SHINOBI: The RPG - Act 2 (Naruto/Fallout SI)

[Seru]

Well, that sucks, friend. I will enjoy this cookie on your behalf.



...Like Warhammer 40k?

The thought has occurred to me.





Have a cookie.

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I am now imagining Daisuke and Dairu crossing swords in misunderstanding, given Dairu being a Samurai learning every bit of Jutsu he can steal...

 

[Fulcon]

The harem part wasn't actually that bad, although it is kinda weird how Anko is insistent on it and doesn't understand why he wouldn't want it, whereas the others are firmly against it. More of an issue is just how much he's stuck on his old world, and how it would definitely be better to copypaste that system into this world. And he even gets things continuously thrown in his face about how horrible his plan is, and he kinda sidesteps a bit but it honestly made me less interested in him succeeding.

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I'm not going to try justifying the harem. Everything about it was wrong, from the concept to execution.

As for the plan, my intent was to show him willing to modify it in the face of new information to try to optimize it's execution. I don't see why that would make it less compelling, though, you'll have to forgive me.

 

[Chrisleech]

As for the plan, my intent was to show him willing to modify it in the face of new information to try to optimize it's execution. I don't see why that would make it less compelling, though, you'll have to forgive me.

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I was kinda on board with the original plan of bringing peace and unity trough ninshu and jutsu, but the more that things had to be thought through the less I liked it, and I liked it even less when I saw him getting stuck on his old world. Probably not explaining this well, had to rewrite this at least 5 times.

 

[Fulcon]

I was kinda on board with the original plan of bringing peace and unity trough ninshu and jutsu, but the more that things had to be thought through the less I liked it, and I liked it even less when I saw him getting stuck on his old world. Probably not explaining this well, had to rewrite this at least 5 times.

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Yeah, the plan sounds awesome until the details come out. Glad that part was done well, I guess.

 

[Darkarma]

I mean, yeah. It's supposed to be a Naruto fanfic. Shouldn't the focus be on Naruto?

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If the primary character was Naruto. But there are literally thousands of Naruto centric fanfics. I see an update here, I come looking to read Daisuke.

The occasional interlude with Naruto is okay, but Daisuke is where it's at.

As for the whole harem thing. I didn't mind you want to write that. The characterization of Anko pushing it always struck me as odd. But I gave it a pass. I find harems just make fics more complicated and bring in too many characters that don't have any bearing on the story. Two or three love interests are my limit. Do you want a Harem? Go for it. Write the best harem it can be. We don't kink shame here.

If you don't want to do it, that's fine too. You do you. The best authors write for themselves.

If you are going to do anything with this, I look forward to more, if you move on, I hope its First Person point of view of some sort. I definitely won't say no to another SI. You do good on those. Like your SW SI who joined the Empire (I think that was you?).

But yeah, glad to see you still around.

 

[Bigreader]

Job did not have seven wives been a while since I've read that book but he had seven children who died and then he got seven more and three daughters later on

 

[asdo]

in regards to the harem thing, the harem itself does not seem to be the issue according to what I am reading and to myself personally, it was the fact that Anko was so insistent on getting daisuke one despite his objections towards the idea, and that it also seemed a bit out of character for her to be doing so. at least that is the vibe I am getting.

 

[Fulcon]

If the primary character was Naruto. But there are literally thousands of Naruto centric fanfics. I see an update here, I come looking to read Daisuke.

The occasional interlude with Naruto is okay, but Daisuke is where it's at.

As for the whole harem thing. I didn't mind you want to write that. The characterization of Anko pushing it always struck me as odd. But I gave it a pass. I find harems just make fics more complicated and bring in too many characters that don't have any bearing on the story. Two or three love interests are my limit. Do you want a Harem? Go for it. Write the best harem it can be. We don't kink shame here.

If you don't want to do it, that's fine too. You do you. The best authors write for themselves.

If you are going to do anything with this, I look forward to more, if you move on, I hope its First Person point of view of some sort. I definitely won't say no to another SI. You do good on those. Like your SW SI who joined the Empire (I think that was you?).

But yeah, glad to see you still around.

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I appreciate the kind words. Thank you for the insight as well, I appreciate it.

Job did not have seven wives been a while since I've read that book but he had seven children who died and then he got seven more and three daughters later on

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Objection sustained. Don't know where I heard it from, but I just checked. My bad.

in regards to the harem thing, the harem itself does not seem to be the issue according to what I am reading and to myself personally, it was the fact that Anko was so insistent on getting daisuke one despite his objections towards the idea, and that it also seemed a bit out of character for her to be doing so. at least that is the vibe I am getting.

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Thank you for the insight, I appreciate it.

 

[Chrisleech]

I mean, yeah. It's supposed to be a Naruto fanfic. Shouldn't the focus be on Naruto?

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If the primary character was Naruto. But there are literally thousands of Naruto centric fanfics. I see an update here, I come looking to read Daisuke.

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Based on what they said in the parentheses, it seemed more like they had an issue with the other non naruto(show/manga) stuff. Like the godmode guy showing up and stuffing stuff in the world to "challenge" him

 

[Fulcon]

Based on what they said in the parentheses, it seemed more like they had an issue with the other non naruto(show/manga) stuff. Like the godmode guy showing up and stuffing stuff in the world to "challenge" him

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I confess I don't see why Victor was such a controversy. We already have one SI/Isekai'd individual, why not two?

 

[asdo]

I confess I don't see why Victor was such a controversy. We already have one SI/Isekai'd individual, why not two?

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could be that it took away from the focus of the main premise of the story of which being the SI/isekai'd MC, cause now there were two, so there could be 3, 4, 100? and all of them as impactful on the story as daisuke and made him less special.

edit: plus potentially made any friends/actions daisuke made meaningless as literally at any moment someone could instantly drop godzilla on them and wipe them out before daisuke could do anything and even potentially stop him from reversing the damage as they are all as special/op as him but in different ways

 

[Fulcon]

could be that it took away from the focus of the main premise of the story of which being the SI/isekai'd MC, cause now there were two, so there could be 3, 4, 100? and all of them as impactful on the story as daisuke and made him less special.

edit: plus potentially made any friends/actions daisuke made meaningless as literally at any moment someone could instantly drop godzilla on them and wipe them out before daisuke could do anything and even potentially stop him from reversing the damage as they are all as special/op as him but in different ways

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It's like the best possible foe ever, though. Someone who knows everything you know, potentially more and is malicious and envious enough to come after you.

I mean...come on, all the best games are multiplayer.

EDIT: Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. I think you may be right and it's a really new concept altogether, so...

 

[asdo]

It's like the best possible foe ever, though. Someone who knows everything you know, potentially more and is malicious and envious enough to come after you.

I mean...come on, all the best games are multiplayer.

EDIT: Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. I think you may be right and it's a really new concept altogether, so...

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it's fine, was merely just saying what it felt like to me, just an opinion.

another thing to consider that it might have been too sudden of a curveball? that it might have to drastically changed the tone of the story with no real buildup or foreshadowing? or maybe I just missed those hints.

 

[Chrisleech]

It's like the best possible foe ever, though. Someone who knows everything you know, potentially more and is malicious and envious enough to come after you.

I mean...come on, all the best games are multiplayer.

EDIT: Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. I think you may be right and it's a really new concept altogether, so...

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First of all, while many multiplayer games are popular, they don't tend to have story modes where another person is playing against you. Also generally all players are at least starting on an equal playing field.

There are a bunch of reason why having a villain who knows absolutely every action of the main character and is malicious makes for a bad villain.

 

[NightmareWarden]

Some of you I ignored because you were unpleasant

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I did no favors with the way I argued with you, friend. Whatever you do going forward, let me thank you for talking to all of us instead of vanishing silently; your valid points convinced me to think and delete what I type, what feelings I want to communicate, instead of throwing them at authors like a live grenade.

You are awesome and should stand proud on behalf of what you have written. If you can't do that with this story due to the explicit elements, then remember Pyroclasm and your therapeutic Avatar story. Plus, you should be proud of the first Shinobi: the RPG, it kicks ass. Your writing standards today does not mean your old works are some albatross around your neck going forward. Thank you for going public (well, online) with your writings.

 

[Fulcon]

another thing to consider that it might have been too sudden of a curveball? that it might have to drastically changed the tone of the story with no real buildup or foreshadowing? or maybe I just missed those hints.

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That's just another casualty of rushing things and trying too hard to get to the end. I was working past burnout, you know?

First of all, while many multiplayer games are popular, they don't tend to have story modes where another person is playing against you. Also generally all players are at least starting on an equal playing field.

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Just a metaphor, friend.

There are a bunch of reason why having a villain who knows absolutely every action of the main character and is malicious makes for a bad villain.

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I respectfully disagree. With the right execution, a ROB can be the best villain and SI can face, I firmly believe that.

I did no favors with the way I argued with you, friend. Whatever you do going forward, let me thank you for talking to all of us instead of vanishing silently; your valid points convinced me to think and delete what I type, what feelings I want to communicate, instead of throwing them at authors like a live grenade.

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I appreciate the sentiment. Thank you, I'm glad we can remain amicable in spite of all that's happened.

You are awesome and should stand proud on behalf of what you have written. If you can't do that with this story due to the explicit elements, then remember Pyroclasm and your therapeutic Avatar story. Plus, you should be proud of the first Shinobi: the RPG, it kicks ass. Your writing standards today does not mean your old works are some albatross around your neck going forward. Thank you for going public (well, online) with your writings.

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Thank you, again. I feel like I'm blushing. I appreciate your very kind words.

Have a cookie.

 

[NightmareWarden]

Have a cookie.

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Where's the cow summoning contract when you need it?

I respectfully disagree. With the right execution, a ROB can be the best villain and SI can face, I firmly believe that.

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Hell, one of the best ongoing One Piece fanfics agrees with you. I admit that story (PM me for it, don't want to spoil that story element) used their villain differently though.

 

[Fulcon]

Where's the cow summoning contract when you need it?

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That...is a great question.

EDIT:

Hell, one of the best ongoing One Piece fanfics agrees with you. I admit that story (PM me for it, don't want to spoil that story element) used their villain differently though.

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Well, that's good to know! I'm not looking for a story to read at the moment, but when the itch comes, I'll shoot you a message.

 

[FreeGod]

Right now, I'm trying to learn how to draw. It's been a long time since a new discipline has excited me like art has. Maybe it'll turn into something, who knows?

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I wish you luck we could use more writers that are also good artists. Unfortunately learning how to draw can be surprisingly hard.

 

[Cefta]

Glad to hear you're doing better, admittedly in part because I can actually ask a question I've been mulling over since about chapter 4 of the first (published) draft of act 2

Spoiler: recursive fic request

Would it be alright if at some point after I finish my current project I take a stab at a recursive fanfiction of this?

Like: "Welcome to fun 'purgatory' where you entertain us (RoB & the audience)" in an implied tested version of this system with some references to the past of this work while also keeping away from the apotheosis plotline.

I even had a joke set up of trying any romance plots starts a quest titled or referencing "Hikaru Genji" as a little razz toward the practice (which in fiction is fun but... y'know) to make the player contemplate their actions while they try to learn from "Daisuke sempai" 's plot initiating whoops and find out that it's still not easy to be the "hero" especially when one's heart isn't in it.

The idea of that plan is for a flawed man to learn to be a better flawed man and balance the man they'd like to be with the man they actually are and finish as a better person than they started including shifting from a selfish desire to maintain status quo to take advantage of it to accepting that as wrong and aiding Naruto in building that better world even as they fear the lack of control they'll have over it.

Also being less subtle about the whole "the system didn't make you bad, your choices did." Thing since I'm not confident in my writing skills being good enough for that hence the recursive fanfiction of a gamer fic request.

And of course, thank you for explaining it gives valuable context, I hope your life continues to improve and wish you the best.

 

[Fulcon]

I wish you luck we could use more writers that are also good artists. Unfortunately learning how to draw can be surprisingly hard.

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Thank you, I need all the luck I can get. Art is hard.

Glad to hear you're doing better, admittedly in part because I can actually ask a question I've been mulling over since about chapter 4 of the first (published) draft of act 2

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Go right ahead!

 

[Cefta]

Thank you, I need all the luck I can get. Art is hard.



Go right ahead!

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Thank you very much, I'll tag you while making note of your retirement once I've got it ready, It'll be awhile though.

Spoiler

WHY the fuck did I think dropping in a DBZ jumpchain as the first one would be a good first published work aaaaaaa

 

[aaaaaaaaahhhhhhh]

Hey I'm happy to see that you are doing ok! I thought this story and the previous version were both really nice. I can tell you worked really hard on both of them. And I still love the art work that you use as your profile pic here.

 

[Fulcon]

Hey I'm happy to see that you are doing ok! I thought this story and the previous version were both really nice. I can tell you worked really hard on both of them. And I still love the art work that you use as your profile pic here.

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The artwork was a gift from a fan, who I have not spoken too in some time. Great guy! I think you can still find the full version over on Spacebattles, but I'm not sure where.

 

[Darkarma]

I confess I don't see why Victor was such a controversy. We already have one SI/Isekai'd individual, why not two?

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Same. I had a lot of thoughts on how you could go about beating him. Go cheaty route and somehow activate console commands. Or go the Hao route and try and rehabilitate god.

 

[Garganator]

Been a while . I remember commenting a lot in this story, so I may as well leave yet another one.

I, Fulcon, apologize for ruining the story and allowing my negative feelings toward fanfiction, Naruto itself and toward some of you to taint my worldview and sully a story you all enjoyed so much. For the sake of authenticity and transparency, I'm going to go through how I ruined the story, my thought process and the consequences therein. There'll be explanations, but those are there to provide context for my failure and not to excuse anything because, at the end of the day, injury was done and that's all that matters.

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While the story had flaws, it was still one of the most original stories. Maybe not exactly in Naruto fandom per se, but Gamer one? My gosh, Gamer Fanfiction stories are soooo boooring and repetitive, it's disgusting. 99,9% of them go with the friggin The Gamer story mechanic, and always apply ID Create mechanic, which was in canon LIMITED TO ONLY THAT WORLD. Something that ALL OF THEM forgot about.

Of course focusing on one of the most overpowered, and boring gamer mechanic options you may aim for.

So using Fallout mechanic was the main reason why this story worked out the way it was. Charisma 1 to 10 jump chapter is still one of my favorite ones. You showed how such a drastic quick change may affect the user, and you did it well.

Maybe you have no idea how innovative that choice was, but I will tell you - it was a breath of fresh air that Gamer fanfiction desperately needed.

You know Zabuza and Haku? There is an above 50% chance that they were sodomizing each other. Well, actually, Zabuza was sodomizing Haku. I don't remember what a pairing like that is called, but it was a thing in that time period and it grosses me out (was Zabuza a groomer?). Given the obsession everyone had with Kekkei Genkai, it also seemed logical to me that people with special bloodlines would get harems for the express purpose of spreading that bloodline. However, the powerful have this way of getting whatever the heck they want and Daisuke was a god. A god who had abandoned his identity as someone from our world and went fully native as he understood it. Which meant, yeah, inducting underage girls into a harem.

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In canon Haku called Zabuza 'beautiful', directly, it's pretty likely.

To be fair Haku's age of 16 wasn't THAT squicky in this case, as in some Western countries in the modern world (like Poland, Austria, etc.) it's already a legal age to have sex, and people at this age are just mature enough (but it may not be the case as well, unfortunately) with proper education to be able to make this kind of decision somewhat responsibly. The education part is VERY important.

So yeah, it could be grooming. There is no direct evidence to it to be fair.

However, a lot of my historical justification and perspective comes from ancient Israel. In the old testament, King David had over five hundred wives. Job, a man called Perfect by God Himself, had seven wives to start and was awarded seven wives by God after his ordeal (EDIT: This is Incorrect, should've paid more attention to my sources). Oh, and at the time of the Roman's, they arranged marriages between girls who were thirteen or fourteen to men who were in their thirties. The girls were that young to facilitate as many children as possible due to childbirth complications being common (as I understand it) and thirty was when men were actually trained and able to have a career to provide for their wife.

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It's not just ancient Israel. Pederasty in Rome and Greece was pretty much normal, including male on boys homosexual love being one of the higher forms of love.

Ancient Japan (that Naruto is somewhat inspired with) had zero issues with underage sex. Virginity wasn't even virtue in any shape and form, as that culture applied ZERO value to 'chastity' as the concept.

Medieval Europe had 11-13 years old young women married older men many times, and they never considered it strange. Why? Because back then a concept of a 'child' and 'adult' wasn't understood the way we do. Something like 'childhood' wasn't a thing at all, and children were considered pretty much 'mini adults' that need to 'grow up from their weird quirks' to keep it simple. Pedophilia as a concept never existed back then. Pedophilia the way we understand it is, in fact, a very modern concept, showing up as the Wikipedia page mentions AT THE END OF the 19TH CENTURY. Earlier? Nothing weird at all.

In other words, in my opinion, it's cultural customs. Morality depending on regions and history varied drastically and it still does in some cases. To put it into perspective, look at this age of consent map.

The Phillippines, one of the most catholic countries in the world, where abortion is completely illegal, has the age of consent is 12. And it's still not the lowest number in the world, as it's the age of 11 in Nigeria and Angola.

Anyway, my point here is that I can see the issue. Do you want the potential story to be historically/logically accurate, yes, unfortunately, it touched on the subject of pedophilia, because many of those cultures simply never recognized it as an issue, because it simply wasn't one. In some places, it STILL isn't.

If you decide to go with this kind of story again and want to keep writing accuracy as ideal as possible, stick with modern worlds, where only legal age characters enter intimate relationships, and it culturally makes sense to be wary/has banned underage sex.

As unfortunately, otherwise, you either keep it accurate according to historical customs, or admit that this kind of a thing must be retconned. It's either one of those.

Now you'll notice that all of this is the wrong country and the wrong time period. I was literally transposing one cultures values and norms to another based on judgements I made on my limited perspective of warring states. I know Polygamy was a thing and I know that marrying age is 13 in Japan to this day (depending on the province) but I was making a lot of assumptions that may, or may not be accurate and I was doing it to air my negative feelings about the franchise and my own sexual frustration.

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This is the case with MANY people. When you see stories in such historical settings, they will never, ever be really accurate, because otherwise, they touch on too big a taboo in modern days for any sort of censorship to let it through.

Also, I wish Daisuke and Anko's marriage wasn't framed so heavily in 'he did something great for her, now he owns her soul'. I had a lot of misconceptions about relationships and marriage, in spite of how much research I had done. Most of these being the misconceptions born from my parents dysfunctional marriage (Dad is a narcissist. Not clinically diagnosed, but he exhibits most of the symptoms) which is not a fun thing to read or recall writing. I apologize for this failure and will strive to do better in the future.

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It wasn't an even dynamic from the get-go. Anko simply owed Daisuke too much to make it really even in any shape and form.

Is it impossible to work with? I wouldn't say so. In the end, 'traditional' marriages still exist, and can still function properly.

But I can see why it could simply not 'click' with the character dynamics. It's also a bit jarring, knowing that Anko is a strong, confident kunoichi, so seeing her in more traditional female role may be hard to really connect, and make it work in characterization.

Which included having Naruto turn evil. I'm still convinced that could've worked, but I don't think anyone actually wanted to read it. In fact, people were pretty hostile to the idea, leaving the fic entirely over the conversation between Naruto and Jashin. Which means it wouldn't have worked because what is an entertainer without his audience? So I apologize for trying to force a character arc that was completely out of place and trying to include themes that, while potentially realistic or plausible, clashed with the story and source material itself (Sasuke never got a harem and you know how valuable the Sharingan was). It was wrong, and I will strive to not repeat my mistake in the future.

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In canon, we have evidence of Naruto having a 'bad half' with Yami Naruto. To master his Jinchuuriki state, he confronts his issues in let's call it mindscape, and meets his 'bad half'. It would be possible to make it work, but would it work? Maybe?

But it shows that resentment in Naruto existed. Also being 'evil' doesn't exactly being a vicious murderhobo or something similar. It may be something like committing bad sins and believing you do it to make things better later on. Villainy and 'evil' aren't a simply 1+1 equation if you do it right.

"Ignore the people telling you to write what you want to write. Instead, focus on writing what you want to read."

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Criticism will always exist. But yes, the most important point here is that if you don't like something, in the long run it will simply tire you out.

I think this concept story would work far better with a fandom you genuinely like, in a more modern world, with modern values, so you don't deal with inner conflicts, like that whole underage sex issue.

The harem part wasn't actually that bad, although it is kinda weird how Anko is insistent on it and doesn't understand why he wouldn't want it, whereas the others are firmly against it. More of an issue is just how much he's stuck on his old world, and how it would definitely be better to copypaste that system into this world. And he even gets things continuously thrown in his face about how horrible his plan is, and he kinda sidesteps a bit but it honestly made me less interested in him succeeding.

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I also find it strange.

I think it would be most people are either fine with harems, or against them. This divide still feels off.

But in ancient Japan (and it may apply to Naruto) marriage of more than 1 wife was EXTREMELY RARE, because they were also EXPENSIVE to keep around.

It's also kind of why Muslim marriages today rarely include more than 1 wife as well. Yeah, harem is a nice fantasy, but it's just that - fantasy. People can barely keep their marriages around these days, if it's just 2 of them. Imagine the chaos of trying to keep peace in a group of 4 people, that live together with each other every single day, and learn more about each other in not only positive ways but especially negative ones as well.

Many divorces happen because in the end the early 'good days' very, VERY rarely show how someone is unless your life with them long enough to start seeing how they are really.

My parents divorced after 25 years of living together, and what I learned about my father... is just disgusting, let's say it this way.

If the primary character was Naruto. But there are literally thousands of Naruto centric fanfics. I see an update here, I come looking to read Daisuke.

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There are thankfully the ones with Kakashi, Sakura, etc. as main protags as well.

As for the whole harem thing. I didn't mind you want to write that. The characterization of Anko pushing it always struck me as odd. But I gave it a pass. I find harems just make fics more complicated and bring in too many characters that don't have any bearing on the story. Two or three love interests are my limit. Do you want a Harem? Go for it. Write the best harem it can be. We don't kink shame here.

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We don't kink shame, but I can assure you that you won't find any real story that shows how hard it may be to maintain more than a single, simple pairing if we add any sort of realism to it. The 'they happily lived ever after' is such a nice dream. But it's just that - a dream, that almost never, ever happens. Adding more people to that mix? Yeah, in most cases I don't see those surviving too long, we are simply too flawed as human beings.

There is also a reason why polyamory, while an interesting concept, has a very, very high ratio of breaks up.

in regards to the harem thing, the harem itself does not seem to be the issue according to what I am reading and to myself personally, it was the fact that Anko was so insistent on getting daisuke one despite his objections towards the idea, and that it also seemed a bit out of character for her to be doing so. at least that is the vibe I am getting.

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Yes, I also don't see harem being the issue as well. The main problem is exactly what is said here - why does Anko in particular insist on this? If he is happy with just her, and she would be happy with him anyway, why try to insist on something else?

 

[Darkarma]

We don't kink shame, but I can assure you that you won't find any real story that shows how hard it may be to maintain a single, simple pairing if we add any sort of realism to it. The 'they happily lived ever after' is such a nice dream. But it's just that - a dream, that almost never, ever happens. Adding more people to that mix? Yeah, in most cases I don't see those surviving too long, we are simply too flawed as human beings.

There is also a reason why polyamory, while an interesting concept, has a very, very high ratio of breaks up.

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Big Love, did a pretty good job, though it's not what I would call male gaze harem either.

When you see stories in such historical settings, they will never, ever be really accurate, because otherwise, they touch on too big a taboo in modern days for any sort of censorship to let it through.

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Indeed. Only reinforces how much of schizotech/culture Naruto is.

 

[Fulcon]

Yes, I also don't see harem being the issue as well. The main problem is exactly what is said here - why does Anko in particular insist on this? If he is happy with just her, and she would be happy with him anyway, why try to insist on something else?

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First, let me say how much I appreciate your long, meaty post. I'm cherry picking this thing at the end because I don't have much to say about it other than giving you a cookie and a hug for your contribution. Thank you.

Looking back on it now, it looks like Anko had no faith that she could stop Daisuke from sleeping with other women and his own promises to the contrary were too good to be true. So if she couldn't stop him from doing that, she would instead try to control who it was that he slept with and would make sure it was people she actually liked or would stay in line. This isn't what I was going for, but that's what it looks like in retrospective. Toxic, ain't it?

Big Love, did a pretty good job, though it's not what I would call male gaze harem either.

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Isn't that about Fundementalist LDS?

I feel a distinct sense of irony.

 

[Garganator]

Big Love, did a pretty good job, though it's not what I would call male gaze harem either.

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I also mention that realistic harem anime-style is pretty much unrealistic, as we humans have tendency to be envious/jealous of others very often as well.

And in a relationship with more than 2 people, there is a very high chance (there is only so much time per day) that someone will be neglected in favor of someone else. Or feelings for someone may be stronger than with others. This lack of equality and fairness sooner or later will cause friction. As I mentioned - heavy balance and the feeling of partnership may be impossible to keep in normal relationships lots of times - most couples argue A LOT. It's inevitable. We all have our preferences and differences.

Add to this let's say 2-3 people? Yeah...

But it's kind of an issue with fictional romantic stories. They are simply too idealistic and rarely touch on the subject in a really realistic way. I would LOVE to read a harem story, with fully realistic consequences, but I have yet to see one. And I read A LOT.

Also see all those ecchi, romance, etc. stories. And see how rare even simple breaks up are. They are almost always either idealized or too drastic in other directions for the sake of 'cheap drama'.

Also, the whole 'first partner is your true love' is also completely unrealistic nonsense, because most people go through at least a few boyfriend/girlfriend relationships before they find that one true partner they want to spend the rest of their lives with/marry. Of course, it may vary in culture, but in Western countries, this is how it clicks most of the time.

Indeed. Only reinforces how much of schizotech/culture Naruto is.

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It is weird, as we also see classic Western marriage (Hinata/Naruto pretty much marry in a Christian-like way), which confuses things even more, especially as many things there are inspired by Ancient Japan. So what it is? Polygamy? Monogamy? A mix of those? More detailed worldbuilding on this wouldn't hurt.

To be fair canon pairings in Naruto are pretty much all standard wife-husband relationships. What is also important to note, not even one yuri/yaoi official pairing. Are Elemental Nations homophobic?

Anyway, imagine writing a genuinely accurate medieval story in let's say Poland in the 14th century. You bring out your scenario to your book editors and mention you want to include a relationship between 14 years old and young 20 years old noble because it's historically accurate (it 100% is). I suspect that at best you would be warned to not even dare think about it, with that editor seriously considering calling the police on you in his head. So yeah, true historical accuracy in those stories is borderline impossible, so most people accept retconning here. Heck, most people have no idea that pedophilia as a concept is a very modern thing, and those people never heard of it that early on in history. So if you don't write accurate relationship dynamics here, most people wouldn't even notice it.

Looking back on it now, it looks like Anko had no faith that she could stop Daisuke from sleeping with other women and his own promises to the contrary were too good to be true.

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Make sense. It's not a bad explanation and angle for potential relationship issues/conflict. Also, bad communication is common with young couples, and it may not change at all later on as well. I can see this.

So if she couldn't stop him from doing that, she would instead try to control who it was that he slept with and would make sure it was people she actually liked or would stay in line. This isn't what I was going for, but that's what it looks like in retrospective. Toxic, ain't it?

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Also very ancient Japan-like. The first main wife was pretty much a master of the house (especially early on, where early Ancient Japan was in fact a matriarchy) and later on had complete control over 'female parts of responsibilities' including secondary wives under her. Heck, shinobi are very heavily focused on the hierarchy of their people. Genin, Chuunin, Tokubetsu Jonin, Jonin, ANBU... this is pretty much a military setting, with a heavy focus on loyalty and discipline. I'm not surprised Anko may be thinking this way, when this was pretty much her whole life and culture. Again, cultural perspective here is VERY important.

Asian cultures have a focus on the good of the group/society, while Westerners consider individual happiness/good a priority. It causes cultural frictions and misunderstandings. And us wondering 'what the heck is wrong with those people'.

Those marriages were pretty much never, ever set up because of the love. Politics, politics, and again politics. And with Daisuke being a VERY big deal, it was inevitable that politics in her logic would be included. Even if feelings thankfully were also there.

Also connect to it Japanese tendency to be very, very reserved with showing their feelings, and preferring to 'bottle up' their mental issues, and hide their true opinions. You can still find doctors there that will genuinely tell you 'that you should smile more and be happier' if you feel depressed for example like it fixes mental issues. There is a reason why Japan has one of the highest suicide ratios in the world.

Japan is a very weird mix of archaic and modern. Do you know that Japan still uses friggin fax machines? I suspect some of you may not even know/remember what a fax machine is. No surprises, as it's pretty much a standard old-style cable phone, that may also send messages via A4 paper pages.

So yeah, it's toxic. But not from their perspective really, with Naruto being heavily Japanese obviously.

We see it in canon as well. That whole Sasuke missing from his home for several years? Not surprising at all. Japanese are career-focused workaholics. Their career and success always take priority over healthy, balanced home life, with ridiculous pressure to succeed, and be 'useful to the society'. Add to this the stigma of women being socially pressured to marry around 26-28 years old at the latest or you are 'too old'. So this may also affect Anko the whole deal, that pressure to set up with someone NOW.

 

[Fulcon]

So this may also affect Anko the whole deal, that pressure to set up with someone NOW.

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So...basically, the marriage was so accurate it hurts?

I feel way better about it now.