Hi. I am MageOhki, and am doing a quest on SB, called Redemption Quest. Due to certain issues...
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More that I couldn't find my editor minion, and he hasn't gone over that part yet. I'm hoping he gets to it.Hello there. My friend asked me to look at this, so I did.
While premise is interesting, there several things that make me vary about reading.
One is quality of first few "chapters" I've read. I suspect that you only started back then, and since it was more than ten years ago, quality of later writing likely to be better, yet still, unless one willing to skip the start, they'll have to struggle through it.
Okay. I think this is a terminology error here. I have no problems writing adults in R situations(nudity, ah... compromising situations), but hard R (aka old Skinmax movies, neh?) or porn porn, no. Exalted is mature, and aspects even without lemons, by me or others, would fall well into the NSFW, though I do admit, I asked a few people who do frequent the forum where to post.It in "NSFW" part, yet you said you wouldn't write smut. Feels like cheating to me, just because NSFW are more popular,and so you hope to get more attention to your quest. Like these serials on TV, where they take a famous title, like Wheel of Time, of Sherlock Holmes, but in reality it's original story with only few references to "canon'.
IF I'm thinking correctly you're referring to Reggie's talk to Sarah. Note, those were doctors. If you're trying to tell me the PRT and Caldron could suppress MEDICAL doctors, from talking to each other, because within 5 years of the first parahuman, they'd have the data, period, I have a bridge to sell you. Now, the doctors might not talk about it to the general public/etal, but they'd know. If Wildbow says otherwise... uh, yeah. That one does not come even close to practical knowledge. Now, to be fair, I can see Doctors not talking about it, for precisely the reasons above, ie, the risk that people seeking powers will instead end up killing themselves, but they'd still know.AU elements that, I'm afraid, you may not throught out well enough. Namely - widespread knowledge about Trigger events.In canon, both PRT and Cauldron try their best to prevent it from becoming public knowledge. Cauldron because it would reduce amount of Triggers (because if you have hope that you may get power, you are less likely to snap hard enough for Trigger), PRT because of dumbasses who will try dangerous shit to get powers (let's face it - lot of.teenagers, and no small amount of adults would do something dumb if they really believe it can give them superpowers). Earth Bet where knowledge about Trigger events are avaluable to public would be wastly different place from canon image.
Now, I can't be sure it isn't. I haven't read enough of your story to know it. But I doubt it is.
Any one wouldn't be reason to not read, but combined... For some light-hearted story "don't think too hard about it, we'll here to have fun" I'd most likely still give it chance. But I have feeling this story, despite "elements of Peggy Sue", isn't noe of them. I may be wrong, though.
My condolences, then.More that I couldn't find my editor minion, and he hasn't gone over that part yet. I'm hoping he gets to it.
That's likely, yes. As far as I know, "NSFW" refers specifically for erotic/pornographic content, unlike ratings like "Mature / Explict" or "R / NC-17" which may refer to violence, alcohol/drug use, and other non-sexual activities that not suitable for childrens.
Nah. First two chapters - basically, every single adult know about Triggers, and Danny know enough to somehow say that Taylor's situation doesn't look like one (despite knowing very little about said situation).IF I'm thinking correctly you're referring to Reggie's talk to Sarah. Note, those were doctors.
She, like Mr. Robinson, and several other staff members, had been given training to spot hidden capes, as well as handle at least somewhat trigger events.
.I know what trigger events are. This isn't one, or at least nothing short of a easy 2nd generation one, therefore you had a Teacher like power granter sneak into this camp!
No problem. That's what comments are for, after all, to discuss story/fic/quest/etc.
And Exalted falls strongly into NSFW, 'spc considering a *lot* of the activities they get up to, much less the martial arts. (I mean, have you *looked* at Sapphire Veils or White Veil recently?) And to be fair, *I* draw a line between erotic/porn bright and hard. Erotic *is something* I'm fine with writing with consenting adults(I'll admit I could if the story required it write rape, but it'd not be erotic, and I'd likely kill the rapist... And still not like it). Porn? Not so much. That's what I define as lemons.My condolences, then.
That's likely, yes. As far as I know, "NSFW" refers specifically for erotic/pornographic content, unlike ratings like "Mature / Explict" or "R / NC-17" which may refer to violence, alcohol/drug use, and other non-sexual activities that not suitable for childrens.
I can't find any definition that mentioned anything not related to erotic or porn. Though, since different sites and dictionaries use different, if mostly simular definitions, I wouldn't be surprised if someone uses this term as substitute for age-restriction rating.
Though, if I'd summarize definitions, it would be something like "not appropriate for watching in public places, because it may offend bustanders". That would mean thing like racial/religious/cultural
Okay, I thought I made that point clear. But I'll go back and clear it up during the massive edit pass. The camp, in reality? Is more or less PRT camp for Wards to sate the Youth Guard. Officially it's not, but pretty much everyone there was cleared by the PRT. Again, not the general public. There is a reason why it was recommended to Danny *from* the PRT.Nah. First two chapters - basically, every single adult know about Triggers, and Danny know enough to somehow say that Taylor's situation doesn't look like one (despite knowing very little about said situation).
.
No problem. That's what comments are for, after all, to discuss story/fic/quest/etc.
I will, probably, return to it later, too see how much efforts of your "editor minion" will change it.
Also, while I usually try to avoid it (voting without full knowledge about context), here:
[X] Taylor stubbornly doubles down on how it's her *job*, given to her by the Unconquered Sun to do what she has to do to bring people together.
-[X] Maybe you're right. Maybe sometimes it's impossible to make someone listen. But that's my job as Solar - to be a hero and do right things, even if everyone say it's impossible.
I may not know what lead to it, but if I know anything at all about Exalted, it really, really BAD idea to listen to Abyssal, even when said Abyssal honestly tries to help you. Especially when you are Solar.
Uuhhh, I don't sure they would do that, actually. One reason is protecting identities. Just things that necessary for their "job" already give people clues (like only half day at school), no matter how PRT tries to disguise it. And then there's teenagers being teenagers. And social ties they will show outside of costume. Already more than enough for people to suspect who's who. Add to it any more clues, like "hey, these guys going into one summer camp"? Not too wise.Okay, I thought I made that point clear. But I'll go back and clear it up during the massive edit pass. The camp, in reality? Is more or less PRT camp for Wards to sate the Youth Guard.
Figured out proper terms? That probably wasn't in use during Lustrum's days.As for Danny, (and to an extent others), they have contacts, and figured it out. (Annette and Zoe were Lustum, for example, though Zoe isn't canon, not even mentioned...)
My thinking is the PRT funded/approved the camp, does not send the Wards generally there. It was "Here, Youth Guard, see? We have this for them, if they want it!" ie, a sop. It's something IF I was an honest Youth Guard I'd approve of, and something if I was PRT, be willing to give them to *get them off my back*. This is where my own personal experience is "this is what would happen." (Ie, my own personal experience with nearly, shit, 20 years working for the US Federal government, in two separate organizations) It also helps that a fair bit of the staff are 'retired' PRT/other federal employees. It'd also be a good recruiting pitch.Uuhhh, I don't sure they would do that, actually. One reason is protecting identities. Just things that necessary for their "job" already give people clues (like only half day at school), no matter how PRT tries to disguise it. And then there's teenagers being teenagers. And social ties they will show outside of costume. Already more than enough for people to suspect who's who. Add to it any more clues, like "hey, these guys going into one summer camp"? Not too wise.
First, as noted above, it was a sop to Youth Guard and PR. Note I expressly state (that outside of the fact that Colin used Taylor as bait for Ex-Annette) the Wards don't go. Your points are quite astute about the threat, however. (and I tried to get the other voters to *bite* on that threat, annoying!) There's a reason why the PRT and protectorate doesn't send Wards unless they really want to go. More importantly, the hilarious bit is the PRT actually does use the camp... for their own kids. It's a in house bennie, cheap summer camp for their kids. Risk is actually fairly low, or no more than any other place. (I'd argue about the S9 threat in this case, actually, given what they seem to target. Fallen, honestly, if this was say the Rockies or Midwest, concede fully. But this is New England.)Another reason - such facilities would become tempting target for Fallens, S9 and the likes. To hide camp's purpose and ties with PRT is practically impossible, without compromising said purpose. While make such facilities haevily guarded is literally impossible - they don't have enough Capes to spare. And even if some branches do, doing so would only make it even more noticeable, and so - more likely to be targeted, and to clue people in Wards' civilian identities.
Imo, sending Wards to mundane camps would probably be safer than that.
"We want this." "Okay, here's a camp we certified." "Thank you!"And Youth Guard, unless you want to make them incompetent spiteful dumbasses, can be reasoned with.
No, but again, What the general public is willing to learn, vs explicit individuals, is radically different. Most people are lazy. Most people don't care.Figured out proper terms? That probably wasn't in use during Lustrum's days.
And phenomenon of "second generation" parahumans being easier to Trigger? I have to remind you that only New Wave revealed their identities and so can be monitored for such things, for one. Yes, some of them known to be relatives, like Allfather, Kaiser and Iron Rain. Does anyone know how any one of them Triggered? Parahumans hate to even think about their Triggers. Talk about it? Many would rather die. And then there's point that revealing circumstances of their Trigger Event may reveal, or at least give clues about their civilian ID. It's rather difficult to gather any meaningful amount of data, let alone enough to talk as confidently as Danny.
For two - Triggers often may not look like much for observer. Let's use Sophia (presumably Sophia, afaik Wildbow didn't confirmed it outright) as example - for outside perspective, she Triggered without any reason at all, just because her step-father tried to establish good relationships with her. While in reality he "socially suffocated" her, not leave her any place for herself... And she Triggered when he admited he does it on purpose. (https://www.reddit.com/r/Parahumans/comments/4fzsc5/did_wilbur_hint_at_shadow_stalkers_trigger/)
Use it as bait and distraction? If so, that does make some sense.My thinking is the PRT funded/approved the camp, does not send the Wards generally there
That's true, though while BB is example we most familiar with, it clearly can't be used to represent average level of PRT branch.As for the social ties/clique argument: Arcadia and the Brockton Bay Wards behavior in it. hate to say it, *in the actual writing* there is clear and present proof that if PRT actually cares, they sure as hell don't show it in BB.
Well, Jack love making big news, when it doesn't involve much risk, so slaightering bunch of Wards, if he sure they (S9) can flee after that seems like something he would be tempted to do.I'd argue about the S9 threat in this case, actually, given what they seem to target
Only thing I disagree here is "doesn't cost the PRT much", since if YG demanded camps which Wards can attend, that definitely can't be one camp per country. And to cover most of North America (US and Canada) with reasonable acessible camps? Even if most of it would be already existing ones that just need some "upgrades" - it not that cheap."We want this." "Okay, here's a camp we certified." "Thank you!"
Youth guard is happy, doesn't cost the PRT much, and the PRT can use it in other arguments later. Think of it this way. It was an 'effective' worthless gesture on the PRT's part, so they could get other things though. Give and take, no?
No, but again, What the general public is willing to learn, vs explicit individuals, is radically different. Most people are lazy. Most people don't care.
That's true and fair. But this is exactly why I think that any intentional spreading of this info is something they wouldn't do. Because it multiply difficulcy of keeping it from general public.I am not, nor will I give Contessa/Caldron and the PRT some awesome powers to completely squish knowledge. Best (and fairly easy, too) they can do is keep it out of general knowledge (And while I will dip into Wildbow's WoG, unless it's in Worm, it's my choice to accept or not accept. I'd point out what Disney did to Star Wars, for example on 'canon' stuff, neh? Not to mention IIRC, there's at least one example of WoG contradicting Worm itself.) Don't care. There are functional hard limits to what can be done.
What I talked about here, is:... Kaiser himself is a 2nd gen parahuman. That means 2nd generation+ parahumans are at least 15 years past trigger. In fact, IIRC, Vikare triggered in 84, correct? that means practical 2nd gen triggers would be no later than '95. Again, do not give the PRT/Contessa/Caldron that level of power, doesn't work when you actually run up against how people behave and work.
I'd actually use VICKY, myself. Again, this is Wildbow being a complete idiot. Sorry, but it is. My wife is a peds MD, and works with a lot of psychologists. You'd be surprised on what they learn. Very much so. Wildbow's universe when you start cranking the details with knowledge of how things work... Breaks. Breaks hard.
Was thinking more deal making with the YG, but... same theory applies.Use it as bait and distraction? If so, that does make some sense.
Teenagers are teenagers. I doubt it's any different anywhere else.That's true, though while BB is example we most familiar with, it clearly can't be used to represent average level of PRT branch.
I'd just point out in canon Taylor did attend a summer camp. If Jack was inclined to hit them (which I'm not disagreeing he'd do so), there would be no summer camps period.Well, Jack love making big news, when it doesn't involve much risk, so slaightering bunch of Wards, if he sure they (S9) can flee after that seems like something he would be tempted to do.
For a government agency? Uh... at most, op costs would be around (figuring 24 or so camps, which is too many), 2 million, subtracting what the camps bring in. Capital costs, realistically, would be low if they took over various properties the US government already owned.Only thing I disagree here is "doesn't cost the PRT much", since if YG demanded camps which Wards can attend, that definitely can't be one camp per country. And to cover most of North America (US and Canada) with reasonable acessible camps? Even if most of it would be already existing ones that just need some "upgrades" - it not that cheap.
Taylor didn't, in general, remember? Trust me, I've known several teenagers (that hilariously is my job, now) who don't care about much.Kids and teenagers don't care how they can get superpowers? When they know for sure superpowers are real? Sorry, can't see that.
Depends on how you do it. But generally, most people don't ask. Intentional spreading, would not be something that Caldron would want, concede, given it lowers the number of parahumans (as discussed elsewhere), PRT otoh... I could see it, since they want less headaches. And it'd depend who's trying. It may simply be that Danny knew who to ask, and was willing to talk. But the number of people who have to know, is well above the critical threshold.That's true and fair. But this is exactly why I think that any intentional spreading of this info is something they wouldn't do. Because it multiply difficulcy of keeping it from general public.
... no, it's not. Identification of people is really not that difficult, (In fact, I do believe there was a Batman issue/ep where Bruce discusses how he avoids the identification, and since I've seen nothing in Worm to show that anyone is working that angle, the method I'd use, is easy.) even if they wear masks/etal.What I talked about here, is:
1) It's hard to connect parahuman Cape identity and civilian identity, which is necessary to learn about their Trigger Event.
Like I said, I can figure out how to extract that information in at least 2 separate ways. Some time consuming, some easy. Honestly, given the trauma and human nature? If I was really in a hurry? "Here, let's go drinking, you look down." You are not going to convince me otherwise. There's an old, old old saying. "Three can keep a secret... if two are dead." The information is out there, because people like to talk, and unload, even if they say they don't. Again, not where everyone knows, I agree, and bluntly, that part I can see and accept, no one knowing, or unable to get the information without work? Doesn't pass my own experience. The contacts to do that information gathering is the pain.2) Even if one figure out civilian ID of some Cape, Trigger Events may not even be noticeable for any observer who doesn't posses some bullshit level of knowledge about parahuman in question. Again, see Sophia's Trigger Event - unless you know what exactly her stepfather whispered to her, you have no way to learn what happened. Another example - Tinkers would looks like they have really easy Triggers, while really they don't.
*ponders* Not a trivial task, agreed, but well within easily doable. Put aside what Wildbow wrote, and think about people, think about how easy it was to get information on anything in 2005. Much less today.3) You have to gather info about not one or two parahumans, but dozens, before you could even start to think about possible patterns. Hundreds, before you can hope to really see it.
15 years+. This is during the information age and growth of such, the problem isn't that the information isn't out there, it's sorting though it.4) Second gen capes are even harder to pinpoint, because you have to learn about parahuman relationships, and second gen parahumans may not even be related by blood. It about emotional attachement. And then there parahumans who should be second gen, but instead they are first gen, because they have Shard on their own, instead of Bud.
Overall, to have chance to see these dots you want to connect, you have to possess accurate knowledge about dozens of Trigger Events. And even if you do, it wouldn't be easy to make any conclusion without both significant knowledge about psychology and significant time invested in this research.
I have to disagree. Teenagers are teenagers, yes, but I doubt average PRT branch have such hand off approach to it.Teenagers are teenagers. I doubt it's any different anywhere else.
He have to make it interesting for other members. And killing some kids, for most of them, aren't enough. Maybe as novelty, once or twice, but not on regular basis. Ward camp, on the other camp? Yes, that's exactly thekind of "fun" they'd go for.I'd just point out in canon Taylor did attend a summer camp. If Jack was inclined to hit them (which I'm not disagreeing he'd do so), there would be no summer camps period.
Not crippling cost,yes. But still money they have to substract from somewhere else, and they already spread pretty thin. All to awoid what?For a government agency? Uh... at most, op costs would be around (figuring 24 or so camps, which is too many), 2 million, subtracting what the camps bring in. Capital costs, realistically, would be low if they took over various properties the US government already owned.
Teenagers are people, and have different interests, true. But real superpowers? I'd say it would be quite high on priority list for most of them.Taylor didn't, in general, remember? Trust me, I've known several teenagers (that hilariously is my job, now) who don't care about much.
That would make more headaches, tho. As I said above, in the first comment here, lot of people would try some dumb shit if they believe it would give them superpowers. Most of them, obviously, wouldn't Trigger, but uptick of dead and crippled people, mostly teenagers, isn't something any reasonable person would go for.
That's not about change itself. My concern here was, and still are - did you accounted for all changes this would cause for Earth Bet. Some poeple would die, because they'd have hope they'll Trigger and receive power to save them, and thus didn't snapped, or did it too late (Where's Aegis? There's no such Cape. That's not really spoiler - he died because he knew about Triggers, and had hope when his canon Trigger Event happened. Same with Rune, btw). Some just wouldn't Trigger, for same reason (Clockblosker? He didn't snapped yet). Some would die because they'll do something stupid in hope to get powers ("Greg? Yes, I remember him. Dumbass jumped from the building. Why? I think he mentioned he found online how people can get powers. But that's Greg, no one really listened to him.").AU elements that, I'm afraid, you may not thought out well enough. Namely - widespread knowledge about Trigger events. In canon, both PRT and Cauldron try their best to prevent it from becoming public knowledge. Cauldron because it would reduce amount of Triggers (because if you have hope that you may get power, you are less likely to snap hard enough for Trigger), PRT because of dumbasses who will try dangerous shit to get powers (let's face it - lot of.teenagers, and no small amount of adults would do something dumb if they really believe it can give them superpowers). Earth Bet where knowledge about Trigger events are available to public would be wastly different place from canon image.
Now, I can't be sure it isn't. I haven't read enough of your story to know it. But I doubt it is.
True, but remember that Earth Bet progress speed took several big hits. Tinkers, while may provide incredible benefits, make regular science less appealing. In nineties, when Behemoth, and then other Endbringers appeared. Warlords.with 2005 era programs and computers, most IDs are blown when put to the test
Good to hear you not giving people idiot ball, but please remember to give them something else to live on instead, if you decided to deprive them Earth Bet.But cape ID's are paper thin, by and large unless a full body changer or you take a lot of steps to prevent it. (Dragon has one of the more hard to beat ones, and ironically Parian and Shadow Stalker took a lot of the needed steps to make it difficult. {Parian more so} Skitter came close, but she didn't hide her hair, and didn't use vocal shifting to remove that trick.) Domino masks only go so far. (Batman's mask actually doesn't do enough even, for example. Lung's, does, but you know his hair, his voice, his body shape.)
I am not giving idiot balls to people.
Ironically? They live with E88.I don't see it as either ironic or coincidental.and ironically Parian and Shadow Stalker took a lot of the needed steps to make it difficult
Actually, given the situation Piggot is in? PRT ENE's competence level is actually high.I have to disagree. Teenagers are teenagers, yes, but I doubt average PRT branch have such hand off approach to it.
Basically, if we take PRT ENE as average PRT branch level of competence, this organisation wouldn't exist.
Presumes he knows that the camps exists, weren't we talking about it? From what little canon, and taking wiki/wog with a heavy grain of salt, he wants glamour and challenge. Killing kids, won't get the latter, neh? Presuming he knows. (And alas, the voters on SB killed that option. Wimps!)He have to make it interesting for other members. And killing some kids, for most of them, aren't enough. Maybe as novelty, once or twice, but not on regular basis. Ward camp, on the other camp? Yes, that's exactly thekind of "fun" they'd go for.
Except: "What else do you want?" That's the deal making I'm pointing out. PRT might have been presented with a list of demands, and the camp is *the least bad* option (or most perfered), to pick from. I'm not going into detail, but it's sasuage making in politics, no? Plus, the camps themselves don't actually cost that much, not when you consdier how many of the staff are using this as a sinecure, the capital costs are borne by other agencies, et al. Just what did the YG ask for...Not crippling cost,yes. But still money they have to substract from somewhere else, and they already spread pretty thin. All to awoid what?
YG: "You should organize summer camps for Wards"
PRT: "Why can't they go for existing camps?"
YG: "Uhhh... Because?"
PRT: "They already partly isolated from their peers by their powers and activities. We should strive to mutigate it, not make it even worse."
Given, again, I work with (Surprise, I'm a Job Corps employee...) teenagers... yeah, no, let's be honest, if it hits 10% I'd be surprised. Fair bit are excessively self absorbed people who don't think. I'll be fair, that's one thing Wildbow got right. Very few teenagers in BB/etal put any effort into finding out. (And I'll agree with you that BB is an outlier, but in this case, it should be an outlier that goes with your thinking.)Teenagers are people, and have different interests, true. But real superpowers? I'd say it would be quite high on priority list for most of them.
Which is why I do think the PRT and Caldron (for different reasons) are keeping it out of general knowledge. PRT would be easier, in fact to do so, it's talking to the media personnel. But, realistically, that's all they can do. They might be able to increase how hard it is to find, but they can't stop it.That would make more headaches, tho. As I said above, in the first comment here, lot of people would try some dumb shit if they believe it would give them superpowers. Most of them, obviously, wouldn't Trigger, but uptick of dead and crippled people, mostly teenagers, isn't something any reasonable person would go for.
Though, since it would be, mostly, someone else's problems, maybe they'd go for it. Possible.
Well, let's return to my point from which that part of our discuss emerged:
That's not about change itself. My concern here was, and still are - did you accounted for all changes this would cause for Earth Bet. Some poeple would die, because they'd have hope they'll Trigger and receive power to save them, and thus didn't snapped, or did it too late (Where's Aegis? There's no such Cape. That's not really spoiler - he died because he knew about Triggers, and had hope when his canon Trigger Event happened. Same with Rune, btw). Some just wouldn't Trigger, for same reason (Clockblosker? He didn't snapped yet). Some would die because they'll do something stupid in hope to get powers ("Greg? Yes, I remember him. Dumbass jumped from the building. Why? I think he mentioned he found online how people can get powers. But that's Greg, no one really listened to him.").
Under what law? Every law since pre Scion intentionally makes medical information privileged.And that only most obvious kind of butterflies that would've happened. For example, Taylor with her canon Trigger would join Wards. Because people at hospital would know that "flashes of light and weird sensations" she complaints about, after such traumatic event, may mean she Triggered. And thus would inform PRT.
And so on, and so forth.
I thought it though, yes. The thing is, I think the difference is, we have different views of teenagers. You see them as far less self absorbed brats. (Maybe it's I deal with a fair bit). Now, that's being a bit unfair, I'll admit, but from my own memories, and what I see every day? Yeah, no, I'm going to have to disagree (Will there be ones? Battery herself comes to mind, yes.) that a significant number in general will look. Even then, it wouldn't be easy to find it, given their general capabilities and like. (I'm actually surprised in canon Greg didn't stumble across Caldron, for example, since he is one who would, concede.) Even with those who luck out/have the knack... I'd say 8 out of 10 times, there'd be information given "Yes, this is how triggers happen... but trying to force this bro, doesn't work. My little bro died doing it."If you accounted for it? Great. That mean this version of Earth Bet are at lest slightly more 'solid' than Wildbow's. But if no? That's a big red flag for me right here.
True, but remember that Earth Bet progress speed took several big hits. Tinkers, while may provide incredible benefits, make regular science less appealing. In nineties, when Behemoth, and then other Endbringers appeared. Warlords.
In some areas it may be on par with our world, but in general? Nope. So, 2011 would mean more beginning of the 2000s, at best. For example, afaik, there's no social networks at all.
Good to hear you not giving people idiot ball, but please remember to give them something else to live on instead, if you decided to deprive them Earth Bet.
Jokes aside, not giving people idiot balls mean they would do more to conceal their identities. Unless you mean you reserve all idiot balls for PRT and/or parahumans.
Also, I think means to conseal identity may be case of Aragorn's pants. Not in all cases, but in many. That we don't see what people do for it doesn't always mean they don't do anything. For example, I can shift my voice in fairly wide range, and it not tiresome for me or anything - I just have to maintain a little concentration on how I want to talk. That not unreasonable to think Protectorate heroes (and Wards) receive some training how to change their voice.
Facial? Some make-up can do wonders, especially when we talking about human recognition, not programs. Remember Tattletale and her domino mask? People often make fun of her, while forgetting that she uses make-up to made her face unrecognizable. People think they know how she looks, while really they won't recognize her if they'll meet her as Lisa. Not the worst possible strategy, actually.
That would mostly apply to Protectorate and Wards, and corporate teams, since most of other Capes either can't allow professional make-up artist, or don't need them. Most would just use less revealing costumes and masks.
Ironically? They live with E88.I don't see it as either ironic or coincidental.
But tbh, most people who aren't from Protectorate or Wards, and have some working brain cells, already us concealing costumes.
Actually, given the situation Piggot was in? When she received relatively average branch, and then allowed it to become what we see in canon?Actually, given the situation Piggot is in? PRT ENE's competence level is actually high.
She's been de facto cut off, stuck in a situation where she's in a command that's been allowed to be corrupted, and has an insane ratio of capes to deal with. The fact she managed to keep it floating, shows she's actually very competent.
Just when you're neck deep in alligators, you really have problems.
That's why I said I don't think S9 would target regular camps often.Presumes he knows that the camps exists, weren't we talking about it? From what little canon, and taking wiki/wog with a heavy grain of salt, he wants glamour and challenge. Killing kids, won't get the latter, neh? Presuming he knows. (And alas, the voters on SB killed that option. Wimps!)
Good point.Except: "What else do you want?" That's the deal making I'm pointing out. PRT might have been presented with a list of demands, and the camp is *the least bad* option (or most perfered), to pick from.
Every law pre-Scion, yes. Not "since".Under what law? Every law since pre Scion intentionally makes medical information privileged.
HIPPA is just the latest in that trend. Doctors would have legal obligations not to. Not the reverse (I actually had to learn this for my job, scary, no?) I'd hate to be the hospital that told the cops that, because the lawsuit would be seriously unfun.
That's all I asked about. Exact consequences of it may vary, it would depend on many factors, including pure random. But consequences would be, and world would be different, even if a little.
Not exactly. I just think they only self absorbed when there's nothing they want to get. And real superpowers, that they know they can get somehow, would make fine 'carrot' for big part of them.You see them as far less self absorbed brats. (Maybe it's I deal with a fair bit). Now, that's being a bit unfair, I'll admit, but from my own memories, and what I see every day?
I thought you make them as example, not as list. You seems to forgot a good part of parahumans, then. Grue, Clockblocker, Sere, Kaiser, Kreig, Faultline, Oni Lee, Bakuda, just who came to mind immediately, who done at least better job than Skitter, some of them - better than all three.I listed the parahumans with the most headache to tear apart, and that's Parian, then Shadow Stalker. If Skitter covered her hair, she'd have come dammed close, as well
Look, what I'm talking here, is basically same issue I suspected about your "more people know about Trigger Events" AU.My note about Clark Kent here applies. People who want to find most IDs, can and will, but as I noted above, a fair bit don't, even those who have the knack. There are a fair bit of dumbshit parahumans, let's be honest, in canon. I actually agree with the cops and robbers speech Sarah/Lisa gave in canon. It makes sense, it's what would likely happen, to some extent (and honored about as much in reality as it is in Worm...) Add in the 'PR" of PRT, you'd see a lot of things that we'd consider idiot balls, happen, for vaild and good reasons. (I'd recommend Glenn's discussion about this subject in "The Taste of Peaches" by Grouders10, for some thinking on it, that I tend to agree with).
Was it a *relatively* average? Citations from Worm, please if you're going to say that. Even conceding that, to remain 'relatively' average she'd have needed support. Canon has her de facto cut off. Her situation was not one (she's out numbered by the frigging Nazis, much less the rest in canon). This isn't to say she could have done better, mind you (there's several things I'd have done, in her case, and at least one of which she should have been able to do even de facto denied parahuman assets by PRT HQ.). The problem is, once again, Wildbow spent time describing the here and now, but in a lot of cases, not what came before. It's even pointed out (and given Amy's age, in canon, the PRT was around then), that Marquis did more to protect the city than they did.Actually, given the situation Piggot was in? When she received relatively average branch, and then allowed it to become what we see in canon?
Well, I'm not willing to engage with that particular topic, I'm not hate her enough to spend hours of my life compiling "Piggot's fuckups compendum" or something.
Presuming they know, concede. If as pointed out, it was a sop that rarely gets used? How'd the S9 know?That's why I said I don't think S9 would target regular camps often.
And why I said they likely to targer 'Wards" camp - would make big news, and exactly the kind of "challenge" he looking for - something that may cause some troubles, but he confident he can handle. Also, easy to goad other S9 members into it, unlike killing 'mundane' kids.
Politics is like that...
NEPEA-5 is arguably, (I can actually see an arugement for it's constitutionality, though I'd not support it, but we just might have an settlement on that question directly soon) constitutional. Or what do you think preference in hiring/etal laws are?Every law pre-Scion, yes. Not "since".
Under what law Birdcage work? Under what law works kill orders? Under what law NEPEA-5 would work in our world? You can't directly compare our world and Earth Bet. Yes, I totally can see law that obliged those medics who know about Triggers to inform PRT about potential Triggers. Maybe, hopefully, without disclosure of private medical information. But not necessarily.
Or to take precautions from being attacked/harmed by a psychotic individual with abilities that they have no idea. (In fact, in your statement, there's arguments that the PRT has that exact duty to do so, for the reason I listed. While police forces do not have a duty to the individual, they have a duty to society.)That's all I asked about. Exact consequences of it may vary, it would depend on many factors, including pure random. But consequences would be, and world would be different, even if a little.
For example, you say "PRT informed medics about Trigger Events". Ok. They informed them why? To make them legally obliged to inform PRT about suspect Triggers.
Fair enough there. What again, amazes me, is there is enough people in canon, in Brokton Bay alone who know about Caldron, that the fact that, oh, Greg Veder didn't buy a vial. Something Wildbow didn't think though himself. I'm pretty sure there's other examples too. Authors missing the ripples of their butterflies (*snickers*, considering one of my current Exalted character's goals is Essence Butterflies...) is something I can understand, and honestly, just these questions helps *clarify* what I was thinking. One thing that Wildbow (either by accident or intent, and if intentional, was so he didn't have to think everything through to this detail) did well was limited viewpoint.There a lot more people who know about Triggers? There will be a lot more of those who want to make it public knowledge (mostly same percentage, yes, but greater number). It will snowballing, even if slowly enough we wouldn't see it in story.
And so on, and so forth.
And I' sadly, saw many authors who didn't accounted for it, making changes without thinking how those changes would change other parts of story.
Not really. You'd be surprised. As I said, I work with teenagers. Either we're the exceptions, or the current (which would include more or less most of BB's) crop lately are some lazy fucks.Not exactly. I just think they only self absorbed when there's nothing they want to get. And real superpowers, that they know they can get somehow, would make fine 'carrot' for big part of them.
Grue... okay, rechecked, his is pretty dammed solid, mostly thought his eyes were exposed, and forgot his power's effect. Kreig and Sere I forgot about. Oni Lee, fails miserably due to the nature of who he is. (but he's not a good example anyways, given his mental state. Is he anything but the mad bomber?.) Bakuda... all things consdiered, I'm not sure I'd use her as an example either way. Odds are she's already blown as is. Kaiser, per his base costume, you should be able to see his eyes. (Though I'd concede speaking though a metal mask likely helps a lot.)I thought you make them as example, not as list. You seems to forgot a good part of parahumans, then. Grue, Clockblocker, Sere, Kaiser, Kreig, Faultline, Oni Lee, Bakuda, just who came to mind immediately, who done at least better job than Skitter, some of them - better than all three.
Look, what I'm talking here, is basically same issue I suspected about your "more people know about Trigger Events" AU.
You say "no, this part of canon is wrong, and I won't use it", and that's ok. But then you use other parts of canon like nothing changed, and that's where I have problem with it.
If canon measures to conceal identities are not enough (and I'm not disagree here), then people would use more. Tattletale, in canon, used enough to be sure she won't be recognized. So, here, at the very least, she would use contact lenses to change her eye color. Push-up bra, and some padding, to change her silhouette. And most likely wig. Even IF she'll go with mostly canon costume. Miss Militia would wear contacts in costume as well. PRT would give lessons about change voice tone, to make it less recognizable. And so on.
When you changing one thing, it often causes chain reaction. Especially when you try to remove idiocy.
Very, very arguably. We don't have much info about that bill (Wildbow smart enough to not give fans text they could tear apart and prove it can't work). But. We know one thing for certain: "Many members of Uppermost found their way to the Protectorate and Wards as a way of avoiding bankruptcy and to manage the fines and fees that followed the bill's passage. - PRT Quest (Anchorage)"NEPEA-5 is arguably, (I can actually see an arugement for it's constitutionality, though I'd not support it, but we just might have an settlement on that question directly soon) constitutional. Or what do you think preference in hiring/etal laws are?
Exactly. Sorry, I should've made my points here more clear.Birdcage... the issue isn't it's nature. It's the lack of ability to get people out before appeals are exhausted.
Well, I'd say quite contrary. Due to not having, basically, any life outside of costume, his civilian ID is rather hard to find out.Oni Lee, fails miserably due to the nature of who he is. (but he's not a good example anyways, given his mental state. Is he anything but the mad bomber?.)
Maybe, but most likely only when lighting is right. Especially if you want to discern color, not only vague shape. And you'd have to be able to, you know, actually look for it, instead of watching for blades sprouted from everywhere around you. So, mostly only during peaceful interactions.Kaiser, per his base costume, you should be able to see his eyes. (Though I'd concede speaking though a metal mask likely helps a lot.)
True, it not just likely, but certainly already known to PRT after they captured her in Cornell. But outside of it? As far as costume goes, it pretty solid - concealing, with opaque goggles and voice changer. We don't know (at least I don't remember it in canon) how she act in her civilian ID (if she even have one), so there's not insignificant chances for mannerism changes. Not even conscious, most likely, but I can see her feeling (and so acting) much more confidently in costume than out of it. Not neccesarily, of course, but not impossible either.Bakuda... all things consdiered, I'm not sure I'd use her as an example either way. Odds are she's already blown as is.
Not missed. It just you brought it first, and I agree about that part, so I didn't commented on it.But, one point I think you missed is I talked about acting. Shifting how you behave is even more important. People will rationalize a LOT 'looks like' if the behavior doesn't match. The downside, is if the behavior patterns match? (And people are fairly good at picking this out) it begins to nag at them.
Then I've misread/misunderstood this part. My apologies.
Arent' all of them? I'm not familiar with alchemcals, maybe they don't have anything like that, but other?(Now, brining the above on point. Solar shit is bullshit, Larceny, Siddie tricks, Sorcery is awesome. THOSE can give you a 100% secure private ID, unless you blow it.)
Not enough information. I can honeslty see how it'd work without being a bill of attainder, ie the contract breeches. Or, they did something stupid, such as contuining to work, while the law was being fought. Whoops. While Force Majure is a thing, no question, it's also an issue of how many contracts did they have, and at what point was fighting it worth it (It costs to invoke it...)Very, very arguably. We don't have much info about that bill (Wildbow smart enough to not give fans text they could tear apart and prove it can't work). But. We know one thing for certain: "Many members of Uppermost found their way to the Protectorate and Wards as a way of avoiding bankruptcy and to manage the fines and fees that followed the bill's passage. - PRT Quest (Anchorage)"
That mean NEPEA-5, somehow, applied retroactively, othervise there wouldn't be fines. That very much not how our laws works. Unless it mean fines from breach of contract(s)? But again, in our world it would be very hard to sue someone for breach of contract when that breach was enforced by government.
Uh, actually, no, while rare, it is legal to do so. It's very limited (and I believe Blasto's Kill Order is pre authorized, not that he has one. And I checked the Wiki, confirms, bit of a difference, means he gets no second chances, if he crosses the line on the kill order) and has only happened rarely, but usually has to be "clear and present danger" type situations.Exactly. Sorry, I should've made my points here more clear.
Same with kill orders. While execution warrants are legal, kill orders may be issued before crime was commited. See Blasto. Nope, that's very much not legal by our standards (afaik).
More like "It's impossible to have a civilian ID if you don't bother..."Well, I'd say quite contrary. Bue to not having, basically, any life outside of costume, his civilian ID is rather hard to find out.
>> Let's just say here, I'm going to disagree, but that's mostly because, again, of personal experience. Or more precisely, you'd be surprised at what you can remember even with a brief glance.Maybe, but most likely only when lighting is right. Especially if you want to discern color, not only vague shape. And you'd have to be able to, you know, actually look for it, instead of watching for blades sprouted from everywhere around you. So, mostly only during peaceful interactions.
Was thinking more that Cornell likely knows, and anyone who wants to do a bit of research could find it. (Admittedly, she's an example of a case where her trigger event was fuck off visible and severely disruptive.)True, it not just likely, but certainly already known to PRT after they captured her in Cornell. But outside of it? As far as costume goes, it pretty solid - concealing, with opaque goggles and voice changer. We don't know (at least I don't remember it in canon) how she act in her civilian ID (if she even have one), so there's not insignificant chances for mannerism changes. Not even conscious, most likely, but I can see her feeling (and so acting) much more confidently in costume than out of it. Not neccesarily, of course, but not impossible either.
Not a problem. It's more that this makes it clear what I'm thinking, not only to the readers, but at times, myself. I tend to process a lot of data, conclude, but not really spell out loud to myself, the logic chains, unless pushed to do so.Not missed. It just you brought it first, and I agree about that part, so I didn't commented on it.
Then I've misread/misunderstood this part. My apologies.
The Autobots have the best, in a lot of ways. (They can even mask their essence.)Arent' all of them? I'm not familiar with alchemcals, maybe they don't have anything like that, but other?
I know, right? Plus add in Resplendent Destinies...Lunars have shapeshifting, and when that not enough, they can steal someone's face so hard even stars and Destiny would believe this person still alive.
Siderials? They are bullshit on their own right, and have some impressive "that's not me, honest!" Charms. (side note: I love their "out-Coil Coil" Charm: "You know what, actually I turned left instead of right on the last crossroad, and wasn't here in the first place." ).
Abyssals and Infernals, basically, are twisted Solars, and most of their Charms are same - twisted version of Solar's Charm.
Dragon-Blooded... Okay, I don't remember anything really impressive in term of alternate identities. Though maybe I just forget it - hven't played Exalted for a long time.
Hey there~
Soooo. I just found this and interested in reading/voting/other stuff.
Opening author statement says there're 2(?): versions of the quest or at least it looks like that to me, since SB and QQ versions seem to start differently and have different lengths.
Which do I read? Are they actually the same and I need new glasses?
Halp plz.
I know, but we have work with what we have, unless someone will go and poke Wildbow for clarifications.Not enough information. I can honeslty see how it'd work without being a bill of attainder, ie the contract breeches. Or, they did something stupid, such as contuining to work, while the law was being fought. Whoops. While Force Majure is a thing, no question, it's also an issue of how many contracts did they have, and at what point was fighting it worth it (It costs to invoke it...)
We can see that they fought it before it passed, and then either adapted, or keeled. But "NEPEA-5 was passed, and Uppermost disbanded" suggest they disbanded directly after it passed, not indefinite time after.In 1998, Uppermost asked the PRT for assistance in managing the NEPEA-5 bill, which sought to curtail parahuman involvement in business and media, and was arguably targeted directly at Uppermost.[20]
After a great deal of consideration, the PRT's head office turned down the request for assistance. NEPEA-5 was passed, and Uppermost disbanded.[21] Many former members of Uppermost joined either the Protectorate or Wards to manage the fines and fees that followed the bill's passage and avoid bankruptcy.[22]
However, Uppermost's core group took a different course, with the support of outside investors.[23] They divided themselves, and set up their own businesses within the new laws, while keeping in contact outside the PRT's and public's knowledge.[24] By the time this became apparent, the members had combined assets, employees and businesses as a loose confederation, under the banner new group dubbed the Elite, quintupling Uppermost at its peak.
That's fair, but, depend on how big visor slot he usually have, and how far it from his face. Quite possible, you can only see his eyes with right lighting. Either bright but diffused light, without clear source that would create shadows, or light directed directly into helmet visor slot.Let's just say here, I'm going to disagree, but that's mostly because, again, of personal experience. Or more precisely, you'd be surprised at what you can remember even with a brief glance.
Yep. I mean her costume (and, maybe mannerism - we don't know about it) are rather good at hiding her identity. Not that her identity are well hidden.Was thinking more that Cornell likely knows, and anyone who wants to do a bit of research could find it. (Admittedly, she's an example of a case where her trigger event was fuck off visible and severely disruptive.)
Fines are tricky legally. They aren't just criminal, they're also part of contracts. It could be that Uppercrust had a shitton of contracts. While, as you pointed out, Force Majure would void those, bluntly? it really depends on how much the other side wants to fight the clause, and that also costs money. Its' quite possible that the contractors simply waved their lawyers, and lesser amounts were settled on. There's also (and unfortunately this is legal, since 1935 to large extent) Uppercrust may have had to refund payments, due to NEAPA in primus outlawing their products.I know, but we have work with what we have, unless someone will go and poke Wildbow for clarifications.
So, from "Elite" page:
We can see that they fought it before it passed, and then either adapted, or keeled. But "NEPEA-5 was passed, and Uppermost disbanded" suggest they disbanded directly after it passed, not indefinite time after.
Then again, when we remember Canary case, that's possible sues about contract breaches looked like this:
"I can't provide Something, because it against the law now!
Don't care, you filthy parahuman scum. Guilty!"
We see one example of a legal, Parahuman run business. I'd say this: I think it was aimed not at parahumans, it was aimed at Tinkers. Considering as you say (and I agree, and this is something I'm wondering how the hell to work with Exalted), it's either an anticompete bill (oddly enough this in itself, if that's it's directed intent and wording, is unconstitutional) or an leveling bill (ie, exisce/tarriffs/regulations to level the field) Which... is, actually constitutional.Also, we can guess that unlike fanon usually state it, NEPEA-5 seems to prevent parahuman cooperation in business, rather than involvement at all.
edit: Or, at least, cooperating parahumans are hit harder by it than working alone.
Too many factors, yes. the Wiki picture is "WTF? That'd not work."That's fair, but, depend on how big visor slot he usually have, and how far it from his face. Quite possible, you can only see his eyes with right lighting. Either bright but diffused light, without clear source that would create shadows, or light directed directly into helmet visor slot.
Unless you have enhanced vision, that is.
Yep. I mean her costume (and, maybe mannerism - we don't know about it) are rather good at hiding her identity. Not that her identity are well hidden.
First: "Uppermost's core group took a different course, with the support of outside investors.[23] They divided themselves, and set up their own businesses within the new laws, while keeping in contact outside the PRT's and public's knowledge" from Elite page I quoted earlier.We see one example of a legal, Parahuman run business. I'd say this: I think it was aimed not at parahumans, it was aimed at Tinkers. Considering as you say (and I agree, and this is something I'm wondering how the hell to work with Exalted), it's either an anticompete bill (oddly enough this in itself, if that's it's directed intent and wording, is unconstitutional) or an leveling bill (ie, exisce/tarriffs/regulations to level the field) Which... is, actually constitutional.
Parian's power is a cloth TK. She does tailoring and fashion desgin. If NEAPA is meant to remove the advantage parahuman powers grant in a business, she's a prime example of who the bill targeted.
Which is why either I have to assume that Piggot A: made the rational call not to poke sleeping dogs, or B: the law does something different.
We know she produces their trademark foam for PRT, but then again - for PRT, not for sale. Outside of that? I can't recall any canon mention of Dragontech or anything similar.As for Dragon and Dragontech, I can't recall if that's fanon or not.
Which only leads me to consider the bill *not* intended by Cauldron. Since, the idea of a parahuman army was theirs (one of theirs, for example, though I think they put more stock on a silver bullet).First: "Uppermost's core group took a different course, with the support of outside investors.[23] They divided themselves, and set up their own businesses within the new laws, while keeping in contact outside the PRT's and public's knowledge" from Elite page I quoted earlier.
That mean they had much more problem as group, than individuals. So, as I said "NEPEA-5 seems to prevent parahuman cooperation in business, rather than involvement at all. Or, at least, cooperating parahumans are hit harder by it than working alone."
Outside inventors are Cauldron, btw.
She still (as above) got paid for her work, with her powers, which leads to indicate some fanon (more or less, the idea that NEPEA was aimed at putting all parahumans into the protectorate was false) ideas were wrong. And the note above about Amy.Second: Parian shop and/or designer work, iirc, is fanon. She study fashion, yes. As Sabah. But as Parian she only run puppet shows, to promote various business on Boardwalk.
Again, iirc.
Pretty much what my memories think. Is there a Dragontech company? Would make sense, but there is no mention. But, in this case, it makes sense, and with the way I've decided NEPEA had to work to avoid getting tossed, it's quite likely it does. If I've mentioned it, then it does, if I haven't, eh, I'll push that decision off for a while. (It'd also depend on if NEPEA had a clone in Canada, too, come to think of it...)We know she produces their trademark foam for PRT, but then again - for PRT, not for sale. Outside of that? I can't recall any canon mention of Dragontech or anything similar.
Yeah, I found out that. As for legal status, see informational. Now, will that change? *whistles innocenlty* I'm not making Taylor's choices the only driver of all events.About legal status of Exalted - interesting question, and I think it hightly depend from how much politicists know about their potential with social-fu (i.e. Performance, Socialize, Bureaucracy, etc). I can see bill that prohibits them from holding any public office, for example.
P.S. NEPEA, not NEAPA.
Not necessarily. Maybe they used it to transform largely peaceful group into both larger, and much more active and prone to fighting.Which only leads me to consider the bill *not* intended by Cauldron. Since, the idea of a parahuman army was theirs (one of theirs, for example, though I think they put more stock on a silver bullet).
Toybox are black market organization, they aren't operate within the law, just like Elite. And they are, supposedly, even harder to pin down than Elite cells, because they don't hold any territory. PRT and Protectorate simply don't have enough resources to spare to deal with them.and actually explain why Toybox's sales didn't get nailed by and large by anyone.
Doubt it.Not necessarily. Maybe they used it to transform largely peaceful group into both larger, and much more active and prone to fighting.
Bzzt. Three letters if they *really* wanted them down and done: IRS. That doesn't wash. The general way to deal with *that* type of organization, is nail it's funding. So, it's not black market, it's grey.Toybox are black market organization, they aren't operate within the law, just like Elite. And they are, supposedly, even harder to pin down than Elite cells, because they don't hold any territory. PRT and Protectorate simply don't have enough resources to spare to deal with them.
That's part of the probelm, yes.While situation in BB is (one of) most severe case(s), hero to villain ratio in general are 1:2. And that counts all independent heroes, corporate teams and, I think, vigilantes who PRT doesn't officially acknowledge as heroes. They are always outnumbered, and can only do anything because villains fight each other too, unlike heroes who (most of time) won't target other heroes.
In our world? Yes. But Earth Bet is much worse economically, so there much more people who does some odd jobs to keep afloat, without any regular income. Even in better places than BB. So, it much harder to notice them, unless they'd start to throw a lot of money around.Bzzt. Three letters if they *really* wanted them down and done: IRS. That doesn't wash. The general way to deal with *that* type of organization, is nail it's funding. So, it's not black market, it's grey.
If IRS could do shit in Worm, there wouldn't be Elite, for starters.Honestly Numberman was a hero really fighting the evil IRS, solving taxes, real Robinhood.
In our world? Yes. But Earth Bet is much worse economically, so there much more people who does some odd jobs to keep afloat, without any regular income. Even in better places than BB. So, it much harder to notice them, unless they'd start to throw a lot of money around.
They funding? They mostly sell to villains. Also, you forgetting about Number Man:
If IRS could do shit in Worm, there wouldn't be Elite, for starters.