John Oliver on Donald Trump

[Cambrian]

Really enjoyed this video, but then I've always been a sucker for political satire.

That said, there's a moment in the video where they play a clip of Donald Trump advising that to deal with ISIS, the best thing to do would be to take out the families of ISIS members entirely, because they care and their families are a weakness to exploit.

That kind of killed my amusement, though the ending of the video was still 10/10

I dunno, at this point I'm expecting Donald Trump to end up being the Republican Nominee. I'm just holding out hope that the majority of America will take one look at that and laugh before voting for someone else.

And honestly, I don't really know if there's a viable candidate for President in this election on either side. But the more I see on the subject of Trump, the more I feel like almost anyone has to be better than him.

Thoughts?

 

[kinglugia]

I think I want that Drumpft extension.

 

[pepperjack]

And honestly, I don't really know if there's a viable candidate for President in this election on either side.

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I could easily see a President Clinton or Sanders. Unfortunately, thanks to the less than stellar example of certain presidents past, I can also all-too-easily envision a President Rubio or Cruz.

President Drumpf would be a nightmare.

 

[TLW]

Meh. I usually watch his videos for combination of entertainment and education, but i don't really care about Trump enough to want to learn more about him or to find Oliver making a fun out of him to be that entertaining.

So this one was not terribly interesting to me.

 

[Valette-Serafina]

Meh. I usually watch his videos for combination of entertainment and education, but i don't really care about Trump enough to want to learn more about him or to find Oliver making a fun out of him to be that entertaining.

So this one was not terribly interesting to me.

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Donald Trump is a man who advocates war crimes on national television, considers a million dollars a small amount of money, and lies constantly.

He is a candidate for the office of President of the United States.

 

[TLW]

I know who he is.

I just don't give slightest fuck about him.

 

[Valette-Serafina]

I know who he is.

I just don't give slightest fuck about him.

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If you live in...
Well, the world. If you live on earth, you should be a little worried about the possibility of him winning. That would be...

Bad.

 

[Larekko12]

I'm voting for Clinton.

 

[Xicree]

President Drumpf would be a nightmare.

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I would take Drumpf over Cruz...

The difference between them being that T is riding a racist wave to victory... Cruz is a Religious NUTJOB who is ALSO racist and insane, but better at putting on a show.

Both are slimeballs, but I'd bet a horse on Trump not being half what he puts forward compared to Cruz and his infuckingsane father whom he allows to speak Loudly on his behalf saying the things which wouldn't be 'politically expedient' to say for him.

 

[Larekko12]

Also this turned me on to John olliver so thanks.

 

[pepperjack]

I would take Drumpf over Cruz...

The difference between them being that T is riding a racist wave to victory... Cruz is a Religious NUTJOB who is ALSO racist and insane, but better at putting on a show.

Both are slimeballs, but I'd bet a horse on Trump not being half what he puts forward compared to Cruz and his infuckingsane father whom he allows to speak Loudly on his behalf saying the things which wouldn't be 'politically expedient' to say for him.

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Drumpf is the one who polls well with authoritarians. A religious nutjob is bad, but in my view, an authoritarian president would be disastrous.

 

[Xicree]

Drumpf is the one who polls well with authoritarians. A religious nutjob is bad, but in my view, an authoritarian president would be disastrous.

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You think Cruz is any better?

The only thing is that he's better at is hiding his craziness from full view, and letting it soak in from around the corners. If he had the country's attention in any similar way to Trump he'd be FAR worse.

 

[pepperjack]

You think Cruz is any better?

The only thing is that he's better at is hiding his craziness from full view, and letting it soak in from around the corners. If he had the country's attention in any similar way to Trump he'd be FAR worse.

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I actually don't know a whole lot about Cruz. I'm pretty sure he's not nearly so authoritarian as Trump, though, and American Authoritarianism is one of the scariest things I can think of. People think it can't happen, but the more I read, the more I think it easily could.

Ultimately, it doesn't much matter what I think, since I won't have any influence over the Republican primary and I'd vote against either in the general election regardless.

 

[TehChron]

Cruz got his political headway done based on him contributing to the stonewallings that lead to the government being shut down during the Obama administration

Hes a fucking fool, and a stubborn one to boot

 

[Vanathor]

That said, there's a moment in the video where they play a clip of Donald Trump advising that to deal with ISIS, the best thing to do would be to take out the families of ISIS members entirely, because they care and their families are a weakness to exploit.

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Well, he is not wrong. It's immoral and illegal, but disproportionate retaliation is a thing for a reason.

"Fuck with us, and I won't just kill you. I will kill your family, your friends, and everyone you care about, and make you watch. And only then you get to die."

You do it often and consistent enough, and eventually the group as a whole gets the message.

It's the same reason the Cartels are broadly unmolested in Mexico.

 

[pepperjack]

As effective as that policy may have been for Mexican drug cartels, I'm sure you'll forgive Cambrian for finding the realization that a frontrunner for American Presidential nomination seriously advocated for the commission of war crimes on national television to be a bit of a buzzkill.

 

[Vanathor]

As effective as that policy may have been for Mexican drug cartels, I'm sure you'll forgive Cambrian for finding the realization that a frontrunner for American Presidential nomination seriously advocated for the commission of war crimes on national television to be a bit of a buzzkill.

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I think their is an argument to be had for its use against non-state actors like ISIS. For it to be a war crime, it has to be a war. Taking on a group like ISIS and its supporters is just pest control.

 

[pepperjack]

I think their is an argument to be had for its use against non-state actors like ISIS. For it to be a war crime, it has to be a war. Taking on a group like ISIS and its supporters is just pest control.

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The only reason I don't find the dehumanization in that last statement to be equally as disturbing as Trump's is the fact that, to the best of my knowledge, you're not currently running for public office.

 

[Vanathor]

The only reason I don't find the dehumanization in that last statement to be equally as disturbing as Trump's is the fact that, to the best of my knowledge, you're not currently running for public office.

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Given ISIS is a literal death cult, trying to start trigger World War 3 for their endtimes prophecy I don't see why we should be merciful. Its not like they would be in the reverse.

The reason you have the Geneva Conventions with nation-states, is nation-states are rational actors. They are not suicidal and can be reasoned with. With these sort of guys who dream of being martyrs, you can't reason with them. The kindest thing you can do is put them down.

 

[pepperjack]

Given ISIS is a literal death cult, trying to start trigger World War 3 for their endtimes prophecy I don't see why we should be merciful. Its not like they would be in the reverse.

The reason you have the Geneva Conventions with nation-states, is nation-states are rational actors. They are not suicidal and can be reasoned with. With these sort of guys who dream of being martyrs, you can't reason with them. The kindest thing you can do is put them down.

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Regardless of the rational capacity of your enemies, it's never okay to pretend they aren't human. Referring to combating ISIS as "pest control" is a step down that road, and it's a step that anyone who cares about clear-headed ethical action shouldn't take.

 

[Vanathor]

Regardless of the rational capacity of your enemies, it's never okay to pretend they aren't human. Referring to combating ISIS as "pest control" is a step down that road, and it's a step that anyone who cares about clear-headed ethical action shouldn't take.

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It's not about ethics. It's about putting down a rabid dog. Sometimes Ol' Yeller gets the rabies, and you have to take him behind the shed and shoot him. No other options.

 

[pepperjack]

It's not about ethics. It's about putting down a rabid dog. Sometimes Ol' Yeller gets the rabies, and you have to take him behind the shed and shoot him. No other options.

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I think you're either missing my point or deliberately trolling, because you're doing it again. Equating human beings with non-human animals in order to justify breaches of ethics against them is pretty much the definition of dehumanization.

tl;dr: that's bad, stop doing it.

 

[Vanathor]

I think you're either missing my point or deliberately trolling, because you're doing it again. Equating human beings with non-human animals in order to justify breaches of ethics against them is pretty much the definition of dehumanization.

tl;dr: that's bad, stop doing it.

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When your end goal is nothing less then the end goal of civilization you stop being civilized. And that is the difference being a person and being a beast wearing a person's skin.

Wild animals can go and do their own thing and so long as they stay away from the farm, no one cares. But start affecting real people like their actions are doing, that is the point you start the culling. ISIS has long since reached this point.

 

[pepperjack]

I think we're done here.

 

[Vanathor]

I think we're done here.

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Being human and being a person are two completely different things. One is a prerequisite for the other, and the threshold of personhood is pretty dang low, but it exists.

 

[DCF]

Yeah, I'm hoping Clinton wins the election. By a landslide.

 

[Valette-Serafina]

It's not about ethics. It's about putting down a rabid dog. Sometimes Ol' Yeller gets the rabies, and you have to take him behind the shed and shoot him. No other options.

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I really should have watched this thread. Vanathor, you're not arguing for killing terrorists. You're arguing for killing innocent people related to terrorists. You're arguing that soldiers kicking in doors and shooting infants is acceptable, because the deaths of children will hurt their parents.

Did you realise that?

 

[Vanathor]

I really should have watched this thread. Vanathor, you're not arguing for killing terrorists. You're arguing for killing innocent people related to terrorists. You're arguing that soldiers kicking in doors and shooting infants is acceptable, because the deaths of children will hurt their parents.

Did you realise that?

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Around 150 years before the supposed time of Christ, their was a Roman Senator named Cato The Elder. This was during the Punic Wars, where after each and every speech he gave, he uttered the phrase "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam", or in modern English "Further more, Carthage must be destroyed."

Because whenever Rome kept the kids gloves on, Carthage just kept coming back, and kept striking at Rome. They needed a way to stop Carthage, and what they kept trying was not working. And well, then we get to the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over, and over and over again. And expecting shit to change.

So it became time for a different policy. A permanent one. Rome's solution to the Carthage problem, was that they killed all the men of fighting age within its borders and territories, took the women as brides and split them across the Empire's vast borders, and sold the children into slavery. Then they burned Carthage to the ground, and salted the earth so nothing would every grow where Carthage stood, for a thousand years.

Their solution worked. Carthage never bothered Rome, ever again.

Now, I am not saying that the secondary part of their solution is worthwhile. Slavery of any sort is an abomination and makes us just as bad as they are.

But the rest? ISIS is Carthage, and the West at large is Rome. Time to kill them all and salt the fields. And then they won't step up again, afterwards.

 

[Valette-Serafina]

Around 150 years before the supposed time of Christ, their was a Roman Senator named Cato The Elder. This was during the Punic Wars, where after each and every speech he gave, he uttered the phrase "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam", or in modern English "Further more, Carthage must be destroyed."

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And we should all admire Roman ideas of civilisation. Their ideas about slavery were positively enlightening, after all. Oh, and blood sports.

And well, then we get to the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over, and over and over again. And expecting shit to change.

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That's not the definition of insanity. It's a stupid quote, stop spreading it.

So it became time for a different policy. A permanent one. Rome's solution to the Carthage problem, was that they killed all the men of fighting age within its borders and territories, took the women as brides and split them across the Empire's vast borders, and sold the children into slavery. Then they burned Carthage to the ground, and salted the earth so nothing would every grow where Carthage stood, for a thousand years.

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Myth. They didn't have that much salt, nor manpower.

Their solution worked. Carthage never bothered Rome, ever again.

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And everyone else took one look and said "Nope, not bothering Rome."

Except no, that didn't happen.

Now, I am not saying that the secondary part of their solution is worthwhile. Slavery of any sort is an abomination and makes us just as bad as they are.

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But you are saying that murdering children won't. Don't sidestep this, you are arguing for the murder of infant children.

But the rest? ISIS is Carthage, and the West at large is Rome. Time to kill them all and salt the fields. And then they won't step up again, afterwards.

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You said some things.

It's not about ethics. It's about putting down a rabid dog. Sometimes Ol' Yeller gets the rabies, and you have to take him behind the shed and shoot him. No other options.

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When your end goal is nothing less then the end goal of civilization you stop being civilized. And that is the difference being a person and being a beast wearing a person's skin.

Wild animals can go and do their own thing and so long as they stay away from the farm, no one cares. But start affecting real people like their actions are doing, that is the point you start the culling. ISIS has long since reached this point.

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You've decided to ignore international law against those you consider uncivilised, discarding thousands of years of progress towards universal human rights. You are an enemy of Civilisation.

Who will put you down, rabid dog?

 

[Vanathor]

And everyone else took one look and said "Nope, not bothering Rome."

Except no, that didn't happen.

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Rome was brought down ~800 years later from internal issues, not externalties. So yeah, it kind of did.

But you are saying that murdering children won't. Don't sidestep this, you are arguing for the murder of infant children.

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Unfortunate, but necessary. Ghengis Khan taught the Middle East a very effective lesson, and its time to give them a reminder.

You've decided to ignore international law against those you consider uncivilised, discarding thousands of years of progress towards universal human rights. You are an enemy of Civilisation.

Who will put you down, rabid dog?

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If the rest of the world is willing to end the world to try, I guess. Fortunately the US has more nukes then every other power on earth (sans russia) combined.

International law isn't worth jackshit if you don't have the power to enforce it.

Nor is it the defining trait of civilization.