Scheming Princess Quest

[Pipeman]

I'd seriously reconsider the dreadis route.
I mean, sure, magic always has its attraction, but the simple fact of the matter is that that course of action will not actually ingratiate us with any of the mages.

We're going to be pushed to be the combat mage, while our brother will be the traditional pure mage with the favour of our uncle, the same retainers we are paying for with points and the benefits of an Auspicious Birth.
In this nation the female goddess is hardly going to hinder our brother and the powerful archmages will be far more inclined to support him, given that he, unlike us, is a proper mage like them and thanks to all the advantages that we have to share, odds are he'll be a rather impressive mage at that.

Ultimately the choices don't really synergize with the nation at all on top of spending 60 of our points in the very first part of chargen.

 

[Adyen]

I'd seriously reconsider the dreadis route.
I mean, sure, magic always has its attraction, but the simple fact of the matter is that that course of action will not actually ingratiate us with any of the mages.

We're going to be pushed to be the combat mage, while our brother will be the traditional pure mage with the favour of our uncle, the same retainers we are paying for with points and the benefits of an Auspicious Birth.
In this nation the female goddess is hardly going to hinder our brother and the powerful archmages will be far more inclined to support him, given that he, unlike us, is a proper mage like them and thanks to all the advantages that we have to share, odds are he'll be a rather impressive mage at that.

Ultimately the choices don't really synergize with the nation at all on top of spending 60 of our points in the very first part of chargen.

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There's also the opposite: A mage based may be more willing to accept a ruler who is able to use magic - and it's entirely possible that we can pick up a bonus for us being a better mage and him unable or have difficulty using magic.

My option also pretty much means that the assassins will come again - meaning that with us being able to better defend ourselves with magic, it's likely that the brother WILL get assassinated at some point in the future if we drop a penalty on him about him being able to use magic or fight.

 

[Pipeman]

There's also the opposite: A mage based may be more willing to accept a ruler who is able to use magic - and it's entirely possible that we can pick up a bonus for us being a better mage and him unable or have difficulty using magic.

My option also pretty much means that the assassins will come again - meaning that with us being able to better defend ourselves with magic, it's likely that the brother WILL get assassinated at some point in the future if we drop a penalty on him about him being able to use magic or fight.

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My issue is not with the mage nation in general (though I do admit that it's my least favourite), my issue is that the particular configuation of Plan Dreadis is kind of a mess.
It makes our uncle favour our brother, makes him push us into a mage-knight position that isn't as respeceted by the archmages as our brothers pure mage position, it gives our brother access to the very same awesome tutors we'd have so he'd be almost guaranteed to be powerful enough of a mage to capitalize on said advantage in reputation, the Goddess perk is almost a waste given how secular the mages are and the Auspicious Birth is likely going to lead to our brother being cemented further as a great up and coming archmage and us either being viewed as his foil that's supposed to do all the menial soldiering stuff or as the one standing in his way if we're too openly antagonistic, neither of which is going to help much with getting anyone on his side.

The mage nation has some definite advantages, but that build doesn't play to those at all on top of spending a large mojority of our points already.

 

[inverted_helix]

There's also the opposite: A mage based may be more willing to accept a ruler who is able to use magic - and it's entirely possible that we can pick up a bonus for us being a better mage and him unable or have difficulty using magic.

My option also pretty much means that the assassins will come again - meaning that with us being able to better defend ourselves with magic, it's likely that the brother WILL get assassinated at some point in the future if we drop a penalty on him about him being able to use magic or fight.

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The issue is that Dreadis plan leads to the brother being the better mage. Since the Regent will favor him the tutors will also be directed more to him. Auspicious birth leads to him being better at magic. And again the Regent favoring him will mean our magic training will be sabotaged.

It's a recipe for the brother being the better mage which means the nation will favor him over us.

Plus the assassins coming again isn't that big a deal since the Regent dotes on the brother and will protect him and he'll have the Royal Retainers that are loyal only to the throne protecting him because he's the heir.

 

[Adyen]

You'll notice that I didn't vote for his plan and that I'm only concerned about the mage city.

 

[Least Devotee]

[X] The Highlands [0] – A relatively prosperous nation with a strong warrior tradition and a professional army, though its navy is very small. Also very traditional in other ways. Convincing the highlanders to break with tradition and appoint you over your brother will be an uphill battle.
(Necromancy and Demonic magic are banned and Illusion magic is disliked in the Highlands, while Nature magic costs are at half price)

[X] Auspicious Birth [0] – You and your brother were born under auspicious stars. People believe you are both destined for greatness. Your abilities will be better acknowledged, but your brother's claim will also be considered more legitimate.
[X] Mandate of Heaven [0] – Your culture believes that successfully deposing a monarch grants the right to rule. You have only to slay or depose your brother, and you will be hailed as queen! You will not be the only claimant hoping to use this belief, however…
[X] Female Diety [10] – Your religion's god is personified as a woman. This will naturally make a female monarch easier to accept, and ensures your talents are not overlooked or belittled due to your gender.
[X] Lesser Title [20] – The noble inheritance laws of your kingdom are complex, and your family's standing in them is equally difficult for any but a specialist to understand after many generations of marrying back into your own nobility. One of their effects is that even at your young age, you have already inherited a small barony, and hold it in your own right. Its resources are modest, but you are the sole ruler of its lands by law, answering only to the crown.

Parents' Death
[X] Terrible Accident [0] – Foul play was initially suspected, but your mother's carriage crash did seem to simply be the result of a panicked horse and a road system that was perhaps not as well-funded as it should be. Your father wasted away over the next few years, and in the end grief and illness took him.

[X] Neither [-10] – The Regent sees his lost brother each time he looks upon either of you, and cannot bear it. You are both inferior copies of something precious and lost to him, and suffer for it.

[X] Liberal [10] – A more liberal Regent will allow you to undertake any training, even those not generally open to a woman. These range from the war-like to the magical to the merely unusual.

[X] Hands-off [10] – Your uncle's training was martial rather than political. His focus is pointed outwards, his gaze set upon foreign powers that might seek to take your kingdom from you in this time of upheaval. Affairs of state have suffered somewhat, but at least your study time is largely your own.

 

[doomlord9]

This is reminding me alot of the trailer for Long Live the Queen. I don't own it yet but it looks somewhat similar.

How would that work as a quest though? Hardcore mode where bad decisions result in game over and starting over or maybe at a voted on save point?

 

[Guile]

This is reminding me alot of the trailer for Long Live the Queen. I don't own it yet but it looks somewhat similar.

How would that work as a quest though? Hardcore mode where bad decisions result in game over and starting over or maybe at a voted on save point?

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The inspirations for this include Long Live the Queen, Embric of Wulfhammer's Castle, and a CYOA from 4chan. As well as every princess I've ever read about that won her throne through guile and craft and planning rather than love and friendship.

Depending on subsequent votes, you can produce a kinder and gentler Princess... but only to a point.

 

[Wutnhammer]

love and friendship.

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I feel like we should seduce our uncle.

 

[Darkened]

The issue is that Dreadis plan leads to the brother being the better mage. Since the Regent will favor him the tutors will also be directed more to him. Auspicious birth leads to him being better at magic. And again the Regent favoring him will mean our magic training will be sabotaged.

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We'll both have access to tutors, our brother will ALSO have to deal with an overbearing regent deciding what he should study AND auspicious birth favors both of us equally.

"Sabotage our training" is a ridiculous conclusion. Have you even read what overbearing actually says? Because the description is that regent tries to help us and wants us to succeed in life. How does that lead you to "sabotages our training"?

The regent favoring our brother means he'll be hard to turn against him, genuinely push for him to succeed the throne and largely ignore his mistakes while not doing the same for us. It doesn't mean he's going to hate us and want us to fail, since the entire gist of overbearing is the opposite of that. It might be less freedom to choose our own path, but we can still work around that via careful ally selection.

Besides which, our brother is guaranteed to have a dark secret. To an extent this is going to be a toss up between risk to our brother and our brother being more dangerous. One option, looking at the countries and the genre, will almost certainly be demonology. Regents+tutors (Experts on magic) being around will mean he has to spend more time hiding that secret and has less time to train his actual interest, transforming whatever bonus he gets into a weakness.

Tutors+Demonology might mean that one of our tutors is secretly his teacher in the art. Exposing his ally there, easy enough to find, would really weaken his position, sabotage his own training and be the kind of thing that even the uncle who wants him to succeed would HAVE to act on.


I also really doubt liberal means "female mage knight mcstabby" vs "Okay, she can learn politics instead of embroidery"

 

[inverted_helix]

"Sabotage our training" is a ridiculous conclusion. Have you even read what overbearing actually says? Because the description is that regent tries to help us and wants us to succeed in life. How does that lead you to "sabotages our training"?

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Have you read favors the Prince? That' what's sabotaging our training. Overbearing just means he has more time applied to do it in.

Regents+tutors (Experts on magic) being around will mean he has to spend more time hiding that secret and has less time to train his actual interest, transforming whatever bonus he gets into a weakness.

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+Regent Favors him means he doesn't have to be very secretive about it and can train it really high since he has auspicious birth and experts on magic to help.

Tutors+Demonology might mean that one of our tutors is secretly his teacher in the art. Exposing his ally there, easy enough to find, would really weaken his position, sabotage his own training and be the kind of thing that even the uncle who wants him to succeed would HAVE to act on.

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Who says the Uncle isn't helping him train it?

 

[Darkened]

Have you read favors the Prince? That' what's sabotaging our training. Overbearing just means he has more time applied to do it in.

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I have, I kinda doubt you've read overbearing though.

Overbearing [0] – Your uncle cares, and attempts to ensure your success in life. He does this by ensuring that you are taught all the things a princess should know. The Regent will attempt to dictate your studies as much as he is able, though his agenda will change depending on previous choices.

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Your logic is literally that a trait described as attempting to ensure our success will cause our Uncle to attempt to harm us more. It is an outright contradiction of the text there.

The Prince [-20] – Your uncle has often wished for a son of his own to carry on his legacy. He sees the best in your brother, and pays no mind to the flaws.

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Also, this doesn't say he has anything against us. It just says that he really really likes the idea of a male successor. In all probability this simply makes our Uncle less likely to spot the prince's flaws, which is fine. Because we don't need him to be the one to do so, if all our tutors go public with it. The prince might have an easier time turning our uncle against us as well, but it's unlikely to happen without prompt and nothing whatsoever suggests its the default state.

+Regent Favors him means he doesn't have to be very secretive about it and can train it really high since he has auspicious birth and experts on magic to help.

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It means he gets less cautious about it, and the extent here would depend on how bad demonology would be, but the presence of tutors means he has to be more cautious. Bringing in experts into large positions in our life makes the prince need to work harder to hide his secret.

It's something we know he's willing to kill to hide. I doubt it's going to be something he lets anyone, much less everyone, know.


To all indications, the only reason the prince needs us gone is because we know his dark secret (That the uncle presumably doesn't, because when everyone knows your dark secret, it's not really a secret).

Either A: The uncle is in on it and a co-conspirator, we're fucked anyway, but the traits work against that likelyhood. This is true regardless of who he favors, and the wording on favors the prince strongly suggests that it's far more a penalty to our uncle noticing.

If our uncle isn't in on it, then we want a secret that he CAN'T ignore no matter how much he wants a son, and one that can't be hidden.


As it stands, our brother is against us because we know his secret. Letting out that HE is against us would necessitate a reveal of those circumstances. Ergo he will not do so until either A: He has another excuse to hide the real reason or B: his situation is unshakable and he'll face little questioning or repercussions.

If we openly rebel, he'll have his excuse. If we openly plot rebellion, etc, etc. However, until there's some pretext, the conflict is entirely between two people and whatever personal connections they have that can be trusted.

Likewise, our uncle may be persuaded against us, but favoring the prince simply appears to mean difficulty raised in exposing him and being more likely to take his side in conflicts, NOT actually being our enemy.

 

[Adyen]

Have you read favors the Prince? That' what's sabotaging our training. Overbearing just means he has more time applied to do it in.

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It's more likely that the Princess will be taught "princess-y" things instead of things that would allow us to take the throne.

And... ninja-ed.

 

[Adyen]

As it stands, our brother is against us because we know his secret. Letting out that HE is against us would necessitate a reveal of those circumstances. Ergo he will not do so until either A: He has another excuse to hide the real reason or B: his situation is unshakable and he'll face little questioning or repercussions.

If we openly rebel, he'll have his excuse. If we openly plot rebellion, etc, etc. However, until there's some pretext, the conflict is entirely between two people and whatever personal connections they have that can be trusted.

Likewise, our uncle may be persuaded against us, but favoring the prince simply appears to mean difficulty raised in exposing him and being more likely to take his side in conflicts, NOT actually being our enemy.

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Actually, from what I've read, WE'RE actually the one against him taking the throne because we know his secret. It's entirely possible that we're the 'evil scheming princess' because we 'know' he's not fit for the throne and he's the 'innocent little boy who never thought anyone would hurt a fly'.

 

[Darkened]

Actually, from what I've read, WE'RE actually the one against him taking the throne because we know his secret. It's entirely possible that we're the 'evil scheming princess' because we 'know' he's not fit for the throne and he's the 'innocent little boy who never thought anyone would hurt a fly'.

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Following the early death of your parents, your twin brother is first in line to become king upon his eighteenth birthday. And you suspect he will find you … inconvenient at that time.


You see, you know what he is.

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It's confirmed that we think he'll want us dead 8 years from now when he assumes the throne.

I suspect the truth of this will hinge largely around whatever secret/etc we pick for our brother.

 

[Guile]

Looks like there's some confusion over how Favor, Liberal and Overbearing interact. Probably my fault due to how they're written.

The truth is somewhere in between your different interpretations: Your Uncle does not hate you, but he doesn't really think much about you, at least compared to your brother. Women, amirite guys? He wants you to do well, but that's because it's good for the family and the kingdom. You'll mostly learn the things the Regent thinks you should know, and the things he wants you to learn aren't going to be what a princess is usually taught. Because of his bias, he'll ensure your brother gets the best teachers available, which will be significant thanks to the Valeran Royal Retainers. You'll also get good teachers, but make no mistake: you are the second stringer in his affections.

The level of evil in the Prince (and the Princess) depends a lot on what Dark Secret you guys choose for him. If he's a Demonologist, then the Princess is pretty darned heroic for trying to stand up to him. If she refuses to give the throne to him because he's a practicing homosexual, and what would people think? Then she's a lot less saintly.

 

[Dreadis]

If she refuses to give the throne to him because he's a practicing homosexual, and what would people think? Then she's a lot less saintly.

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Giving the throne to a practicing homosexual is idiotic and just begging for a crisis of succession.

 

[DarkLight140]

Kingdom:
[8] Caelis Valera - Dreadis, Darkened, redaeth, Xicree, inverted_helix, BFldyq, Ct613hulu, Adyen
[4] Highlands - Wutnhammer, Bobs Beard, Cu Roi, Least Devotee
[5] Baruna - DarkLight140, Seventeen, Arkeus, Drak4806, Chibi-Reaper
[2] Callanrod - Pipeman, Jiven

Advantages:
[7] Auspicious Birth, Female Deity, Lesser Title, Royal Retainers [20] - Dreadis, Darkened, redaeth, Pipeman, Xicree, BFldyq, Ct613hulu
[3] Auspicious Birth - Wutnhammer, Bobs Beard, Cu Roi
[3] Auspicious Birth, Mandate of Heaven, Jewelry, Heirloom Treasures - DarkLight140, Seventeen, Arkeus
[1] Auspicious Birth, Jewelry, Royal Retainers [10] - Drak4806
[1] Auspicious Birth, Lesser Title - inverted_helix
[1] Female Deity, Royal Retainers [20] - Jiven
[1] Auspicious Birth, Mandate of Heaven, Female Deity, Jewelry, Lesser Title - Chibi-Reaper
[1] Lesser Title - Adyen
[1] Auspicious Birth, Mandate of Heaven, Female Deity, Lesser Title - Least Devotee

Parents' Death:
[9] Assassination - Wutnhammer, DarkLight140, Seventeen, Arkeus, inverted_helix, Chibi-Reaper, Bobs Beard, Adyen, Cu Roi
[10] Terrible Accident - Dreadis, Darkened, redaeth, Drak4806, Pipeman, Xicree, Jiven, BFldyq, Ct613hulu, Least Devotee
[ ] War Leader's Death
[ ] The Witch's Curse

Regent's Disposition:
[4] You - DarkLight140, Seventeen, Arkeus, inverted_helix
[5] Both - Wutnhammer, Drak4806, Jiven, Bobs Beard, Cu Roi
[3] Neither - Chibi-Reaper, Adyen, Least Devotee
[7] The Prince - Dreadis, Darkened, redaeth, Pipeman, Xicree, BFldyq, Ct613hulu

[9] Traditionalist - Wutnhammer, DarkLight140, Seventeen, Arkeus, inverted_helix, Chibi-Reaper, Bobs Beard, Adyen, Cu Roi
[10] Liberal - Dreadis, Darkened, redaeth, Drak4806, Pipeman, Xicree, Jiven, BFldyq, Ct613hulu, Least Devotee

[13] Overbearing - Dreadis, Wutnhammer, Darkened, redaeth, Pipeman, Xicree, inverted_helix, Jiven, BFldyq, Chibi-Reaper, Ct613hulu, Bobs Beard, Cu Roi
[6] Hands-off - DarkLight140, Seventeen, Arkeus, Drak4806, Adyen, Least Devotee

 

[inverted_helix]

So essentially Royal Retainers is paying 20 points for something that gives more of an advantage to our brother than to us when the Regent favors him since the Regent will give him the best of the bunch and us the second stringers.

 

[Guile]

So essentially Royal Retainers is paying 20 points for something that gives more of an advantage to our brother than to us when the Regent favors him.

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They're a benefit in the event of a peasant uprising or outside invasion, and in time you could probably subvert a few. But yes, the heir apparent gets more use out of them than you in some ways.

 

[Darkened]

We probably, given that total point values are part of the considerations people are planning for, need to take each plan separately rather than the most votes in each category.


As for the regent, I'd very much rather neither (still earns us points, doesn't throw such a big advantage to the prince) but no plan with that's winning because everyone seems to think give our enemy the strongest possible ally is a good way to net a few points when the QM talked about allies being the best set.

As no one seems to have voted neitherand liberal (the ultimate must have), there's no real point to swapping votes at that time save tanking the plan I find least objectionable.

Ideally, I'd love to swap the prince for neither and potentially drop royal retainers down 1 tier to make up the points, but no one's going that route.

 

[Robotninja]

[X]Both

We should study demon magic if we get the chance. Subtle mind control has many, many uses.

 

[Guile]

We probably, given that total point values are part of the considerations people are planning for, need to take each plan separately rather than the most votes in each category.


As for the regent, I'd very much rather neither (still earns us points, doesn't throw such a big advantage to the prince) but no plan with that's winning because everyone seems to think give our enemy the strongest possible ally is a good way to net a few points when the QM talked about allies being the best set.

As no one seems to have voted neitherand liberal (the ultimate must have), there's no real point to swapping votes at that time save tanking the plan I find least objectionable.

Ideally, I'd love to swap the prince for neither and potentially drop royal retainers down 1 tier to make up the points, but no one's going that route.

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You do have between 12 and 24 hours before the next update. There's still time for a come from behind victory, I think.

 

[inverted_helix]

In all honesty I don't think come from behind wins happen in quests much at all. Almost every time one of the first three votes/posts is the winner.

Usually you can boost your chances of your vote winning more in any quest simply by posting faster than any amount of reasoning.

 

[Dreadis]

PLAN DREADIS HAS CHANGED
http://forum.questionablequesting.com/threads/scheming-princess-quest.1016/#post-202219

With Neither instead of the prince and dropped the retainers down a level. Same total point cost either way with 40 left

 

[Darkened]

[X] CHANGED DREADIS

All the yes to this.

In all honesty I don't think come from behind wins happen in quests much at all. Almost every time one of the first three votes/posts is the winner.

Usually you can boost your chances of your vote winning more in any quest simply by posting faster than any amount of reasoning.

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Posting fast helps a lot posting fast with a cogent plan helps more.

Being a big name either on the forum or in that quest's history helps the most.

 

[inverted_helix]

Posting fast helps a lot posting fast with a cogent plan helps more.

Being a big name either on the forum or in that quest's history helps the most.

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Dreadis posted his initial vote without a single word of explanation.

Honestly just getting your vote out there fast is best. If you can get the first post with no explanation or the tenth with a well explained plan, the first post is almost always going to be better.

 

[redaeth]

I'm fine with the change.

 

[Pipeman]

I'm still not seeing the point of paying for a female godess in a largely secular nation.
That's just paying points for a benefit that's signficantly reduced through the choice of nation.


And going for Liberal and Overbearing, when one of the major advantages of Caelis Valera is that even with Taditionalist "A princess of Caelis Valera will still be allowed – indeed, recommended – to pursue magic training" while the combination of Liberal and Overbearing will make him push us towards his own role of the second son trained for military matters, even though Caelis Valera is a center of learning and a lot of its military might doesn't actually come from the military but from the learned archmages.
In a nation like this a military coup is not really an option and a military position is not likely to win us many points with its studious mage population, whose support we'll ultimately need.

If you just don't want to get bogged down in stuff like embroidery, Traditionalist and Hands-off is the strictly superior option, that lets us put as much time as we want into magic and the Lesser Title would likely still justify enough statemanship training, if he notices where training in that at all.
Not to mention that him being Hands-off also means he does the same for our brother and, given that if he favours him, we don't want that much interaction between the two anyways and, if it's Neither, it only seems like the natural conclusion of that choice.
And, while affairs of state suffer somewhat from Hands-off, for the foreseeable future the resources of the state will be primarily at the disposal of our brother, while we'll have to build our own power base on way or another, so that does hurt him more than it does us.

 

[Darkened]

And going for Liberal and Overbearing, when one of the major advantages of Caelis Valera is that even with Taditionalist "A princess of Caelis Valera will still be allowed – indeed, recommended – to pursue magic training" while the combination of Liberal and Overbearing will make him push us towards his own role of the second son trained for military matters, even though Caelis Valera is a center of learning and a lot of its military might doesn't actually come from the military but from the learned archmages.

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A tendency to train women for military roles is not one of Caelis' virtues listed. Rather, that seems to happen in the Highlands and isn't discussed elsewhere. The cultured, technologically/magically advanced Caelis would be, if anything, given strict gender roles, adverse to women in the army particularly because military affairs are less essential. The lower the odds that we'll actually need to play a role in war because everyone else is dead or we have people trying to attack our castle, the lower the odds that warfare training is available.

The assumption that liberal+Overbearing=military is somewhat odd. Especially for a vote of favoring neither of us.

Liberal is also going to be a vote that's more open to a female monarch, even if neither pushes him into the useful role of a third faction rather than a backer in either ours or the prince's.

In general, any country's traditionalist background, particularly with overbearing, is going to require us to spend time on things like dance, embroidery, etc, the things described as core to traditional values in the options, even if they also let us pursue non-feminine arts such as some self-defense.