Madoka fights the Illuminati (PMMM) [DEAD]

[Reinhard Von Lohengramm]

2 - Tell parents
2 - Your right alone
1 - Seize power

In other news, I'm going to start the first of the local area random event rolls. Since they are not side story rolls, expect deus and diabolus ex machinas. The lower the score, the less good the random event for that organisation, the higher it is, the more it benefits. Random event rolls are mostly irrelevant to the long-term plot, because most of these organisations have very weak ties to the greater picture, although be on the lookout. Some of them are harmless, while others are quite dangerous. There tends to be a correlation between their scope and danger levels.

1. Mitakihara Communist Party - 6
2. Islamic State of Mitakihara - 20
3. Mitakihara Uyoku Dantai - 17
4. Mitakihara Chamber of Commerce - 4
5. Cult of Salvation - 3
6. United Nations - 17
7. Humanity Plus, Mitakihara - 13
8. Shizuki Syndicate - 6
9. Mitakihara Triads - 10
10. Catholic Church in Mitakihara - 5
11. Mitakihara Professionals' Union - 5
12. Main Street Bosozoku - 16
13. Slime and Scum Bosozoku - 15
14. Shirome Otaku Club - 17
15. League of Galactic Heroes - 7

Also, added Bundeswehr Marine officers, Mecklinger, Bittenfeld, Lutz, von Eisenach, Fahrenheit, Kempf, Kesler, Wahlen and Mueller.
The name "Kaname" is the key.
[dice]4380[/dice]

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Oh hai Lord Steel.
[X] "Nobody else needed to know what you were up to. Knowing about Mr Kyubey is your right alone."

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

How long did it take for my old players to realize who Lord Steel was?

---

Secrecy is of prime importance right now. Secrecy protects. Secrecy guards against those terrible forces at work, that you have not fully comprehended yet. A vast shadow looms over Nagisa's, Kyouko's and your head and you do not know what will be their next move. There was an attempt on Mrs Momoe's life, or rather, multiple attempts. Bank guards, armed with assault rifles, for no good reason opened fire on Kyouko. It was a vast and ubiquitous strangeness and you could not help but to feel that that strangeness needed knowledge to act. Without information to act, it would lose power dramatically. In that regard, secrecy is of prime importance. Secrecy is your friend. To oppose whoever was working in the shadows, you needed to embrace them.

On first thought, it seems a little bit hypocritical. To confront those in the shadows, you yourself must enter the shadows yourself. However, while poisoning dying mothers and shooting at homeless teenage girls using the cover of darkness and ignorance were somewhat... evil, using those same shadows to guard and protect, it was a different matter altogether. In that sense, any hypocrisy is superficial rather than true.

Indeed, you yourself knew much about the shadows. You used it to gather knowledge and appropriate resources and only then to gather more knowledge.

In contrast, The Conspiracy at work used the shadows to kill, cause pain and terrorise. If it is only to protect yourself and others, why do you not have the right to use equal or lesser means to guard those around you? Letting The Conspiracy hurt others and you without taking some measures to protect yourself would just be silly glorification of victimhood. Besides, secrecy on your part hurts nobody. It only protects those dear to you and yourself.

"Nobody else needed to know what you were up to. Knowing about Mr Kyubey is your right alone."

"Nee-chan?"

"There is something going on. Something really bad. You need to make sure you talk about strange things as little possible. People are out to k-... hurt your mother. What if they hear of Mr Kyubey from her?"

Careless talk costs lives.

"But mama said that I should tell her about what is happening..."

"Your mother isn't well right now. She wants to know as much for as long as possible. But it's dangerous to let her know more than she needs to."

"She doesn't need to know about Mr Kyubey?"

You shake your head.

[] Go back to Mrs Momoe with the Odin pills.

---

AMMUNITION:

• 34:120 5.56 NATO
• Zero incendiary 40mm grenades

---

April Friday the 1st, 5:30 pm

Anime timeline comparison:

• 26th March Mami vs Gertrud
• 4th April Mami vs Charlotte

30 days remaining until ???

 

[Adyen]

[X] "If you have anything you want to talk about, whether it's about Mr. Kyubey or anything else, remember you can always talk to me. I will try to help you out as much as possible. I promise." Give her your phone number (and some change in case she needs to use a public phone)
-[X] Go back to Mrs Momoe with the Odin pills.

 

[Dark Ness]

It's been canonically proven that the Incubators did NOT do that for Walpurgisnacht - a Witch which by mere presence is able to destroy an entire town. Why would you assume that the Incubators would do so for a Witch any stronger?

Click to shrink...

Because Walpurgisnacht could not destroy the world, and thus mess with the cycle.

For all we know, the Incubator's could have been planning to send the top MGs to kill it after it destroyed the town, and increased its greif to provide more energy.


Here is the thing. If the Incubator's can't kill a Witch, then they can't harvest the energy. If they can't harvest the energy, they just lost out. If they have to abandon the world, they not only have to abandon all the work they have done and start over, they also have to abondon all the Witches that made, thus giving up a huge amount of energy. With this is mind, why would the Incubator's ever let a Witch grow powerful enough to destroy the world?

 

[Adyen]

Because Walpurgisnacht could not destroy the world, and thus mess with the cycle.

For all we know, the Incubator's could have been planning to send the top MGs to kill it after it destroyed the town, and increased its greif to provide more energy.


Here is the thing. If the Incubator's can't kill a Witch, then they can't harvest the energy. If they can't harvest the energy, they just lost out. If they have to abandon the world, they not only have to abandon all the work they have done and start over, they also have to abondon all the Witches that made, thus giving up a huge amount of energy. With this is mind, why would the Incubator's ever let a Witch grow powerful enough to destroy the world?

Click to shrink...

Actually, as far as I could remember, the Incubators actually gather the energy the moment a MG becomes a Witch (both from the anime and Rebellion, the part where QB mentioned how they experimented with the 'witching out' effect and how much more energy it created). Not the 'dead' form of a Witch (grief seeds).

And by your logic, Walpurgisnacht should have been destroyed because it IS a Witch that could destroy the world.

Think about it. It travels in an unknown path, but all cities it approaches (regardless of the size) gets destroyed. What would happen if it takes a direct path across Japan's major cities? It can destroy over 100 cities at the speed of 1 city per night, minus travel time.

People and infrastructure do not recover so fast as to replace all the dead and destroyed cities. If Walpurgisnacht literally only stayed in the Japanese islands, Japan (as a nation) would have disappeared within a year. A small country can be destroyed by Walpurgisnacht alone if it only had like 10 cities. Heck, if it was in the UK, the whole country would be destroyed within the same span of time.

Now, you tell me whether Walpurgisnacht can or cannot destroy the world, and based on your own logic whether the Incubators would have destroyed Walpurgisnacht or sent MG after it.

 

[Skelm]

[X] "If you have anything you want to talk about, whether it's about Mr. Kyubey or anything else, remember you can always talk to me. I will try to help you out as much as possible. I promise." Give her your phone number (and some change in case she needs to use a public phone)
-[X] Go back to Mrs Momoe with the Odin pills.

 

[Reinhard Von Lohengramm]

With this is mind, why would the Incubator's ever let a Witch grow powerful enough to destroy the world?

Click to shrink...

When Madoka transformed, that was really amazing, wasn't it?
I never had any doubt she'd become the most powerful magical girl in the world.
But I never dreamed she'd take down Walpurgisnacht with one shot.

"Did you know what would happen... afterwards?"

Her fate was bound to happen sooner or later.
She was the strongest of all magical girls, and she destroyed her greatest enemy.
It's only natural she'd turn into the wickedest witch of them all.
And in her current state, I'm estimating it'll take her no more than ten days to destroy the planet.
Oh, well, it's humanity's problem now.
We pretty much filled our quota and have more than enough energy.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

 

[Adyen]

You spoil all my fun. I was going to drag this out a bit more, like when he asks me to quote the stuff I mentioned in regards to canon and the movie.

 

[Reinhard Von Lohengramm]

[X] "If you have anything you want to talk about, whether it's about Mr. Kyubey or anything else, remember you can always talk to me. I will try to help you out as much as possible. I promise." Give her your phone number (and some change in case she needs to use a public phone)
-[X] Go back to Mrs Momoe with the Odin pills.

Click to shrink...

[X] "If you have anything you want to talk about, whether it's about Mr. Kyubey or anything else, remember you can always talk to me. I will try to help you out as much as possible. I promise." Give her your phone number (and some change in case she needs to use a public phone)
-[X] Go back to Mrs Momoe with the Odin pills.

Click to shrink...

---

"She doesn't. No-one else needs to."

Nagisa broods silently on your position. Indeed, it seems more deep than a usual ten-year-old is capable of.

"However, if you have anything you want to talk about, whether it's about Mr. Kyubey or anything else, remember you can always talk to me. I will try to help you out as much as possible. I promise." You get out Stahl.

You never actually had a phone number before.

Stahl automatically generates a VoIP phone number. You find a piece of paper and write it down and give it to Nagisa.

Nagisa takes it.

"Come on, let's get back to your mother."

---

You sneak back into Mrs Momoe's room. You show her the pills and she nods at it.

"They're the ones... Find some lab. Test them and you'll find the truth. Ahh!" Mrs Momoe begins to wince in pain.

"Mrs Momoe?"

"Mama?"

"They've begin to grow more frequent. The pain. At this rate, I'm not going to make it... So I have a favour to ask..."

"Yes, Mrs Momoe?" You ask with anxiety.

"They're going to come and kill me anyway. And even if you stop them every day, the spiked Odin has already done its work...so can I ask you a favour?"

You wait for Mrs Momoe to finish her question.

"One of you...Help me put my life into my own hands... don't give them the joy of killing me... and pull out the life support!"

[] Ask Mrs Momoe for confirmation three times and then pull out the life support. Letting her die on her own terms is the greatest act of defiance of those forces in the shadows.
-[] Do the same, except share some parts of pulling out life support with Nagisa. That way, she remembers that the both of you granted Mrs Momoe's last desire together.
[] Persuade Nagisa to do it, as a final act of filial piety to end Mrs Momoe's pain.
[] Refuse. Life is important, regardless of the amount of suffering there is.
[] Refuse and persuade Nagisa to not do it outside of the room. Mrs Momoe is not going to die.

---

AMMUNITION:

• 34:120 5.56 NATO
• Zero incendiary 40mm grenades

---

April Friday the 1st, 6:00 pm

Anime timeline comparison:

• 26th March Mami vs Gertrud
• 4th April Mami vs Charlotte

30 days remaining until ???

 

[Adyen]

[X] Refuse
-[X] "Even if you are going to die, fight till the last breath. Don't give in to their wishes and let them know that they beat your spirit."
-[X] Quietly, "Let Nagisa see the strong soul within you even if your body can no longer hold together! Don't let her last memory of you be someone who has nothing left to live for."

 

[Reinhard Von Lohengramm]

[X] Refuse
-[X] "Even if you are going to die, fight till the last breath. Don't give in to their wishes and let them know that they beat your spirit."
-[X] Quietly, "Let Nagisa see the strong soul within you even if your body can no longer hold together! Don't let her last memory of you be someone who has nothing left to live for."

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

 

[Skelm]

[X] Refuse
-[X] "Even if you are going to die, fight till the last breath. Don't give in to their wishes and let them know that they beat your spirit."
-[X] Quietly, "Let Nagisa see the strong soul within you even if your body can no longer hold together! Don't let her last memory of you be someone who has nothing left to live for."

 

[Reinhard Von Lohengramm]

[X] Refuse
-[X] "Even if you are going to die, fight till the last breath. Don't give in to their wishes and let them know that they beat your spirit."
-[X] Quietly, "Let Nagisa see the strong soul within you even if your body can no longer hold together! Don't let her last memory of you be someone who has nothing left to live for."

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

 

[Dark Ness]

You spoil all my fun. I was going to drag this out a bit more, like when he asks me to quote the stuff I mentioned in regards to canon and the movie.

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I can still drag it out, so that is what you seem to prefer. While I admit you are correct on them getting power once a Witch is created, I still think your argument is wrong. Yes, they get the base power, but not the increased one. For example, let's say that a weak MG becomes a weak Witch. But, this witch becomes strong enough to destroy over the world. Now, the Incubator's are gaining none of the increased energy, only the base energy.

In the case of Madoka, it didn't matter because her base magical energy is so great that they didn't need humans anymore.

Actually, as far as I could remember, the Incubators actually gather the energy the moment a MG becomes a Witch (both from the anime and Rebellion, the part where QB mentioned how they experimented with the 'witching out' effect and how much more energy it created). Not the 'dead' form of a Witch (grief seeds).

And by your logic, Walpurgisnacht should have been destroyed because it IS a Witch that could destroy the world.

Think about it. It travels in an unknown path, but all cities it approaches (regardless of the size) gets destroyed. What would happen if it takes a direct path across Japan's major cities? It can destroy over 100 cities at the speed of 1 city per night, minus travel time.

People and infrastructure do not recover so fast as to replace all the dead and destroyed cities. If Walpurgisnacht literally only stayed in the Japanese islands, Japan (as a nation) would have disappeared within a year. A small country can be destroyed by Walpurgisnacht alone if it only had like 10 cities. Heck, if it was in the UK, the whole country would be destroyed within the same span of time.

Now, you tell me whether Walpurgisnacht can or cannot destroy the world, and based on your own logic whether the Incubators would have destroyed Walpurgisnacht or sent MG after it.

Click to shrink...

Walpurgisnacht can destroy the world, if it continues unchecked, certainly not immediately. But it doesn't continue unchecked. Look at the very first loop. Madoka kills Walpurgisnacht. Presumably, another MG would pickup the grief seed later, thus allowing the Incubator's to gain the energy. Your scenario is assuming that no MG's go after the Witch destroying Japan for a whole year. Even if Madoka and the other MG's in the city fail, there is still all the other MGs in all of Japan. You don't think that the Incubator's won't be encourging then to fight the Witch and gain the massive grief seed? On top of their own desires to not see their homes destroyed.

Now, even if you are correct that grief seeds give no energy (but why would the Incubator's eat them if they don't?), there is still the motivation for the cycle to not be destroyed. You still have not answered the basic point of my argument, why would the Incubator's let something destroy the cycle, if they weren't gaining enough energy to make up for it?

 

[QuantumWings]

Waluigi Night is unlikely to destroy more than a city due to the large amount of potential contractees for the QB to exploit.

That being said WN and KG are nowhere close to the same level of power and destruction.
WN is only threatening to a city and can be wiped out by a magical girl team, remember preloop Mami and Madoka managed to beat her.
KG on the other hand gg no re, decide what to do with the last 10 days on earth well.

 

[Adyen]

I can still drag it out, so that is what you seem to prefer. While I admit you are correct on them getting power once a Witch is created, I still think your argument is wrong. Yes, they get the base power, but not the increased one. For example, let's say that a weak MG becomes a weak Witch. But, this witch becomes strong enough to destroy over the world. Now, the Incubator's are gaining none of the increased energy, only the base energy.

In the case of Madoka, it didn't matter because her base magical energy is so great that they didn't need humans anymore.

Walpurgisnacht can destroy the world, if it continues unchecked, certainly not immediately. But it doesn't continue unchecked. Look at the very first loop. Madoka kills Walpurgisnacht. Presumably, another MG would pickup the grief seed later, thus allowing the Incubator's to gain the energy. Your scenario is assuming that no MG's go after the Witch destroying Japan for a whole year. Even if Madoka and the other MG's in the city fail, there is still all the other MGs in all of Japan. You don't think that the Incubator's won't be encourging then to fight the Witch and gain the massive grief seed? On top of their own desires to not see their homes destroyed.

Now, even if you are correct that grief seeds give no energy (but why would the Incubator's eat them if they don't?), there is still the motivation for the cycle to not be destroyed. You still have not answered the basic point of my argument, why would the Incubator's let something destroy the cycle, if they weren't gaining enough energy to make up for it?

Click to shrink...

The Incubators eat them probably because a) it no longer serves any purpose for the MG (since it's full) and b) they may still have any kind of use for it.

And you're on the assumption that letting Earth be destroyed destroys the cycle. For all we know, they already have moved some Humans off-planet or there's other life-forms out there that they're farming. Your "why would the Incubator's let something destroy the cycle, if they weren't gaining enough energy to make up for it" argument is based on the idea that they don't have other farms, which the above quote implies as fake.

Also, on the note of the first loop... if you looked carefully at the flashback, you'd notice that it is the loop with the highest active MG at the same time - which means it takes a minimum of 5 MG suiciding on it to kill it. Now, you can say that QB can direct MGs to deal with it... but who's going to actually do that? For one, why would MGs leave their cities to go defend another one against a Witch that can very likely kill you? Secondly, there's no reward that QB can give, since they don't give out Grief Seeds or anything to MGs (tho I suspect they could probably give other sorts of things, but as motivation for MGs who might actually die or Witch out during the fight it's piss poor).

It's pretty fair to say that the Incubators want MGs to fight Witches because it is through the usage of a MG's magic that they become Witches. Thus having a Witch that is strong enough to control a lot of MGs will force more of them to turn into a Witch. Heck, if a bunch of weak willed MGs hear that WN is coming to their city, they may just turn into Witches just from the despair of knowing that.

 

[Dark Ness]

And you're on the assumption that letting Earth be destroyed destroys the cycle. For all we know, they already have moved some Humans off-planet or there's other life-forms out there that they're farming. Your "why would the Incubator's let something destroy the cycle, if they weren't gaining enough energy to make up for it" argument is based on the idea that they don't have other farms, which the above quote implies as fake.

Click to shrink...

That doesn't change my point. Even if they still have other farms, why let one be destroyed? It isn't based on whether they have other places at all. By cycle, I mean the cycle in Earth.

Also, on the note of the first loop... if you looked carefully at the flashback, you'd notice that it is the loop with the highest active MG at the same time - which means it takes a minimum of 5 MG suiciding on it to kill it. Now, you can say that QB can direct MGs to deal with it... but who's going to actually do that? For one, why would MGs leave their cities to go defend another one against a Witch that can very likely kill you? Secondly, there's no reward that QB can give, since they don't give out Grief Seeds or anything to MGs (tho I suspect they could probably give other sorts of things, but as motivation for MGs who might actually die or Witch out during the fight it's piss poor).

Click to shrink...

First, Kyoko wasn't around first loop, nor did Sayaka contract. It was just Mami, Homura, and Madoka. And Homura didn't even die. It was only one MG suiciding, Mami, while Madoka just used enough magic to wish, combined with the despair of the city being destroyed and everyone dieing. There is no five MG's minimum, where are getting that from? And in the first timeline, it was just Mami and Madoka.

Secondly, if it was rampaging across Japan like I'm your scenario, then they would attack it in order to kill it before it reachs their city. And the reward is the grief seed it drops.

It's pretty fair to say that the Incubators want MGs to fight Witches because it is through the usage of a MG's magic that they become Witches. Thus having a Witch that is strong enough to control a lot of MGs will force more of them to turn into a Witch. Heck, if a bunch of weak willed MGs hear that WN is coming to their city, they may just turn into Witches just from the despair of knowing that.

Click to shrink...

If the amount of energy that gives them greater then the long term amount they will get from the Earth in the future, why haven't they done it before? Think of it like this. They can gain 10,000 emotional energy right now, or gain 100 a year and continue for several hundred years. The Incubator's chouse the second option, because they think exceedingly long term, remember, they have been around since cavemen times. They have the system down pat, they aren't going to just do away with it without a really good reason.


You seem to assuming the Incubator's are either stupid, or prefer short term gain, both of which are false.

It's pretty fair to say that the Incubators want MGs to fight Witches because it is through the usage of a MG's magic that they become Witches. Thus having a Witch that is strong enough to control a lot of MGs will force more of them to turn into a Witch. Heck, if a bunch of weak willed MGs hear that WN is coming to their city, they may just turn into Witches just from the despair of knowing that.

Click to shrink...

So? And if the world ends, they can't create more MGs to harvest their energy and then witch out, and then cause other MGs to fight said witches, and they themselves witching out, and so on. It is a cycle, and it only works because it continues.

 

[Adyen]

That doesn't change my point. Even if they still have other farms, why let one be destroyed? It isn't based on whether they have other places at all. By cycle, I mean the cycle in Earth.


First, Kyoko wasn't around first loop, nor did Sayaka contract. It was just Mami, Homura, and Madoka. And Homura didn't even die. It was only one MG suiciding, Mami, while Madoka just used enough magic to wish, combined with the despair of the city being destroyed and everyone dieing. There is no five MG's minimum, where are getting that from? And in the first timeline, it was just Mami and Madoka.

Click to shrink...

I'm actually 99% sure that at least Sayaka contracted for that loop, since I did see her in that flashback. Though I am working on the assumption that Kyoko is there due to Sayaka being there.

Secondly, if it was rampaging across Japan like I'm your scenario, then they would attack it in order to kill it before it reachs their city. And the reward is the grief seed it drops.

Click to shrink...

ONE grief seed. For however many MGs required to defeat it.

If the amount of energy that gives them greater then the long term amount they will get from the Earth in the future, why haven't they done it before? Think of it like this. They can gain 10,000 emotional energy right now, or gain 100 a year and continue for several hundred years. The Incubator's chouse the second option, because they think exceedingly long term, remember, they have been around since cavemen times. They have the system down pat, they aren't going to just do away with it without a really good reason.

Click to shrink...

We can also see from the quote before that they are out to make a quota - which means they have a way to farm more (quota would only be used if they're meeting a certain goal multiple times). So it means that even if Earth is destroyed, they can farm more somewhere else.

You seem to assuming the Incubator's are either stupid, or prefer short term gain, both of which are false.

So? And if the world ends, they can't create more MGs to harvest their energy and then witch out, and then cause other MGs to fight said witches, and they themselves witching out, and so on. It is a cycle, and it only works because it continues.

Click to shrink...

Or, as mentioned, they're just using people like unrenewable resources (much like how we use oil), and thus does not matter.

You're still working on the idea that Earth is the only place they're farming, and thus is vitally important to the Incubators. Unless you're willing to even consider that there are multiple farms, there's really no point in continuing the argument.

 

[Dark Ness]

I'm actually 99% sure that at least Sayaka contracted for that loop, since I did see her in that flashback. Though I am working on the assumption that Kyoko is there due to Sayaka being there.

Click to shrink...

That was the second loop, or third timeline, not the first. And Sayaka has nothing to do with Kyoko, Kyoko doesn't even know her. Kyoko comes around due to Mami's death, not Sayaka contracting.

ONE grief seed. For however many MGs required to defeat it.

Click to shrink...

And how many charges will that seed havr? Once Wal-Mart is defeated, they can fight over it, it doesn't really matter. The greedy ones are drawn by the prospect of gaining the biggest grief seed, and the moral ones by saving the country.

We can also see from the quote before that they are out to make a quota - which means they have a way to farm more (quota would only be used if they're meeting a certain goal multiple times). So it means that even if Earth is destroyed, they can farm more somewhere else.

Click to shrink...

Or, as mentioned, they're just using people like unrenewable resources (much like how we use oil), and thus does not matter.

You're still working on the idea that Earth is the only place they're farming, and thus is vitally important to the Incubators. Unless you're willing to even consider that there are multiple farms, there's really no point in continuing the argument.

Click to shrink...

I am not. I believe they do have multiple farms. I address this here.

Even if they still have other farms, why let one be destroyed? It isn't based on whether they have other places at all. By cycle, I mean the cycle in Earth.

Click to shrink...

Let me make a comparison. Let's say you are a business owner. You own 5 apartment complexes each in a different country. Are you just going to let one be destroyed with being compensated? No. Is the busines going to the other aparments going to increase when the one is destroyed? No.


You don't seem to get the fact that it doesn't matter that they have multiple farms, because even if they have a thousand farms, there is no point in letting one be destroyed. Because the other farms aren't going to increase because one is destroyed. Let's say they have 100 hundred farms, and Earth .Each farm provides 100 energy, as well as Earth. Earth is destroyed. Each farms still produces a 100 energy, not a 101. The Incubator's still lose 100 energy. Why is this so hard to understand?

Or, as mentioned, they're just using people like unrenewable resources (much like how we use oil), and thus does not matter.

Click to shrink...

This is 100% false. Humans are a renewable resource, like trees. We breed, and produce more humans. The Incubator's have been harvesting us for over a millennium. They have always treated humans as a renewable resource, because we are. The Incubator's even compare us to cows, which are, again, a renewable resource.


Why are you unwilling to consider that the Incubator's are motivated by long term gain, as they have been for thousands of years?

 

[Adyen]

And how many charges will that seed havr? Once Wal-Mart is defeated, they can fight over it, it doesn't really matter. The greedy ones are drawn by the prospect of gaining the biggest grief seed, and the moral ones by saving the country.

Click to shrink...

This is a bit questionable since if there is multiple use of that seed, Madoka would probably not have had to die on that loop (as she used it to remove the grief in Homura's seed as opposed to her own), but I'll give you that since this is might not be a known fact.

Or, it could be that all Grief Seeds can only be used to fully recover 1 MG who is at near limit (ie there's a storage capacity - like, 100 unit of grief would Witch-out a MG, and it can store 100 units). But this really can't be used in any argument either way.

I am not. I believe they do have multiple farms. I address this here.

Let me make a comparison. Let's say you are a business owner. You own 5 apartment complexes each in a different country. Are you just going to let one be destroyed with being compensated? No. Is the busines going to the other aparments going to increase when the one is destroyed? No.

You don't seem to get the fact that it doesn't matter that they have multiple farms, because even if they have a thousand farms, there is no point in letting one be destroyed. Because the other farms aren't going to increase because one is destroyed. Let's say they have 100 hundred farms, and Earth .Each farm provides 100 energy, as well as Earth. Earth is destroyed. Each farms still produces a 100 energy, not a 101. The Incubator's still lose 100 energy. Why is this so hard to understand?

Click to shrink...

Actually, if the cost of an apartment's land tax reaches a certain amount, I'd sell it to get rid of it because it cuts into my bottom line of what rent I could gain. Or if there's turmoil I would get rid of it instead of holding on to a risky property.

For example, if I owned an apartment in a politically unstable place, I would sell it for the lowest price just to make sure I earned something. The cost and potential cost of continuing to own that apartment is just too much that it out-weights any potential income I could make from it.

Your potential income is based on a 0% instability and a 100% income curve, which just doesn't happen.

And as mentioned, the Incubators work on a quota system - this means they only need to meet this quota for a X period of time. For all we know, this means that they will reorganize how they collect energy after the period - which means even if they have 100 farms(planets), if they lose 1 it won't impact their bottom line (for this period). YOUR assumption is that they are greedy and want more energy than needed (their quota), but we all know that the Incubators are pretty much incapable of emotions such as greed. So meeting their quota is literally all they care about, which renders the whole "potential future energy" moot.

This is 100% false. Humans are a renewable resource, like trees. We breed, and produce more humans. The Incubator's have been harvesting us for over a millennium. They have always treated humans as a renewable resource, because we are. The Incubator's even compare us to cows, which are, again, a renewable resource.

Why are you unwilling to consider that the Incubator's are motivated by long term gain, as they have been for thousands of years?

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Because they've shown that they've met some kind of goal in long term gains? That perhaps they already found a way to prevent the heat-death of the universe with all the energy they've harvested throughout the time they've been on Earth? Maybe they already have more humans on other planet, which would allow them to farm them without the potential loss of energy such as Witches destroying the planet, so they don't care anymore?

Your idea is a purely based on the idea that the Incubators find 'saving' Humanity is worth the energy expenditure. It's like saying, it's worth spending 1000 units of energy to save the world from World-ending Witches, while you gain 100 per year. Yes, in the long term if you look at it from a purely mathematical point of view it is worth it, but what if 2 years later you find another Witch that requires another 1000 units of energy? Now you're down 1800, and need another 18 years to recover that energy.

The more efficient method would be to give up that planet and drain whatever is leftover from it, then start a new one that is already producing 100 units of energy. This one won't have the requirement of paying 1000 units of energy for another millennium or however long it took to create WN.

 

[Dark Ness]

This is a bit questionable since if there is multiple use of that seed, Madoka would probably not have had to die on that loop (as she used it to remove the grief in Homura's seed as opposed to her own), but I'll give you that since this is might not be a known fact.

Or, it could be that all Grief Seeds can only be used to fully recover 1 MG who is at near limit (ie there's a storage capacity - like, 100 unit of grief would Witch-out a MG, and it can store 100 units). But this really can't be used in any argument either way.



Actually, if the cost of an apartment's land tax reaches a certain amount, I'd sell it to get rid of it because it cuts into my bottom line of what rent I could gain. Or if there's turmoil I would get rid of it instead of holding on to a risky property.

For example, if I owned an apartment in a politically unstable place, I would sell it for the lowest price just to make sure I earned something. The cost and potential cost of continuing to own that apartment is just too much that it out-weights any potential income I could make from it.

Your potential income is based on a 0% instability and a 100% income curve, which just doesn't happen.

And as mentioned, the Incubators work on a quota system - this means they only need to meet this quota for a X period of time. For all we know, this means that they will reorganize how they collect energy after the period - which means even if they have 100 farms(planets), if they lose 1 it won't impact their bottom line (for this period). YOUR assumption is that they are greedy and want more energy than needed (their quota), but we all know that the Incubators are pretty much incapable of emotions such as greed. So meeting their quota is literally all they care about, which renders the whole "potential future energy" moot.



Because they've shown that they've met some kind of goal in long term gains? That perhaps they already found a way to prevent the heat-death of the universe with all the energy they've harvested throughout the time they've been on Earth? Maybe they already have more humans on other planet, which would allow them to farm them without the potential loss of energy such as Witches destroying the planet, so they don't care anymore?

Your idea is a purely based on the idea that the Incubators find 'saving' Humanity is worth the energy expenditure. It's like saying, it's worth spending 1000 units of energy to save the world from World-ending Witches, while you gain 100 per year. Yes, in the long term if you look at it from a purely mathematical point of view it is worth it, but what if 2 years later you find another Witch that requires another 1000 units of energy? Now you're down 1800, and need another 18 years to recover that energy.

The more efficient method would be to give up that planet and drain whatever is leftover from it, then start a new one that is already producing 100 units of energy. This one won't have the requirement of paying 1000 units of energy for another millennium or however long it took to create WN.

Click to shrink...

Except it doesn't cost any energy. Telling MGs to hunt a Witch costs zero. They aren't paying any upkeep.

And there quota is however much energy it takes to reduce entropy. Notice, it took a bunch of entire universes to reach the point where Madoka's wish meet the quat

The more efficient method would be to give up that planet and drain whatever is leftover from it, then start a new one that is already producing 100 units of energy. This one won't have the requirement of paying 1000 units of energy for another millennium or however long it took to create WN.

Click to shrink...

Who says there are any planets left to start? If there are planets available for imediate farming, why would the Incubator's not already seeded them?

 

[Adyen]

Except it doesn't cost any energy. Telling MGs to hunt a Witch costs zero. They aren't paying any upkeep.

Click to shrink...

On the flip side, turning MGs into Witches also don't cost them energy and it gains them energy too. But if they die, they LOSE that investment.

And there quota is however much energy it takes to reduce entropy. Notice, it took a bunch of entire universes to reach the point where Madoka's wish meet the quata

Click to shrink...

Uh... I actually have no idea what you're talking about with this sentence.

Who says there are any planets left to start? If there are planets available for imediate farming, why would the Incubator's not already seeded them?

Click to shrink...

This can't be argued since we're seeing things in canon from a Madoka-centric or Homura-centric view. We wouldn't know if they ARE, and we wouldn't know if they aren't. But we can assume that they are, since they had all the time in the world to have plucked people off Earth and relocate them in some other distant planet. Heck, all those groups of people who were assumed to have been lost in the Bermuda Triangle could have been taken by the Incubators!

Edit: We really should stop this argument since the vote about picking Incubators or Illuminati is past. And we need more votes!

 

[Dark Ness]

[X] Refuse and persuade Nagisa to not do it outside of the room. Mrs Momoe is not going to die.
-[X] There is always a chance, do not give up hope! Who knows, maybe there will be a miracle?

 

[Reinhard Von Lohengramm]

[X] Refuse and persuade Nagisa to not do it outside of the room. Mrs Momoe is not going to die.
-[X] There is always a chance, do not give up hope! Who knows, maybe there will be a miracle?

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

 

[Adyen]

Spoiler

Click to shrink...

What IS that on the bottom right corner of the picture? A plumbing plunger?

 

[Dark Ness]

Spoiler

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Get out of here. You would never encourge Incubator contact, so you aren't even relevant.

Plus, you were both a shitty leader, shifty Communist, and shifty Russian. Lenin was your superior in every way, you inferior piece of authoritarian studity.

 

[Reinhard Von Lohengramm]

[X] Refuse
-[X] "Even if you are going to die, fight till the last breath. Don't give in to their wishes and let them know that they beat your spirit."
-[X] Quietly, "Let Nagisa see the strong soul within you even if your body can no longer hold together! Don't let her last memory of you be someone who has nothing left to live for."

Click to shrink...

[X] Refuse
-[X] "Even if you are going to die, fight till the last breath. Don't give in to their wishes and let them know that they beat your spirit."
-[X] Quietly, "Let Nagisa see the strong soul within you even if your body can no longer hold together! Don't let her last memory of you be someone who has nothing left to live for."

Click to shrink...

[X] Refuse and persuade Nagisa to not do it outside of the room. Mrs Momoe is not going to die.
-[X] There is always a chance, do not give up hope! Who knows, maybe there will be a miracle?

Click to shrink...

Votes locked commencing write-up

 

[Reinhard Von Lohengramm]

Votes locked commencing write-up

Click to shrink...

You refuse to pull out Mrs Momoe's life support. You can understand the logic behind her desire to "take her own life" into her own hands, as she said it. Such a course of action would provide her a chance to express her defiance against those seeking to kill her. If would deny, right in their faces, the arrogant and cruel way in which they acted, as though not only did they had the right, but also power to influence and control every single event in an individual's life from cradle to death.

Those killers were control freaks. They wanted to torture and drag out Mrs Momoe's pain and agony for whatever reason and Mrs Momoe wanted to deny them that joy by having her life end right here and now.

If you were in Mrs Momoe's position, then perhaps you would feel the same. However, life has intrinsic value. One can posit that by denying life, pain can be denied, however, life also brings joy.

"Mrs Momoe, with all due respect to your state, I cannot grant you that request."

Mrs Momoe looks emptily into you, sighing gently as if in disappointment.

"Don't let them know they've beat your spirit."

Mrs Momoe continues to stare into the ceiling, seemingly ignoring your pleas to continue struggling on.

You then approach her and then tell her your honest opinion of the matter:
"It's not about the pain. Do it for Nagisa. It's a selfish request, but please don't let her remember you as someone who gave up."

"Hmm. At least you are honest." Mrs Momoe coughs. "I'll grant you that much. I can't hate you for your opinion. However..."

Mrs Momoe breathes heavily.

"A person ought to know when to cut their losses. The moment I signed up for the Odin trial to improve my office work, I stepped into a deluded fantasy. I should've admitted to myself that I was suited for it right there. But I went on anyway. And then I landed here."

Mrs Momoe continues after reflecting on it a little while.

"When a person starts losing without even a single thing to gain, I think it's time to stop. We seem to be fundamentally different on that. Let's agree, to disagree, okay?"

Mrs Momoe stares at you. Those eyes belong to a human, but it is only because she is in a hospital bed that you can tell this. Without it, you would've merely seen a wasting thrall, slowly withering to death as her offspring brooded silently before her and as the beeps of the instruments around her dragged on that charade of a life she was hanging onto.

"Sorry for troubling you Mrs Momoe." You bowed at her as a last gesture of respect.

"I can't blame you. You not old enough yet."

Just as you are about to make it through the threshold, Nagisa asks you a question.

"Nee-chan, how old are you?"

"14."

"14." Nagisa repeats this as if it holds some sort of significance to her.

And so you make your way out of Mrs Momoe's room, parting each other, with differences that both of you understood.

---

Where do you go now?

[] Kazamino. You need to investigate those bank guards and why they shot at Kyouko.

---

AMMUNITION:

• 34:120 5.56 NATO
• Zero incendiary 40mm grenades

---

April Friday the 1st, 6:30 pm

Anime timeline comparison:

• 26th March Mami vs Gertrud
• 4th April Mami vs Charlotte

30 days remaining until ???

 

[Adyen]

Actually... have we made any plans about Nagisa? Where's she staying right now? And is anyone watching over her?

How about her funeral things and such?

 

[Skelm]

Actually... have we made any plans about Nagisa?

Click to shrink...

Nope, but we can't keep her while we're living in the same house as Junko and anything else we could do probably won't be better than the default. In any case, her not dying side quests have been completed, so it's time to focus on violin boy. We've only got four days to deal with him.

[X] That boy Sayaka keeps talking about is supposed to be in here somewhere, right? Go find him.

 

[Adyen]

Maybe we should figure out those kinds of things soon. I'd hate to find out Nagisa had no home to go back to... And since we stole like a huge amount of money, I'm sure we can put her in some hotel at minimum if it comes to that.

[X] Go home with Nagisa and figure out what she's going to do after her mother passes on.
-[X] Check if Sayaka is free. Maybe you can introduce her to Nagisa? (And explain that she's why you've been so busy?)