra stat points to spend, but you can't go above 5 in any one stat, alright? So, you now have 11 stat points, but you can't go over 5 in any stat. OK?

Last thing to vote on, now. The Linked Stats. These are permanent, and will be the same no matter what robot you climb into. For further explanation, see my earlier post for how Linked Stats work.

Link Weapons to? (Determines Attack)
[ ] ??

Link Armor to? (Determines Defense)
[ ] ??

Link Technology to? (Determines Engineering)
[ ] ??

Link Speed to? (Determines Movement)
[ ] ??

 

[Valette-Serafina]

[X] Genderconfused (They think of themself as a boy in all respects, but are still comfortable inside their own body)
Yay! Also, Yay.

More points, you say?

Link Weapons to Intelligence (Determines Attack)
[X] INT 4

Link Armor to Dexterity (Determines Defense)
[X] DEX 3

Link Technology to WILL (Determines Engineering)
[X] WILL 3

Link Speed to Strength (Determines Movement)
[X] STR 1

Let's be a sniper.

 

[BFldyq]

[X] Genderconfused (They think of themself as a boy in all respects, but are still comfortable inside their own body)

Link Weapons to Intelligence (Determines Attack)
[X] INT 4

Link Armor to Dexterity (Determines Defense)
[X] DEX 3

Link Technology to WILL (Determines Engineering)
[X] WILL 3

Link Speed to Strength (Determines Movement)
[X] STR 1

 

[Xicree]

[X] Genderconfused (They think of themself as a boy in all respects, but are still comfortable inside their own body)

Link Weapons to Intelligence (Determines Attack)
[X] INT 4

Link Armor to Dexterity (Determines Defense)
[X] DEX 3

Link Technology to WILL (Determines Engineering)
[X] WILL 3

Link Speed to Strength (Determines Movement)
[X] STR 1

 

[The Nobody]

My vote is the same as those three above.

 

[inverted_helix]

Could I get the logic behind putting movement as the lowest stat if the plan is to be a sniper? Wouldn't you want movement to be high so you could kite, and then lower defense because your goal is to never let them in range anyways?

 

[Valette-Serafina]

Could I get the logic behind putting movement as the lowest stat if the plan is to be a sniper? Wouldn't you want movement to be high so you could kite, and then lower defense because your goal is to never let them in range anyways?

Click to shrink...

Um. Maybe I'm describing it wrong.

We take our spot, Aim, then shoot everything before it reaches us. Enemy ranged does not touch us if'n we can help it. Those ain't standard sniper tactics, but we are a giant robot pilot.

A ranged combatant might be a better way of putting it. None of that chargin' inta' melee fer us, yo.

 

[EternitynChaos]

Rai rather then Kyosuke you mean

[X] Genderbent (Freaking Mad Scientists...)

Link Weapons to Intelligence (Determines Attack)
[X] INT 4

Link Armor to Dexterity (Determines Defense)
[X] DEX 3

Link Technology to WILL (Determines Engineering)
[X] WILL 3

Link Speed to Strength (Determines Movement)
[X] STR 1

 

[Darkened]

Um. Maybe I'm describing it wrong.

We take our spot, Aim, then shoot everything before it reaches us. Enemy ranged does not touch us if'n we can help it. Those ain't standard sniper tactics, but we are a giant robot pilot.

A ranged combatant might be a better way of putting it. None of that chargin' inta' melee fer us, yo.

Click to shrink...

You're explaining it right. What you're not explaining is why a build that focuses on not getting shot in the first place should prioritize armor (which helps when you get shot) over agility (which helps you kite those who DO try to charge into melee or sneak attack you from close range).

How does our strategy do better as a stationary canon with high defense than as a very mobile canon that's faster than anyone trying to close in.

Because you want to build around using range to avoid getting hit in the first place, you won't actually use armor unless your strategy is failing. By contrast agility will help make that strategy succeed.

The best way to stay out of enemy range is by not being stationary. If an enemy closes 2 incriments of distance, we back away 3 and keep firing. If an enemy sneaks up on us and tries to hit us, we run away and build range because we are faster than they are. By contrast staying still and getting shot is not going to ensure viability as a sniper over long conflicts.

The only real use I can see is against other people using the same strategy with the same range because equal attack and better defense means we'd kill them before they killed us. But we're far better served retreating against someone who did what we did but didn't go speed because they won't actually be able to hurt us that way (and the conflict would have them retreat if we did the same.)

Staying at range and sniping everything is cool. Explain how this works better by staying in place than by being able to actually kite enemies that try to move in, and explain what benefit armor offers other than making us look like a fortified canon and I'll support the plan.


[X] Genderconfused (They think of themself as a boy in all respects, but are still comfortable inside their own body)

Link Weapons to Intelligence (Determines Attack)
[X] INT 4

Link Armor to Strength (Determines Defense)
[X] STR 1

Link Technology to WILL (Determines Engineering)
[X] WILL 3

Link Speed to Dexterity(Determines Movement)
[X] DEX 4

 

[Adyen]

[X] Genderconfused (They think of themself as a boy in all respects, but are still comfortable inside their own body)

Link Weapons to Intelligence (Determines Attack)
[X] INT 4

Link Armor to Strength (Determines Defense)
[X] STR 1

Link Technology to WILL (Determines Engineering)
[X] WILL 3

Link Speed to Dexterity(Determines Movement)
[X] DEX 4

Click to shrink...

I'll tentatively agree to this, but I want to know exactly what Engineering covers. I'm assuming repairs and upgrades, but I'm also assuming that we actually have a team to help do that, so...

 

[MHLord]

[X] Genderconfused (They think of themself as a boy in all respects, but are still comfortable inside their own body)

Link Weapons to Intelligence (Determines Attack)
[X] INT 4

Link Armor to Dexterity (Determines Defense)
[X] DEX 3

Link Technology to WILL (Determines Engineering)
[X] WILL 3

Link Speed to Strength (Determines Movement)
[X] STR 1

 

[Valette-Serafina]

You're explaining it right. What you're not explaining is why a build that focuses on not getting shot in the first place should prioritize armor (which helps when you get shot) over agility (which helps you kite those who DO try to charge into melee or sneak attack you from close range).

How does our strategy do better as a stationary canon with high defense than as a very mobile canon that's faster than anyone trying to close in.

Because you want to build around using range to avoid getting hit in the first place, you won't actually use armor unless your strategy is failing. By contrast agility will help make that strategy succeed.

The best way to stay out of enemy range is by not being stationary. If an enemy closes 2 incriments of distance, we back away 3 and keep firing. If an enemy sneaks up on us and tries to hit us, we run away and build range because we are faster than they are. By contrast staying still and getting shot is not going to ensure viability as a sniper over long conflicts.

The only real use I can see is against other people using the same strategy with the same range because equal attack and better defense means we'd kill them before they killed us. But we're far better served retreating against someone who did what we did but didn't go speed because they won't actually be able to hurt us that way (and the conflict would have them retreat if we did the same.)

Staying at range and sniping everything is cool. Explain how this works better by staying in place than by being able to actually kite enemies that try to move in, and explain what benefit armor offers other than making us look like a fortified canon and I'll support the plan.

Click to shrink...

Okay. I'm only going by what the QM, shaderic, has posted. Other than that info, I have no knowledge of the system. If you do, I'd appreciate advice and information, so please say so.

From what has been posted, Dex linked with Armour = dodge defence.

Dex and Armor? Your defense is not being hit in the first place. Simple enough, right?

Click to shrink...

I think it works at all ranges. Is this wrong?
Speed + whatever = Movement, which is not used to dodge if one is within range, but helps one change ranges. Is this wrong?
The enemy may have guns. This is not wrong.

I'd rather be slower and able to dodge than faster and not.

 

[Darkened]

From what has been posted, Dex linked with Armour = dodge defence.I think it works at all ranges. Is this wrong?
Speed + whatever = Movement, which is not used to dodge if one is within range, but helps one change ranges. Is this wrong?
The enemy may have guns. This is not wrong.

I'd rather be slower and able to dodge than faster and not.

Click to shrink...

Then why go for the ultra long range build? If we need to dodge, our strategy has already failed. It is far more likely to fail if we can't maintain distance.

If we are best at max range, making use of this requires the ability to stay at max range. Since we'll be outside enemy ranges, that means we'll not be getting shot in the first place.

Hence the idea of kiting.

Given that you've placed a priority on staying at max range, why would you place defense (when the strategy you described revolves around being unattackable in the first place) over your ability to actually do the thing you plan to do? (Stay at range and snipe).

If you want to be a ranged fighter (and it's often a top tier strategy though I know little about this system specifically) the obvious approach is to take the ability that lets you keep range. If we don't get shot, we don't need to dodge. If we need to dodge, we've already failed to enact the very strategy you described wanting to use.

To put it simply, you want to be a sniper. That requires getting in a good position, moving to new good positions and maintaining distance as much as it requires actually shooting. Defense is the stat we use to get up close and fight toe to toe with people and not die. (By virtue of not taking damage despite getting attacked.)

Prioritizing defense is fine. Building a sniper is fine. Building a sniper that prioritizes defense over their ability to continue sniping is really counter-intuitive. Please explain how your stat allotment actually helps achieve the desired build. (Sniper)

It's fairly simple to see why prioritizing speed is a good idea usually regardless of system. We want to snipe, we max our range. If we outrange enemies then we can shoot farther than they can (assuming sniper is valid in the first place). Now, if we can shoot farther we can hit them without risking attack UNLESS they can close in and hit us.

So we move faster too.

Against a sniper who prioritized defense, we retreat, hide, ambush and retreat again before they can counter because they're stationary. If we can't ambush we retreat because they can't catch us (because they prioritized defense) advantage us.

Against melee.... we just kite them and destroy.

Against mid-range, same as melee.

Against stealth attack type, well, presumably a sniper is bad in melee so the defense build is at a disadvantage and can't gain ground, whereas the speed build can gain ground and begin using our strategy (sniping) again. IE: Our survivability needs only be high enough to survive long enough to create distance in the case of ambushes.

This limits us in situations which aren't advantageous to sniping (Closed off areas, areas with many obstacles, etc) but those would be bad for any sniper and mobility will often let us deal with many such problems whereas defense wouldn't.

The bottom line is that I don't understand why you want to prioritize being the best ever at taking hits when the strategy you suggest is to never get attacked in the first place.

 

[EternitynChaos]

Kiting is fine if you are fighting one on one... we will NEVER be fighting one on one

 

[The Nobody]

How Dexterity determines Defence: Dodge-class Armor bonus.

 

[Valette-Serafina]

Then why go for the ultra long range build? If we need to dodge, our strategy has already failed. It is far more likely to fail if we can't maintain distance.

Click to shrink...

Um. No.

See, I think that at some point in this quest, we'll be within range of another robot that does mean us harm. At that time, all the running in the world will not help if we cannot take one hit.

We will not be fighting on a perfect battlefield. We will not get perfect knowledge of what we are fighting. We may fight enemies who are as fast as us. We may, Heaven help us, need to defend a point. We may, once more, fight enemies with guns.

Kiting will not help dodge a bullet. A glass cannon is not a good build unless there's a tank.
If one is sacrificing any stat, it should not, and I say again, not be the one called defence.

Also, we haven't even seen our mech yet. That's half of our stats, y'know.

 

[Adyen]

If one is sacrificing any stat, it should not, and I say again, not be the one called defence.

Also, we haven't even seen our mech yet. That's half of our stats, y'know.

Click to shrink...

That's one of the reasons why I want to know what exactly does Engineering/Technology do. Because depending on the answer, we can make that as our lowest stat. (And honestly, any 1s are pretty bad anyways, but until I know more...)

 

[shaderic]

I feel the need to point something out.

Well, three things really.

First off, Movement and Engineering. Movement is how far you can move in a single turn, and Engineering affects your initiative rolls. In other words, the turn order.

Secondly, MECHA is soft as all get out. Linking Int to Weapons doesn't make you a sniper, it means you tend to be a technician. When you fire, you use your head.

Third thing, Mecha uses something called a Bulls-eye map to constrain the action to a small, easily conceptualized distance. In the interest of that being kind of boring in my opinion, I'm dropping it. Possibly in favor of something with hexes. Either way, while movement is important, there are limits to your engagement rages, so having it be low doesn't hurt too much. Especially given that if any given enemy is close enough to attack you, you're usually close enough to attack him.

Also, it's the FUTURE. Giant Robots might be the weapon of choice, but they do tend to fight with guns. I'd much rather you be a bit slow, which is adjustable for, rather than die fast because you have a very shitty defense.

 

[Darkened]

The goal people seem to have is building a sniper. At least looking at the "let's build a sniper" comment.

And will you be changing weapon range mechanics if you change the rules to something hex based? Would this shift be to a map of approximately the same size or a larger map?

In the former case, managing range is really really difficult because the map is a circle and you can't really keep running away from people.

If you're changing to something bigger though: the effect of shooting someone either too close or too far seems to be losing 1 die. Each point of defense adds one die to your roll. These effects aren't all that different. IE: The only way to consistently get your full attack pool is to have the speed to keep your enemy at an ideal range or to carry weapons that cover the ranges of most enemies (3 seems to be the most common maybe).

The advantage of movement, if played well and not constrained by other factors is thus roughly equivalent to the advantage of higher defense except it also helps you attack.


By contrast, initiative seems to let you roll once and get added to a list. Those who roll very well on initiative can do a few things at once and maybe speed blitz the enemy. After round one it seems to do nothing. Not quite sure how long a fight takes, and granted this is the quickstart and it doesn't go into too much detail on the full rules.

I think the best bet, assuming 4, 3, 3, 1, with a general intent on maxing long range damage and hitting people outside their effective range, would be something vaguely along the lines of:



[X] Genderconfused

Link Weapons to Intelligence (Determines Attack)
[X] INT 4

Link Armor to Dexterity (Determines Defense)
[X] DEX 3

Link Technology to Strength (Determines Engineering)
[X] STR 1

Link Speed to Will(Determines Movement)
[X] Will 3



Ideal set-up would require a range 5 weapon or the like, which may or may not exist. Oddly it might work just as well in terms of negating enemy attacks to go range zero and blitz into melee where range weapon would take as much of a penalty.

Since most mechs seem to have two weapons in teh quickstart we could even go with the highest and lowest range weapons we can find, hitting mid-rangers at either, long range types up close and close range types from far away.

 

[shaderic]

And will you be changing weapon range mechanics if you change the rules to something hex based? Would this shift be to a map of approximately the same size or a larger map?

Click to shrink...

I'll start off with a smaller map, then expand and experiment as things go. As of right now, I'm going to square weapon ranges, though. A range 1 weapon is a melee weapon going 1 hex, range 2 gets hexes 2-4 out, range 3 gets 6-9, and 4 gets 10-16. This should let us expand beyond my biggest issues with MECHA. The Bulls-eye map is a good idea for keeping things simple, but it just bugs me.

If you're changing to something bigger though: the effect of shooting someone either too close or too far seems to be losing 1 die. Each point of defense adds one die to your roll. These effects aren't all that different. IE: The only way to consistently get your full attack pool is to have the speed to keep your enemy at an ideal range or to carry weapons that cover the ranges of most enemies (3 seems to be the most common maybe).

The advantage of movement, if played well and not constrained by other factors is thus roughly equivalent to the advantage of higher defense except it also helps you attack.

Click to shrink...

Interesting. But with attack range being expanded, and the fact that you're generally going to be carrying two weapons, you can adjust for multiple engagement ranges. Add to that, there's always the possibility of customizing your unit or getting upgrades to increase your unit's stats. In addition to getting experience and leveling up, presuming we play long enough for that.

By contrast, initiative seems to let you roll once and get added to a list. Those who roll very well on initiative can do a few things at once and maybe speed blitz the enemy. After round one it seems to do nothing. Not quite sure how long a fight takes, and granted this is the quickstart and it doesn't go into too much detail on the full rules.

Click to shrink...

Depends on rolls, to be honest. Theoretically, you could keep fighting for awhile, depending on your Stability rolls. If you're unlucky, then you get Severe Damage. You can choose to withdraw at that point, or keep fighting. If you keep fighting, then you lose a Configuration (think special skills) but not too much other than that. If you fail a stability roll in Sever damage, then you have two options. First, you can choose to back out. There'll probably be some sort of consequence for getting damaged that badly, but you'll still be alive. Or, you can choose to take Lethal Damage, which means another lost Configuration, and if you fail a Stability roll again, WILL KILL YOU.

DEAD.

PERMANENTLY.

Keep in mind, this is the equivalent of failing three fortitude checks in a row, with your GM constantly asking if you're sure you want to continue each time. So, for now, don't worry about it.

I think the best bet, assuming 4, 3, 3, 1, with a general intent on maxing long range damage and hitting people outside their effective range, would be something vaguely along the lines of:



[X] Genderconfused

Link Weapons to Intelligence (Determines Attack)
[X] INT 4

Link Armor to Dexterity (Determines Defense)
[X] DEX 3

Link Technology to Strength (Determines Engineering)
[X] STR 1

Link Speed to Will(Determines Movement)
[X] Will 3

Click to shrink...

Fair enough.

 

[Darik29]

Just to check, GenderConfused means our girl is a girl in truth, she's just messed in the head and thinks she's a dude?

While having no conflicts of bodily interest, and being perfectly fine in a girls body?

 

[Valette-Serafina]

Just to check, GenderConfused means our girl is a girl in truth, she's just messed in the head and thinks she's a dude?

While having no conflicts of bodily interest, and being perfectly fine in a girls body?

Click to shrink...

Uh. He's a boy, who has a girl's body. He's fine with that. Sometimes I know what that feels like.
Or maybe not? The QM might have meant something else.

 

[Winged One]

I find that I prefer "transboy with no body dysphoria" to "messed up girl," mostly because I want to be nice to actual trans people.

 

[Darik29]

Going by the three previous options, we have Gender Bent, which makes our girl a boy hit with MAD SCIENCE.

Gender Confused, which means we've got a girl who thinks she's a boy, but has no problems with actually Being a girl, and is thus a massive hypocrite.

And then we have Trans, which is something GM has said he Does Not want to deal with, but put the option up anyway.


So yeah, going by GM standards and odd votes, we're a massive hypocrite, since as a Gender Confused, our girl Claims she's a boy, and then has zero issues with actually being a girl.

 

[Valette-Serafina]

Going by the three previous options, we have Gender Bent, which makes our girl a boy hit with MAD SCIENCE.

Gender Confused, which means we've got a girl who thinks she's a boy, but has no problems with actually Being a girl, and is thus a massive hypocrite.

And then we have Trans, which is something GM has said he Does Not want to deal with, but put the option up anyway.


So yeah, going by GM standards and odd votes, we're a massive hypocrite, since as a Gender Confused, our girl Claims she's a boy, and then has zero issues with actually being a girl.

Click to shrink...

Um. Okay. I'm not going to get angry. I'm not. That was not cool, though.

No.
A person can feel that their body is the wrong sex, and cope. That's possible.
Being able to handle it is possible. I know this, personally.

 

[shaderic]

Going by the three previous options, we have Gender Bent, which makes our girl a boy hit with MAD SCIENCE.

Gender Confused, which means we've got a girl who thinks she's a boy, but has no problems with actually Being a girl, and is thus a massive hypocrite.

And then we have Trans, which is something GM has said he Does Not want to deal with, but put the option up anyway.


So yeah, going by GM standards and odd votes, we're a massive hypocrite, since as a Gender Confused, our girl Claims she's a boy, and then has zero issues with actually being a girl.

Click to shrink...

Dude. Gender identity is complicated. Which is why I am really glad no one voted trans. No offense to the people who want to see more of it, and if people had voted for it I'd have done it. But as a straight guy who's fairly comfortable with himself and his body, doing that sort of thing would have been really awkward for me in multiple ways.

Not least because I'd want to do it right and I'm not sure if I could. Those kinds of issues could also have played merry hell with the Giant Robot theme we have going on too.

To that end, I'm still not a hundred percent I'm going to be doing Gender Confused perfectly well either. To be perfectly honest, most of the time it's probably just going to come off as a tomboyish lesbian and just choosing personal interests that tend to be more male dominated. S/he's aware that their body is feminine, although their personal thoughts and interests tend to be more masculine. And they're okay with this. Or just dealing with it. Or maybe barely tolerating it because it feels like they aren't being taken seriously about this.

Or I might play the whole thing for comedy, because this is a complicated issue that I'm worried about but I made this game for GIANT ROBOTS, not deep considerations of gender identity and sexuality, although these things may come up in passing.

Um. Okay. I'm not going to get angry. I'm not. That was not cool, though.

No.
A person can feel that their body is the wrong sex, and cope. That's possible.
Being able to handle it is possible. I know this, personally.

Click to shrink...

Considering what I've just said, I feel like I need to see if any of the above bothers you. Like I said, this is a complex and nuanced issue, and I really don't want to offend anyone here.

I may (read: probably will) play with this a little bit for the sake of comedy. I can't promise I will always be a hundred percent respectful of this issue, because I will probably screw things up at some point. But I'm going to try and do a decent job.

 

[Valette-Serafina]

Considering what I've just said, I feel like I need to see if any of the above bothers you. Like I said, this is a complex and nuanced issue, and I really don't want to offend anyone here.

I may (read: probably will) play with this a little bit for the sake of comedy. I can't promise I will always be a hundred percent respectful of this issue, because I will probably screw things up at some point. But I'm going to try and do a decent job.

Click to shrink...

'S cool. Everything's a little funny in some ways. People make jokes about men, about women, about lawyers and farmers, about blondes and catholic priests. Playing it for humour is fine with me.
Also, I'm in this quest for Giant Robots too. So don't worry about it, yo.
(Personally, I think you're pretty awesome for being willing to write a trans protagonist at all. Thanks.)
Edit for humour;

Let's try this Trailer style.

"Some guys are short. Some guys have high voices. They are still men!"
*Image of the protagonist*
"This guy, Gai Digoji, has boobs and a vagina on top of both of the above, but he is still a man!"
*Slide-show of comedic events*
"His trials; Convincing the rank and file to stop calling him ma'am! Acquiring permission to use the men's bathroom! And finding a girlfriend who'll introduce him as her boyfriend!"
*Mecha action sequence*
"Oh, and piloting a giant robot."

*Opening titles*

 

[Xicree]

I proposed it in the first place in a comedic light. Mostly because the typical tropes of 'giant robot' fiction are dominated by the 'hot blooded' hyper-masculine imagery... and I felt it could be fun to shake that up by playing that hyper-masculinity against the fact that the protagonist is infact female. Would have worked even better with 'Lucky Bastard' since the luck of the draw makes for great sudden comedic success and failure conditions.

That is not to say that it can't be played serious either. After all I named her after one of my favourite protagonists of that vein, who was very much a comedic figure, very much an action hero, and has a very serious fate within his show.