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Adjustments needed aside, it fits Oramus.

Okay, I have another idea for one of Oramus' two initial charms, the one relative to how he sees the world: something like the Third Excellency but more like Coil from Worm, where you can predict two possible results of an action and then choose which to keep? The theme here is the Shrodinger's cat, where both states are true until observed.
 
Would like to comment more, but need to sleep. But considering the capstone charm for Obsidian Shards SMA is basically choose 1 outcome out of 5...
 
Would like to comment more, but need to sleep. But considering the capstone charm for Obsidian Shards SMA is basically choose 1 outcome out of 5...
Even the writers admitted later on that they went overboard with those SMA...

That aside, instead of a Third Ex. rip-off how can we change it? Ideas people, ideas or I will have to move the thread to SV.
 
That aside, instead of a Third Ex. rip-off how can we change it?
Something that requires a few motes and a willpower, something something roll twice and keep the better roll? Not sure which tags and limitations to use, but Simple/Combo-Basic, I guess?

Then make it so that higher essence levels basically allows you to turn it into Combo-Ok instead of Simple - probably at E4 or 5.
 
Something that requires a few motes and a willpower, something something roll twice and keep the better roll? Not sure which tags and limitations to use, but Simple/Combo-Basic, I guess?

Then make it so that higher essence levels basically allows you to turn it into Combo-Ok instead of Simple - probably at E4 or 5.
Uhm...Combo-Basic instead of Combo-OK so you cannot use it for everything, and what it adds to static values is the Essence. Furthermore, the action you're rolling for must be resolved within (essence) ticks, to a max of seven. Possible updates extends this time to minutes, hours, that kinda things.

Should we make possible more than two rolls, maybe with a follow up Charm, or it goes against the theme ?
 
Should we make possible more than two rolls, maybe with a follow up Charm, or it goes against the theme ?
I have no idea, but since Oramus is Oramus, I don't think it goes against the theme.

...I wouldn't be surprised if he has a connection with prime numbers, 7, 49, 343, etc, which might perhaps grant a bonus or something.

Also, does Oramus' theme come with Territory Creation and Item Creation? Not so sure, since his themes are vexing to be determined.
 
Something I like to focus on with Oramus is impossibility. It's his strongest theme, being beyond the world, not being part of it, achieving the impossible easily. This is a rough idea, but many Yozis have a "gateway" charm that gives you access to really neat effects at the cost of a penalty. Hateful Wretched Noise gives you penalties for anything over a whisper, Nightmare Fugue Vigilance drops your willpower recovery to a flat 1, Witness to Darkness mucks with your social-fu and so on.

For Oramus, I'm thinking he could use a charm that inverts difficulty rolls. Very thematic, but also very difficult to balance because you could easily smash a massive behemoth to pieces, only to fail miserably at hopping a fence. Perhaps it could be short duration so that you don't screw your character over? Scene-length perhaps?

Or we could use the previous set's focus on magic and lower the difficulty with rolls where your opposition is magical in nature, but raise it against mundane things?
 
For Oramus, I'm thinking he could use a charm that inverts difficulty rolls. Very thematic, but also very difficult to balance because you could easily smash a massive behemoth to pieces, only to fail miserably at hopping a fence. Perhaps it could be short duration so that you don't screw your character over? Scene-length perhaps?
Too hard to balance, stuff that effects dice rolls will always be iffy; another idea for a gateway charm would be one that gives you an air of strangeness or you cause a feeling of disquiet t that puts other people at ill-ease, it gets worse as you grow in Essence, and it can be fairly crippling for your social situation. But perhaps it makes you fascinating so that while it makes it harder for people to like or befirend you, save perhaps those with derangement, it does mean that you're harder to ignore.
 
Manual of Exalted Power: Infernals said:
The Ebon Dragon cheats the Primordial restriction against necromancy, as it is his nature to cheat all limitations (see Ultimate Darkness Internalization on p. 150). Of the rest of the Yozis, only Oramus has joined him in long communion with the Neverborn. If the Dragon Beyond the World added their nightmares to his own, who would know the difference?

As a side note, should Oramus have any Death or necromancy related charms?
 
As a side note, should Oramus have any Death or necromancy related charms?
Probably, yeah, since he is impossibility made manifest. Maybe more on the Emotion influencing aspects, though. Never played a Necromancy focused character in Exalted, so dun ask me.
 
Something I like to focus on with Oramus is impossibility. It's his strongest theme, being beyond the world, not being part of it, achieving the impossible easily. This is a rough idea, but many Yozis have a "gateway" charm that gives you access to really neat effects at the cost of a penalty. Hateful Wretched Noise gives you penalties for anything over a whisper, Nightmare Fugue Vigilance drops your willpower recovery to a flat 1, Witness to Darkness mucks with your social-fu and so on.

For Oramus, I'm thinking he could use a charm that inverts difficulty rolls. Very thematic, but also very difficult to balance because you could easily smash a massive behemoth to pieces, only to fail miserably at hopping a fence. Perhaps it could be short duration so that you don't screw your character over? Scene-length perhaps?

Or we could use the previous set's focus on magic and lower the difficulty with rolls where your opposition is magical in nature, but raise it against mundane things?
EarthScorpion has a similar idea, where Oramus' Excellency could not be used for easy actions.

My (possible) take on it is: "the First Oramus Excellency cannot be used when the Infernal choose to partake in easy tasks for his abilities, including rolls where the amount of successes required (between Difficulty and External Penalties) is lower than half, rounded up, of the Infernal's initial dice pool".

Like, if you have a dice pool of 4 you can only add dices with the Excellency if the Difficulty is 2 or more. If the dice pool is 5 you can only add dices if the Difficulty is 3 and so on.

Too hard to balance, stuff that effects dice rolls will always be iffy; another idea for a gateway charm would be one that gives you an air of strangeness or you cause a feeling of disquiet t that puts other people at ill-ease, it gets worse as you grow in Essence, and it can be fairly crippling for your social situation. But perhaps it makes you fascinating so that while it makes it harder for people to like or befirend you, save perhaps those with derangement, it does mean that you're harder to ignore.
Like this one?

Beautiful In My Way
Cost: —
Mins: Essence 2
Type: Permanent
Keywords: Emotion, Obvious
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: None

Oramus is alien—he is Other in a sense that none of the other Yozis, even the Ebon Dragon, can match. And yet he possesses an eerie, strange beauty that draws demons to his perpetually bound self like moths to a candle's flame. On purchasing this Charm the Infernal's Appearance is increased to the highest rating allowed by her Essence, without the need to purchase dots with experience. Every scene the Infernal spends with another character counts as Unnatural Mental Influence devoted to building an Intimacy of Rapt Fascination in that character towards her. In the case the Infernal's natural Appearance reaches its current cap, it is treated as being (Essence/2, rounded down) higher. The Exalt may spend 2 Willpower points (reduced to 1 point for positive Intimacies) to not cause this effect in a given character for a scene. If other characters pay Willpower to reject the Unnatural Mental Influence, they become immune to it for the remaining of the scene.
 
How many? 1 WP per 2 Essence, rounded down?
No, just 1wp...but your idea isn't bad. Uhm...

Okay, based on what we have so far I can hazard a tentative beginning:

First basic Charm: rolling dice pools two times and pick the best one. Outside of that you can see the results of two different decisions, but only within seven seconds in the future. This is how Oramus interacts with the world, and it's based on the concept the Beyond contains all things that don't exist, included what-could-be.

Second basic Charm: based on "only I define myself" Oramus stick has, it's an anti-shaping defense. Probably automatic against Raksha, but against other sources of shaping we need to give the defense an Oramus-flavor. Ideas?

For Oramus Mythos Exultant, I currently have two proposals: one is to double the dices from stunts, but EarthScorpion didn't recommend messing with that, or, if you have used 1wp to generate an automatic success, adding another auto-sux if you choose 1wp as a reward. Thoughts?
 
First basic Charm: rolling dice pools two times and pick the best one. Outside of that you can see the results of two different decisions, but only within seven seconds in the future. This is how Oramus interacts with the world, and it's based on the concept the Beyond contains all things that don't exist, included what-could-be.
Essence 5+ and some other unspecified charms will allow you to "predict" seven minutes to the future, then seven hours, and seven days at its highest. Unless you feel like becoming Oramus 2.0, which will allow you to go seven weeks, months and years?

Second basic Charm: based on "only I define myself" Oramus stick has, it's an anti-shaping defense. Probably automatic against Raksha, but against other sources of shaping we need to give the defense an Oramus-flavor. Ideas?
Maybe something that fool the Shaping effect? Or something like you can't shape what is impossible or something?

For Oramus Mythos Exultant, I currently have two proposals: one is to double the dices from stunts, but EarthScorpion didn't recommend messing with that, or, if you have used 1wp to generate an automatic success, adding another auto-sux if you choose 1wp as a reward. Thoughts?
Not sure about this, but probably a decent idea.
 
Maybe something that fool the Shaping effect? Or something like you can't shape what is impossible or something?
I mean giving it a distinctive twist. I will like canon examples:

-Malfeas resists Shaping by acquiring 1 Limit
-Cecelyne makes a law against that Shaping
-SWLiHN slowly destroy it with immunitary system
-Adorjan negates it and reply with an attack
-Kimbery substitute it with a chosen Mutation (themed against sealife)
 
I mean giving it a distinctive twist. I will like canon examples:

-Malfeas resists Shaping by acquiring 1 Limit
-Cecelyne makes a law against that Shaping
-SWLiHN slowly destroy it with immunitary system
-Adorjan negates it and reply with an attack
-Kimbery substitute it with a chosen Mutation (themed against sealife)
Oramus turns it against them?
 
Oramus turns it against them?
Indeed, EarthScorpion suggested something similar: [There's probably various Defences in there with work by "lol I don't even notice your Shaping"]. So, maybe an automatic effect that turns the Shaping against the aggressor, maybe twisted with Oramus' theme or make it a derangement, in exchange for refounding the aggressor of the price of the Shaping while a Compulsion effect make the Infernal ignore the attempt, as he doesn't become aware??
 
Are we going to focus on Oramus as a 'birther' or Oramus as the 'Artist/Crafter?' When it comes time for the craft charms?
 
Are we going to focus on Oramus as a 'birther' or Oramus as the 'Artist/Crafter?' When it comes time for the craft charms?
How about something in between? :V
That is Kimbery's stick, to craft by giving birth. For Oramus I suggest another approach.

Okay, I thought about it again and reached the conclusion the "seeing the future" is too easy to abuse. People will slap me silly for even suggesting that. So it might be better to go back to EarthScorpion design: what do you guys think about a Charms that make non-physical mutations, like Derangements, valid targets for Awareness checks? The ME then can also serve to inflict temporary madness to those around the Infernal.
 
Charms that make non-physical mutations, like Derangements, valid targets for Awareness checks? The ME then can also serve to inflict temporary madness to those around the Infernal.
The latter I can understand, but the former...do you mean Shaping effects? And speaking of madness...what do you think of a charm that forces a person using something like All Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight or other magical means to observe an Oramus Infernal to roll an Integrity check or face SAN loss?
 
The latter I can understand, but the former...do you mean Shaping effects? And speaking of madness...what do you think of a charm that forces a person using something like All Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight or other magical means to observe an Oramus Infernal to roll an Integrity check or face SAN loss?
No, I mean mutations that aren't physical, like Amnesia or Hallucinations. That Charm is a good idea.
 
No, I mean mutations that aren't physical, like Amnesia or Hallucinations. That Charm is a good idea.
So something that allows the Infernal to do an Awareness check to see whether someone is kooky, and how severe his/her/its/??? kookiness is? Am I reading it correct?
 
Maybe something that allows the Oramus Infernal to gain a bonus to Social attacks against said kooky person?
Yes. Okay, let's re-cap:

First Charm: E2, it makes Derangements obvious with a successful Wits+Awareness, and also reduce the MDV when making a Social attack if the target has Derangements, every point of Derangement lowering the MDV by one point.

Second Charm: E2, with one-two repurchases at E3. First it makes the Infernal immune from effect from the wyld; then it should also offer an automatic defense from Shaping attack, where the Shaping is negated and the attacked receive a number of points of derangements equal to the Mins Essence of the power used (ST fiat for when uncertain) but is re-founded by the power's cost. Also, the Infernal remains unaware of the attempted Shaping.

Anyone wants to try to write them?
 
First Charm: E2, it makes Derangements obvious with a successful Wits+Awareness, and also reduce the MDV when making a Social attack if the target has Derangements, every point of Derangement lowering the MDV by one point.
Master of Madness
Cost: 0m (3m). Mins: Essence 2; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None

Oramus is the quintessential psychotic, a being of madness from before the divide between lucidity and lunacy ever existed. None understand the rigors of the mind more than he, and those with broken minds scream their secrets to him. An Infernal who knows this charm may freely roll Wits+Awareness against difficulty level 1 to ascertain the specifics about any Derangement(s) a character possesses. Failure prevents the Infernal from making another attempt for the rest of the scene as the paradox of impossible impossibilities baffle his power.

Additionally, the Infernal may spend 3 motes to enhance a social attack against a character who bears Derangements, reducing their MDV by one for every point of Derangement the character has.

---
thoughts?
 
I think that's pretty good, especially when it gets expanded on later down the line. Good costs. But needs something about Great Curse/limit, specify something like flaw inherent in their 'perfection' 'feral/madness' 'connection to the Loom' 'something dragony' 'connection to their Yozi patron' so an Oramus Infernal can't find out about Great Curse at Essence 2.

Though it would certainly be something Oramus and his Charmset could intuit at higher Essence. Since it's 'secret' and bullshit impossibru to find out about with normal mind medicine/derangment charms.
 
I think that's pretty good, especially when it gets expanded on later down the line. Good costs. But needs something about Great Curse/limit, specify something like flaw inherent in their 'perfection' 'feral/madness' 'connection to the Loom' 'something dragony' 'connection to their Yozi patron' so an Oramus Infernal can't find out about Great Curse at Essence 2.

Though it would certainly be something Oramus and his Charmset could intuit at higher Essence. Since it's 'secret' and bullshit impossibru to find out about with normal mind medicine/derangment charms.
Well, the charm is specific about Derangements, and the Great Curse isn't technically a Derangement. So it might even be an interesting plot point for an Infernal to examine a Solar who is clearly insane, but he reads as perfectly normal.

"Clearly he's activated some kind of defense against divination. We'll just have to kill him I guess."
 
Master of Madness
Cost: 0m (3m). Mins: Essence 2; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None

Oramus is the quintessential psychotic, a being of madness from before the divide between lucidity and lunacy ever existed. None understand the rigors of the mind more than he, and those with broken minds scream their secrets to him. An Infernal who knows this charm may freely roll Wits+Awareness against difficulty level 1 to ascertain the specifics about any Derangement(s) a character possesses. Failure prevents the Infernal from making another attempt for the rest of the scene as the paradox of impossible impossibilities baffle his power.

Additionally, the Infernal may spend 3 motes to enhance a social attack against a character who bears Derangements, reducing their MDV by one for every point of Derangement the character has.

---
thoughts?
Name and fluff aren't quite correct. It needs to be more about "madness is just a greater truth lowly people cannot understand".

Okay, I went ahead and did what I should have done long ago:

(Insert Appropriate Name)
Cost: —; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: None
Only Oramus defines the boundaries of his own existence. The effects of this Charm are identical to the effects of both the Solar Charms Integrity-Protecting Prana and Destiny-Manifesting Method (Exalted, p.p. XX), except they are always active and other characters cannot use a stunt to remove the penalty to their rolled Shaping effects.

Integrity-Protecting Prana
Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Integrity 1, Essence 1; Type: Reflexive (Step 2)
Keywords: Combo-OK, Mirror (Undying Stagnation Defense)
Duration: One day
Prerequisite Charms: None
Required for Charms: Destiny-Manifesting Method, Truth Shines Through

The Sun's Chosen define their own reality. This Charm protects the character from any Shaping effect that directly alters her mind, body, spirit or traits. This includes instantaneous Shaping effects and any new alterations caused by long-term Shaping effects. This Charm also protects the character from any undodgeable, unblockable Shaping attacks. Wyld energy cannot create a serpent inside the character's stomach or turn her armor to lava, whether it's manipulated by an enemy or its own random whims, because these effects inflict immediate damage and the character's DV is not applicable.

This Charm does not protect against the miscellaneous dangers of the Wyld. If a Wyld effect creates a hundred-headed snake monster with burning chalcedony eyes that then eats the character, this is not directly altering the character's body through shaping. Nor is it an "attack" when a Wyld effect transforms the character's armor into harmless gossamer spider webs—simply
an undesirable effect.

Destiny-Manifesting Method
Cost: —; Mins: Integrity 3, Essence 2; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: N/A
Prerequisite Charms: Integrity-Protecting Prana
Required for Charms: None

A Solar forges her own destiny, and none gainsay her will. This Charm increases the difficulty of any rolled Shaping effect (see Exalted, p. 217) used against the character by two. Characters using Shaping effects that involve the character can remove this penalty with any stunt that reconciles the Shaping effect with the Lawgiver's sense of her own destiny. In the Wyld or the Labyrinth, this Charm reduces the frequency of random unfortunate incidents by a factor of 10. There is no cost to use this Charm—it is a permanent enhancement to the Exalt's nature.

Thoughts?
 

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