The Skittering Chaos (Worm/Hazbin Hotel)

[Thread Necromancer]

Another thought: Once the cult starts growing in membership and power, the Wardens will have an actual reason for trying to unperson Taylor and suppress the idea of Khepri. Everyone knows 'Speak of the Devil and he shall appear'. but in this case once she has enough earth-side influence invoking Khepri makes her aware of those who speak of her and can answer their requests even without a formal summoning.

Even through their internet. They have the physical servers, but even directly deleting the data from the drives just doesn't seem to get rid of it. Somehow, there almost seems to be a non-physical element and it is playing havoc with their ability to control the narrative and restrict the flow of information like they want.

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It's actually just Jim from tech support reuploading the data, not because he's in the cult, but because no one told him they were deleting this data and when he notices a problem, he just reloads the backup bringing the data back.

Edit: But in all seriousness that likely would be something of an annoyance for any demon that ever reaches popularity like Satan. The ability to answer questions outside of direct connections, whether intentional or unintentional likely won't be a big thing if it shows up at all. My reasoning for the unpersoning is that Society is now being run from a top down perspective with Number Man of all people in charge. Way I see it, Number man is going to run things in a way that results in the best numbers, not the most free and best society. That's part of the reason I have in my head they have a massive supply problem despite building a massive mega city. They prioritized construction because the numbers looked good at the time for them to do it.

There isn't much understanding of the human part of the problem as I see it with a major focus on numbers. Maximize survivors with manageable unrest? Build the entire thing but don't build the supply lines yet as they can spend a while rioting while we sort things out. Keep morale high so that less people off themselves? Focus on the human spirit and how everyone came together. Get nay-sayers? Silence them. They don't go away, prosecute them so they don't say it in places of influence as much to keep morale high. They still don't get the message? Deal with them while trying to clean up the Fallen, they are a splinter cult after all.

 

[24caratcoal]

It's actually just Jim from tech support reuploading the data, not because he's in the cult, but because no one told him they were deleting this data and when he notices a problem, he just reloads the backup bringing the data back.

Edit: But in all seriousness that likely would be something of an annoyance for any demon that ever reaches popularity like Satan. The ability to answer questions outside of direct connections, whether intentional or unintentional likely won't be a big thing if it shows up at all. My reasoning for the unpersoning is that Society is now being run from a top down perspective with Number Man of all people in charge. Way I see it, Number man is going to run things in a way that results in the best numbers, not the most free and best society. That's part of the reason I have in my head they have a massive supply problem despite building a massive mega city. They prioritized construction because the numbers looked good at the time for them to do it.

There isn't much understanding of the human part of the problem as I see it with a major focus on numbers. Maximize survivors with manageable unrest? Build the entire thing but don't build the supply lines yet as they can spend a while rioting while we sort things out. Keep morale high so that less people off themselves? Focus on the human spirit and how everyone came together. Get nay-sayers? Silence them. They don't go away, prosecute them so they don't say it in places of influence as much to keep morale high. They still don't get the message? Deal with them while trying to clean up the Fallen, they are a splinter cult after all.

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Why do I feel that WhirlyBasket didn't put half so much thought as this into his sequel?

 

[Thread Necromancer]

Why do I feel that WhirlyBasket didn't put half so much thought as this into his sequel?

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Half the stuff I am making up about the city are partially to have the place be hostile to the cult as that is a major part of the story, the other part is my trying to justify some of the dumb stuff that is within the city and the plot holes the more I learn about them. The management of the city will eventually fix all the problems, as is seen with the economy stabilizing one way or another, but the mayor of the city itself is married to Numberman, a member of cauldron, that shit should not be allowed to slide but yet it is, and now it is easy as hell for Numberman to manipulate his wife into being the mayor where she follows along with Accords plans while Numberman manipulates other things in the background. How this wasn't a plot point in Ward likely has to do with not taking it into consideration. But you have this immoral guy who is defacto in charge of the city through his wife, who is slavishly following the plan of a dead man, and is easily able to manipulate things for the best numerical outcome. Sure the workers will be pissed and stuff but if they give out the proper incentives to create those supply lines, than the numbers say that they will lose their trade deals with other dimensions and the faux economy that he is setting up will be destroyed and he will have to start all over again, likely ending up with more people dying as a response.

Way I see it, a majority of the problems are but a thing to deal with while the Megacity's administration is setting up for the extreme long game. The thing is, that they have to also try to deal with the problems. That's why the Wardens are off dealing with african warlords that pose no actual threat to them, it's because statistically, there could be a major problem later that they have to deal with. It's like sending off a majority of your military off in the early game of civ and constantly fighting barbarians off far away from your boarders because after you finally finish these next three wonders, you are going to make settlers and colonize that place, with only one unit left at home to protect all your improvements as your people are unhappy and more and more barbarian encampments are spawning at home. Sure you will be better off in the very long term, but if your city falls to the barbarians then you are going to lose everything and all that time you spent on that has been a waste.

That's what the Mega city feels like, an extreme long con that gets fucked up and everything that they had done was for nothing.

 

[shade argost]

My guess for the communication thing between Demons and their cults is that it needs to be formalised and/or deliberate in some way so accidental question answering doesn't occur.

 

[Night Hunter]

Half the stuff I am making up about the city are partially to have the place be hostile to the cult as that is a major part of the story, the other part is my trying to justify some of the dumb stuff that is within the city and the plot holes the more I learn about them. The management of the city will eventually fix all the problems, as is seen with the economy stabilizing one way or another, but the mayor of the city itself is married to Numberman, a member of cauldron, that shit should not be allowed to slide but yet it is, and now it is easy as hell for Numberman to manipulate his wife into being the mayor where she follows along with Accords plans while Numberman manipulates other things in the background. How this wasn't a plot point in Ward likely has to do with not taking it into consideration. But you have this immoral guy who is defacto in charge of the city through his wife, who is slavishly following the plan of a dead man, and is easily able to manipulate things for the best numerical outcome. Sure the workers will be pissed and stuff but if they give out the proper incentives to create those supply lines, than the numbers say that they will lose their trade deals with other dimensions and the faux economy that he is setting up will be destroyed and he will have to start all over again, likely ending up with more people dying as a response.

Way I see it, a majority of the problems are but a thing to deal with while the Megacity's administration is setting up for the extreme long game. The thing is, that they have to also try to deal with the problems. That's why the Wardens are off dealing with african warlords that pose no actual threat to them, it's because statistically, there could be a major problem later that they have to deal with. It's like sending off a majority of your military off in the early game of civ and constantly fighting barbarians off far away from your boarders because after you finally finish these next three wonders, you are going to make settlers and colonize that place, with only one unit left at home to protect all your improvements as your people are unhappy and more and more barbarian encampments are spawning at home. Sure you will be better off in the very long term, but if your city falls to the barbarians then you are going to lose everything and all that time you spent on that has been a waste.

That's what the Mega city feels like, an extreme long con that gets fucked up and everything that they had done was for nothing.

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Consider the fact shards influence they hosts to promote chaos as well.

 

[Thread Necromancer]

Consider the fact shards influence they hosts to promote chaos as well.

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I was going to include that in tbe explaination as well but I guess I wanted to make it seem less shard influenced and more that number man's shard made an extremely good chouce like QA did.

 

[doomlord9]

I was thinking less 'call Her Name and a swarm of hellbugs answer' and more having the Wardens chasing down a group of cultists and when they plead for Khepri to help them she answers by giving them a hint of her greatest strength, her local omniscience. Now the cultists, not a single parahuman among them, are each the equivalent of a combat Thinker and can easily find escape routes or even overcome less combat oriented parahumans.

Time and again, people escape persecution simply by invoking Khepri's name, and as knowledge spreads off this phenomenon the Wardens become more and more desperate to suppress the Name that is eroding their authority and control more and more.

This would all be well in the future when Taylor has become a full Overlord as well as having already established a full blown cult in the living world, giving her enough influence to even hear requests in her name.

As for having too many requests to be able to answer them.....really? Taylor, the ultimate Multitasking Queen, will be overwhelmed by anything less than several hundred billion requests all at the same time?

 

[Thread Necromancer]

I was thinking less 'call Her Name and a swarm of hellbugs answer' and more having the Wardens chasing down a group of cultists and when they plead for Khepri to help them she answers by giving them a hint of her greatest strength, her local omniscience. Now the cultists, not a single parahuman among them, are each the equivalent of a combat Thinker and can easily find escape routes or even overcome less combat oriented parahumans.

Time and again, people escape persecution simply by invoking Khepri's name, and as knowledge spreads off this phenomenon the Wardens become more and more desperate to suppress the Name that is eroding their authority and control more and more.

This would all be well in the future when Taylor has become a full Overlord as well as having already established a full blown cult in the living world, giving her enough influence to even hear requests in her name.

As for having too many requests to be able to answer them.....really? Taylor, the ultimate Multitasking Queen, will be overwhelmed by anything less than several hundred billion requests all at the same time?

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I was more refering to how such a system would be set up, not Taylor's ability. What you are saying is definitely better than what I asumed you meant. Which was someone just says it and suddemly Taylor is listening in abruptly. That makes much more sense and sounds about right what with Taylor's connections to the real still being around and her having a large interest in the real. When I was refering to there being many annoying requests I was refering to Satan more being annoyed by it than being unable to do anything. Invoking her name with intent? That more along the lines I was thinking of with them drawing some of Skitter's power using magic circles like how they summon demons in Blue Exorcist.

Edit: I haven't thought incredibly hard on how Taylor uses her influence beyond acting like a D&D patreon but I am thinking a bit of possibly having an option for people who are less dedicated and don't wish to suicide and cone back as a demon possesing their own body. Perhaps something to do with magical scrolls with embracing demonhood as a major power boost.

 

[VisV]

Uhhhhh that stolas bit with the portals though...

High level demons are some serious bizness...

Which means it should be fun when Taylor finally takes her rightful spot as an overlord!

Also... Stolas has proven charlie correct about demons not being 100 percent evil.

 

[Thread Necromancer]

Uhhhhh that stolas bit with the portals though...

High level demons are some serious bizness...

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I might have to reassess how powerful everyone is. Literally going across the galaxy to sit on a moon that is falling into a pink sun that has reached it's event horizon. Narry a scratch on either him or his daughter despite the titanic forces happening in the scene. I think Stolas, and subsequently most high level demons, might be more powerful than Endbringers going full power.

 

[VisV]

I might have to reassess how powerful everyone is. Literally going across the galaxy to sit on a moon that is falling into a pink sun that has reached it's event horizon. Narry a scratch on either him or his daughter despite the titanic forces happening in the scene. I think Stolas, and subsequently most high level demons, might be more powerful than Endbringers going full power.

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This just means it will be more fun when Taylor takes her rightful place as an overlord!

 

[Thread Necromancer]

This just means it will be more fun when Taylor takes her rightful place as an overlord!

Click to shrink...

It unfortunately means that she might have to make some deals, or rob a noble of their magic book without being caught by them specifically. Actually considering Blitzo has the magic book it might be rather easy to get the book.

 

[VisV]

It unfortunately means that she might have to make some deals, or rob a noble of their magic book without being caught by them specifically. Actually considering Blitzo has the magic book it might be rather easy to get the book.

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Actually, she does have a cult brewing, and you' have stated that she was born with a higher level of power than most demons, the kind of power that, when used intelligently, could propel one up to overlord levels of strength.

You might just want to move some of the cult shenanigans in a bit earlier!

Have Taylor inadvertently make a deal with Oliver when she agrees to help them!

 

[VisV]

Also I just want to point out that that fucking clown bot has a hell of a lot of similarities to the purge angels in the facial area.

 

[Thread Necromancer]

Actually, she does have a cult brewing, and you' have stated that she was born with a higher level of power than most demons, the kind of power that, when used intelligently, could propel one up to overlord levels of strength.

You might just want to move some of the cult shenanigans in a bit earlier!

Have Taylor inadvertently make a deal with Oliver when she agrees to help them!

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The inadvertent deal was an idea I had been playing with but hadn't thought completely through yet. While the cult at the initial point won't grant a massive amount of power, it would be significant.

I've also been playing around with the idea of moving it earlier, at the moment when I'm thinking it happening would be some time after what was going to be a heist of some nobles place. I'll have to think about it when I am finally done my finals.

Also I just want to point out that that fucking clown bot has a hell of a lot of similarities to the purge angels in the facial area.

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Certainly similar but considering that the angels are just wearing masks, I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

 

[VisV]

Taylor needs to pick up that "Glare people to death" trick that stolas used at the end.

 

[VisV]

The inadvertent deal was an idea I had been playing with but hadn't thought completely through yet. While the cult at the initial point won't grant a massive amount of power, it would be significant.

I've also been playing around with the idea of moving it earlier, at the moment when I'm thinking it happening would be some time after what was going to be a heist of some nobles place. I'll have to think about it when I am finally done my finals.


Certainly similar but considering that the angels are just wearing masks, I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

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Yeah but once the cult starts showing results and the wardens continue to be incompetent fuck wits... I'm pretty sure that cult will start growing pretty fast.

And there are a lot of desperate people in that megacity.

That means there are a lot deals to make.

 

[Thread Necromancer]

Yeah but once the cult starts showing results and the wardens continue to be incompetent fuck wits... I'm pretty sure that cult will start growing pretty fast.

And there are a lot of desperate people in that megacity.

That means there are a lot deals to make.

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All because of the centrally planned economy that they let some guy just take over for. Pretty sure the moment Number man died, the economy would have died, but then the city was destroyed before that happened.

Taylor needs to pick up that "Glare people to death" trick that stolas used at the end.

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Likely wouldn't be hard to learn. Probably doesn't even take that much power since Gorgons can do it and they aren't even minor Gods.

 

[VisV]

All because of the centrally planned economy that they let some guy just take over for. Pretty sure the moment Number man died, the economy would have died, but then the city was destroyed before that happened.


Likely wouldn't be hard to learn. Probably doesn't even take that much power since Gorgons can do it and they aren't even minor Gods.

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Also interesting fact, apparently Stolas is an enemy of Vox and Valentino... (This comes from the Instagram accounts the Vivzie pop crew made)

And considering he is not a total scumbag...

Well... Since taylor is going to be going up against his enemies, whose to say he might not... lend a hand?

 

[Thread Necromancer]

Also interesting fact, apparently Stolas is an enemy of Vox and Valentino... (This comes from the Instagram accounts the Vivzie pop crew made)

And considering he is not a total scumbag...

Well... Since taylor going up against his enemies, whose to say he might not... lend a hand?

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definitely a possibility. The episode might change some long term plans I've had for the series, though it isn't so serious at the moment, especially since such long term plans are so ephemeral.

 

[Night Hunter]

Uhhhhh that stolas bit with the portals though...

High level demons are some serious bizness...

Which means it should be fun when Taylor finally takes her rightful spot as an overlord!

Also... Stolas has proven charlie correct about demons not being 100 percent evil.

Click to shrink...

At least we know there is a cycle of day and night on Hell.

 

[Thread Necromancer]

At least we know there is a cycle of day and night on Hell.

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I was rather surprised to see a nice blue sky there.

 

[VisV]

I might have to reassess how powerful everyone is. Literally going across the galaxy to sit on a moon that is falling into a pink sun that has reached it's event horizon. Narry a scratch on either him or his daughter despite the titanic forces happening in the scene. I think Stolas, and subsequently most high level demons, might be more powerful than Endbringers going full power.

Click to shrink...

Actually hold on, I do want to point some stuff out.

Imp's are explicitly the weakest type of demon, we see even basic bitch sinners be threatening to them, and even regular ass mortal humans came real close to taking them out.... and yet when in the mortal world... they are totally immune to fire... but still vulnerable to bullets...

Now "In the mortal world" are the key words here, because Blitz certainly didn't seem okay with the idea of his office being set on fire in hell, nor were they unphased by the fire Blitzo's and Fizzarolli's fight caused in loo-loo land.

Basically... what if demons just interact differently with things in the mortal world than they do in hell?

Stolas may not actually be able to tank the forces he was surrounded by during his musical number, it's just that that was happening in the mortal world and so they kinda slid off of him instead of ripping him to pieces, and if he had done something like that in hell he would be dead.

Just wanted to propose an alternative to every high level demon being able to tank supernovas without a scratch and other such insanity..

 

[Crazael]

Personally, I'm assuming everything Stolas did furing his musical number was an illusion until we're shown otherwise. It just makes evergthing so much simpler and theres no reason it cant be.

 

[Thread Necromancer]

Actually hold on, I do want to point some stuff out.

Imp's are explicitly the weakest type of demon, we see even basic bitch sinners be threatening to them, and even regular ass mortal humans came real close to taking them out.... and yet when in the mortal world... they are totally immune to fire... but still vulnerable to bullets...

Now "In the mortal world" are the key words here, because Blitz certainly didn't seem okay with the idea of his office being set on fire in hell, nor were they unphased by the fire Blitzo's and Fizzarolli's fight caused in loo-loo land.

Basically... what if demons just interact differently with things in the mortal world than they do in hell?

Stolas may not actually be able to tank the forces he was surrounded by during his musical number, it's just that that was happening in the mortal world and so they kinda slid off of him instead of ripping him to pieces, and if he had done something like that in hell he would be dead.

Just wanted to propose an alternative to every high level demon being able to tank supernovas without a scratch and other such insanity..

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Personally, I'm assuming everything Stolas did furing his musical number was an illusion until we're shown otherwise. It just makes evergthing so much simpler and theres no reason it cant be.

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Damn it why the hell didn't I think of that. I swear any kind of illusionist would easily be able to pull the wool over my eyes. Now that it's been brought up an illusion does seem much more likely than them actually being there and tanking that kind of damage.

As for the fire thing, it could just be that the place itself is vulnerable to fire, or just that imps are. We would likely need more context to know for sure. Though you could be right and that it's just that fire in the mortal realm is just weak sause compared to hellfire. Heck, maybe the difference between Hellfire and Mortal fire is just that Hellfire when it sparks absorbs energy from the magic in hell. Like some kind of part of the process that just doesn't happen on earth.

Also my exams are nearly done so I can get back to writing stories again after tomorrow.

 

[VisV]

Damn it why the hell didn't I think of that. I swear any kind of illusionist would easily be able to pull the wool over my eyes. Now that it's been brought up an illusion does seem much more likely than them actually being there and tanking that kind of damage.

As for the fire thing, it could just be that the place itself is vulnerable to fire, or just that imps are. We would likely need more context to know for sure. Though you could be right and that it's just that fire in the mortal realm is just weak sause compared to hellfire. Heck, maybe the difference between Hellfire and Mortal fire is just that Hellfire when it sparks absorbs energy from the magic in hell. Like some kind of part of the process that just doesn't happen on earth.

Also my exams are nearly done so I can get back to writing stories again after tomorrow.

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Also it should be noted that Stolas in IRL demonology is heavily associated with astronomy and astrology and specifically with teaching those things, so it may just be some sort of magical replica of those things but without the destructive force.

I could totally see a powerful demon like Stolas (Vivzie confirmed that he's on the same playing field as overlord's and actually stronger than some of them) and other overlord tier demons being able to create a personal pocket dimension or shit like that at will.

 

[VisV]

Oh yeah and on that whole "No mortal soul before Alastor has ever displayed overlord levels of power" thing from Vaggie.

We should probably take that with a grain of salt... considering Vox was a former human that died in the 50's and he has hell wide electrokinesis and is Alastor's rival (also he's a tv, Alastors Radio, So Vox is probably the stronger of the two, video did kill the radio star after all!)

the above comes from a wiki but they cite one of the Vivzies streams for it.

So either Alastor was just the harbinger of some sort of increase in human soul power in general.... or its always been possible for all humans to reach that level of power, it just rarely happens.

which makes sense, humans are supposed to have a big importance in the abrahamic theology and such.

 

[Thread Necromancer]

Oh yeah and on that whole "No mortal soul before Alastor has ever displayed overlord levels of power" thing from Vaggie.

We should probably take that with a grain of salt... considering Vox was a former human that died in the 50's and he has hell wide electrokinesis and is Alastor's rival (also he's a tv, Alastors Radio, So Vox is probably the stronger of the two, video did kill the radio star after all!)

the above comes from a wiki but they cite one of the Vivzies streams for it.

So either Alastor was just the harbinger of some sort of increase in human soul power in general.... or its always been possible for all humans to reach that level of power, it just rarely happens.

which makes sense, humans are supposed to have a big importance in the abrahamic theology and such.

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My interpretation of that is more that no human starts off right off the bat with that amount of power, but then Vaggie died in like 2014 so she doesn't actually know damn near anything really, just rumours. I wouldn't really take her as an authority on much of anything. I never doubted that humans could get to the powerlevel of overlords because I honestly thought most if not all of them were earlier humans, just that most of them were like Sargon of Akkad, Alexander the Great, and William the Conquerer and stuff like that. Really old guys that had been gathering power since the days of of polytheism.

Also it should be noted that Stolas in IRL demonology is heavily associated with astronomy and astrology and specifically with teaching those things, so it may just be some sort of magical replica of those things but without the destructive force.

I could totally see a powerful demon like Stolas (Vivzie confirmed that he's on the same playing field as overlord's and actually stronger than some of them) and other overlord tier demons being able to create a personal pocket dimension or shit like that at will.

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Considering that Shards can do it I don't see why super powerful demons can't do so as well.

 

[Crazael]

Damn it why the hell didn't I think of that. I swear any kind of illusionist would easily be able to pull the wool over my eyes. Now that it's been brought up an illusion does seem much more likely than them actually being there and tanking that kind of damage.

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It never even occurred to me to think of it as anything else until I started reading people freaking out about him randomly portaling to an exploding solar system just to sing a lullaby for his daughter.

 

[Thread Necromancer]

It never even occurred to me to think of it as anything else until I started reading people freaking out about him randomly portaling to an exploding solar system just to sing a lullaby for his daughter.

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For myself it was mostly just me connecting these dots:

Stolas can and has left hell before
he has the magic book to do it
He is using the magic book
It looks like he just exited hell with Octavia

Thus, I thought that he had left hell just to watch a sun explode. Considering that they can't die and are known to have a massive amount of power, it isn't unknown for the ultra powerful in fiction to do things like this.