Scheming Princess Quest

[Tetsurō]

[X] Your teachers are at each other's throats! It would not be wise to favor one over the other. Abide, and wring from them what you can without getting involved. [+10 Fate points]

 

[Guile]

If she's really our uncle's bastard strengtening our pseudo rivalry could give us an angle to work on our uncle from.

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The princess was hypothesizing Sophia was her father's bastard, not uncle's.

In any case, I'm noticing that

[X] Your teachers are at each other's throats! It would not be wise to favor one over the other. Abide, and wring from them what you can without getting involved. [+10 Fate points]

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is pretty popular, tied for first with the Sophia Hill choice. Since you guys can't see into my head, I just wanted to make sure you guys realized that it's essentially the safe option: The princess will keep on trucking in magic classes without any particular strong points or weak points, and we'll skip the second event of the year in exchange for some extra Fate points to change classes or save up as a bulwark for better options in the future. Once the little recruitment segment is over, we'll be moving on to the wrap-up arc of the year.

It's not a bad choice, but I didn't want you guys to be voting for it expecting it to be as potentially interesting as the others.

 

[Akritedes]

[X] Pay a call on the Blackstones. Lord Blackstone did say you were free to call on him whenever you wished.

I can't remember why we wanted Necromancy, but someone's gotta vote for it. More importantly this is also a chance to get an in with another noble house, who practice a school of magic that is not well thought of and may be more amiable to having a Necromancer on the throne and the tacit backing that implies.

 

[Dark Ness]

[X] Pay a call on the Blackstones. Lord Blackstone did say you were free to call onhim whenever you wished.

 

[BFldyq]

[X] A dare from Sophia Hill. The girl is flourishing in your shared magic class, and you suspect she wants to show off her new powers in a less… structured setting.

 

[john doe]

[X] A dare from Sophia Hill. The girl is flourishing in your shared magic class, and you suspect she wants to show off her new powers in a less… structured setting.

 

[Briareus the Gardener]

[X] A dare from Sophia Hill. The girl is flourishing in your shared magic class, and you suspect she wants to show off her new powers in a less… structured setting.

 

[Guile]

Winning vote from before:

The servants know much [0] – They are everywhere, and they are all but invisible to the average noble. They would make acceptable pawns.

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Year 1, Update 2a

Your classes this year are challenging in a way you are not used to. Not that your previous teachers ever intended for their studies to be easy, but you do not think it is boastful to say that you are simply… smarter than many people. You are used to learning even supposedly difficult subjects easily, and that this is not the case now is frustrating.

Your schedule is quite full, as well. You'll reach for the low-hanging fruit first you think, and even that is cutting into your already reduced relaxation time.

Lacking time for more elaborate plans, you seek out the most convenient option; reaching out to those you see in your everyday life but have never really invested effort in. The ones who sew your garments and cook your meals and generally undertake the maintenance of both nobles and the castle itself; the invisible yet omnipresent army of servants the royal family maintains. It's never taken much for you to charm the people around you, least of all the common folk. Sometimes it seems like all they need is acknowledgement of the good work they do, and they will fall over themselves to thank you and love you. It's not really worth remarking on, simply a fact of life; the little people are easily led as long as you put in just a little effort. Where nobles would demand guarantees and favors to align themselves, the common folk need only to be loved to adore you in return.

The cook is the first. How easy would it be for a disgruntled cook to slip something into your food? Alice serves as your food taster, of course, but it would be a waste to lose an excellent – if quiet – maid to something as foolish as that. She knows exactly how you like your tea, how you like your books placed just so when tidying, when to bring you delightful snacks when you are distracted by other concerns … yes, it would be a shame to lose Alice.

Personally – and effusively – praising his cooking is all it takes, really. Having Alice usher him into your private sitting room and watching the heavyset salt and pepper haired man squirm from nerves is somewhat funny. The way his eyes glisten with tears as you tell him how much you enjoy his delicacies – he has a particular artistry with pastry that belies his thick-knuckled, burn-scarred hands – is less funny. Has no one ever sent their compliments to the chef? You suppose you never have. Food has simply always been available whenever you desire it

His own gratitude for your simple thanks has him bowing nearly horizontally. But when you think about it, isn't that natural? To be good enough to serve royalty, he must have dedicated his entire life to his craft. To receive praise from royal lips is an honor. You talk for a short time with him, but you know absolutely nothing about cooking – you've never so much as boiled an egg – and you're beginning to suspect there's no room in his head for anything else. You send him on his way after a handful of minutes of his rambling.

His name is Bolf. You'll remember.

The lion's share of your new, hmm… conquests? That sounds bad.

Your new friends are the castle maids. A princess needs a lot of attendants beyond the constant company of your Alice, for cleaning and dressing and primping and bathing and delivering meals and so on. It isn't hard to reach out to them just a little. You are cute, after all. Devastatingly so, actually; a fact which, while convenient, is mostly just another fact of life to you like the sun rising each day. Like a perfect, living doll, you've heard it said. Which sounds a touch creepy to you, but you're sure they mean well.

To the more motherly ones, usually the ones of a proper age that they could be your mother but not always, you only have to show just a touch of helplessness. They fall over themselves to provide for you and look out for you. To the younger ones, the teenagers and young adults who have romance in their soul, you simply play the part of the royal. Greeting them with kindness, but being a little distant, as though affairs of state have weighed you down. It makes them feel special, part of the elite, to be the confidant of such a person.

The ones who see their position as a job and nothing more are a little harder for you to charm. But they are exactly the sort that might be paid to move against you, so you feel it necessary to put in the effort. Taking an interest, showing you remember them, asking after their families and little lives. Proving you care, at least a little.

You cannot afford to win them with coin; no matter how much you are hypothetically worth, all your purchases and funds are looked over and signed off on by the Regent. But you take notes. Which have family that could be threatened, which have obvious vices to use as a handle. Not to use them yourself, of course! But making it quietly known to each that you remember your friends, and that can be a great blessing.

Overall, there is quite a bumper crop of sympathetic ears among the maids.

A trip to the stables leads to another rather fortuitous outcome. Though the convenience of automated carriage or the physically impressive domesticated magic beasts are the popular conveyances for nobles in Caelis Valera, the castle does keep a small stable of riding beasts for couriers and retainer knights not wealthy enough to afford their own mounts. One of a couple boys who care for the beasts is receptive to small kindnesses. You send him stationary to send letters home which he has a hard time affording on his pay. He has the most ridiculously country accent you've ever heard, and you sometimes wonder under what rock or living in which cave they found him, but he seems to know his trade and he is somewhat charming in a provincial bumpkin way. Surprisingly good muscular definition as well, from pitching hay or wrangling horses or whatever it is he does all day.

The last sphere of peasants within your reach are the gardeners of the castle. They, you conclude, are a peculiar bunch. You realize this when the first one you ask to join you completely forgets your appointment. It is further reinforced when you later find him carefully monitoring an extremely localized raincloud over several patches of pink, purple and red flowers planted to resemble pinwheels. Nature or Evocation magic, presumably; there's some overlap depending on whether he created the rain himself or is harnessing a natural phenomena.

The flowers are peonies and amaryllis, as well as more magical plants like kingsblood and mageroyal. You did not actually know all the names, but the commoner mage was happy to inform you. You suppose that would be a good metaphor for this whole project. Looking at the pretty little pieces that make up the elegant whole you have always taken for granted.. And realizing that even if you don't really understand them, you can still admire the tiny individual flowers working to prop up the whole.

He was apologetic when you reminded him, so thankfully he wasn't being intentionally insolent, just… dedicated, and forgetful.

Simply trying to talk to these people leads to a wealth of knowledge on the grounds and the often magical means by which they keep the place lush and beautiful. You try to steal a few moments here and there to admire the flowers and show an interest as they go about their business, but gardening is a surprisingly dense subject. There are specialized tools; techniques, both magical and not; literature; some kind of guild and certification is involved as well. You suspect it's a little beyond you without putting much more work in than a stolen hour here and there.


The end result is even better than you planned. Not just a cook, a gaggle of maids, a stable worker or two, and some of the groundskeepers; rather, most of the servants seem to have developed a certain warm regard for you. Word seems to have spread among the sculleries and back ways of the castle, about the princess being an ally of the common folk.

Who have you spent the most effort pursuing?
[X] Bolf Baxter, a renowned chef and baker. You are not entirely sure to what use he can be put, but your association is already proving delicious.
[X] Roddey Forester, a stableboy who is a deft hand with bird or beast. Steady and stolid rather than clever, but he takes direction well.
[X] Lily Turner, a quiet and somewhat mousy maid not much older than you, who is quite a fan of yours – and a conveniently unobtrusive member of the cleaning staff.
[X] Jill Chaser, the groundskeeper's daughter. She's helps with the gardening and taking care of the falcon mews. She is more than a bit willful and nosy as well, but she is kind and loyal to her friends, and daring in the face of danger.
[X] Tom Chaser, the head groundskeeper and gamekeeper. A powerful man among the staff hierarchy, Tom is kept busy with the demands of his position. He is also unlikely to follow your lead unequivocally the way those your own age might. But he is a master ranger and knows most of the ins and outs of the area around the castle.

Obviously, some Companions are more difficult to acquire than others. The tale will now turn back to the previous event, for which Sophia Hill is three votes ahead. That vote's still open, by the way, because I'm lazy about closing things up.

 

[Dark Ness]

[X] Tom Chaser, the head groundskeeper and gamekeeper. A powerful man among the staff hierarchy, Tom is kept busy with the demands of his position. He is also unlikely to follow your lead unequivocally the way those your own age might. But he is a master ranger and knows most of the ins and outs of the area around the castle.

 

[Tavarokk]

[X] Tom Chaser, the head groundskeeper and gamekeeper. A powerful man among the staff hierarchy, Tom is kept busy with the demands of his position. He is also unlikely to follow your lead unequivocally the way those your own age might. But he is a master ranger and knows most of the ins and outs of the area around the castle.

 

[DarkLight140]

[X] Jill Chaser, the groundskeeper's daughter. She's helps with the gardening and taking care of the falcon mews. She is more than a bit willful and nosy as well, but she is kind and loyal to her friends, and daring in the face of danger.

This will get us most of what the actual groundskeeper would get us, except that it'll be vastly easier to get her full and unquestioning loyalty and it'll be less suspicious if we associate with her heavily. She's almost certainly a springboard into securing her father's loyalty with minimal effort, too- no one is going to forget that we've done favors for their daughter, after all.

 

[Ct613hulu]

[X] Jill Chaser, the groundskeeper's daughter. She's helps with the gardening and taking care of the falcon mews. She is more than a bit willful and nosy as well, but she is kind and loyal to her friends, and daring in the face of danger.

 

[Xicree]

[X] Lily Turner, a quiet and somewhat mousy maid not much older than you, who is quite a fan of yours – and a conveniently unobtrusive member of the cleaning staff.


Our spy!

 

[Bobs Beard]

[X] Jill Chaser, the groundskeeper's daughter. She's helps with the gardening and taking care of the falcon mews. She is more than a bit willful and nosy as well, but she is kind and loyal to her friends, and daring in the face of danger.

I am all about magical farming, and while Tom's good, I don't see the point for going for him.

I mean let's be real; getting his daughter firmly in our camp will perforce get the dad in our camp out of sheer parental impetus to overwatch one's children/be there to maximize their chances to get ahead in life.

So I see a vote for Jill as a vote for the Chaser family in general, which strikes me as superior to just going after Tom, who may be too busy/have too many other obligations to be as loyally available as Jill.

Also, risk taker minions are always helpful.

 

[Arkeus]

[X] Jill Chaser, the groundskeeper's daughter. She's helps with the gardening and taking care of the falcon mews. She is more than a bit willful and nosy as well, but she is kind and loyal to her friends, and daring in the face of danger.

The daring, willfull and nosy makes it seems like she can be developed as a suicide bomber companion later on. Best thing is that with necromancy she is a renewable resource.

 

[RubberBandMan]

[X] Jill Chaser, the groundskeeper's daughter. She's helps with the gardening and taking care of the falcon mews. She is more than a bit willful and nosy as well, but she is kind and loyal to her friends, and daring in the face of danger.

 

[Briareus the Gardener]

[X] Jill Chaser, the groundskeeper's daughter. She's helps with the gardening and taking care of the falcon mews. She is more than a bit willful and nosy as well, but she is kind and loyal to her friends, and daring in the face of danger.

 

[Akritedes]

[X] Tom Chaser, the head groundskeeper and gamekeeper. A powerful man among the staff hierarchy, Tom is kept busy with the demands of his position. He is also unlikely to follow your lead unequivocally the way those your own age might. But he is a master ranger and knows most of the ins and outs of the area around the castle.

This, and later working on befriending his daughter may bring more benefits than starting from the other end up.

 

[redaeth]

[X] Jill Chaser, the groundskeeper's daughter. She's helps with the gardening and taking care of the falcon mews. She is more than a bit willful and nosy as well, but she is kind and loyal to her friends, and daring in the face of danger.

 

[Blargh]

[X] Jill Chaser, the groundskeeper's daughter. She's helps with the gardening and taking care of the falcon mews. She is more than a bit willful and nosy as well, but she is kind and loyal to her friends, and daring in the face of danger.

 

[Adyen]

[X] Lily Turner, a quiet and somewhat mousy maid not much older than you, who is quite a fan of yours – and a conveniently unobtrusive member of the cleaning staff.

We'd want to consider what we want in a close confidant: I'm thinking someone who get get around the palace unseen to do little 'favors' for us... or plant incriminating evidence against our enemies, and Lily is probably the easiest to do so.

 

[Ephemeral_Dreamer]

[X] Lily Turner, a quiet and somewhat mousy maid not much older than you, who is quite a fan of yours – and a conveniently unobtrusive member of the cleaning staff.

This is a game of intrigue so a competent unobtrusive spy is worth her weigth in gold

 

[Briareus the Gardener]

[] Lily Turner, a quiet and somewhat mousy maid not much older than you, who is quite a fan of yours – and a conveniently unobtrusive member of the cleaning staff.

 

[Bobs Beard]

We'd want to consider what we want in a close confidant: I'm thinking someone who get get around the palace unseen to do little 'favors' for us... or plant incriminating evidence against our enemies, and Lily is probably the easiest to do so.

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I think you're getting caught up in tropes, rather than practical results.

That is - yes, the servants are generally those that can fade into the background in narratives that deal with the ruling peeps, and they do often get ignored/brushed over by said noble-types. This does make them more likely to be overlooked when they're snooping or whatnot... by the nobles. This does nothing to protect them from being noticed by their fellow servants - and most countries have a great and storied tradition of servant X selling out servant A to get further in the good graces of this or that person. I see no reason that wouldn't apply here. In a way, the servants themselves could be considered one of the more rigorous investigative groups, as 'what's that other servant doing now' is not only gossip to fill the hours, but also a possible means of elevating oneself and something to fear being ignorant of lest you be accused of being complicit. Even worse, there's plenty of historical examples of groups of servants being punished for the actions of the one that they hadn't fully noticed - ignorance of your fellow servants goings-on is disencentivized.

On the other hand, the groundskeepers/gamekeepers/stablehands/outdoorsy-servant-types generally don't have that much interaction with gossipmongering inside-the-castle servants. Most of this is due to practicality - one group works in one place, the other in the other and rarely doth the two cross paths - and further, they're often viewed as lesser (and thus ignorable) by even the servants themselves - after all, at least they get to work inside the castle, and not have to keep mucking in the mud like peasants. Despite this, we seem to be in a setting where the gardener types aren't that restricted - it's magical crop stuff, it's just been presented to us that 'magic gardeners being lost in their own world in relation to their craft' is fairly normal, and there are at least decorative plots they have to attend to scattered throughout the castle, rather than there only being a field proper/the game preserve.

Per all this I posit that the Chasers, either of them would be more liable to be an effective worker-turned-spy, if that's what you want.

We'd want to consider what we want in a close confidant: I'm thinking someone who get get around the palace unseen to do little 'favors' for us... or plant incriminating evidence against our enemies, and Lily is probably the easiest to do so.

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Easier than getting a person who practices a niche craft that could explain away a great manner of irregular actions/object plantings/etc wherein the only person knowledgeable enough to potentially call them on their bluff... is their family member?

This is a game of intrigue so a competent unobtrusive spy is worth her weigth in gold

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And also expected - it's rather important to compare 'how much competency at the task I have in mind does this NPC have' against 'how likely are other NPCs to notice/pay attention to the NPC I choose to do my stuff'.

While it's possible Turner is an objectively more competent spy-type by default, I'd say that in terms of net gain either Chaser can beat her out for reasons I outline above.

Just putting these out there since it appears that perhaps some of the Turner votes are picking her for reasons more logically suited to other choices.

 

[Guile]

It probably won't surprise you guys that at its most basic, Turner v. Chaser is a question of where you expect to need an agent.

Lily Turner is more useful if you want to, say, search a noble's room unobtrusively, or plant something, or slip something into someone's meal, or even just talk you up among the house servants. Jill is more free to wander the grounds, get into the nearby forest, or go into town for you. There is a small ... I'm not sure rivalry is the right word, but the house servants do tend to look down on the gardeners as a rule. The gardeners mostly don't pay attention to what's going on inside the castle proper as long as they're free to do their thing.

Roddey is more to the Jill Chaser end of the spectrum (outer servant type), but with a focus on the comings and goings of couriers and knights and so on.

Bolf rules the back kitchens, for whatever that's worth. The obvious use would be to lace food with poison, but I'm not sure you could convince him ruin good food like that, because he REALLY cares about that stuff (and also it would probably get him killed).

 

[Adyen]

I think you're getting caught up in tropes, rather than practical results.

That is - yes, the servants are generally those that can fade into the background in narratives that deal with the ruling peeps, and they do often get ignored/brushed over by said noble-types. This does make them more likely to be overlooked when they're snooping or whatnot... by the nobles. This does nothing to protect them from being noticed by their fellow servants - and most countries have a great and storied tradition of servant X selling out servant A to get further in the good graces of this or that person. I see no reason that wouldn't apply here. In a way, the servants themselves could be considered one of the more rigorous investigative groups, as 'what's that other servant doing now' is not only gossip to fill the hours, but also a possible means of elevating oneself and something to fear being ignorant of lest you be accused of being complicit. Even worse, there's plenty of historical examples of groups of servants being punished for the actions of the one that they hadn't fully noticed - ignorance of your fellow servants goings-on is disencentivized.

Click to shrink...

You are totally missing the point of us actively buying the loyalty of all the other servants here. However, I doubt that just buying their loyalty would allow them to act in a way that helps us, but if we make one of them a close confidant, then we can make even more use of them.

And while subjectivity having more 'range' that Chaser gives is nice... I'm not quite sure what we can do about it right now. She doesn't seem to be the type who would agree to create political intrigue (tho if she didn't understand it she just might do what we ask her to), and while having the groundskeeper willing to do us a few favor would be nice... there's nothing he can do that would probably dent our battle-build brother or help us attain the throne.

So ya, I favor Turner over Chaser simply because Turner gives us more options in most situations other than those that would resort to drastic measures. I mean, we could probably get poisons easier if we picked Tom Chaser, (not sure about Jill), but the chance of actually murdering our brother is actually REALLY slim.

 

[Wutnhammer]

[X] Jill Chaser, the groundskeeper's daughter. She's helps with the gardening and taking care of the falcon mews. She is more than a bit willful and nosy as well, but she is kind and loyal to her friends, and daring in the face of danger.

Maybe we'll accidentally learn some nature magic while we're at it

 

[Bobs Beard]

You are totally missing the point of us actively buying the loyalty of all the other servants here.

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How, exactly, do you figure that?

I acknowledged that a particular choice (and implicitly by extension the other choices) did have merits, and only then went past that to highlight how it appears to me that the options with the highest total amount of possible freedom to roam about in the process of doing things for us are the most valuable, and point towards the options I feel most thoroughly possess this attribute.

So what point do you think I'm missing, given I've already acknowledged the value of maid-types, and via my argument for either Chaser implicitly acknowledged the value of the stable-hand - collectively, a majority of the options, I might add.

And while subjectivity having more 'range' that Chaser gives is nice... I'm not quite sure what we can do about it right now. She doesn't seem to be the type who would agree to create political intrigue

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I'm curious how you think that doesn't apply at least as much to the other choices - I don't see any of the choices as having anything we can do something useful with now, rather than merely build groundwork for later. I don't see the maid-choice swiftly becoming a good spy/inflitrator for us, or the cook getting swayed into being a willing poisoner, or any of that.

...while having the groundskeeper willing to do us a few favor would be nice... there's nothing he can do that would probably dent our battle-build brother or help us attain the throne.

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Sure - but which other options besides either Chaser even have a visible potential for having someone 'willing to do us a few favors' involved with them?

Because I don't see any.

So ya, I favor Turner over Chaser simply because Turner gives us more options in most situations other than those that would resort to drastic measures.

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We'll just have to agree to disagree, as it seems clear you see far less potential complications making an easily overlooked maid transition into a snooper/spy without losing her overlooked-ness amongst the other servants than I do.

 

[Adyen]

How, exactly, do you figure that?

I acknowledged that a particular choice (and implicitly by extension the other choices) did have merits, and only then went past that to highlight how it appears to me that the options with the highest total amount of possible freedom to roam about in the process of doing things for us are the most valuable, and point towards the options I feel most thoroughly possess this attribute.

So what point do you think I'm missing, given I've already acknowledged the value of maid-types, and via my argument for either Chaser implicitly acknowledged the value of the stable-hand - collectively, a majority of the options, I might add.

Click to shrink...

Your disagree with the pick based on this argument:

That is - yes, the servants are generally those that can fade into the background in narratives that deal with the ruling peeps, and they do often get ignored/brushed over by said noble-types. This does make them more likely to be overlooked when they're snooping or whatnot... by the nobles. This does nothing to protect them from being noticed by their fellow servants - and most countries have a great and storied tradition of servant X selling out servant A to get further in the good graces of this or that person. I see no reason that wouldn't apply here. In a way, the servants themselves could be considered one of the more rigorous investigative groups, as 'what's that other servant doing now' is not only gossip to fill the hours, but also a possible means of elevating oneself and something to fear being ignorant of lest you be accused of being complicit. Even worse, there's plenty of historical examples of groups of servants being punished for the actions of the one that they hadn't fully noticed - ignorance of your fellow servants goings-on is disencentivized.

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Which I, validly, responded that since we are in the process of cementing the loyalty of the servants, the above isn't an issue.

So yes, you're missing the point of us buying their loyalty, when your argument is that they wouldn't be loyal ANYWAYS.

I'm curious how you think that doesn't apply at least as much to the other choices - I don't see any of the choices as having anything we can do something useful with now, rather than merely build groundwork for later. I don't see the maid-choice swiftly becoming a good spy/inflitrator for us, or the cook getting swayed into being a willing poisoner, or any of that.

Click to shrink...

I see the maid choice being valid MUCH sooner than any other choice because A), with the loyalty of the other servants to cover for her, she's able to act with much less fear of discovery - things like spreading rumors about people we don't like, or finding out what other people are up to just via gossip or have Lily just work in a certain area of the palace; and B) we can't make any overt actions against anyone due to our (admittedly self-caused) lack of support within the palace, so we want to make sure that we have the most opportunities TO gain power - which means we won't be using anything the Chaser(s) can give anytime "until the time we can make those kinds of actions".

So, at what point can we choose to make overt actions? Consider what it would take to, say, assassinate someone verses planting "evidence" that says they are not as trusted by the prince as they thought they were?

If we want to assassinate someone, we must have a method of killing and then have the person killed. With Jill, we might have a method of disposing the body or (if she somehow became a fanatical and devote follower) even a method of straight out killing someone (she does give a lot of options to kill someone). With Lily, we're looking more of either poison or ambushing (via telling Lily to lure them somewhere we prepared). Both have their advantages and disadvantages, but choosing Jill is the more confrontational choices that I feel we'd be avoiding until we can gain the loyalty of the guards in case they notice anything.

Meanwhile, if we're doing the latter we could easily have Lily do it while it's much harder for Jill to do so it would require the target to be in an area that Jill works in (as it would be suspicious for her to wander inside the castle ground itself).

Sure - but which other options besides either Chaser even have a visible potential for having someone 'willing to do us a few favors' involved with them?

Because I don't see any.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, as it seems clear you see far less potential complications making an easily overlooked maid transition into a snooper/spy without losing her overlooked-ness amongst the other servants than I do.

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^^^ Exactly why I said you're ignoring the entire point of gaining the loyalty of the servants.

 

[Bobs Beard]

Your disagree with the pick based on this argument:

Which I, validly, responded that since we are in the process of cementing the loyalty of the servants, the above isn't an issue.

So yes, you're missing the point of us buying their loyalty, when your argument is that they wouldn't be loyal ANYWAYS.

Click to shrink...

Actually that's you goofing - my concern for loyalty is the other servants/maids around our chooseable maid/servant, not the maid (Ms. Turner) herself.

I'm not concerned that if picked the Maid Turner wouldn't be loyal - I'm concerned that her loyalty could be rendered irrelevant by other maids being loyal to other higher-ups (like the prince), or generally looking out for No. 1 and reporting on people doing shady shit.

I see the maid choice being valid MUCH sooner than any other choice because A), with the loyalty of the other servants to cover for her, she's able to act with much less fear of discovery - things like spreading rumors about people we don't like, or finding out what other people are up to just via gossip or have Lily just work in a certain area of the palace; and B) we can't make any overt actions against anyone due to our (admittedly self-caused) lack of support within the palace, so we want to make sure that we have the most opportunities TO gain power - which means we won't be using anything the Chaser(s) can give anytime "until the time we can make those kinds of actions".

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Fair enough - I obviously don't agree with this stance but hey, at least you articulated it.

So, at what point can we choose to make overt actions? Consider what it would take to, say, assassinate someone verses planting "evidence" that says they are not as trusted by the prince as they thought they were?

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I think we have different definitions of 'overt' as well - to me, any action a potential minion's asked to take, even as simple as leaving a note for someone, is overt. I'm expecting initial minion returns to be largely based in passive benefits - what they overhear in the course of their job, what they see in the course of their work routes, that stuff. Which, again, comes back to my prioritization of whoever feels most mobile.

If we want to assassinate someone, we must have a method of killing and then have the person killed. With Jill, we might have a method of disposing the body or (if she somehow became a fanatical and devote follower) even a method of straight out killing someone (she does give a lot of options to kill someone). With Lily, we're looking more of either poison or ambushing (via telling Lily to lure them somewhere we prepared). Both have their advantages and disadvantages, but choosing Jill is the more confrontational choices that I feel we'd be avoiding until we can gain the loyalty of the guards in case they notice anything.

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I don't know that I'd ever even vote to have a minion attempt to poison or otherwise kill someone, as I feel that such extreme levels of minion use aren't at all realistic to long games based on real life precedent/I'm somewhat biased against the storytelling tropes that paint such spywork as being more easily accomplished/more useful to one's goals than it really is.

Meanwhile, if we're doing the latter we could easily have Lily do it while it's much harder for Jill to do so it would require the target to be in an area that Jill works in (as it would be suspicious for her to wander inside the castle ground itself).

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I'd certainly be interested in seeing the fallout of a vote to have a minion do something like that, provided it ever happens.

^^^ Exactly why I said you're ignoring the entire point of gaining the loyalty of the servants.

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...You keep saying servants/all the other servants, here - why?

It reads like you think picking the maid choice is perforce going to make it easier to swing all the servants under out sway, and I'm not seeing any rationale for that. People can hate their coworkers, and hate them more for getting close with the boss, and per that be harder to get on the boss's side.