I get to conquer the Federation (SW SI X ST)

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Thanks for Chapter, that bit at the end took place on the enterprise bridge but where was its captain I'm surprised they would surrender rather then slip away and become part of some rebel force.

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They can't run. The Enterprise-E was nearly blown in two between the saucer and the engine section, if they try to go to warp, they'll get torn apart. Not that they can, what with the ship's primary EPS relays burnt out.

The sheer scale of the prisons hidden away by section 31 will do more harm to the federation then anything else would. Having your whole civilization revealed as nothing less then a bunch of hypocrites when for decades they acted like there farts don't stinks… well I expect a lot of different races are going to be nodding there head and saying I knew the federation didn't add up.

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Yup.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

"Natasi Daala, it is my honor that on behalf of His Excellency the Emperor, that I promote you to the rank of Vice Admiral, and present to you the Knight's Cross of the Star Cross with Aurodium Leaves. You are hereby relieved of frontline service, and directed to report with your command to Sluis Van, where you will assume command of a new flagship, and organize your own fleet before returning to the front."

"Thank you, ma'am." Daala saluted to the sound of polite applause. "It is an honor to serve."

I saluted back, and then smiling held out my hand. Daala took it, smiling back while shaking my hand. "Congratulations, Natasi." I said. "Now, let's keep showing the men how it's really done."

Daala's lips curled wider as sounds of amusement echoed through the halls of the Elysee Palace. "I'll hold you to that, Lady Summerhall." She said.

I nodded at that before our hands released. "If there is nothing else," I began. "Then you are dismissed, though I believe you have a fleet to organize."

Daala saluted again, and at a nod from myself, turned and marched out, proudly wearing a new rank plaque and her new Knight's Cross. The short ceremony over, I walked away in a different direction, Sara trailing after me as we walked down the corridors of the Elysees Palace. Once, this place had housed the offices of United Earth and their staff, while also serving as their and their family's residence.

No longer; now it was the headquarters of the Inspector-General of the Terran Occupation Command, from which all the various occupational authorities were overseen from. "Hmm…assuming I'm also put in charge of the New Territories after the war," I mused in the silence of my thoughts. "…I'll also be based from here. But I'd rather not permanently…Paris is just too…rustic. I'd prefer somewhere more…developed, somewhere more like Coruscant…damn the Federation and United Earth both. Just about every city on this planet is like a damn toy town thanks to them…then again, it's always been given we'd have to build this planet up so…New York, maybe? Berlin? Moscow? Beijing? Delhi…or perhaps…somewhere…a city deliberately founded as the capital of a new world for a new order…hmm…ideas…"

I blinked and paused as an NCO trotted up, handed Sara a dataslate, and then withdrew with a salute. "What is it?" I asked, as the lieutenant quickly read through the report.

"It's a status report with regard to the planetary population, ma'am." Sara replied.

"And…?" I prompted.

"Plan Z is working as planned, ma'am." Sara said. "While there is still fear and resentment, especially after the Battle of Earth, it's worked to our advantage, between our troops' discipline meaning there have been few cases of rape or looting on our part, with those few cases quickly dealt with according to the strictest discipline, and our maintaining order in the aftermath of Starfleet's collapse."

"Hmm…speaking of maintaining order," I mused. "I recall the last order mentioned the various occupational authorities have also executed a number of miscreants, correct?"

"As per Imperial Occupational Directives, ma'am," Sara said. "Rapists, looters, murderers, and the like, shall be publicly executed after a summary court martial."

I sniffed. "And I've actually softened that bit." I said. "In any case, it's certainly helped that Starfleet decided to go scorched earth after the Battle of Mars. While it's meant we've had to provide more food and medical aid – among others – than originally expected, our overwhelming material superiority means it's an inconvenience at worst. We might have started this war, bombed the planet, and killed plenty of Starfleet drones, but Starfleet was supposed to be protecting these people. And we were supposed to be monsters out to enslave them all…instead, Starfleet left them to starve, while we clearly prepared to take responsibility for all the damages of war even before Starfleet abandoned their own people to die."

"In short," Sara opined. "That is, if I may be so frank…"

I gestured invitingly, and Sara gave a grateful nod. "Better the honorable conquerors than the cowardly defenders." She said. "That, and people tend to appreciate those who feed them more than they do those who'd starve them."

"It's just Human…no, sentient nature." I said with a nod. "The Federation might pretend to have…evolved past such a thing, but it's clearly a delusion. And nothing proves that more than the mob's response to our public executions of convicted criminals."

"As I recall," Sara mused. "They responded with enthusiastic cheers."

"Yes." I said with a nod. "They were presented with an immediate…other. Others that were clearly more…evil, or however you describe them, than they were. And we brought them to swift and final justice, essentially making us good…"

I paused and shrugged. "…good and evil are words too big in hindsight." I admitted. "The convicts were villains, and us the heroes who brought them down."

"As you say, ma'am." Sara said with a nod.

"Mind you," I said. "There will be those who hate us. Those who lost friends and family in the war, whether civilians killed in Operation Yellow or its aftermath, or…soldiers, from Starfleet. Not to mention the members of the Federation's – and United Earth's – leadership caste, whether open or otherwise. They will all bear watching."

"The ISB is already on the move with regard to Section 31 and the rest of the Federation's shadow leaders. They also have plans for the other concerns you've mentioned, admiral."

"Hmm…true…but we mustn't get careless, regardless. Especially if those involved have nothing left to lose."

"As you say, ma'am."
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"Citizens of the Empire!"

Picard entered the conference room to find the rest of the senior staff looking at the display, which had Admiral Targaryen speaking from behind the podium in what Picard recognized as the public address room in the Elysees Palace on Earth. Both of the seals of United Earth had been removed, from the podium and the back wall alike, while the flags of the Federation and United Earth had been replaced with those of the Galactic Empire.

"It's a live broadcast." Riker said at once. "They're broadcasting it on all channels, both in normal space and in subspace."

"What is she broadcasting about?" Picard asked.

"We'll find out soon enough, sir." Riker said, and Picard set his jaw.

"…a historic revelation, perhaps even more historic than the current conflict between the Galactic Empire and the United Federation of Planets." Targaryen was saying. "It will be difficult to hear, for it will expose everything that the Federation's citizens have ever believed in to be a lie. However, it is a necessary thing, to face this fact, for as an old Earth saying I have recently learned says, the most unpleasant truth is a safer companion than a pleasant falsehood."

Data tilted his head and frowned at that. "That was Theodore Roosevelt, I believe." He said. "The 26th​ President of the United States, and the legal predecessor of the modern United North American States."

"This is ridiculous." Riker scoffed. "She expects us there's a huge lie behind the Federation, and she quotes Teddy Roosevelt to justify herself?"

Troi frowned at that. "While I can't completely sure given the distance," she said. "From her body language and the…psychic echoes, present in the broadcast, I can sense that Targaryen is speaking the truth. More than that, she is genuinely…angry, and…disgusted, at…what she knows."

"But how can that be?" Riker asked. "The Federation's existed for over two hundred years. Surely, if there's something fishy about it, it'd have been exposed by now. Look at Cartwright's conspiracy back in the 23rd​ Century. It didn't even last a month…"

"…there's an old saying, Number One." Picard grimly interrupted. "That all you need to do is repeat a lie loudly enough times, and it might as well become the truth."

"…I've heard of that." Riker admitted after a moment's thought. "Joseph Goebbels, right?"

"That is correct, commander." Data confirmed. "The propaganda minister of 20th​ Century Germany's Third Reich, both before and during the Second World War."

"Targaryen may be exaggerating things, or drawing the wrong conclusions," Picard said. "But after the Battle of Orion, and Nechayev's…insane orders, to destroy all critical infrastructure in this system after the Battle of Mars…I think it's best we keep an open mind, the better to make sense of everything that's getting…unexpended, in all this."

Riker didn't answer, instead turning his attention back to the screen. And just in time too, to see the perspective shift from the Elysees Palace to what looked like a vast underground structure, honeycombed with scaffolding and advanced machinery. "Data," Picard began. "What are those…"

"Behold Tartarus, named after a mythological prison from Ancient Earth." Targaryen answered before Picard could even finish his question. "Buried deep beneath the planet Pluto, whose own inhabitants were left ignorant of what lay beneath their feet, if not deliberately kept ignorant, the better to use them as a smokescreen for the injustice kept on this world. For in this world, Section 31 imprisoned those they considered…inconvenient, be it politically or culturally, to their vision of the future."

Targaryen paused, and then continued, while scenes could be shown of Imperial medical personnel tending to prisoners being brought out cryogenic stasis. "Some of you would ask," she said. "Would it not have been easier and more convenient for Section 31 to simply execute these individuals? It would have been, yes, kinder too, especially for those who have languished in prison for centuries and now awaken to a galaxy bereft of all that is welcoming and familiar. But they did not. In what is perhaps the cruelest evidence of their fanatical belief in the utopian lie of the Federation, they would not kill, because it would go against any and all of their so-called ideals. Better then, to imprison these inconvenient souls for all time, and to erase their legacy from the pages of history…at least from their point of view. Just as it would have been better for all the Federation's citizens to live ignorant of the truth of their world."

Targaryen paused again, before continuing as the scene shifted back to the Elysees Palace. "No doubt," she said. "Some of you wonder if perhaps these are all doctored videos. That we have merely prepared a grand exercise in propaganda for the Empire's own interests. And I would not blame you, for such is the scale of the lie. But I will have us all face the truth, as told by those who witnessed and experienced it in person."

Then she stepped aside, allowing a grim-faced man to take the podium. Again, Data started, drawing eyes his way. "Data," Picard began. "Do you recognize that man?"

"Yes, but…he should be dead." Data replied. "According to the official record, he…"

"My name is Brian Waters." The man began. "Once, I was the Ambassador of United North American States to United Earth. Once, I was a citizen of the Federation, and believed in its ideals of cooperation, progress, and peace. But those ideals never meant we would lay down all our arms and leave our homes, our families, defenseless. And so, I opposed the effective demilitarization of not just the UNAS, or even of the Earth, but of the entire Sol System in the aftermath of the Khitomer Accords. For that, Section 31 took me away from my family, my home, and faking my death in a transporter accident, buried me away to be forgotten forever. Until now…"

"…Data?" Picard asked in a faint voice. "Counsellor…?"

"His physical appearance matches that of what's on record." Data began, while Troi shook her head, and pressed her hands over the lower half of her face.

"H-he's…he's telling the truth, captain." Troi tearfully said. "I…I don't want to believe it…but the sheer anger, loss, grief, and hatred he feels…they're so deep and primal that it's impossible to fake. And so powerful that even over the distance…"

Troi trailed off, while Riker took her hand and gave it a reassuring squeeze. "Are you sure you can handle this, Deanna?" Doctor Crusher asked worriedly. "From the look of things, he's not going to be the Empire's only witness."

Troi shakily nodded. "I…I have to be here." She said. "I…I have to watch this…if what we're seeing and hearing is the truth…then I'd rather accept it, no matter how hard and painful it might be, than bury my head under a pillow and live a lie."

Doctor Crusher looked at Picard who sighed before looking at the screen, with Ambassador Waters continuing to testify about his experiences, and denouncing both Section 31 and the Federation. And as Doctor Crusher said, he was only the first. For the next hour, they listened to testimony after testimony, about how far the shadowy conspiracy behind the Federation's very existence was willing to go.

After Ambassador Waters, there was Senator Franklin Medina, again from the UNAS. "…I spoke out against the dispossession of large farmers…entire families…generations of ordinary people who'd made a living on the land of their ancestors," he raged. "Within a decade they were all gone, forced into obscure suburban lives just so the Arcadian idyll part of the conspirator's utopian nightmare would become reality…assuming they didn't just disappear into those so-called 'resocialization camps'!"

The man paused, and pointed at Targaryen off the screen. "You've seen them, haven't you?" he demanded. "Your people broke them all open! Show them…show the galaxy the truth of it all…and may God forgive me, because I knew then and did nothing."

"…thank you, Senator Medina." Targaryen said, walking over and helping the distraught senator away. "And yes, we have not forgotten about the resocialization camps, and not the model ones the Federation uses to deceive its citizens, or even its own well-meaning social workers and counsellors who genuinely wish to help those who need it."

"…do I even want to know?" Riker asked, looking disturbed.

"We have to." Picard said, his hands shaking and forcing Doctor Crusher to walk over, protocol be damned, and take a hand in her own. "We have to…if all this is true…if the Federation truly isn't…isn't what we thought it would is…then we owe it to ourselves…to everyone the Federation has harmed…to watch all this to the end…"

And so it continued. There was Yustina Kolodavich Guseva, a member of the Federation Council no less, and one who opposed the effective abolition of free enterprise in the Federation's core systems, and its suppression in the outer colonies and worlds. And it wasn't just politicians either who'd been imprisoned. Scientists, as well, such as Derek Whitehead who had uncovered evidence that transporters, regardless of the Federation's claims, actually did destroy people and merely replicated them at the target destination.

There was an Indian geneticist, Manas Adwani, who'd actually managed to correct the flaws in the Augmentation process, allowing for the birth of psychologically-stable Augments. Intellectuals too had been targeted, from philosophers who questioned and criticized the subtly-monolithic nature of Federation society and culture, to historians who'd uncovered socio-politically-unacceptable details of the past, in particular of pre-WWIII 21st​ Century history. Artists and musicians had also been imprisoned, as their innovative thoughts on cultural expression were deemed dangerous by Section 31's social engineers.

Nor was it limited to Humans. In fact, it was a Vulcan who was the oldest prisoner, along with members of his sect, all of whom had been tracked down, abducted and made to appear dead, before being imprisoned on Pluto.

All because T'Kas believed that Vulcans could learn to master both emotion and logic before living with them in balance. And he had succeeded, having lived on Earth for virtually the entirety of the 22nd​ Century, allowing him to gather a following of young Vulcan intellectuals and scientists whom he taught to live as he did.

"Of course, this was unacceptable to Section 31." T'Kas sneered. "Apparently, our people's suppression of their emotions was deemed a vital and…necessary, psychological check and balance to ensure we wouldn't be a threat to the sociopolitical balance of the newborn Federation."

No less than five Dahar masters were also released from the prison, all abducted and imprisoned for their opposition to the Klingon-Federation Alliance. "…this is not going to end well." Worf growled with a shake of his head as Amash Nalkah angrily raged at the podium, even needing to be restrained by Admiral Targaryen after he finished his tirade by holding the podium so hard the wood shattered. "…brave of her."

Then horror filled the command staff, as the most recent additions to the prison roster were revealed, three Romulan Senators including a consular candidate, all supposedly killed when a pocket of toxic gas in a nearby swamp was released and poisoned everyone in the country home of one of the senators. "I don't know if Ambassador Spock knew or was involved." Senator Nirus hissed. "All I know is that we led the united front in the Senate against his movement for reunification between Vulcan and Romulus. And that was enough for those hypocrites to make us disappear, regardless of the loss our families would have to endure. Because say what you want about the Tal Shiar, but at least they have the decency to not pretend to be anything other than what they are!"

Nirus looked away, chest heaving, and then wiping her eyes, staggered away from the podium. Then she paused, and looking at the screen, visibly softened her expression before speaking in Romulan. "Kunsara my son…mother will be home soon…" she said, before letting a fellow senator lead her away.

The horror story didn't end with just prisoners from Tartarus, but also inmates from the resocialization camps. Images were also shown that looked straight like something from the 20th​ Century, whether the Third Reich's concentration and death camps, or the gulags of the Soviet Union. Row upon row of small, one-man residences, differentiated only by a string of letters and numbers above the door. Hollow-eyes and world-weary inmates underwent medical examinations by Imperial doctors and medical droids. Many of them were underweight, as starvation was a common method of punishing disobedience. All of them had barcodes printed onto the back of their necks, as a means of identification.

Then there were the methods used for 'resocialization', most commonly being forced to watch 'educational' videos over extended periods of time, with electrical current being applied to keep inmates awake. Drugs were also used, of various kinds and combinations, along with pain and pleasure methods.

All too many inmates succumbed to such brutal treatment, leading to various scenes of Imperial officers and men grimly looking on as droids unearthed mass graves. Apparently, surviving inmates had been forced to dig and bury the dead in such a crude way, as a way of reinforcing the consequences of failing 'reintegration' back into Federation society.

By the end of it all, Troi was openly crying, Riker visibly struggling to stay calm while holding her and rubbing circles into her back. Data was looking down at the table with a torn expression on his face, while Worf was gripping the conference table so hard the wood had cracked beneath his fingers. Geordi was holding his head in his hands, and while Picard and Doctor Crusher had managed to keep their composure, their hands were white as they tightly took comfort and reassurance in each other's physical presence.

In fact, it was almost…comforting, when Q appeared in a flash of light. And for once, he didn't look or sound taunting.

"For what it's worth, I'm sorry it had to come to this." He said. "But perhaps now you understand why we don't believe the Federation should be allowed to freely expand across the galaxy."

He paused, and tilted his head. "You have a question." He said. "Ask. For once, I will answer straight to the point."

 

[Sonic Dash]

Always nice to see the blinders removed to what communism really is and does.

As someone who recognizes Star Trek for the leftist high minded intellectual propaganda it is. It's deeply satisfying to read a story about the Federation being destroyed. Keep up the good work!

 

[iceknight90]

Now comes the interesting part.

Does what's left of the Federation lay down arms and accept their defeat?

Or, more excitingly, do they decide to create a new, better Federation and continue the struggle?

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Or, more excitingly, do they decide to create a new, better Federation and continue the struggle?

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Assuming their neighbors are willing to trust them at all, and won't just invade even if they somehow manage to eject the Coruscanti.

 

[iceknight90]

Assuming their neighbors are willing to trust them at all, and won't just invade even if they somehow manage to eject the Coruscanti.

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Oh I wasn't expecting them to eject the Empire.

More along the lines of them creating some tiny little rump state in the boondocks of galactic space perhaps.

 

[AlphaOmega]

and the legal predecessor of the modern

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either there is something missing before 'and' or you need to remove it

if not deliberately kept ignorant,

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I think emphasising 'kept' will carry the intent better, as is I was confused for a moment with the seeming two sentences that mean the same

isn't what we thought it would is

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Remove 'would'

socio-politically-unacceptable details

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Remove the red part

 

[WhiteDragon25]

You just really love to piss all over the idealistic and optimistic intent of Star Trek, don't you? Piss all over it, while fellating the fascist image of 'strength' that the Empire projects.

To further add insult to injury, you continue this absurd exaggeration of Section 31's actual reach and capability, making it out to be an all-controlling puppet-mastering conspiracy that is responsible for every bad thing to have ever happened, when in reality such a widely-spanning conspiracy would've never lasted even a month just as you have Riker explicitly state.

Why do you insist on making the Federation out to be the worst of Stalin's USSR and Mao's PRC combined, when there has been no evidence of any sort throughout the franchise? Meanwhile, you try to paint the Empire in as rosy a picture as possible, when they are explicitly intended to be the villains of their franchise?

Jesus Christ, as an Empire fanboy myself I cannot believe I have to explain this to you.

 

[iceknight90]

You just really love to piss all over the idealistic and optimistic intent of Star Trek, don't you? Piss all over it, while fellating the fascist image of 'strength' that the Empire projects.

To further add insult to injury, you continue this absurd exaggeration of Section 31's actual reach and capability, making it out to be an all-controlling puppet-mastering conspiracy that is responsible for every bad thing to have ever happened, when in reality such a widely-spanning conspiracy would've never lasted even a month just as you have Riker explicitly state.

Why do you insist on making the Federation out to be the worst of Stalin's USSR and Mao's PRC combined, when there has been no evidence of any sort throughout the franchise? Meanwhile, you try to paint the Empire in as rosy a picture as possible, when they are explicitly intended to be the villains of their franchise?

Jesus Christ, as an Empire fanboy myself I cannot believe I have to explain this to you.

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This is fanfiction man. If she wants to write the Empire as the good guys and the Federation as bad guys that's her prerogative. I'd ask you why you keep reading and posting when you get increasingly angry with each passing chapter, but then that's your prerogative as well.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Oh I wasn't expecting them to eject the Empire.

More along the lines of them creating some tiny little rump state in the boondocks of galactic space perhaps.

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So, they basically turn from an idealized version of the Soviet Union into an idealized version of North Korea?

 

[iceknight90]

So, they basically turn from an idealized version of the Soviet Union into an idealized version of North Korea?

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That or, forgive me for bringing up the Disney shit, they flee and create something like the First Order was for the Empire.

The remnants of a toppled regime, maintaining the same ideals, iconography, and methodology, with revanchist goals.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

That or, forgive me for bringing up the Disney shit, they flee and create something like the First Order was for the Empire.

The remnants of a toppled regime, maintaining the same ideals, iconography, and methodology, with revanchist goals.

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They'd be very unpleasantly surprised if they think the Galactic Empire or whatever its successor state in this galaxy is will be as vulnerable like the Disney New Republic. Seriously, the latter is so...incompetent, it's not even funny. Disbanding 90% of the military, because democracy doesn't need protecting? A capital on rotation? Honestly, what the hell?

It's the kind of government that actually makes the Legends New Republic with Borsk Fey'lya in charge look competent and a paragon of good government. Hell, any of the post-Imperial warlords were more functional than the Disney New Republic. Legends Mon Mothma would almost certainly drink herself into a stupor trying to understand just what the hell was wrong with her counterpart, or the Senate. Anyone who tried to do that in Legends would have been laughed out of the Rotunda at best, or shipped off in a padded shuttle at worst.

 

[iceknight90]

They'd be very unpleasantly surprised if they think the Galactic Empire or whatever its successor state in this galaxy is will be as vulnerable like the Disney New Republic. Seriously, the latter is so...incompetent, it's not even funny. Disbanding 90% of the military, because democracy doesn't need protecting? A capital on rotation? Honestly, what the hell?

It's the kind of government that actually makes the Legends New Republic with Borsk Fey'lya in charge look competent and a paragon of good government. Hell, any of the post-Imperial warlords were more functional than the Disney New Republic. Legends Mon Mothma would almost certainly drink herself into a stupor trying to understand just what the hell was wrong with her counterpart, or the Senate. Anyone who tried to do that in Legends would have been laughed out of the Rotunda at best, or shipped off in a padded shuttle at worst.

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Oh I didn't say the revanchism was possible, or that they'd pull it off.

But I think it'd be interesting if there was something of a Federation left. Idealists left to carry the torch, and to continue prodding and needling at the new Imperial Order.

Or, rather than them holding ground, perhaps a rebel alliance, but for this galaxy and made up of Federation loyalists.

Either way, it would be interesting if these Federation remnants become more ruthless and warlike in their fight against the new order.

 

[Wild Transient]

Scientists, as well, such as Derek Whitehead who had uncovered evidence that transporters, regardless of the Federation's claims, actually did destroy people and merely replicated them at the target destination.

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I really want to see a pov from a regular feddie citizen regarding this revelation.

There was an Indian geneticist, Manas Adwani, who'd actually managed to correct the flaws in the Augmentation process, allowing for the birth of psychologically-stable Augments.

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This too is gonna have major consequences i think.

I don't know if Ambassador Spock knew or was involved."

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Personally i believe that if Spock had known about it he woud have done everything in his power to expose the truth to everyone

In fact, it was almost…comforting, when Q appeared in a flash of light. And for once, he didn't look or sound taunting.

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This.This is Q in serious mode.

This is fanfiction man. If she wants to write the Empire as the good guys and the Federation as bad guys that's her prerogative. I'd ask you why you keep reading and posting when you get increasingly angry with each passing chapter, but then that's your prerogative as well.

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I completely agree with you. The way Jaenera has written the Federation is very much plausible in my opinion.

 

[UnfortunateWatcher]

Thank you for showing what is behind the shiny face of communism. The death camps, the re-education centers, the propaganda, and the vanishing of opponents.
It's a glorious future, as long as you obey.
Of course, it's not like the Empire are the good guys here. They are a single step above them, but wow is it a huge gap.

 

[WhiteDragon25]

This is fanfiction man. If she wants to write the Empire as the good guys and the Federation as bad guys that's her prerogative. I'd ask you why you keep reading and posting when you get increasingly angry with each passing chapter, but then that's your prerogative as well.

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Don't use 'This is fanfiction, man!' as an excuse: that does not absolve it of valid criticism. Especially when it reads of thinly-veiled fascist apologism.

Jaenera Targaryen has repeatedly handed the Federation the Idiot Ball while having the Empire roll Nat 20s every time, with virtually negligible damage done to them, all the while completely butchering the Federation's character to make a false moral equivocation to the Empire's own heinous misdeeds, which reeks of whataboutism.

She has drawn completely unfounded conclusions about the Federation that have no basis in fact whatsoever, while handwaving away the fact that her self-insert is deliberately and willingly following the leadership of a literal evil space wizard, and is gleefully burning down a militarily weaker polity at his behest, all to impose a totalitarian fascist regime; and she has the gall to claim that somehow the Federation is a totalitarian regime of its own. It's one thing to claim the Federation is flawed, it's another to claim it's no better than Stalinist Russia, especially when you're cosplaying as Space Nazi Germany.

Not to mention how she is also ignoring the fact that there are legitimate authoritarian and totalitarian regimes neighboring the Federation. Did she somehow completely miss the fact that the Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, Breen, Tholians, Gorn, and about a dozen other empires border the UFP, and that they're a better point of comparison to the Empire than the Feds are? Or how about the fact that none of them would get along with the Empire, nor would they just sit by and watch the Feds get slaughtered when they would be next on the chopping block? None of them like the Feds, but considering the A/B Quadrant just got done with the Dominion War - as Jaenera so helpfully pinpointed the timeline here - they wouldn't tolerate such an obvious threat like the Empire, especially given its blatantly xenophobic and humano-centric nature. It's basically the Dominion all over again, but a thousand times worse.

And speaking of timelines here, that's another thing Jaenera is completely ignoring about the Star Trek setting: where're the fuck are all the space anomalies? You can't go a full week crossing Federation space without tripping over some sort of Negative Space Wedgie, god-like alien being, or temporal paradox; the Empire should be suffering brutal attrition rates from this factor alone. If anything, this should be the one thing the Federation has an advantage in: since when has anybody in the SW universe ever encountered a spatial anomaly more exotic than hyperspace eddies or Force-based shenanigans? Let alone have any response beyond 'just shoot it until it goes away'? I severely doubt the Empire has such countermeasures in mind.

Then there's all the bitching and moaning about 'COMMUNISM'! First off: the Federation isn't communist, it's post-scarcity; communism is effectively obsolete given the resources at the Federation's disposal. Secondly: you do realize that railing about the evils of communism rings exceedingly hollow when you're going about replacing it with the evils of fascism, right? And thirdly: might I remind you that holy shit is corporate capitalism in Star Wars absolutely awful. Nothing you've ever made up about the Federation's supposed 'crimes' can even hope to compare what the Corporate Sector alone has got up to, let alone any of the hundreds of mega-corporations that dominate the SW galaxy's economy! And yet your SI, Jaenera, has opened the door for those very same predatory vulture-capitalists to swoop in to exploit the devastated Federation's worlds. Yet somehow you're saying this is a good thing.


I could just go on and on here about the problems and unfortunate implications with this fic, but why would I need to after everything that's been already said here? Yet in all likelihood, absolutely none of it will be listened to or even be considered, because this fic already made up its mind: "Federation bad, Empire good!"

Still, one last thing before I end this post: consider this thought experiment, where every mention of 'the Empire' and 'the Federation' in this fic is replaced with 'Nazi Germany' and 'Poland' (or 'France') respectively. See the problem here? If your fic featuring the explicit Nazi analogue is favorably portrayed as the good guys, you're doing something wrong.

 

[Finagle007]

One more thing: That bit about transporters destroying and replicating people? Disproved by canon. In the DS9 episode "Playing God", they put a protouniverse through the transporter, TWICE, and it comes out unchanged both times. That's right, a protoUNIVERSE. There is simply no way in hell that the transporter is advanced enough to re-create an entire UNIVERSE, no matter how tiny, especially not twice.

 

[WhiteDragon25]

One more thing: That bit about transporters destroying and replicating people? Disproved by canon. In the DS9 episode "Playing God", they put a protouniverse through the transporter, TWICE, and it comes out unchanged both times. That's right, a protoUNIVERSE. There is simply no way in hell that the transporter is advanced enough to re-create an entire UNIVERSE, no matter how tiny, especially not twice.

Click to shrink...

Not to mention that one time that Barclay had to suck up his phobia about transporters and use one: not only was he conscious throughout the whole process, he actually managed to see something during it and later grabbed it, ending up rescuing one of the missing crew members of the derelict ship they were doing a recovery mission on.

None of this should've been possible if the transporter operated simply as 'copy-and-destroy'.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Don't use 'This is fanfiction, man!' as an excuse: that does not absolve it of valid criticism. Especially when it reads of thinly-veiled fascist apologism.

Jaenera Targaryen has repeatedly handed the Federation the Idiot Ball while having the Empire roll Nat 20s every time, with virtually negligible damage done to them, all the while completely butchering the Federation's character to make a false moral equivocation to the Empire's own heinous misdeeds, which reeks of whataboutism.

She has drawn completely unfounded conclusions about the Federation that have no basis in fact whatsoever, while handwaving away the fact that her self-insert is deliberately and willingly following the leadership of a literal evil space wizard, and is gleefully burning down a militarily weaker polity at his behest, all to impose a totalitarian fascist regime; and she has the gall to claim that somehow the Federation is a totalitarian regime of its own. It's one thing to claim the Federation is flawed, it's another to claim it's no better than Stalinist Russia, especially when you're cosplaying as Space Nazi Germany.

Not to mention how she is also ignoring the fact that there are legitimate authoritarian and totalitarian regimes neighboring the Federation. Did she somehow completely miss the fact that the Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, Breen, Tholians, Gorn, and about a dozen other empires border the UFP, and that they're a better point of comparison to the Empire than the Feds are? Or how about the fact that none of them would get along with the Empire, nor would they just sit by and watch the Feds get slaughtered when they would be next on the chopping block? None of them like the Feds, but considering the A/B Quadrant just got done with the Dominion War - as Jaenera so helpfully pinpointed the timeline here - they wouldn't tolerate such an obvious threat like the Empire, especially given its blatantly xenophobic and humano-centric nature. It's basically the Dominion all over again, but a thousand times worse.

And speaking of timelines here, that's another thing Jaenera is completely ignoring about the Star Trek setting: where're the fuck are all the space anomalies? You can't go a full week crossing Federation space without tripping over some sort of Negative Space Wedgie, god-like alien being, or temporal paradox; the Empire should be suffering brutal attrition rates from this factor alone. If anything, this should be the one thing the Federation has an advantage in: since when has anybody in the SW universe ever encountered a spatial anomaly more exotic than hyperspace eddies or Force-based shenanigans? Let alone have any response beyond 'just shoot it until it goes away'? I severely doubt the Empire has such countermeasures in mind.

Then there's all the bitching and moaning about 'COMMUNISM'! First off: the Federation isn't communist, it's post-scarcity; communism is effectively obsolete given the resources at the Federation's disposal. Secondly: you do realize that railing about the evils of communism rings exceedingly hollow when you're going about replacing it with the evils of fascism, right? And thirdly: might I remind you that holy shit is corporate capitalism in Star Wars absolutely awful. Nothing you've ever made up about the Federation's supposed 'crimes' can even hope to compare what the Corporate Sector alone has got up to, let alone any of the hundreds of mega-corporations that dominate the SW galaxy's economy! And yet your SI, Jaenera, has opened the door for those very same predatory vulture-capitalists to swoop in to exploit the devastated Federation's worlds. Yet somehow you're saying this is a good thing.


I could just go on and on here about the problems and unfortunate implications with this fic, but why would I need to after everything that's been already said here? Yet in all likelihood, absolutely none of it will be listened to or even be considered, because this fic already made up its mind: "Federation bad, Empire good!"

Still, one last thing before I end this post: consider this thought experiment, where every mention of 'the Empire' and 'the Federation' in this fic is replaced with 'Nazi Germany' and 'Poland' (or 'France') respectively. See the problem here? If your fic featuring the explicit Nazi analogue is favorably portrayed as the good guys, you're doing something wrong.

Click to shrink...

Why the fuck are you even here? All you do is bitch about Jaeneras interpretation of the Federation and give absolutely nothing of value. If you don't like the story so much just set it to 'ignore' and be done with it instead of clogging up peoples alerts with useless ranting no one cares about.

 

[Concorian]

Not to mention that one time that Barclay had to suck up his phobia about transporters and use one: not only was he conscious throughout the whole process, he actually managed to see something during it and later grabbed it, ending up rescuing one of the missing crew members of the derelict ship they were doing a recovery mission on.

None of this should've been possible if the transporter operated simply as 'copy-and-destroy'.

Click to shrink...

Two points. The actually say in various episodes and especially in the episode where they rescue scotty from the dyson sphere, that his pattern was degraded and he was lucky to survive the transporter. granted this was after a couple of decades but the point still stands, if you lose the data you are dead. then they can use the backup transportor inprint to bring a new copy.

Its also shown that yes the transporter can do weird shit. of the top of my head there was the regression in age. the advancment of age, the bloody cloning incident, the merging of species which happened twice in episodes. i mean in the entire enterprise tv show they refused to even use it except for cargo purely because they believe it was dodgy as all hell.

As for the federation being communist, it sort of is and its also heavily racists if you go of the tv shows. even simply by canon they have a mindset of self inprovement over wealth and contributing to the whole than the individual, this is a basis of the ideal communist. Give everything for the state not yourself kinda deal. they used alot of the same methods as the soviets did just better.

Literally in one episode they are trying to teach some people from the 20th centaury about the ideals and federation and the capitalist chap does say it seemed very communist. Troi even shows them a holodeck program that was for kids which comes of very brainwashy when you step back and think about it.

If you go of timeframe it all kinda went socialist post kirk era. and can be traced back to the election where the peace faction got a president. they stayed in power till ds9 era.

As for racist well the planets arent generally shown to socialise unless you are part of starfleet, and even then about 90% of the fleet are crewed by humans, even on the ships its rarely shown alien crew on the upper decks and certainly rare on the bridge, except the token crew like worf or troi.

When it comes to the economy its a very odd duck in startrek. Technically they are post scarity BUT they arent really. The interior economy is funded by power, and they use a currency called energy credits. These credits can be earned in numerous ways, one is a state stipend which is given to every citizen and you could live your entire life just on that but it only would cover the basics. The other was basically working. restaurants/cafes/artist/musicians and such they all allow people to make credits. The reasons you dont see that on the ships is because they have anitmatter reactors which provide ample power to run relipcators. and even then on large ships such as the galaxy, ambassadors and such they have something called a replimat, thats basically a large room with various sized replicators in acting like a market. usually for civilians and lower enlisted. Its the same on starbases.

For the out border economy they use latinum as it can be replicated and is rare as hell to mine. and yes trade does happen normally for raw materials mostly.

In fact the ferengi blame the federation for sinking numerous economies because they invented replicators after they got a bit fo tech which was the original fabricators.


No matter what you want to say and believe the federation did some pretty nasty and heinous things even if they were not meaning to. all the way back to archers time. Theyve allowed entire species to die when they could cure them, theyve stood by for extinction events. Theyve ignored entire wars that happened. and god forbide they literal sold of numerous worlds to the cardassians just for peace even though they were winning. Granted not on the level of the empire but still.

Whats surprising is that even though shes supposdly from a evil empire she hasnt actually done anything massivly evil yet. all shes done is rile up the population over something the federation and starfleet did. and even better shes using their own secrets against them its textbook spycraft and warcraft 1 or 1.

 

[Morkail]

You just really love to piss all over the idealistic and optimistic intent of Star Trek, don't you? Piss all over it, while fellating the fascist image of 'strength' that the Empire projects.

To further add insult to injury, you continue this absurd exaggeration of Section 31's actual reach and capability, making it out to be an all-controlling puppet-mastering conspiracy that is responsible for every bad thing to have ever happened, when in reality such a widely-spanning conspiracy would've never lasted even a month just as you have Riker explicitly state.

Why do you insist on making the Federation out to be the worst of Stalin's USSR and Mao's PRC combined, when there has been no evidence of any sort throughout the franchise? Meanwhile, you try to paint the Empire in as rosy a picture as possible, when they are explicitly intended to be the villains of their franchise?

Jesus Christ, as an Empire fanboy myself I cannot believe I have to explain this to you.

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mostly because as much as people like Star Trek the federation makes no damn sense Picard for instance is a true paragon of humanity but through out the show how many "red shirts" die and it just gets waved away. They make a point of saying humanity has evolved beyond its old urges and become better for it. Yet when push comes to shove we see again and again humans in this setting are still just that human.

It's very easy to believe all the actions that section 31 takes would be needed to keep such a society going because the federation as it's shown is a nation that has no place for free thinking people just brainwashed drones… very smart drones but still drones.

all of that and really if the federation was exactly as it showed it self to be this would be a much less interesting story lol.

so is there any chance that old pappy will gift her a dragon egg?

 

[Pef]

Star Trek has been from the start a romantisized version of communism, with most of the problems waved away by trek-tech like replicators and evolved morality. Later shows did point out some problems hidden away like Bashir, or made to disappear by Section 31, but never in clear terms, especially in regard to internal problems like dissenters or organized interests groups.
Now, while Starfleet has proved itself mostly incompetent (red shirts and other dubious practices), S31 would have been trained better and thus it's implausible they would built such a prison for inconvenient people. Occam's Razor states that if you arrange a teleport accident to vanish someone, you also don't bother the expense to reconstitute the person, and then imprison them for decades for more expenses.
PS: Even if they did (for some ilogic reason), once the Sol System was about to fall, an anti-matter fail-safe would have erased the evidence. Yet another supply depot blown away...

 

[AlphaOmega]

she hasnt actually done anything massivly evil yet.

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While I agree with you and I don't think it counts as massively evil (at least when compared to say, Grievous) I feel like I need to point out the orbital bombardment of San Francisco for the sake of fairness.

 

[Concorian]

Don't use 'This is fanfiction, man!' as an excuse: that does not absolve it of valid criticism. Especially when it reads of thinly-veiled fascist apologism.

Jaenera Targaryen has repeatedly handed the Federation the Idiot Ball while having the Empire roll Nat 20s every time, with virtually negligible damage done to them, all the while completely butchering the Federation's character to make a false moral equivocation to the Empire's own heinous misdeeds, which reeks of whataboutism.

She has drawn completely unfounded conclusions about the Federation that have no basis in fact whatsoever, while handwaving away the fact that her self-insert is deliberately and willingly following the leadership of a literal evil space wizard, and is gleefully burning down a militarily weaker polity at his behest, all to impose a totalitarian fascist regime; and she has the gall to claim that somehow the Federation is a totalitarian regime of its own. It's one thing to claim the Federation is flawed, it's another to claim it's no better than Stalinist Russia, especially when you're cosplaying as Space Nazi Germany.

Not to mention how she is also ignoring the fact that there are legitimate authoritarian and totalitarian regimes neighboring the Federation. Did she somehow completely miss the fact that the Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, Breen, Tholians, Gorn, and about a dozen other empires border the UFP, and that they're a better point of comparison to the Empire than the Feds are? Or how about the fact that none of them would get along with the Empire, nor would they just sit by and watch the Feds get slaughtered when they would be next on the chopping block? None of them like the Feds, but considering the A/B Quadrant just got done with the Dominion War - as Jaenera so helpfully pinpointed the timeline here - they wouldn't tolerate such an obvious threat like the Empire, especially given its blatantly xenophobic and humano-centric nature. It's basically the Dominion all over again, but a thousand times worse.

And speaking of timelines here, that's another thing Jaenera is completely ignoring about the Star Trek setting: where're the fuck are all the space anomalies? You can't go a full week crossing Federation space without tripping over some sort of Negative Space Wedgie, god-like alien being, or temporal paradox; the Empire should be suffering brutal attrition rates from this factor alone. If anything, this should be the one thing the Federation has an advantage in: since when has anybody in the SW universe ever encountered a spatial anomaly more exotic than hyperspace eddies or Force-based shenanigans? Let alone have any response beyond 'just shoot it until it goes away'? I severely doubt the Empire has such countermeasures in mind.

Then there's all the bitching and moaning about 'COMMUNISM'! First off: the Federation isn't communist, it's post-scarcity; communism is effectively obsolete given the resources at the Federation's disposal. Secondly: you do realize that railing about the evils of communism rings exceedingly hollow when you're going about replacing it with the evils of fascism, right? And thirdly: might I remind you that holy shit is corporate capitalism in Star Wars absolutely awful. Nothing you've ever made up about the Federation's supposed 'crimes' can even hope to compare what the Corporate Sector alone has got up to, let alone any of the hundreds of mega-corporations that dominate the SW galaxy's economy! And yet your SI, Jaenera, has opened the door for those very same predatory vulture-capitalists to swoop in to exploit the devastated Federation's worlds. Yet somehow you're saying this is a good thing.


I could just go on and on here about the problems and unfortunate implications with this fic, but why would I need to after everything that's been already said here? Yet in all likelihood, absolutely none of it will be listened to or even be considered, because this fic already made up its mind: "Federation bad, Empire good!"

Still, one last thing before I end this post: consider this thought experiment, where every mention of 'the Empire' and 'the Federation' in this fic is replaced with 'Nazi Germany' and 'Poland' (or 'France') respectively. See the problem here? If your fic featuring the explicit Nazi analogue is favorably portrayed as the good guys, you're doing something wrong.

Click to shrink...

1) the federation isnt weaker than the empire, the literally wiped out golan platfroms and a few star destroyers, they are flying pretty badass ships, it even says in the story that she had to cripple their communications to actually counter their tech edge and speeds. also they can field more ships as they need smaller crews but punch way above their level. Also they could have defence grides that are legitmatly terrifying but they didnt both, as was shown in discories future where they sheilded a whole planet.

2)shes very good at making deals like with the orions. Its what a officer with political power can do like she has, she isnt just an admiral she also has the power of a moff in the federations quadrant, just not at home. and more importanly shes just show that the feds locked up klingon dahar masters and romulan senators, they arent likely to want to help the feds after that reveal. More importanly no she hasnt forgotten the klingons or romulans, she being fighting them aswell, or did you miss the battle where the klingons attacked the crossing point? As for the others. the cardassians arent in any condition to help or hinder, the tholians wouldnt care either way and are probably still pissing about in alternate dimensions and times. the breen wont care aslong as she doesnt enter their space. and i think at this point the gorn are klingon client race i think.

And nope they arent worse than the dominion, at least the empire doesnt infilitrate your society with shapeshifters and then try and gank you while you are fighting battles. The empire is likely to staight up walk up and punch you in the face and the dare you do something about it. bare in mind the klingon are wariors they love a good scrap, the romulans likely are dueling the ISB and enjoying it.

Again the Federation looking from the outside is also pretty human centric along with xenophillic, all their major instituions are on earth, their fleets is crewed mostly by humans.

3) space anolmilies arent as common as you think or weird crap. space wedgies. or such. Bare in mind they arent going to find them simply because they arent looking for them, The empires there with a warfleet not a science fleet. The Federation doesnt have warships they have science ships that have weapons on them. when they see a intresting thing or anomaly they run right at it at the highest possible speed, thats why you see them all the time its their job to mess with them.

For example how big would an episode be if all it show was them getting from point a to b. every tv episode was an event not the norm. Voyager is a prime example, they skippy weeks and months of travel before episodes, usually enough time to repair what was damaged last time. Space travel is normally boring.
Again we dont know what science issues crop up in starwars simply because its not from the point of view of scientists, they are all usually rebels, soldiers, politicians or the navy. no of which are usually science trained. The only times science weirdness happens that we read about its usually by on of those mentioned doing it.

4) It is communist, thats the whole point, gene roddenberry literally said he wrote TNG to embody his ideal thoughts on socialism. its what he envision a post scarity soclist nation would be like. and again its only TNG and those that came after that its like that. In kirks time the federation wasnt a post scarity society, they did have corporations and money, it was slowly fazed out once the first fabricators became a thing usually used on starships for spare parts and the evolved into replicators. Nut even then it wasnt a true blue post scarity society, they still need power which was limited as they used fusion on planets not antimatter, and they did use foundries to produce feedstock for their replicators.

If they were a true scarity they wouldnt be building starships as they did, they would simply use replicators for everything as they would have power to do it. But t hand it to them they were heading there but they were still a type 1 on the kardashev scale, for true scarity you need to be type 2 or 3 which involces dyson sphers and capturing a stars power, its also when they achieve stellar lifting.

Its odd but the empire actually does have those abilities they have stellar lifters(the starforge(destroyed)) , they have stellar engines(in the corellia system and was used to build the current systemin the past), the also have world devasators which can strip worlds and stars for resources. they also regualry build stupid super weapons but still the galaxy gun, deathstars, super star destroyers, and such which the feds cant and wont. the empire would just be edging into tier 2 except they generally regress techwise in cycles of wars.

 

[Concorian]

While I agree with you and I don't think it counts as massively evil (at least when compared to say, Grievous) I feel like I need to point out the orbital bombardment of San Francisco for the sake of fairness.

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Yep but she didnt aim for civilians or order the city bombard, what she ordered to be hit was the academy and starfleet headquarters, technically what she did was hit a military target next to a civilian population. the problem is starwars weapons arent designed for pinpointing targets like that they are designed for space battles and thats something the mpire inherited from the republic past.

Also the action was a legitamitly valid military tactic, and its sad to say were do the same nowadays in our own modern day militarys,we just designed out weapons to be better at hitting what we want. the empire used a sledge hammer, whereas we would s a nail gun from miles away and get the same result or pounding that nail in.

 

[Concorian]

Star Trek has been from the start a romantisized version of communism, with most of the problems waved away by trek-tech like replicators and evolved morality. Later shows did point out some problems hidden away like Bashir, or made to disappear by Section 31, but never in clear terms, especially in regard to internal problems like dissenters or organized interests groups.
Now, while Starfleet has proved itself mostly incompetent (red shirts and other dubious practices), S31 would have been trained better and thus it's implausible they would built such a prison for inconvenient people. Occam's Razor states that if you arrange a teleport accident to vanish someone, you also don't bother the expense to reconstitute the person, and then imprison them for decades for more expenses.
PS: Even if they did (for some ilogic reason), once the Sol System was about to fall, an anti-matter fail-safe would have erased the evidence. Yet another supply depot blown away...

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It wasnt just bashir either, they literally locked up anyone with genetic augments no matter where they got them and they called it an asylum, thats what the nazis did with disabled or different people before they started just killing them, same as the soviets.
The joke is amusing that redshirts are more prone to die but it was once worked out that its the blue shirts that died most, its just the redshirts were generally used more simply decause they were security. aslong as everyone else got ot safety they died doing their duty.

When it comes to section 31 they were like all the intelligence agencies rolled into one. Their really was a whole conspiracy with them hidden in plane sight, The had uniforms/ commbadges/ ships of their own with even in one book having scracth built defiant serving with a full section 31 crew. they also had outposts and stations. The problem with the whole thing is technically they were a legitimate part of the federation and starfleet, and the charter that was used to found the federation includes mentions of them in it. and they even use that numerous times to cvonvince people what they do is for the good of the federation. In pretty much gaurenteed that a few admirals either knew or were section 31 and the president was likely in the know or someone from the federation council.

Also when the balls up its usually on a whole different level, look at control for instance, they allowed a sentient malevolant ai lose and were luckly they stopped it in time. and in theory section 31 was what adrmial marcus was supposed to be in the newer movies. and he built a huge dreadnaught near jupiter and held vulnerable augments hostage to get what he wanted.

Also in the books and shows usually when they were found out, they usually turned out to have 2 agents on most ships as a just in case. and they also didnt usually know who they both were. bare in mind they recruited the same as starfleet. In one book they even mention having a cloaked ship collected some of their agents when their operation was done.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Its odd but the empire actually does have those abilities they have stellar lifters(the starforge(destroyed)) , they have stellar engines(in the corellia system and was used to build the current systemin the past), the also have world devasators which can strip worlds and stars for resources. they also regualry build stupid super weapons but still the galaxy gun, deathstars, super star destroyers, and such which the feds cant and wont. the empire would just be edging into tier 2 except they generally regress techwise in cycles of wars.

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You used 'the Empire' instead of 'Star Wars' here. The Empire isn't even a decade old, it's the republci that has been around for 25,000 years.

 

[Concorian]

You used 'the Empire' instead of 'Star Wars' here. The Empire isn't even a decade old, it's the republci that has been around for 25,000 years.

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True. but dont foget the older republics and empires aswell

 

[AlphaOmega]

True. but dont foget the older republics and empires aswell

Click to shrink...

What older republics? There was only one Galactic Republic, even if it was restored a couple times. And the only other significant Empires were the Hutt Empire, Xims Empire (even if it didn't last long) and the Sith Empire and it's succesors. There were also the Rakatans but they are more the Ancient Precursors.

 

[Concorian]

technically i think the republic before the empire was the 3rd, and then you had the new republic after and then the weird two empire/republic with a different name after that. For the sith there were 4 sith empires, then you had the eternal empire which did both republic and sith in.

Plus before the rakatan you had the 3 republics of the core and then the first republic based out of coruscant, thats when the original works were built.