So what's really going on in Worm?

[Ack]

As nobody else seems willing to do so, I've opened this thread.

It's a place where people whose ideas of Worm come from fanon can throw out those ideas and ask how is it that Worm even works, and those of us who have actually read it can fill them in.

Guardian54
edale
The Unicorn

So, would anyone like to start?

 

[Ack]

The tech transition (in terms of "what is common knowledge") from 1985 to 2011 is so vast that it gravely determines Taylor's reactions to more advanced technology.

That's why we're trying to thrash out roughly what half-decade Earth Bet tech is relative to ours.

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Yeah, but we don't have to do it in that thread.

Huh... I was under the impression like 50% of the Asians in Winslow were prospective ABB junior members? Given how gang-infested Taylor regularly describes Winslow as?

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If I had a drinking game where I took a drink every time you referred to fanon as canon, I'd be dead.

Taylor mentions gangs in Winslow, in conversation with someone else, once.

As you would know if you read Worm.

And given canonical gang fighting, we're requiring in the neighbourhood of 500 members each for ABB, Merchants and E88? (Up to 1K each, any more in a city of 300K-ish would be a total powder keg) Otherwise you wouldn't have the need for lieutenants, really, and Lung doesn't strike me as someone who wants to do ALL the paperwork (Lee can't do paperwork).

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Nope, nope and nope.

Gang clashes happen, but the big problem is when the capes clash.

E88 is the largest gang in the city, with the most capes.

And who says Lee can't do paperwork?

And about Coil not making waves and thus not drawing attention... do you think law enforcement likes to go after big names, or what they perceive as relatively easy kills? I think the latter. If they must be seen doing something, uprooting Coil should be that thing because of perceived lower risk for a decent press reward.

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Finding him is the big problem. Remember his power. He can stay under the radar by not doing anything that would draw major attention. And if anyone did get close, he uses his power (and information gleaned from his position as a strike squad commander) to shut that down before it goes anywhere.

FFS, read Worm..

 

[Biigoh]

Soooo... I heard about this thing... that All Seeing Eyes knows everything... it's like she's Sherlock Holmes in a cute blonde package or sumthing. :3

 

[edale]

Soooo... I heard about this thing... that All Seeing Eyes knows everything... it's like she's Sherlock Holmes in a cute blonde package or sumthing. :3

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I'm not 100% on this, but I think that All_Seeing_Eye being Lisa is canon.

The_Winged_One being Ziz is total fanon though.

 

[Aleph]

It's a place where people whose ideas of Worm come from fanon can throw out those ideas and ask how is it that Worm even works, and those of us who have actually read it can fill them in.

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What if you've read Worm but can no longer remember what is and isn't canon because of how pervasive the fanon has become? I legitimately cannot remember Panacea's actual characterization at this point.

So, serious question - is there a canonical list of where Protectorate Headquarters are placed? I know there's one in Vegas, but that's about all I can remember.

 

[Nekraa]

What if you've read Worm but can no longer remember what is and isn't canon because of how pervasive the fanon has become?

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The solution is then to reread Worm and then continue on Ward

Alternatively, look at the relevant chapters/arcs (character tags and google are helpful here).

 

[Guardian54]

And who says Lee can't do paperwork?

Finding him is the big problem. Remember his power. He can stay under the radar by not doing anything that would draw major attention. And if anyone did get close, he uses his power (and information gleaned from his position as a strike squad commander) to shut that down before it goes anywhere.

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Mental degradation.

The more slippery he seems, the more dangerous he seems to the PRT. "Too strong to affordably excise" is very close to "Too dangerous to leave alive" for folks more intelligent than Cauldron.

 

[ShadowStepper1300]

I'm not 100% on this, but I think that All_Seeing_Eye being Lisa is canon.

The_Winged_One being Ziz is total fanon though.

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Nope. Tattletale's canon username is Tt.

 

[Chastity]

I legitimately cannot remember Panacea's actual characterization at this point.

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She's a dumb bitch who makes the worst decision possible every time, not a poor woobie who destroys herself because she's such a good person.

I'm not 100% on this, but I think that All_Seeing_Eye being Lisa is canon.

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I can't even find All_Seeing_Eye with some googling/searching of the text itself, much less confirm it's Tattletale. Toss it in the fanon hole.

 

[edale]

Nope. Tattletale's canon username is Tt.

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IIRC, that was a throwaway account only used to contact Taylor, not one used throughout the fic.

 

[ShadowStepper1300]

IIRC, that was a throwaway account only used to contact Taylor, not one used throughout the fic.

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Still the only one she uses in canon.

 

[edale]

Mental degradation.

The more slippery he seems, the more dangerous he seems to the PRT. "Too strong to affordably excise" is very close to "Too dangerous to leave alive" for folks more intelligent than Cauldron.

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PRT's kinda busy dealing with Nazi's, druggies, rage dragons, and being SEVERELY outnumbered on nearly all fronts.

 

[Guardian54]

PRT's kinda busy dealing with Nazi's, druggies, rage dragons, and being SEVERELY outnumbered on nearly all fronts.

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"If he doesn't make big waves, then capturing him should be simpler than dealing with the cape-centered gangs, still a major PR coup" type thinking applies.

 

[Ack]

"If he doesn't make big waves, then capturing him should be simpler than dealing with the cape-centered gangs, still a major PR coup" type thinking applies.

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Finding him is the problem. Then, once you corner his men, you discover that their rifles have undermounted lasers that cut through steel. And if they fail to make a clean getaway, he drops that timeline and goes with the one where they didn't run into the cops/PRT/heroes.

What if you've read Worm but can no longer remember what is and isn't canon because of how pervasive the fanon has become? I legitimately cannot remember Panacea's actual characterization at this point.

So, serious question - is there a canonical list of where Protectorate Headquarters are placed? I know there's one in Vegas, but that's about all I can remember.

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Top sixty most populous cities in the US. Pretty sure I've got the list in my Worm Resources Thread.

Mental degradation.

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There's no actual cite to say that he's incapable of reading, writing or filling out paperwork. Just that he's barely able to think for himself.

The more slippery he seems, the more dangerous he seems to the PRT. "Too strong to affordably excise" is very close to "Too dangerous to leave alive" for folks more intelligent than Cauldron.

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The PRT canonically left the Merchants alone. A gang that's literally based around drug dealing. Coil is far less newsworthy than them. Besides, as I keep saying, he has other people do his dirty work for him.

Nope. Tattletale's canon username is Tt.

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That's not her username. It's just what she used as a 'signature' for her PM.

 

[The Unicorn]

I'm not 100% on this, but I think that All_Seeing_Eye being Lisa is canon.

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The only ones whose PHO ID are canon are Greg (XxVoid_CowboyxX) and Garrote (GstringGirrl). Every other PHO ID (well other than Vista positing in public, at least post Leviathan) is fanon. Including All_Seeing_Eye and Tin Mother.

Nope. Tattletale's canon username is Tt.

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Nope. we don't know what her username is, just that in a post she wrote to Taylor in the "connections section" she signed her post Tt.
https://parahumans.wordpress.com/2011/07/09/insinuation-2-2/

The second post was in the 'Connections' section of the message board, where rescued damsels left their contact information for their dashing heroes, where conventions and fan gatherings were organized and where people posted job offers for capes and the cape-obsessed. Most were cryptic or vague, referring to stuff only the people in question would know.
The message was titled, simply, "Bug"
I clicked it and waited impatiently for the outdated system and overloaded school modem to load up the page. What I got was brief.

Subject: Bug
Owe you one. Would like to repay the favor. Meet?
Send a message,
Tt.​

The post was followed by two pages of people commenting. Three people suggested it was something important, while a half dozen more people decried them as tinfoil hats, Parahumans.net's term for conspiracy theorists.

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"If he doesn't make big waves, then capturing him should be simpler than dealing with the cape-centered gangs, still a major PR coup" type thinking applies.

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Only by people who have no idea what they're talking about. "Isn't making waves" does not mean "won't resist arrest", it can mean quite the opposite. It will also mean the prosecutor will have a harder time convicting in the unlikely event you can capture him, and the fact he's not "making waves" makes it more difficult to capture him because he wouldn't be interacting with others publicly and being visible to make it easier to track him.

Top sixty most populous cities in the US. Pretty sure I've got the list in my Worm Resources Thread.

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Seriously? The PRT simply put a base in the to 60 cities? Okay.
Do you know how many bases they have in Canada?

There's no actual cite to say that he's incapable of reading, writing or filling out paperwork. Just that he's barely able to think for himself.

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Barring some WoG I'm not aware of, I'm pretty sure there isn't even that - just people reading too much into Jack Slash's comment (and assuming that he was right)

That's not her username. It's just what she used as a 'signature' for her PM.

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Not a PM, but otherwise correct.

 

[Ack]

Seriously? The PRT simply put a base in the to 60 cities? Okay.
Do you know how many bases they have in Canada?

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To quote (this was cut & pasted from my original source):

PRT Department Designations

The West/East/North/East-North-East designations for departments are for special cases. It goes dept 1-67 in order of the US's largest cities to the smaller ones (with Anchorage as #64). Special cases include the Canadian cities, priority places for departments that didn't fit with the order, and quarantine zones. Mexico would be included in the special cases if it were to join the PRT, very possibly with a separate set of designations.

Canadian cities were added as part of a treaty, but given special designations (Vancouver (NW), Edmonton (N), Toronto (NE). Montreal proved complicated, added during the treaty but late to get implemented). Brockton Bay (ENE), Pueblo (F), Jasper (J) were hives of scum and villainy and warranted special attention. Others include quarantine zones (PRT Departments Q1-Q7), such as Gary (unexplained explosion in villain population), Freedom Indiana (Pastor), Eagleton (Machine Army), Ellisburg (Nilbog), Flint (Redacted), Gallup (Villain Group) and Madison (Simurgh), in that order.

1. New York, New York.
2. Los Angeles, California.
3. Chicago, Illinois.
4. Houston, Texas.
5. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
6. Phoenix, Arizona.
7. San Antonio, Texas.
8. San Diego, California.
9. Dallas, Texas.
10. San Jose, California.
11. Jacksonville, Florida.
12. Indianapolis, Indiana.
13. San Francisco, California.
14. Austin, Texas.
15. Columbus, Ohio.
16. Fort Worth, Texas.
17. Charlotte, North Carolina.
18. Detroit, Michigan.
19. El Paso, Texas.
20. Memphis, Tennessee.
21. Baltimore, Maryland.
22. Boston, Massachusetts.
23. Seattle, Washington.
24. Washington, District of Columbia.
25. Nashville, Tennessee.
26. Denver, Colorado.
27. Louisville, Kentucky.
28. Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
29. Portland, Oregon.
30. Las Vegas, Nevada.
31. Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
32. Albuquerque, New Mexico.
33. Tucson, Arizona.
34. Fresno, California.
35. Sacramento, California.
36. Long Beach, California.
37. Kansas City, Missouri.
38. Mesa, Arizona.
39. Virginia Beach, Virginia.
40. Atlanta, Georgia.
41. Colorado Springs, Colorado
42. Omaha, Nebraska.
43. Raleigh, North Carolina.
44. Miami, Florida.
45. Cleveland, Ohio.
46. Tulsa, Oklahoma.
47. Oakland, California.
48. Minneapolis, Minnesota.
49. Wichita, Kansas.
50. Arlington, Texas.
51. Bakersfield, California.
52. New Orleans, Louisiana.
53. Honolulu, Hawaii.
54. Anaheim, California.
55. Tampa, Florida.
56. Aurora, Colorado.
57. Santa Ana, California.
58. St. Louis, Missouri.
59. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
60. Corpus Christi, Texas.
61. Riverside, California.
62. Cincinnati, Ohio.
63. Lexington, Kentucky.
64. Anchorage, Alaska.
65. Stockton, California.
66. Toledo, Ohio.
67. St. Paul, Minnesota.

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[pepperjack]

She's a dumb bitch who makes the worst decision possible every time, not a poor woobie who destroys herself because she's such a good person.

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I re-read Worm recently. I strongly disagree with you on this point.

 

[Valor]

I re-read Worm recently. I strongly disagree with you on this point.

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I re-read the Panacea interludes recently. I strongly disagree with your opinion.

 

[pepperjack]

I re-read the Panacea interludes recently. I strongly disagree with your opinion.

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Just so long as the only voice in the thread speaking from a position of familiarity with the text isn't "Panacea is a dumb bitch," I feel my work here is done.

 

[Aleph]

To quote (this was cut & pasted from my original source):

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Thanks! That's a great list for anyone trying to write Wormfics in the universe rather than just keeping it in Brockton Bay. Especially Gary. There's like seventy thousand people there - what happened that got it quarantined?

 

[ShadowStepper1300]

Thanks! That's a great list for anyone trying to write Wormfics in the universe rather than just keeping it in Brockton Bay. Especially Gary. There's like seventy thousand people there - what happened that got it quarantined?

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A massive explosion in the villain population.

 

[Aleph]

A massive explosion in the villain population.

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Yes, I got that part. But what exactly does that mean? How did a town a fifth of the size of Brockton Bay get so many supervillains that the US government threw up its hands and said "No Man's Land."

 

[Guardian54]

Yes, I got that part. But what exactly does that mean? How did a town a fifth of the size of Brockton Bay get so many supervillains that the US government threw up its hands and said "No Man's Land."

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And, of course, why they didn't make an example of it to remind villains elsewhere that "try seceding too overtly and the gloves come off"?

Because that's totally what they would happily do before writing off an area unless there were no viable survivors (Ellisburg, Madison).

Otherwise if just a large enough villain population is enough, Gesselschaft should send capes to swarm New England cities regularly to get the whole region walled off.

 

[redfog]

She's a dumb bitch who makes the worst decision possible every time, not a poor woobie who destroys herself because she's such a good person.

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Panacea was mean to Skitter. Skitter threatened to kill an entire roomful of people though, so I'm going to say that bad idea was entirely justified. The rest of it was just the world picking up her emotional baggage and beating her to death with it. You might as well call Taylor a dumb bitch for punching Emma in her smug face.

 

[Guardian54]

You might as well call Taylor a dumb bitch for punching Emma in her smug face.

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I would. Amy might not be the BEST at decision-making, but compared to Taylor she's godly at it.

Being taught to bottle it up forever even while they keep piling shit on you is for what Evaluator Kael calls "the chattering classes", designed to keep them downtrodden and easy to push around. A bookish person who's actually learnt anything from what they've read (and is not a total tech-head, which Taylor is demonstrably not) should be able to pick up some of this and NOT fall in the "better person" fallacy.

If they've stopped piling or even trying to pile shit on you, sure, you might have better things to do than to bother with revenge (and revenge might be too troublesome, but if they aren't stopping? Then don't bottle it up, it'll jsut result in you exploding and getting yourself in trouble one day one way or another. At the very least plan--and with how bad the Trio tend to be depicted it's not going to stay at just planning--out how to get back at them, preferably in a way that can't be traced to you, before you reach your breaking point and it gets you in trouble.

I would have gone with taking some mosquitoes, visiting some Merchants in Winslow, and giving Emma some blood-borne diseases. Completely deniable and impossible to obtain proof for barring a whole mountain of Tinker bullshit, which they're not going to pull in for some random girl getting a few unlucky mosquito bites.

 

[redfog]

I would. Amy might not be the BEST at decision-making, but compared to Taylor she's godly at it.

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I was more talking about the concussion-fueled punch. Expecting her to be rational and making optimal decisions there would itself be stupid, but you're right the stuff leading up to it and that came after it were very dumb. Especially letting the divorce lawyer have time to poison the well.

 

[pepperjack]

Some of this talk about how dumb characters supposedly are makes me wonder what folks think a novel of their own life would look like, and how they expect their own actions would be judged.

 

[edale]

I was more talking about the concussion-fueled punch. Expecting her to be rational and making optimal decisions there would itself be stupid, but you're right the stuff leading up to it and that came after it were very dumb. Especially letting the divorce lawyer have time to poison the well.

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Guardian hasn't read Worm, he has no way to know that that punch happened while Taylor was concussed (especially as I don't think I've seen a single fanfic that still has that concussion in it).

It's why we keep telling him to read Worm, so he can know things like that.

 

[Guardian54]

Some of this talk about how dumb characters supposedly are makes me wonder what folks think a novel of their own life would look like, and how they expect their own actions would be judged.

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"Literally Everyone Is A Dumbass" would be a trope if enough such novels were written.

Guardian hasn't read Worm, he has no way to know that that punch happened while Taylor was concussed (especially as I don't think I've seen a single fanfic that still has that concussion in it).

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The uproar from authors having such a thing still happen and readers arguing that Taylor normally has better self-control than that (read: no cracked valves in the high pressure bottle that she didn't bother putting a safety valve in) is enough to inform me about the concussion.

 

[Chastity]

Some of this talk about how dumb characters supposedly are makes me wonder what folks think a novel of their own life would look like, and how they expect their own actions would be judged.

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It would be excruciatingly boring and all my mistakes would be petty mistakes of inaction like "didn't immediately sell his college textbooks when he was done with the class." I don't even know how I would even start being as much of a fuck up as Amy.