Safe For Work Worm Ideas thread

[jcogginsa]

Aw, Crap the Worm/DC/Marvel fic has updated

 

[Ack]

Story concept:

Greg Veder triggers into the cheesiest, most implausibly broken superhero you can imagine. But even with All Teh Powerzzz, he still sucks at being a superhero. He gathers around himself a bunch of other equally inept superheroes to form a team called The Greater Good. Yeah, their battle cry is "For the Greater Good!" (and yes, I've used this before).

So this would be one part parody, three parts crack, as the Greater Good bumbles around Brockton Bay, trying to fight villains and solve crimes, getting it wrong all the time, and occasionally accidentally doing something right.

I'm imagining that one aspect of his power is that he has to shout out a catchphrase in order to use any of his powers. Such as "Up, up, and away!" in order to activate his flying. And while shouting "Take that, you villain!" allows him to deliver a punch that would flatten a building, he has to shout it before he swings the punch, thus warning them what's about to happen.

Anyway, anyone who wants can grab this concept and run with it.

 

[OverReactionGuy]

Started up a poll to help me decide what one of my Worm SIs I should start up now. It's in my storytime thread and the link is in my sig.

Choices are as follows:

1. Oh Joy- My kaleidoscope CYOA SI Where I am Emma.

2. Hunters in Shadows- My CYOA SI where I am Sophia with her power and the power of ninja.

3. A Simple Thief- My CYOA SI where I am Madison with the mad talent to steal anything.

4. Queen of Ghost- My CYOA SI where I am Tayler Hebert with the powers of jailbroke QA and GU combined!
5. Neko Dee Neko- My SI where I am dropped into Worm as a catgirl. Also the only not a CYOA SI listed.

Their oneshots are also all in my story time thread.

 

[evildice]

1. Oh Joy- My kaleidoscope CYOA SI Where I am Emma.

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This one, except maybe a less-broken power, or a less-broken interpretation of that power.

 

[OverReactionGuy]

This one, except maybe a less-broken power, or a less-broken interpretation of that power.

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Already put some limits it honestly. So I probably wont unbreak it further. Given that my enemy is going to be Scion, I kinda need it at it's current power level my interpretation puts it at.

Though you might want to head to my storytime thread and vote for it. Here is a link to it if it's needed. link

 

[Guile]

Already put some limits it honestly. So I probably wont unbreak it further. Given that my enemy is going to be Scion, I kinda need it at it's current power level my interpretation puts it at.

Though you might want to head to my storytime thread and vote for it. Here is a link to it if it's needed. link

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Does the opponent have to be Scion? Any fanfic with him in it seems to devolve into biggatons.

 

[SwiftRosenthal]

Does the opponent have to be Scion? Any fanfic with him in it seems to devolve into biggatons.

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Agreed.

Worm CYOAs have such a bad reputation because they seem easy to write, so everyone tries it regardless of skill level, and then the vast majority of them collapse into biggatons and wish-fulfillment because they aren't actually easy to write.

The most elegant solution to this is to do away with all of the big canon antagonists: Scion, Cauldron, Endbringers, S9, Coil, Echidna. Ignore them, butterfly them away, keep them offscreen, whatever it takes. Then come up with a new set of badguys and/or major crisis (this is what scares the newbies into sticking with canon curbstomps) and surprise the readers with something they've never seen before.

Most of the top-tier Worm fics that aren't CYOA SIs do this as a matter of course: Cope, Maharal, Yer a Witch, Atonement, Valkyrie Cross, Firefly, Manager, etc. (notes, OTOH, gets away with 'rehashing' canon in Cenotaph/Wake/Legacy because he's just that good.)

 

[OverReactionGuy]

Does the opponent have to be Scion? Any fanfic with him in it seems to devolve into biggatons.

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-shrugs-

Kinda have to blame Wilbow for that one. He's basically the final boss lurking the the background that my SI would know about. But would do nothing about since trying right away would kill her and probably every human in all the dimensions Scion locked.

Honestly I'm hoping I have enough character conflict because Emma will be OP, there is no way around that. But the power isn't going to be everything the story is about.

Though this all depends if it gets the most votes, and Neko is currently winning with about a 4 vote lead.

 

[Drak4806]

Does the opponent have to be Scion? Any fanfic with him in it seems to devolve into biggatons.

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Just have him die off screen or something.

 

[Guile]

-shrugs-

Kinda have to blame Wilbow for that one. He's basically the final boss lurking the the background that my SI would know about. But would do nothing about since trying right away would kill her and probably every human in all the dimensions Scion locked.

Honestly I'm hoping I have enough character conflict because Emma will be OP, there is no way around that. But the power isn't going to be everything the story is about.

Though this all depends if it gets the most votes, and Neko is currently winning with about a 4 vote lead.

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The graduation to the cosmic level is almost universally seen as a bad move on Wildbow's part, though.

An SI given a more mediocre power would have to find a way to work around it, or not fight Scion at all and leave him to the events of canon.

 

[TanaNari]

Yeah, but it's part of the Worm multiverse. Ignoring it is just lazy writing.

 

[OverReactionGuy]

The graduation to the cosmic level is almost universally seen as a bad move on Wildbow's part, though.


An SI given a more mediocre power would have to find a way to work around it, or not fight Scion at all and leave him to the events of canon.

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Meh.

Not possible for the Emma SI since she doesn't have a mediocre power and the fact that this is before Emma even started bullying Taylor, so the events of canon would not happen. In that way at all.

Honestly, I really do not feel like changing that or scrapping everything I thought up on this SI and rewriting Oh, Joy.

 

[Ragnarok]

Yeah, but it's part of the Worm multiverse. Ignoring it is just lazy writing.

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Not really. Have Cauldron take him out off-screen. Yes, this is ascribing more competence to Cauldron than they actually have, but it gets rid of the railroading that Scion being around will cause, and if you have a mutual kill, no chance of the walking plot device that is Contessa potentially ruin your story. In addition, I have not seen a single fic that's momentum is not killed when an Endbringer shows up, so if Eidolon dies as well, then the Endbringers go dormant like canon.

 

[Jack of Olives]

3. A Simple Thief- My CYOA SI where I am Madison with the mad talent to steal anything.

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My vote's 3. Although, that may or may not be do to excessive watching of Carmen Sandiego as a kid.

 

[TanaNari]

In addition, I have not seen a single fic that's momentum is not killed when an Endbringer shows up

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I can name a few. The rest, I blame on shit writers.

 

[Ragnarok]

Creator bias eliminates yours from your list. That goes for any author; I'm not singling you out.

 

[OverReactionGuy]

My vote's 3. Although, that may or may not be do to excessive watching of Carmen Sandiego as a kid.

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xD

Good enough reason.

 

[SwiftRosenthal]

Creator bias eliminates yours from your list. That goes for any author; I'm not singling you out.

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Amelia had an Endbringer problem; it was just a different one from usual. Every battle against an original-creation Endbringer, after the first one, was terrible. Pointlessly bleak, even story-ruining when combined with all the other flaws present in the fic. (TanaNari, you're lying to yourself if you don't think your fic has flaws. Every story does.)

I very nearly quit the story after during the Paris zombies battle, and again after the let's-annihilate-BB one. The sunk cost fallacy was the primary reason I stayed on as long as I did.

 

[TanaNari]

Creator bias eliminates yours from your list. That goes for any author; I'm not singling you out.

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I agree. Although honestly dealing with the Endbringers, while *necessary* and *plot essential* for my fic, and I worked in all kinds of stuff I'm proud of with that section, was not my favorite part.

There's a reason I'm keeping Price so low level, and the COSMIC HORROR!!! is at least half of that. It was a fun place to visit (and I may do so again, especially when I get around to Midara and Path Magic), but I wouldn't want to live there.


So, in addition to me not invoking Amelia (though I support others' rights to do so- hint, hint)... I'll take it further and eliminate the "silly" fics that are either crack or for fun or grossly overpowered... and anything kicking the darker tones and drama out... like, say, Silencio and Accelerator and that one Supergirl Taylor fic... who handled the EBs in profoundly dismissive ways, and thus don't count.

Although Silencio is a fairly close call.


After disqualifying *all of that*... I am left with two.


Let's start strong with Weaver Nine. It reached a satisfactorily awesome climax during the Leviathan battle. It functionally made the Leviathan fight the whole plot of the story, in fact, and god it was a ride and a half. It may or may not some day have a sequel maybe, but it sure as FUCK didn't lose any steam. Best EB story ever.

And finish stronger with the Memorials trilogy- which also had my favorite Slaughterhouse Nine conflict ever. And is promising to have my favorite Empire 88 conflict. And seriously, Memorials is better than Worm itself, how could you forget that one?

EDIT: Oh, right, Memoirs of a Simurgh Victim. Also awesome. Though certainly not as strong as either of the above.

The sunk cost fallacy was the primary reason I stayed on as long as I did.

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*pats* There-there, I'm sure the butthurt will go away some day.

But seriously, YOU left because I didn't let Tattletale and Taylor be all lovey-dovey, and got mad at me when I dismissed your complaints. As usual, I was a dick about it (I am nothing if not honest and self aware). Don't try and pretend otherwise.

 

[jcogginsa]

May i ask how my fic (Aw, Crap) handles an Endbringer fight?

 

[TanaNari]

Yours is the DC/Marvel/Worm fusion, right? I don't like fusions, so I don't read them.


But you can absolutely play it straight. Marvel has its Galactus and whatever that dude with the super armor was and the Skrull invasions and those wraith-things and Hell Itself flooding through New York.

DC has Doomsday and Darseid and Rainbow Lantern Extravoganzas and psychotic alt-universe Kryptonians and alien invasions of more types than I care to count.


Compared to most of those, Endbringers are the smallest bullies on the block.


Remember: ultimately, Worm is a *deconstruction* of the Superhero genre, in much the same way Evangelion is a deconstruction of the Mech genre (why is it that deconstructions always have so much incest and/or rape?).

The Endbringers represent the relatively common "crisis crossover" arcs. Notice how they have one attack every four months or so? Haha. Not subtle, Wildbow. Not. Subtle.

 

[Ragnarok]

May i ask how my fic (Aw, Crap) handles an Endbringer fight?

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Not very well.

Yours is the DC/Marvel/Worm fusion, right? I don't like fusions, so I don't read them.


But you can absolutely play it straight. Marvel has its Galactus and whatever that dude with the super armor was and the Skrull invasions and those wraith-things and Hell Itself flooding through New York.

DC has Doomsday and Darseid and Rainbow Lantern Extravoganzas and alien invasions of more types than I care to count.


Compared to most of those, Endbringers are the smallest kids on the block.

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He didn't treat them that way. It actually started off fairly decently, some of the DC/Marvel characters dying, but he was using the weaker, animated versions. No problem with that. The problem is he didn't treat the settings equally. None of the major Worm capes died off, just the same meaningless names we saw in canon. Should've killed Bitch or Armsmaster or Glory Girl or someone. Then the Slaughterhoues 9 show up in the middle, something that has never happened during an Endbringer fight, for the express purpose of 'showing' DC and Marvel how "dark" Worm is.

Is "darkboner" a word? Because it should be one.

And TanaNari? I followed your fic for some time before I finally dropped it, and read a lot of the discussion in-between chapters. You can't take criticism. Yes, there was bitching, but there was also legitimate criticism. You equally railed against it all. That doesn't speak kindly of you.

 

[TanaNari]

You can't take criticism

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Sure I can, and have, and do.

but there was also legitimate criticism

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Absolutely, and I was MORE than happy when I got it. When someone pointed at what I did/was doing wrong, why it was wrong, and offered suggestions on how to fix it? That is what legitimate criticism is... and I loved every second of THAT. Actually, they were always my favorite posts because they were the ones I could best use to improve my writing.

It is, sadly, quite rare, but I love it and absorbed it eagerly. Even if I didn't always agree with the opinions of the critic.

 

[Ragnarok]

It is, sadly, quite rare, but I love it and absorbed it eagerly.

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And what about this?

There-there, I'm sure the butthurt will go away some day.


But seriously, YOU left because I didn't let Tattletale and Taylor be all lovey-dovey, and got mad at me when I dismissed your complaints. As usual, I was a dick about it (I am nothing if not honest and self aware). Don't try and pretend otherwise.

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You just provided a great example. He brought up a legitimate issue with the Endbringer fights, namely, that it they are pointlessly bleak. It's not just him, even the most dedicated readers admitted that they skipped over the Endbringer fights because they were so meaningless and dull. You chose to call Swift 'butthurt' and ignored his Endbringer issues to bring up Skittertale for some reason.

Edit: Most people are terrible at criticism. Myself included. But if dozens of people are saying 'this feels wrong', maybe you should take a step back and see if there truly is an issue with what you're writing, but these people are bad at expressing why.

 

[Snake/Eater]

And TanaNari? I followed your fic for some time before I finally dropped it, and read a lot of the discussion in-between chapters. You can't take criticism. Yes, there was bitching, but there was also legitimate criticism. You equally railed against it all. That doesn't speak kindly of you.

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Can you show me a example? I'm curious.

 

[SwiftRosenthal]

But seriously, YOU left because I didn't let Tattletale and Taylor be all lovey-dovey, and got mad at me when I dismissed your complaints. Don't try and pretend otherwise.

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Your unapologetic sinking of the Lisa/Taylor friend-ship was not the only problem I had with Amelia. It was just the final straw. I had all sorts of other problems with the fic before that point, but none of them were bad enough, on their own, to override the sunk cost fallacy.

Then there's the matter of your attitude. I'm not going to say that your allergy to criticism is as severe as PLH's - because it's not - but it is dangerously strong. You're even displaying it in this very thread.

Note that I actually liked the 120-190ish opening chapters at the time. Nowadays, I can barely read one of your posts without wanting to punch you through the Internet. You're actually worse than thesevenwielder in this respect.

 

[TanaNari]

He brought up a legitimate issue with the Endbringer fights, namely, that it they are pointlessly bleak.

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Ah, but that is hardly a legitimate issue. It was the tone I was setting, very much deliberately. They were absolutely bleak, but that was the nature of that part of the story. It was, for lack of a better immediate descriptor, the tone of a war story. Because that was the type of story I was going for during those arcs.

In other arcs, I dipped my toes into film noir, murder mysteries, romantic comedy, drama and moral quandary. For the Endbringer portion, it was a war story.

I think I captured it fine. Not perfectly... I've occasionally had a single moment- even a whole chapter- that I felt was absolutely perfect, but certainly never a whole arc. But still, if that's not the story a given person wants to read... then they have the right to not read. They don't have a right to demand I write a different story.

Because complaining about that is *complaining*, not *criticism*. The appropriate response is either to keep reading or stop reading. Complaining at an author for writing the story that they want to write, instead of the one you want to read is not criticism.

call Swift 'butthurt'

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Well, what do you call this:

Nowadays, I can barely read one of your posts without wanting to punch you through the Internet.

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If not the basic definition of butthurt?

ignored his Endbringer issues

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Because they're matters of *taste*, not matters of skill, story execution, or mechanisms to achieve the author's goal better than the author achieved. If swift could do any of the latter- explain to me how to set a strong tone of hopelessness and the steady ravages and trauma of constant conflict on the human psyche- better than what I was doing? Then that would be criticism.


As opposed to everything he says reminding me of this.

bring up Skittertale for some reason

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Because this is where he threw a hissy fit and I told him I didn't give a fuck and he started complaining all the time in every thread I happen to mention anything about Amelia in.

 

[jcogginsa]

Not very well.


He didn't treat them that way. It actually started off fairly decently, some of the DC/Marvel characters dying, but he was using the weaker, animated versions. No problem with that. The problem is he didn't treat the settings equally. None of the major Worm capes died off, just the same meaningless names we saw in canon. Should've killed Bitch or Armsmaster or Glory Girl or someone. Then the Slaughterhoues 9 show up in the middle, something that has never happened during an Endbringer fight, for the express purpose of 'showing' DC and Marvel how "dark" Worm is.

Is "darkboner" a word? Because it should be one.

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So Vista isn't a major cape?

Also, I did not introduce the Slaughterhouse nine just to show how dark Worm is. They were part of the plot before the DC and Marvel characters were.

Yours is the DC/Marvel/Worm fusion, right? I don't like fusions, so I don't read them.


But you can absolutely play it straight. Marvel has its Galactus and whatever that dude with the super armor was and the Skrull invasions and those wraith-things and Hell Itself flooding through New York.

DC has Doomsday and Darseid and Rainbow Lantern Extravoganzas and psychotic alt-universe Kryptonians and alien invasions of more types than I care to count.


Compared to most of those, Endbringers are the smallest bullies on the block.


Remember: ultimately, Worm is a *deconstruction* of the Superhero genre, in much the same way Evangelion is a deconstruction of the Mech genre (why is it that deconstructions always have so much incest and/or rape?).

The Endbringers represent the relatively common "crisis crossover" arcs. Notice how they have one attack every four months or so? Haha. Not subtle, Wildbow. Not. Subtle.

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Not sure i'd call it a fusion, as both DC and Marvel are a separate universe that crosses over via dimensional travel.

 

[SwiftRosenthal]

That bleakness that you aimed for is not what you hyped the story as. You advertised the story as a fixfic. You did not write a fixfic. If you personally define fixfic as something other than what it's commonly understood to mean, you're wrong because that's not how marketing works.

(Wildbow made almost the exact same mistake. Worm itself is hyped as a superhero story, but is really a cosmic horror world out to kill everyone's hope forever.)

Well, what do you call this:

If not the basic definition of butthurt.

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I wouldn't be so critical if you were polite. Politeness costs you nothing and you refuse to use it.

Because this is where he threw a hissy fit and I told him I didn't give a fuck and he started complaining all the time in every thread I happen to mention anything about Amelia in.

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I don't think you understand what "the straw that broke the camel's back" means.

 

[Ragnarok]

Damn. You were compared negatively to thesevenwielder. The irony is delicious.

But seriously. AFAIK t7w doesn't have an account on this forum. Let's try and avoid bringing people from other boards into these sorts of arguments, hmm?

Ah, but that is hardly a legitimate issue. It was the tone I was setting, very much deliberately. They were absolutely bleak, but that was the nature of that part of the story. It was, for lack of a better immediate descriptor, the tone of a war story. Because that was the type of story I was going for during those arcs.

In other arcs, I dipped my toes into film noir, murder mysteries, romantic comedy, drama and moral quandary. For the Endbringer portion, it was a war story.

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The thing is, war stories have the occasional up moments, which were nonexistent in those so-called 'war stories.'

Well, what do you call this:

If not the basic definition of butthurt?

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Your attitude can get grating. Irritation and butthurt are two different things.

Because they're matters of *taste*, not matters of skill, story execution, or mechanisms to achieve the author's goal better than the author achieved. If swift could do any of the latter- explain to me how to set a strong tone of hopelessness and the steady ravages and trauma of constant conflict on the human psyche- better than what I was doing? Then that would be criticism.

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I repeat, many people are awful at criticism. Look at the thousands of people who rant about Twilight. Most don't say anything about how to improve the writing, just that there is something wrong with it. Just because they can't write a thesis about it doesn't make their criticism any less valid.

Because this is where he threw a hissy fit and I told him I didn't give a fuck and he started complaining all the time in every thread I happen to mention anything about Amelia in.

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Perhaps you shouldn't cherry-pick arguments. He said this was the "straw that broke the camel's back." And I repeat: your attitude can get grating. The reason he rants against you and Amelia is that any time you do mention that story, it's to sing its praises about how you think it did this or that better than other fics. He's far from the only one who gets irritated with it.