Starwars discussion thread

[OverReactionGuy]

Because I didn't see one not for fic recs and stuff, I made it myself. Discuss about starwars here. If I missed an actual thread for this I'll ask for it to be locked though and just move to the old one.

Anywho.

Dude, the Force is created by life itself. You're advocating that all life everywhere die. The Force is a part of the universe and to live in the universe, you have to accept it.

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Apparently there is life that don't have force and was a major plot point in the extended universe before it was made non canon. Forgot what the race was though.

 

[vyor]

Apparently there is life that don't have force and was a major plot point in the extended universe before it was made non canon. Forgot what the race was though.

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Yup, and there are those things that cut you off from the force too.

 

[OverReactionGuy]

Yup, and there are those things that cut you off from the force too.

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Yep.

Anyway I'm wondering if I should get this thread locked because I found the starwars discussion thread that isn't this one. Or I guess this one can be moved to the rants thread and renamed to Starwars rant thread or something.

Here's a link tot he other discussion thread that's been talking about rogue one currently.

https://forum.questionablequesting.com/threads/star-wars-spoilers-allowed-so-beware.2713/

Like in march or something. So a month ago.

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I should probably stop doing things when I'm basically asleep when I'm awake.

 

[MadGreenSon]

Apparently there is life that don't have force and was a major plot point in the extended universe before it was made non canon. Forgot what the race was though.

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Yup, and there are those things that cut you off from the force too.

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The Yuuzhan Vong and the ysalimiri are both part of the Force. The ysalimiri can even be sensed in the Force when they die. The Yuuzhan Vong, on the other hand, were artificially separated from conventional uses of it by the living planet that was formerly at the center of their culture. The Vong's separation from conventional Force channels could be worked around once the adept in question either learned how, or had artificial assistance. This was done because apparently, in their natural state, the Yuuzhan Vong were Force sensitive as all hell and it was their punishment.

The ysalimiri are a more interesting case, in that they were prey for a predator that hunted using the Force, so they evolved the ability to muffle Force senses and such as a defense because they were sessile and couldn't avoid predators any other way. The ysalimiri use the Force constantly.

 

[vyor]

The Yuuzhan Vong and the ysalimiri are both part of the Force. The ysalimiri can even be sensed in the Force when they die. The Yuuzhan Vong, on the other hand, were artificially separated from conventional uses of it by the living planet that was formerly at the center of their culture. The Vong's separation from conventional Force channels could be worked around once the adept in question either learned how, or had artificial assistance. This was done because apparently, in their natural state, the Yuuzhan Vong were Force sensitive as all hell and it was their punishment.

The ysalimiri are a more interesting case, in that they were prey for a predator that hunted using the Force, so they evolved the ability to muffle Force senses and such as a defense because they were sessile and couldn't avoid predators any other way. The ysalimiri use the Force constantly.

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Ok.

The main character of KOTOR2 is a hole in the force, it was ripped from them.

 

[OverReactionGuy]

Ok.

The main character of KOTOR2 is a hole in the force, it was ripped from them.

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That was reconned actually in the MMO. Or she at least got her force powers back.

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Bioware didn't like her special awesomeness compared to Revan.

 

[vyor]

That was reconned actually in the MMO. Or she at least got her force powers back.

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Bioware didn't like her special awesomeness compared to Revan.

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then how did she survive nihilus???

 

[MadGreenSon]

The main character of KOTOR2 is a hole in the force, it was ripped from them.

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Was she actually without the Force, or was her connection screwed up? Because recall a lot of Force use by the main character in that game. A lot of the exposition on what exactly was up with the Exile was suspect once it was revealed to have come from a less than reliable source.

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then how did she survive nihilus???

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Chosen One effect.

 

[vyor]

Was she actually without the Force, or was her connection screwed up? Because recall a lot of Force use by the main character in that game. A lot of the exposition on what exactly was up with the Exile was suspect once it was revealed to have come from a less than reliable source.

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She was a wound in the force and did something with the force she eat from others when they died that allowed her to use powers.

 

[MadGreenSon]

She was a wound in the force and did something with the force she eat from others when they died that allowed her to use powers.

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Even if what Traya said was 100% accurate, which I doubt, it's still not nearly the same thing as being totally without the Force. It's a deeply fucked up way of connecting with it, but a wound is still part of something. It's just not a good part.

 

[Iandude0]

Was she actually without the Force, or was her connection screwed up? Because recall a lot of Force use by the main character in that game. A lot of the exposition on what exactly was up with the Exile was suspect once it was revealed to have come from a less than reliable source.

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She was a hole in the force. She's basically a saner version of nihlus who didn't want to destroy the universe.

Her ability to use the force was because those she worked with would have their own connection to the force wrapped around the hole she represented in the force sorta like a black hole drags mass.

And Kreia is not the only one to call her such. If you gather the Jedi Council in game they basically say that and admit that because of what you as you need to be stripped of the force.

 

[MadGreenSon]

She was a hole in the force. She's basically a saner version of nihlus who didn't want to destroy the universe.

Her ability to use the force was because those she worked with would have their own connection to the force wrapped around the hole she represented in the force sorta like a black hole drags mass.

And Kreia is not the only one to call her such. If you gather the Jedi Council in game they basically say that and admit that because of what you as you need to be stripped of the force.

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My point is that whatever the screwed up way of doing it was, she was still interacting with the Force actively and could both effect and be effected by it.

 

[vyor]

My point is that whatever the screwed up way of doing it was, she was still interacting with the Force actively and could both effect and be effected by it.

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A hole in a bucket affects the water in the bucket, that doesn't mean that the hole is a part of the bucket.

 

[MadGreenSon]

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A hole in a bucket affects the water in the bucket, that doesn't mean that the hole is a part of the bucket.

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The Exile and Nihlus interacted with the Force far more than just being a "hole".

 

[vyor]

The Exile and Nihlus interacted with the Force far more than just being a "hole".

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That's how they were described.

 

[MadGreenSon]

That's how they were described.

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Yes. The description lacked a bit of nuance and didn't match what we saw, which is why I tend to think about it rather than accepting it at face value.

 

[OverReactionGuy]

Huh, guess Meetra was unreconed as a wound in the force. Ish.

She severed her connection tot he force but the wound in the force that the planet Malch whatever became surrounded her even though she was deaden to the force. She then proceeds to get her connection back to the force and through that hole she became a mary sue that can instantly learn force techniques and lightsaber styles masters spent years honing.

Or something. Pretty much the same in that rather cut on content game.

When she first came out in the MMO everyone was in an outrage about her though due to said retcon... so the wiki may or may not be accurate or something. Or they went and fixed things. -shrugs-

Here's Meetra and what people have been talking about with the whole wound in the force thing.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Meetra_Surik

The hilarious thing about it is, she's like original commander Shepard. She literally talked an enemy(Darth Scion) into committing suicide.

 

[Space Penguin]

Huh, guess Meetra was unreconed as a wound in the force. Ish.

She severed her connection tot he force but the wound in the force that the planet Malch whatever became surrounded her even though she was deaden to the force. She then proceeds to get her connection back to the force and through that hole she became a mary sue that can instantly learn force techniques and lightsaber styles masters spent years honing.

Or something. Pretty much the same in that rather cut on content game.

When she first came out in the MMO everyone was in an outrage about her though due to said retcon... so the wiki may or may not be accurate or something. Or they went and fixed things. -shrugs-

Here's Meetra and what people have been talking about with the whole wound in the force thing.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Meetra_Surik

The hilarious thing about it is, she's like original commander Shepard. She literally talked an enemy(Darth Scion) into committing suicide.

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From my understanding her whole thing was like the in-universe example of how numerous MC's of various movies or books or whatever eventually become OP by just killing tons of people and learn stuff that would take everyone else years.

 

[OverReactionGuy]

Seems like the guy who did the Kotor story wrote a novel called Revan that some people weren't happy about since he fucked up her character too and just used her to prop up Revan on the totem pole. Apparently.

Haven't read the novel myself, but it sounds horrible.

 

[MadGreenSon]

From my understanding her whole thing was like the in-universe example of how numerous MC's of various movies or books or whatever eventually become OP by just killing tons of people and learn stuff that would take everyone else years.

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It works well enough, should you feel the need to explain regular video game stuff. I'd say that the first game had a better explanation with Revan slowly getting over the mind wipe, but it works

 

[Spoit]

Speaking from a personal standpoint, as someone who grew up on the Extended Universe Novels which are now Legacy, here's my take on the Mandalorians. Intellectually and logically, I understand how dumb the Mandalorians are. I get that they're the galaxy's buttmonkeys most of the time. However, that doesn't change the fact that I ultimately end up viewing them how I want to view them, and more importantly, how it feels that the writers/creators of Star Wars WANT me to view them.

Because despite their constant failures, Mandalorians are held up as a third pillar to the Jedi and Sith almost all the time. They're the cool nonforce using badass to "equal" the Jedi and Sith. What do you do when you need a Jedi killed or a Fallen Jedi hunted/captured? Well only a Mandalorian could possibly do that job right? That's not even remotely true, but its what the Star Wars universe keeps trying to shove down our throats.

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Like I said before. Fuck Traviss. It was one thing with her few thousand clone army being able to fight a galactic war, but when they had her write stories about the jedi, and couldn't restrain herself with the mando wank? Yeah, that's when I dropped the EU completely.

 

[MadGreenSon]

Like I said before. Fuck Traviss. It was one thing with her few thousand clone army being able to fight a galactic war, but when they had her write stories about the jedi, and couldn't restrain herself with the mando wank? Yeah, that's when I dropped the EU completely.

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Agree with you in general, but there was a funny thing in the Legacy of the Force books. She spent a few novels enthusiastically jerking the Mandalorians off, then another writer got to write the bit where some of the proud children of Mandalore actually fought a fully trained Force wielder.

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Jacen Solo took their two dollar asses and made change. Like they weren't even that big a deal, he kicked the shit out of them on his way to a real fight.

God Traviss was a fucking idiot. We have her to blame for codifying a lot of the Mandalorian fanboy bullshit.

 

[vyor]

I mean... canonicaly they did nearly bring the republic to its knees, only losing when Revan kicked their shit in.

 

[MadGreenSon]

I mean... canonicaly they did nearly bring the republic to its knees, only losing when Revan kicked their shit in.

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Canonically, it's weirder than that. They never really got to any of the core systems or anything, but everyone was acting like the boot was on their face. I'm not even sure what the hell was up with that, to be honest. Maybe whatever forces were facing them got the hell kicked out of them and everyone coreward just figured doom was at hand until Revan jumped in.

It's actually strange, maybe the Republic military had a lot of embedded news crews or something that got everyone stirred up.

 

[vyor]

Canonically, it's weirder than that. They never really got to any of the core systems or anything, but everyone was acting like the boot was on their face. I'm not even sure what the hell was up with that, to be honest. Maybe whatever forces were facing them got the hell kicked out of them and everyone coreward just figured doom was at hand until Revan jumped in.

It's actually strange, maybe the Republic military had a lot of embedded news crews or something that got everyone stirred up.

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They were probably smashing agriworlds or whatever.

 

[MadGreenSon]

They were probably smashing agriworlds or whatever.

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Maybe.

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Does Star Wars have things like agriworlds? It's actually a little vague about how the ecumenopolis worlds get their supplies. But if they were cutting off the routes to those planets in the core, I could see a lot of politically important people losing their shit.

 

[vyor]

Maybe.

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Does Star Wars have things like agriworlds? It's actually a little vague about how the ecumenopolis worlds get their supplies. But if they were cutting off the routes to those planets in the core, I could see a lot of politically important people losing their shit.

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They do.

And even when pushed back to Mandalore they put up enough resistance that it stopped the entire republic military for a good bit.

 

[aja318]

Actually Exile getting Force powers from killing living things is false as first level up is from droid fight (it's also part of narrative so no game mechanics excuse). There is other explanation for how it worked, one part was that jedi grow by overcoming challenges and trials of pretty much any kind and fact that MC was special due to ability to forme Force Bonds and was already bonded to Treya (that Exile was at least knight also help with rapid growth). On the other hand if we believe what Treya says about how jedi in general and Exile in particular work (that does have some support) then there is no Sith Empire, no phisical "True Sith" and reason Revan left Ebon Hawk and roids is because he went to face enemy that can't be fought using such tools. Incidentally at the end of KOTOR2 after you talk Treya into giving up, it's implied that Exile is going to search for Revan woth intention of talking some sense into him and not joining some fight with some evil empire.


As for reason Republic was so worried about Mandalorians it was because they set outer rim on fire and were going inward before Jedi took control of army and started to push back ending in effectively destroying Mandalorians as people, leaving them as scattered bands that never really recovered. True blooded mando warriors were dieing breed after Jedi Civil War that followed Mandalorian War with at most some groups adopting what scraps pf culture they could scavenge.

Was she actually without the Force, or was her connection screwed up? Because recall a lot of Force use by the main character in that game. A lot of the exposition on what exactly was up with the Exile was suspect once it was revealed to have come from a less than reliable source.

Chosen One effect.

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Kind of both, there was similar effect to being wound in the Force and self inflicted severing of connection with Force that was only restored after forming a Force Bond with trained Force user. It's part of reason why when Masters you are assembling tried to sever your connection to force they failed, because there was nothing to cut.

 

[OverReactionGuy]

Incidentally at the end of KOTOR2 after you talk Treya into giving up, it's implied that Exile is going to search for Revan woth intention of talking some sense into him and not joining some fight with some evil empire.

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Ironically, the MMO kinda fucked that whole talk some sense into Revan thing up.

Instead he, exile and some guy named Scourge(Cmon people, Scourge?!) fought the true Sith emperor. Well, Exile went first and got her ass kicked, think Scourge did to and then Revan proceeds to show that he's an even match for the emperor for some time.

Then something happens, Exile gets literately backstabbed by Scourge(such a trustworthy name) and discarded like she's a piece of trash and then Revan gets captured or something.

Haven't read said novel myself, but I did read some reviews of it and a few rants.

Apparently it was all part of Scourges plan of defeating the Emperor who likely could have been killed right then and there if Revan and Exile didn't fucking fight him one on one.

 

[aja318]

Ironically, the MMO kinda fucked that whole talk some sense into Revan thing up.

Instead he, exile and some guy named Scourge(Cmon people, Scourge?!) fought the true Sith emperor. Well, Exile went first and got her ass kicked, think Scourge did to and then Revan proceeds to show that he's an even match for the emperor for some time.

Then something happens, Exile gets literately backstabbed by Scourge(such a trustworthy name) and discarded like she's a piece of trash and then Revan gets captured or something.

Haven't read said novel myself, but I did read some reviews of it and a few rants.

Apparently it was all part of Scourges plan of defeating the Emperor who likely could have been killed right then and there if Revan and Exile didn't fucking fight him one on one.

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I did read short summation of plot of that book on SB and also wasn't impressed, what I remember is in short Exile is nothing special, Revan is best wver and "Emperor" is Super Sith who can out Nihilus Nihilus without suffering from inherent flaw of his technique/style.