Just a Phase [Worm]

[Michael Morningstar]

So is this actually back or just a one off update?

 

[DrWhoFan13]

So is this actually back or just a one off update?

Click to shrink...

A bit of both. While it's back, updates will remain infrequent for whatever reason.

 

[RogueInquisitor]

So, I think Nebula is being overly optimistic. First, his plan relies on Taylor screwing up and doing something illegal enough to bother indicting her on. Given how careful Taylor has been with her Malicious Compliance/Bothering By The Book, that isn't likely. The second problem is, even if they can arrest and indict her, get her before a judge, and force her into a deal of "Wards in lieu of prison," by exploiting their position as her legal guardians, it still probably doesn't get them what they want. They still rely on the threat of "do as we say, or go to prison," but don't actually want to send her to prison. Taylor, on the other hand, likely doesn't care, which means she'll constantly be calling that bluff. And if they do follow through, no prison short of the Birdcage can hold her. Trying to arrest Taylor is a lose condition for the PRT, and Nebula clearly doesn't get that.

 

[Zentari2238]

I don't understand why she refuses to trust us.

Click to shrink...

Might be because you have made a mockery of both the law AND its spirit itself, while also pissing on whatever M.O. you spout daily. Then, when it's pointed out that you have failed to do anything about anything, you consider 'we are a totally different branch' to be a good/valid rebuttal to said issues. That's without going into the general sleezyness that your own branch employs.
But it could be that she simply dislikes your haircut instead, I'm sure!

"WhY wOuLdN't AnYoNe TrUsT uS?!?!"

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Might be because you have made a mockery of both the law AND its spirit itself, while also pissing on whatever M.O. you spout daily. Then, when it's pointed out that you have failed to do anything about anything, you consider 'we are a totally different branch' to be a good/valid rebuttal to said issues. That's without going into the general sleezyness that your own branch employs.
But it could be that she simply dislikes your haircut instead, I'm sure!

"WhY wOuLdN't AnYoNe TrUsT uS?!?!"

Click to shrink...

And specifically in Nebula's case? When Taylor flat out told him two of the three girls that triggered her by trying to murder her were Wards in Brockton Bay? He all but patted her on the head and said "There, there girly. I'm sure it couldn't have been that bad."

Now why should someone he condescended to fail to trust him?

 

[Prince Charon]

And specifically in Nebula's case? When Taylor flat out told him two of the three girls that triggered her by trying to murder her were Wards in Brockton Bay? He all but patted her on the head and said "There, there girly. I'm sure it couldn't have been that bad."

Now why should someone he condescended to fail to trust him?

Click to shrink...

Well, at least it's clearly in-character for him to be an idiot, and least in terms of interacting with traumatised people.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

Honestly I am interested in seeing some of the people in Boston interact with the Brockton Department at some point, specifically Emma, just so they can see the kind of department that let a situation like Taylor's happen. Cus we all know by this point Brockton isn't running like it should so it would be interesting to see someone from an actual function PRT department look in on them.

 

[SlickRCBD]

And specifically in Nebula's case? When Taylor flat out told him two of the three girls that triggered her by trying to murder her were Wards in Brockton Bay? He all but patted her on the head and said "There, there girly. I'm sure it couldn't have been that bad."

Now why should someone he condescended to fail to trust him?

Click to shrink...

I was bullied like Taylor in high school (minus The Locker and anything to do with e-mail or cell phones due to this being in the mid 1990's when it was illegal to have a cell phone at a K-12 school in Illinois from 1988-2002), and both the school psychologist and the Dean acted that way and said I was exaggerating how bad it was. They were worse than Blackwell in that they punished me for "getting involved in a violent incident" or "not de-escalating the situation". Then they started to say I had "no respect for authority" instead of realizing that I simply had no respect for them after they lost my respect due to double standards and unfair treatment. Also couldn't comprehend why I didn't trust them when they'd blame me for anything and everything then punish me for stuff caused by the bullies.

So people like him not comprehending why victims don't trust or respect them is normal in my experience.

 

[Michael Morningstar]

Huh a worm fic that's not in the nsfw section? Now that's a travesty

Taylor: "oooh lily~ could you come over here?"

 

[A/N]

Now I'm hoping Lisa manages to pouch Taylor, as her own independent vigilante to point at targets and then get surprised at the overachieving determinator that inevitably upsets the status quo. Can't really see much more development with the PRT, Sophia and Emma aren't going to get punished, Taylor loathes her position and that isn't likely to change. Making a break for it after some successful vigilante stuff could be interesting.

 

[Michael Morningstar]

snip

Click to shrink...

Imagine Taylor does join Lisa that would be a perfect way to get some nsfw even as just omake's

Taylor got trapped and now she's looking to imprison the heroes, like flachete is chasing her and Taylor traps her in a wall and teases her till she's red faced and begging~

 

[TheTinyGrayDog]

You know... one thing I noticed is through the entire interlude is that No one called Taylor by her real name. Just the name the PRT forced on her. I wonder if that is symbolic of the fact that all parties is just trying to use Taylor for their own ends instead of caring about the person behind the title.

Heck, not even Lisa used her real name even though she found out everything that happened to her.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

You know... one thing I noticed is through the entire interlude is that No one called Taylor by her real name. Just the name the PRT forced on her. I wonder if that is symbolic of the fact that all parties is just trying to use Taylor for their own ends instead of caring about the person behind the title.

Click to shrink...

Could be a security thing. WoG is none of the Brockton Bay Wards know Taylor's name. It is probable Nebula doesn't either, and Taylor only shared it with the Boston Wards. Gauss as the team leader and her nominal Hero mentor is on the Need to Know List, which is why she was there for Taylor's impressment.

Really using a hero's civilian name is a security breach, like Emma using Taylor's name on the official messaging system.

Edit: Actually rereading that section to check, something popped out at me, from Gauss explaining Taylor isn't technically violating any rules.

"The hobby time rules were never meant to be used like this, but between that, the fact that the 'no unauthorized patrols' is apparently enforced through Image rules, and Massachusetts' own lax vigilante laws, Phase is in the clear."

It seems we have another loophole. Image rules only apply if Taylor has an official PRT branded Image. Which can't happen till the PR Image team gets her power testing results...

Is that refusal of power testing regulation Charlie Alpha Tango Charlie Hotel-Two Two? Because that is some catch.

It also means the Brockton Bay Team is fucked when caught, because they have gotten Image branding, and are subject to those rules.

Rennick sighed, "What your baracks lawyer failed to figure out? Is that in the purely hypothetical case of a provisional Ward going on patrol? In theory until Image finalizes a Ward's official image for the public, the provisional Ward can't be punished for any allegeded unauthorized patroling. And if they maintain their theoretical insistence on not undergoing power testing, the whole onboarding process of this notional Ward is in limbo."

Rennick glared at the Wards in front of him, so Piggot didn't have to take official notice that included manditory reporting to the Youth Guard. "However in the very real cases in front of me, none of that applies. Since you all did undergo power testing then Image Branding by PR."

 

[KingCrimson1081]

It also means the Brockton Bay Team is fucked when caught, because they have gotten Image branding, and are subject to those rules.

Rennick sighed, "What your baracks lawyer failed to figure out? Is that in the purely hypothetical case of a provisional Ward going on patrol? In theory until Image finalizes a Ward's official image for the public, the provisional Ward can't be punished for any allegeded unauthorized patroling. And if they maintain their theoretical insistence on not undergoing power testing, the whole onboarding process of this notional Ward is in limbo."

Rennick glared at the Wards in front of him, so Piggot didn't have to take official notice that included manditory reporting to the Youth Guard. "However in the very real cases in front of me, none of that applies. Since you all did undergo power testing then Image Branding by PR."

Click to shrink...

Plus they can't even pretend to be different capes since it was mentioned earlier in the story that Wards rules prohibit Wards from having alternate identities outside of their approved one so they are fucked if they try that as well.

Besides that I have to wonder what the PRT legal team is doing regarding Phase since they can't change the Wards charter on account of one Ward who hasn't technically done anything wrong without changing the charter for the entire program which is probably not an easy thing to do. The only option they really have would be to change her contract which they can't do without her consent.

 

[SlickRCBD]

Plus they can't even pretend to be different capes since it was mentioned earlier in the story that Wards rules prohibit Wards from having alternate identities outside of their approved one so they are fucked if they try that as well.

Besides that I have to wonder what the PRT legal team is doing regarding Phase since they can't change the Wards charter on account of one Ward who hasn't technically done anything wrong without changing the charter for the entire program which is probably not an easy thing to do. The only option they really have would be to change her contract which they can't do without her consent.

Click to shrink...

Maybe not the charter, but make power testing mandatory instead of optional. Although again, what happens if she refuses to comply? They can't force her for proper testing, and I'm sure the Youth Guard would frown on many of the tests I can think of that would be needed to force her.

Although the real problem is what happens if Taylor stops even pretending to comply with anything to do with the Wards?
Skipping times she is supposed to be in the common room and going out.
I mean obviously they can withhold her paycheck since she wasn't working, but if she is supplementing her income with her vigilante activities, there's a good chance she's earning more than $70-140 a week a minimum wage part-time job for a teenager.would pull in after deductions.
However, other than that what could they do if she spends all her time away from the PRT base, only showing up for meals and to sleep?

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Maybe not the charter, but make power testing mandatory instead of optional. Although again, what happens if she refuses to comply? They can't force her for proper testing, and I'm sure the Youth Guard would frown on many of the tests I can think of that would be needed to force her.

Click to shrink...

And the Youth Guard might take issue with such changes to 'get' a Ward, especially one helpful to them. After her father signed the employment contract against her express wishes. Courts tend to frown on changing a contract when all sides don't agree to the amendment.

At best the PRT might be able to push through the change, but grandfather in anyone already signed up on the Youth Guard's insistence that those who 'joined' already under the old rules might have considered differently under the new ones. It might stop 'The next Phase', but not the one they want.

That is if you can push through such a bureaucratic change in a timely manner. After all they only have two years and change to do so, rules comittes and various approvals, including the Youth Guard and potentially Congressional Hearings can eat up most of that.

"We have a rules change, all Wards must undergo power testing."

Taylor looked at her watch, "And I just turned eighteen, six hours ago. And submitted my resignation paperwork five hours and fifty-nine minutes ago. Since I'm no longer a Ward, those regulations do not apply to me."

 

[The Unicorn]

The problem is they can require Taylor to go through testing, they can't make her cooperate in the testing and if she isn't cooperating, they're better off not wasting their time since they won't be able to find out anything about her powers.

 

[BF110C4]

A more serious issue is that if Taylor is caught breaking vigilante laws the PRT/Protectorate will have enough cause for asking a judge to force Phase through mandatory power testing because is almost certain breaking those is a felony (putting a costume to do copious assault and battery on criminals is frowned by the justice system) and against felons many rights are wavered, especially those that make keeping criminals from committing crimes harder.

That said, the basic problem hasn't changed yet. If they push too hard Taylor she will run or officially become a villain, and the adults while not particularly competent to deal with Piggot's mess are not stupid enough to wish such a lose-lose scenario.

 

[PostwarGryphon]

That said, the basic problem hasn't changed yet. If they push too hard Taylor she will run or officially become a villain, and the adults while not particularly competent to deal with Piggot's mess are not stupid enough to wish such a lose-lose scenario.

Click to shrink...

I dunno, according to the most recent chapter at least one of them is dumb enough to think that punishing Taylor as a criminal sounds like a wonderful idea, even though they were immediately told their idea was stupid by the other person in the room.

 

[The Unicorn]

A more serious issue is that if Taylor is caught breaking vigilante laws the PRT/Protectorate will have enough cause for asking a judge to force Phase through mandatory power testing

Click to shrink...

Nope.
You seem to have missed the point, They are already quite capable of forcing Taylor to sit in a room while they try and evaluate her powers, but that's the most they can force her to do. Without Taylor's active cooperation any attempt at power testing is pointless and they know it.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

A more serious issue is that if Taylor is caught breaking vigilante laws the PRT/Protectorate will have enough cause for asking a judge to force Phase through mandatory power testing because is almost certain breaking those is a felony (putting a costume to do copious assault and battery on criminals is frowned by the justice system) and against felons many rights are wavered, especially those that make keeping criminals from committing crimes harder.

Click to shrink...

Breaking vigilante laws in Worm is easier said than done considering it took Sophia crucifying and killing a man before the Protectorate finally took notice and try and arrest her. So Taylor giving a few bruises and breaking a bone or two shouldn't be grounds enough to actually push for an arrest, cus you know injuries will happen during an arrest especially against gangsters and other parahumans. Not sure how law enforcement considers vigilantes considering they have pretty much become cultural staples at this point on Earth Bet.

 

[The Unicorn]

Breaking vigilante laws in Worm is easier said than done considering it took Sophia crucifying and killing a man before the Protectorate finally took notice and try and arrest her. So Taylor giving a few bruises and breaking a bone or two shouldn't be grounds enough to actually push for an arrest, cus you know injuries will happen during an arrest especially against gangsters and other parahumans. Not sure how law enforcement considers vigilantes considering they have pretty much become cultural staples at this point on Earth Bet.

Click to shrink...

Do keep in mind there's a very large difference between what is technically illegal, but nobody actually cares and what is blatantly illegal and enough to get the cops actively hunting you down.
Sophia pinning gangster to the wall and leaving them to bleed to death was enough to pass the second threshold, but she presumably broke the law many times before that, just not anything serious enough to get them actively hunting her.

Taylor will have to avoid breaking the law at all since they'll be watching for even minor violations that would normally be ignored.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

Do keep in mind there's a very large difference between what is technically illegal, but nobody actually cares and what is blatantly illegal and enough to get the cops actively hunting you down.
Sophia pinning gangster to the wall and leaving them to bleed to death was enough to pass the second threshold, but she presumably broke the law many times before that, just not anything serious enough to get them actively hunting her.

Taylor will have to avoid breaking the law at all since they'll be watching for even minor violations that would normally be ignored.

Click to shrink...

Considering that vigilantes are allowed to take loot from criminals I imagine that there is a pretty high threshold to cross into illegality. Plus I imagine brutality charges for vigilantes only really apply if they cause permanent injury, keep attacking after the person goes unconscious or surrenders, or actually kill the person. It is unrealistic considering the setting that Taylor could get in trouble for beating up some gangers, especially if they are actively fighting back against her. So they can't really charge or go after Taylor if she breaks some mugger's arm or else they would alienate all the other independent vigilantes in Boston who will now think the PRT/Protectorate is gonna come after them for minor things like that.

Edit:

Considering Taylor initial load out when she went out as Ghost being some pepper spray and a taser I don't really think the PRT/Protectorate will be able to charge her with brutality unless something goes really wrong, like in the pevel of the canon Lung fight wrong.

What is more likely is that they charge Taylor for a crime if she causes an x amount of property damage, or if a bystander gets injured during one of her outings. Because as it stands it is unlikely that Taylor will brutalize someone, she isn't like Sophia or Emma who get a thrill out of hurting people and carrying around lethal munitions.

Of course this all ignores the possibility of a third party like Nebula framing Taylor for her own good.

 

[The Unicorn]

Considering that vigilantes are allowed to take loot from criminals

Click to shrink...

Are they? Or is that simply something cops turn a blind eye to as long as you don't overdo it?
And even if it's permitted, what are the conditions and restriction on the permission? Do you need to pay taxes on that? etc...

Plus I imagine brutality charges for vigilantes only really apply if they cause permanent injury, keep attacking after the person goes unconscious or surrenders, or actually kill the person.

Click to shrink...

That's your opinion, but I find that highly unlikely. Rather I assume there's no such thing as brutality charges because they don't have the ability to arrest anyone - they can get charged with assault like any other citizen, but that depends on the prosecutor deciding it's in the public interest to do so - i.e that's only a risk if you don't have a good relationship with the cops, and go overboard in subduing someone, or mistook what was going on and attacked someone who wasn't committing a crime.

It is unrealistic considering the setting that Taylor could get in trouble for beating up some gangers,

Click to shrink...

I disagree. There are many ways the author could have it plausible if they want to.

 

[ConsiderableHat]

I have to say I find it a lot more plausible that there is prosecutorial discretion for vigilantes who colour inside the lines and a look-the-other-way approach to asset forfeiture, rather than a specific novel rule of law permitting self-issued letters of marque for capes with prize-of-war rules into the bargain.

One of these things requires a lot less work for politicians and lobbyists and can have the benefit arbitrarily withdrawn when it is expedient to do so.

Like, say, to press-gang a problem teenage cape.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Like, say, to press-gang a problem teenage cape.

Click to shrink...

Except this is playing legal chicken with a teenage cape. An author I follow on Spacebattles liked to say teens are already predisoposed to go from zero to "Sampson in the Temple" in very short order.

Now throw in Taylor, who started this chicken match by tearing off her steering wheel and throwing it out the window in full view of the PRT. Now will the PRT dodge, because Taylor can't. Or hold the course and see if anyone can survive the firery crash?

 

[ConsiderableHat]

Oh, absolutely it's playing chicken. Boxing a crook always is, which is why it simply isn't done outside fiction, beyond carefully-managed community service where the offences are minor enough to merit non-custodial sentencing.

Even the old-timey thing of letting young offenders avoid jail by enlisting went away at the behest of the military themselves, who didn't want the ballache of trying to reform an offender along with the expense of training a useful soldier/sailor. It's rather telling that the only 'military' still taking criminals as recruits is the PMC bits of Russia's military: even the French Foreign Legion is checking criminal records these days.

The Doylist explanation of the likes of Sophia Hess is Wildbow not understanding how this sort of thing works, of course. In fanfic we can have a lot more fun with Watsonian explanations.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Oh, absolutely it's playing chicken. Boxing a crook always is, which is why it simply isn't done outside fiction, beyond carefully-managed community service where the offences are minor enough to merit non-custodial sentencing.

Even the old-timey thing of letting young offenders avoid jail by enlisting went away at the behest of the military themselves, who didn't want the ballache of trying to reform an offender along with the expense of training a useful soldier/sailor. It's rather telling that the only 'military' still taking criminals as recruits is the PMC bits of Russia's military: even the French Foreign Legion is checking criminal records these days.

The Doylist explanation of the likes of Sophia Hess is Wildbow not understanding how this sort of thing works, of course. In fanfic we can have a lot more fun with Watsonian explanations.

Click to shrink...

To quote Ender's Game "For Officers we need volunteers." Gauss and Armstrong forgot that. Or despite deciding Danny was depressed enough to not being able to handle Taylor, would somehow be able to influence her. Now they get to deal with all the lovely fallout of a conscript that doesn't want to be there.

For Sophia? I blame her presence, at least initially, on Alan Barnes bullshitting enough. Basically making it sound like Sophia had good heroic intentions, just poor judgement of risk. IOW a typical teenager. Thus a diversion into the Wards was expected to channel that heroic drive responsibly and effectively.

One thing to remember about bullies is that they tend to be socially adroit, at least more so than their preferred victims. Enough so that they can fake being more believable than the victim when it comes down to conflicting testimony.

 

[SlickRCBD]

To quote Ender's Game "For Officers we need volunteers." Gauss and Armstrong forgot that. Or despite deciding Danny was depressed enough to not being able to handle Taylor, would somehow be able to influence her. Now they get to deal with all the lovely fallout of a conscript that doesn't want to be there.

For Sophia? I blame her presence, at least initially, on Alan Barnes bullshitting enough. Basically making it sound like Sophia had good heroic intentions, just poor judgement of risk. IOW a typical teenager. Thus a diversion into the Wards was expected to channel that heroic drive responsibly and effectively.

One thing to remember about bullies is that they tend to be socially adroit, at least more so than their preferred victims. Enough so that they can fake being more believable than the victim when it comes down to conflicting testimony.

Click to shrink...

I don't know how exactly this went down in "Just a Phase". However, in canon I actually believe that allowing Sophia into the Wards was probably the right call based on what the PRT and the court knew at the time.
The fact that the daughter of Sophia's character witness was friends with and in cahoots with her to torment an innocent girl is something that would have been admissible to the court even if they hadn't done anything that could be prosecuted yet, or worth prosecuting (the minor assaults that would normally be handled by the school, or petty theft/destruction of property that again would normally be handled by the school such as destroying/stealing homework. Only the flute was really prosecutable and I don't recall if that happened before or after Sophia's trial). If that fact had been known, they probably would have sent Sophia to jail in the hopes of rehabilitating her, but because that was not known the court made the right decision because it looked like a YOUNG vigilante trying to help fight crime that just went a bit too far. The Wards program was designed to teach them the right way to go about doing just that. She didn't need rehabilitation but training in moderation, excessive force, the law, and procedures as far as the court knew. Again, this is what the Wards program was designed for on paper. The PRT probably checked with Winslow and found a clean record, so I'm blaming the school more than the PRT here as well.

I explained it in more depth here, though you might want to read all the posts between #1 & #2.
Sophia second Chance #1 My Glorious Slush Pile (With Worm snippets!) | Page 295 | SpaceBattles
Sophia second Chance #2 My Glorious Slush Pile (With Worm snippets!) | Page 295 | SpaceBattles

 

[KingCrimson1081]

YOUNG vigilante trying to help fight crime that just went a bit too far.

Click to shrink...

Not really Sophia was arrested after she crucified a man, and you can't really do that by accident. So no she was kinda of an obvious sociopath from the start it is just that Emma and her father gave a very good character witnesses for her. Which in this story was probably even better for her since her character witness was a Ward so Sophia might have gotten a better deap then she did in canon.

But now that it is revealed that her character witness was actively working with her to abuse someone and cover up her wrong doings, I have to wonder if the Youth Guard can force a revisit to the original charges Sophia was brought in under.

The PRT probably checked with Winslow and found a clean record, so I'm blaming the school more than the PRT here as well.

Click to shrink...

Also because Taylor never actually reported the bullying in canon even though it often happened in front of witnesses so yeah the school really screwed things up royally here. Hell as I stated above it was probably worse then in canon since Emma had been a Ward from the start and Winslow would have reason to appease her beyond the regular her dad is a lawyer bit.