People are using AI but not disclosing it. How do you detect it ?

[xihute]

Plagiarism is also regarded as unethical is it not?

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I don't consider AI to be plagiarism, so here we differ.

Cut out the AI for a moment. Is paying some guy to write your term papers unethical?

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Yes, because the papers are explicitly meant to test your abilities, knowledge, and understanding.

Is commissioning a painting and claiming its your own work scummy?

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A little bit. It's literally pretentious and deceitful but also harmless.

I have bigger problem with (undisclosed) ghost writers since buyers are misled that a book was written by person X.

That's why I say that undisclosed AI-use in commissioned works is unethical. Getting donations based on what's already written? Not that much.

 

[GatoArc]

I don't consider AI to be plagiarism, so here we differ.

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Hmm, it's funny that was not my intention when I wrote that, but now you got me contemplating. Is using AI plagiarism due to writing someone else's work and passing it as your own? I wonder what people think about this.

VPNs are a thing, so I'd disposable E-mail.
Also places like AO3 let you publish anonymously.

This is basically me wanting to give the tag a middle finger.

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Be ethical: Difficulty Impossible.

He has a point.
Why wouldn't any of the large posts here be AI generated?

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I thought his point was that AI generated tagged stories were being authentically written and tagged that way for the love of the game. lol

Unless you're saying that there are large stories with the AI tag? In which case I wouldn't know. I got AI tagged stories filtered out.

Sidenote: To those reading, I want to say that if you're an author that voluntarily tag their stories with the AI tag: you got my undying respect for doing that. It's people like you who make this site better for everyone.

 

[NumberSix]

I get where you're coming from, but the issue is, to me at least, wanting to give the tag a middle finger can read as the same as wanting to trick people into consuming something they're specifically setting out not to consume. That still pings as a dick move, you know?

You can do it. It's your right, I wouldn't stop you even if it was within my power. But at the end of the day, if you do it and if it goes perfectly and no one ever notices, what have you actually done except trick people into doing something they would find morally objectionable if they knew?

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I despise pointless rules and the types of people that push for them.

Especially if they for example try and limit my own freedom and flexibility.

I have pushed some of my writing through A.I. for editing and proof reading purposes and I have also experimented with using it to develop story progression. Maybe I would not be doing that if there were beta readers readily available or if I was an actual native English speaker but so far it does provide some interesting ideas and possibilities for improvement.

 

[BronzePlaceWriter]

I despise pointless rules and the types of people that push for them.

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That bit is understandable, yeah, but why then do you take that and use it to punish others? The other people you're tricking have nothing to do with those rules, pointless or not. Not only have they never even argued with you, they don't even know who you are.

So why is it okay for you to punish them because someone totally unrelated made a rule you don't like?

That's why I keep saying it sounds like a dick move. The moment you start to involve others, people unrelated who never did you any wrong, it stops being something you can justify just on the basis of ''well, I hate people telling me what to do.'' 'cus your response is to trick a bunch of other people into doing something they would never have done if they had known.

 

[Lightbringer]

Hmm, it's funny that was not my intention when I wrote that, but now you got me contemplating. Is using AI plagiarism due to writing someone else's work and passing it as your own? I wonder what people think about this.

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The issue with that is that it creates a situation that is frankly absurd.

Suppose I inject the word 'A' or the phrase 'the birds flew across the tapestry of the heavens' into a machine, if they use those same words, it is plagiarism.
But that implies that if you used the words and the letter 'a', you are commiting plagiarism.

So everyone is a plagiarist, now you could argue about books, but unless the text generated is the exact the same as in the book, then it wouldn't be plagiarism because to argue otherwise is to imply that every use of the writing word is plagiarism.

Moreso because if you just copy pasted the book, it would be obvious that you are copying it. And that doesn't consider about the act of reading.
Unconsciously you copy patterns and aspects of every book or work you read, if we wish to argue that line (which is as absurd as the last one).

So reading is bad, because if you went to write, you might accidentally use the patterns you got that shaped your own (which is what happens with LLM).

Be ethical: Difficulty Impossible.

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VPN use and anonymity is unethical now?

I thought his point was that AI generated tagged stories were being authentically written and tagged that way for the love of the game. lol

Unless you're saying that there are large stories with the AI tag? In which case I wouldn't know. I got AI tagged stories filtered out.

Sidenote: To those reading, I want to say that if you're an author that voluntarily tag their stories with the AI tag: you got my undying respect for doing that. It's people like you who make this site better for everyone.

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His point is that you can't really tell.
Nobody could in his topic.

 

[GatoArc]

VPN use and anonymity is unethical now?

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You got to be trolling me at this point.

 

[Lightbringer]

You got to be trolling me at this point.

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No, I do sustain that you just can't tell if something was generated by AI unless the case is extreme.

The same one you mocked did prove that, he wrote a fic, did the experiment saying an non generated work was generated, and people couldn't tell and assumed it was generated because he said that.
If they knew or there was 'the way' to know, then that wouldn't have happened.

So what does that imply? Your tag idea wouldn't work. And that we can't also tell currently if something is AI generated or not.

 

[aquinas]

Well, speaking of the Dune one, that guys got a blatantly AI assisted "The AI ate all my drafts" up on all his many stories.

Though those ones I'm astonished anyone didn't twig on immediately. He was running the full gamut of AI tells from the outset.

 

[GatoArc]

No, I do sustain that you just can't tell if something was generated by AI unless the case is extreme.

The same one you mocked did prove that, he wrote a fic, did the experiment saying an non generated work was generated, and people couldn't tell and assumed it was generated because he said that.
If they knew or there was 'the way' to know, then that wouldn't have happened.

So what does that imply? Your tag idea wouldn't work. And that we can't also tell currently if something is AI generated or not.

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I'm not going to engage with your argument about whether people can tell if a work is AI generated or not. You've been constantly trying to derail the conversation into this subject. If you are that interested in talking about AI and people's capability to detected it, then perhaps make another thread about the subject.

I'm also not going to pitch into talking about any one user's work here even if they volunteer it.

One last thing, I did not mock anyone.

Look we're obviously talking past each other, so this is the last comment I'm sending your way.

 

[xihute]

No, I do sustain that you just can't tell if something was generated by AI unless the case is extreme.

The same one you mocked did prove that, he wrote a fic, did the experiment saying an non generated work was generated, and people couldn't tell and assumed it was generated because he said that.
If they knew or there was 'the way' to know, then that wouldn't have happened.

So what does that imply? Your tag idea wouldn't work. And that we can't also tell currently if something is AI generated or not.

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People's feeling are greatly influenced by what they think they should feel or what they expect, or what's the widespread opinion.

That's why people will say that the cheap wine served them in expensive bottle tastes good. Out feelings aren't as objective as one may think.

With AI I've heard about a stunt where someone posted an image on twitter saying "look how good AI is, I asked for image in the style of the famous artists X, and that's what I got".

He got multum comments saying that it's not true, the image is bad, the reasons why it's bad and lacking.

Except it was an image of the original artist.

Human feelings are very wonky and context-dependent.

 

[Lightbringer]

People's feeling are greatly influenced by what they think they should feel or what they expect, or what's the widespread opinion.

That's why people will say that the cheap wine served them in expensive bottle tastes good. Out feelings aren't as objective as one may think.

With AI I've heard about a stunt where someone posted an image on twitter saying "look how good AI is, I asked for image in the style of the famous artists X, and that's what I got".

He got multum comments saying that it's not true, the image is bad, the reasons why it's bad and lacking.

Except it was an image of the original artist.

Human feelings are very wonky and context-dependent.

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Human feelings might indeed be that, but you know what also is immoral? Which I also believe the ones asking for such a tag are missing?

False accusations and punishments given to the innocent.
No amount of 'feelings' will ever justify it or all the evils in the world are justified

 

[Lightbringer]

Well, speaking of the Dune one, that guys got a blatantly AI assisted "The AI ate all my drafts" up on all his many stories.

Though those ones I'm astonished anyone didn't twig on immediately. He was running the full gamut of AI tells from the outset.

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He did spoke or something else?
Because even if we state that 'oh, but he used AI'.
Why are we assuming that either? Do we really know?

 

[xihute]

No amount of 'feelings' will ever justify it or all the evils in the world are justified

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It wasn't about that at all.

False accusations and punishments given to the innocent.

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I think that's unfair to characterize everyone who wants AI tagging as such.

I do think there's real danger of witch hunts and we shouldn't dismiss it but lets not go in the other extreme and imply that everyone who wishes for AI tagging wants to engage in the witch hunts.

I'm saying this as someone who would like AI tags but doesn't care so much, and is okay with reading stuff where AI was used.

 

[BronzePlaceWriter]

To confirm, I don't think there is shame in someone not tagging their story ''Ai Free'' even if it is. I think that plenty of writers would do that, even either because they don't feel like making a big deal out of it or because they don't care about the AI stuff and don't want to get drawn in. I don't feel that the existence of an ''AI Free'' tag automatically will create witch haunts, and I don't really think it's fair to lock it down and deny people who don't want to read AI writing their own tag, just like I don't feel it's good to hunt or mock people who do use AI writing.

If we're going to be fair, we need to be fair to both parties and that means that yes, no punishments for AI and no witchhunting for using AI, but people are allowed to have a term for human made stories too.

The ideal situation is just that there would be three tags: ''AI'', ''Undisclosed'' and ''AI-Free'' and people can sort their story however they want. Undisclosed would obviously be the biggest one, but I think that's good. The other two would mostly just be for those who want to specify one way or the other without being mandated to do so.

 

[aquinas]

He did spoke or something else?
Because even if we state that 'oh, but he used AI'.
Why are we assuming that either? Do we really know?

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Assuming we're talking about the same Paul in Brockton story its labelled now and the "AI ate my homework" notice is threadmarked.

 

[Lightbringer]

I do think there's real danger of witch hunts and we shouldn't dismiss it but lets not go in the other extreme and imply that everyone who wishes for AI tagging wants to engage in the witch hunts.

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I get it, the problem is that given the conditions and the lack of hard clad proof in regards to AI use in works, it would be basically something that can only be enforced if you engaged in witch hunting.

Or instead, given the conditions, it would be a witch hunt.

 

[Lightbringer]

Assuming we're talking about the same Paul in Brockton story its labelled now and the "AI ate my homework" notice is threadmarked.

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So he did said it.
Hm.
Now I can't say if he was careless or if he is tricking everyone.

 

[Sailor Autochthonia]

I'm not going to engage with your argument about whether people can tell if a work is AI generated or not. You've been constantly trying to derail the conversation into this subject. If you are that interested in talking about AI and people's capability to detected it, then perhaps make another thread about the subject.

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Sir, this is the "People are using AI but not disclosing it. How do you detect it ?" thread. Whether the methods actually work is definitely relevant to this thread.

 

[NumberSix]

Well, speaking of the Dune one, that guys got a blatantly AI assisted "The AI ate all my drafts" up on all his many stories.

Though those ones I'm astonished anyone didn't twig on immediately. He was running the full gamut of AI tells from the outset.

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I completely endorse any and all sequel content/finish the story type works made with A.I. where Dune, Star Wars, ASoIaF, Slan and Star Trek are concerned.
No AI slop can be worse than KJA and Brian Herbert(pinky and the brain), or the trash that has been getting labeled as Wars and Trek nowadays.
And GRRM can't finish a story if his life depended on it.

 

[xihute]

Now I can't say if he was careless or if he is tricking everyone.

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The AI use was very noticable when I read, so when I heard about the controversy "the author said he uses AI", I was like: "duh? Isn't that obvious?"

I like the story, I think it is thought out and the writing is okay, the AI most likely used to rewrite or polish author's drafts. The AI-style still made me put the story on hold.

"AI ate my homework"

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What does it mean?

 

[aquinas]

"Teacher, the dog ate my homework."

 

[NumberSix]

.

The ideal situation is just that there would be three tags: ''AI'', ''Undisclosed'' and ''AI-Free'' and people can sort their story however they want. Undisclosed would obviously be the biggest one, but I think that's good. The other two would mostly just be for those who want to specify one way or the other without being mandated to do so.

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And what will actually happen is that people will aggressively click the no AI button even of they have used it to a degree or demand that no such tags exist because they don't want to be ostracized by people with AI derangement syndrome.
Models and the tooling around them will get better incrementally, so will people's ability to tard wrangle them.

Nothing actually useful will come out of the whole conundrum.

 

[BronzePlaceWriter]

And what will actually happen is that people will aggressively click the no AI button even of they have used it to a degree or demand that no such tags exist because they don't want to be ostracized by people with AI derangement syndrome.

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That's their choice then, as are the consequences when and if they get caught doing it. But that doesn't mean that people who want AI free stories shouldn't get their own tag, and it doesn't mean that smuggling AI stories within a tag specifically dedicated to not having them is not kind of a dick move.

Nothing actually useful will come out of the whole conundrum.

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I feel like giving people who don't like AI a tag to share and use for themselves is a useful thing in and of itself, actually. Both because it gives people a place to go for human made stories and also because it minimises witch hunting for Ai writers who prefer to stay in the middle ground and not declare.

 

[NumberSix]

That's their choice then, as are the consequences when and if they get caught doing it. But that doesn't mean that people who want AI free stories shouldn't get their own tag, and it doesn't mean that smuggling AI stories within a tag specifically dedicated to not having them is not kind of a dick move.



I feel like giving people who don't like AI a tag to share and use for themselves is a useful thing in and of itself, actually. Both because it gives people a place to go for human made stories and also because it minimises witch hunting for Ai writers who prefer to stay in the middle ground and not declare.

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Counter idea, we just ignore the people suffering from A.I. derangement syndrome and the other antis that hate A.I. for one reason or another.

 

[BronzePlaceWriter]

Counter idea, we just ignore the people suffering from A.I. derangement syndrome and the other antis that hate A.I. for one reason or another.

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Or maybe treating people equally means actually treating them equally and letting both sides have their own space? Just maybe...?

 

[NumberSix]

Or maybe treating people equally means actually treating them equally and letting both sides have their own space? Just maybe...?

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Not implementing a useless feature for the sake of a small minority of haters that want everyone else to dance to their tune is the absolute definition of equality in my book. Sensible business logic, too.

 

[BronzePlaceWriter]

Not implementing a useless feature for the sake of a small minority of haters that want everyone else to dance to their tune is the absolute definition of equality in my book. Sensible business logic, too.

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People are allowed to ask for their own space for their stuff. That's neither weird nor bad.

 

[GatoArc]

Sir, this is the "People are using AI but not disclosing it. How do you detect it ?" thread. Whether the methods actually work is definitely relevant to this thread.

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Their entire argument is essentially, "you can't detect AI so what you're doing is pointless" Tell me how that isn't a derailment of the thread. It converts the thread from the underlying issue, that being avoiding undetected AI works, into: "You're schizo and everytime you detect AI it's actually all in your head."

Even though clear as day to anyone who reads more than 100 words a day, can spot the obvious tells of AI prompts after reading a bit.

That is why it's a derailment and nothing more than an attempt to shut down the conversation.

Counter idea, we just ignore the people suffering from A.I. derangement syndrome and the other antis that hate A.I. for one reason or another.

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Not implementing a useless feature for the sake of a small minority of haters that want everyone else to dance to their tune is the absolute definition of equality in my book. Sensible business logic, too.

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It is honestly quite baffling how nasty the ones proclaiming "Witch hunt" every minute of this conversation have gotten.

 

[NumberSix]

It is honestly quite baffling how nasty the ones proclaiming "Witch hunt" every minute of this conversation have gotten.

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What goes around comes around, the antis have been extremely vociferous and their constant complaints provide zero value,they attack people left and right for liking A.I. content, they are a real pain in the ass on some other sites.

I am just fighting back.

 

[GatoArc]

What goes around comes around, the antis have been extremely vociferous and their constant complaints provide zero value,they attack people left and right for liking A.I. content, they are a real pain in the ass on some other sites.

I am just fighting back.

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So essentially, all you have been doing since you started engaging in this thread (as I sussed out earlier), has been this. Low effort, derailment with the intended effort to vent your frustrations on people that wouldn't have even bothered you with whatever it is you work with.

It is wild to me how your mind works. For I and others in this thread, for daring to have a preference, we are deigned deranged, haters, who provide zero value.

I guess if I were to respond, it would be deemed as a "Witch Hunt", meanwhile your targeted behavior wouldn't? This reminds me of Palpatine during the Mace Windu scene.