Why don't writers understand how important characters are?

[Doomed.Knight]

This is more a rant than a genuine question, prompted by my recent holiday reading binge. I'm not necessarily referring to amateur writers (though it's certainly something they fail at as well), but more so professional novel/light novel/manga/manhua writers. The isekai/regression genre seems particularly dense when it comes to this sort of thing.

Characters are as essential to writing stories as eggs are to making omelets. Not only do characters (and eggs) need to be done right to make the thing their part of actually good, but said thing wouldn't even be able to exist if it weren't for them. It's literally impossible to make an omelet without eggs (don't point out that egg substitutes exist, that's not the point). And it's similarly impossible to write a story without characters. There would be no action, no plot, no drama, no comedy, no romance. No nothing. It can't be done. They are the most important thing. What chef worth his salt would use poor quality eggs, or prepare them poorly when making an omelet? What writer worth his salt would neglect his characters?

As I said, the isekai/regression genre of stories are particularly bad at this (which I tend to frequent). Maybe the MC has a mom or a servant or something when he goes back in time, but they really have no character to them, get almost no screen time and do nothing of consequence when they actually show up. It's just an endless treadmill of disposable villains, dungeons and stat pages that make me wonder why I'm not spending my time doing literally anything else. 'The Hero Returns' is the most recent one I've stumbled across, for those curious, though I'd already gone over the edge before I read it.

Writing good characters is hard. I get it. But copying good characters that already exist really isn't. Everyone has their favorites and there are plenty out there, so I'm not going to point out characters that I think are good. If you're just not good at coming up with them, then yeah, you should get inspiration from elsewhere. Hell, these dungeon manhwa/japanese fantasy isekai/murim etc. novels are all ripping each other off anyway. While you're at it, why not poach the actual most important thing (characters) instead of settings or plotlines that don't matter nearly as much? Not that they don't matter, but the best plot in the world is wasted if you can't manage to give a shit about who it's happening to.

And then even when they manage to put together a half-decent cast, it's still horrible because these writers don't understand that those same characters must have agency. Characters that do not have agency are no different from stage decorations. If we have a village inkeeper or something, then sure, he doesn't need to be able to affect the plot, but if the characters are going to be mainstays, then absolutely. They must have agency. I don't mean a plot device here, like say, the MC needing a power-up so he makes use of the cold female cultivator's yin constitution or some shit. That female cultivator might walk and talk and do things and look like a person, but that's all she is. Something that looks like a person. She's no different from a mystical dagger or any other doohickey that moves the plot forward. The key-word (repeating myself, but this is a rant, so sorry) here is agency. These people need to be able to actually do stuff. Think Overlord's Demiurge going off and fucking shit up behind the scenes. That's an excellent example of a real character, because he has real agency and can affect the plot.

I know it's hard. I know. I do a bit of writing myself, after all. But if an author can't make a full cast of characters that are both genuinely compelling and have their own agency (GoT also does this well), then how about just one. I would literally settle for these regression novels having just one other character besides the MC being interesting and having their own will. But even that seems like it's too much to ask.

 

[AlwaysReading]

It's because they don't really know how to write. No, really, that's actually the reason.

Sure, they can put words on paper, but if you actually ask any of these authors what they wrote about, they wouldn't be able to give you anything deeper than just summarizing the plot. This is because they see the plot as just being the tool used to take the hero from Point A to Point B.

 

[ALandWithNoName]

kiy-yah

Click to shrink...

what do you think about stories that subvert your underlying premise, like waifu catalogue?

i do want to make sure i'm not strawmanning you, so; your point is about the agency of characters within the frame of the story (right?) i've never read a waifu catalogue story, but i gather that the utter subversion against what you're looking for is... the point? (question since i'm not sure myself)

it's the ideas between you and wc, is what i'm finding funny.

the MC needing a power-up so he makes use of the cold female cultivator's yin constitution or some shit.

Click to shrink...

specifically that, but instead reframing an entire story and making it the central theme.

i actually really like the idea of a stone-cold ass sociopath doing that very thing. i just don't have the energy to write anything like that.

reminds me of that one horror-com manhwa where the mc is an apprentice of like a jason-esque serial killer doctor. the world is like mythological-horror-ville with slashers as just the norm. what i find really endearing about it is the mc being normal most of the time. but when he becomes the resident doctor, he becomes the horror to horrors. god, it's so good. wish i had a habit of writing the damned names down of them...

 

[BronzePlaceWriter]

This is more a rant than a genuine question, prompted by my recent holiday reading binge. I'm not necessarily referring to amateur writers (though it's certainly something they fail at as well), but more so professional novel/light novel/manga/manhua writers. The isekai/regression genre seems particularly dense when it comes to this sort of thing.

Characters are as essential to writing stories as eggs are to making omelets. Not only do characters (and eggs) need to be done right to make the thing their part of actually good, but said thing wouldn't even be able to exist if it weren't for them. It's literally impossible to make an omelet without eggs (don't point out that egg substitutes exist, that's not the point). And it's similarly impossible to write a story without characters. There would be no action, no plot, no drama, no comedy, no romance. No nothing. It can't be done. They are the most important thing. What chef worth his salt would use poor quality eggs, or prepare them poorly when making an omelet? What writer worth his salt would neglect his characters?

As I said, the isekai/regression genre of stories are particularly bad at this (which I tend to frequent). Maybe the MC has a mom or a servant or something when he goes back in time, but they really have no character to them, get almost no screen time and do nothing of consequence when they actually show up. It's just an endless treadmill of disposable villains, dungeons and stat pages that make me wonder why I'm not spending my time doing literally anything else. 'The Hero Returns' is the most recent one I've stumbled across, for those curious, though I'd already gone over the edge before I read it.

Writing good characters is hard. I get it. But copying good characters that already exist really isn't. Everyone has their favorites and there are plenty out there, so I'm not going to point out characters that I think are good. If you're just not good at coming up with them, then yeah, you should get inspiration from elsewhere. Hell, these dungeon manhwa/japanese fantasy isekai/murim etc. novels are all ripping each other off anyway. While you're at it, why not poach the actual most important thing (characters) instead of settings or plotlines that don't matter nearly as much? Not that they don't matter, but the best plot in the world is wasted if you can't manage to give a shit about who it's happening to.

And then even when they manage to put together a half-decent cast, it's still horrible because these writers don't understand that those same characters must have agency. Characters that do not have agency are no different from stage decorations. If we have a village inkeeper or something, then sure, he doesn't need to be able to affect the plot, but if the characters are going to be mainstays, then absolutely. They must have agency. I don't mean a plot device here, like say, the MC needing a power-up so he makes use of the cold female cultivator's yin constitution or some shit. That female cultivator might walk and talk and do things and look like a person, but that's all she is. Something that looks like a person. She's no different from a mystical dagger or any other doohickey that moves the plot forward. The key-word (repeating myself, but this is a rant, so sorry) here is agency. These people need to be able to actually do stuff. Think Overlord's Demiurge going off and fucking shit up behind the scenes. That's an excellent example of a real character, because he has real agency and can affect the plot.

I know it's hard. I know. I do a bit of writing myself, after all. But if an author can't make a full cast of characters that are both genuinely compelling and have their own agency (GoT also does this well), then how about just one. I would literally settle for these regression novels having just one other character besides the MC being interesting and having their own will. But even that seems like it's too much to ask.

Click to shrink...

Characters are often hard to do in a satisfying way. Organic growth and change can be difficult to portray. For newer, less talented or just more hurried writers, building and maintaining a cast of characters can legitimately be a very daunting task. Most regression/Iskei fiction will tend to fall into one of those three categories. Usually, ''hurried''. when writing that style of content, it's often essential to get as much out as you can as quickly as you can. Your readers aren't always after pure quality, and there is so much of it around that if you don't update fast, you'll get left behind.

So the temptation becomes to pair everything back as much as you can for easier writing. Focus on the main character and maybe one other character who orbits them. Use cliches to fill out the rest of the cast. They may seem lazy, but it's actually a deliberate choice - you see, everyone knows the cliches so you can inform your audience of the characters with only a few words or references. They won't form any kind of connection to them and they'll be forgettable, but at least it will communicate to your readers in the smallest amount of words that they exist in the setting.

Since certain modern genres tend to focus extremely heavily on the MC alone, the sacrifice of secondary characters is seen as worthwhile in order to increase production speed and simplify the story.

 

[Skierus]

what do you think about stories that subvert your underlying premise, like waifu catalogue?

i do want to make sure i'm not strawmanning you, so; your point is about the agency of characters within the frame of the story (right?) i've never read a waifu catalogue story, but i gather that the utter subversion against what you're looking for is... the point? (question since i'm not sure myself)

it's the ideas between you and wc, is what i'm finding funny.

Click to shrink...

Was reading through this, and something I feel needs to be pointed out: the bad Waifu Catalogue stories are bad because they play the premise straight. The good ones only work because they fight that premise the entire way down.

You cannot run WC straight and get a good story out of it. The premise itself is fundamentally anti‑narrative — it strips agency, flattens character motivation, and hands the protagonist a toolbox that removes stakes. Any story that takes that at face value collapses into wish‑fulfillment sludge.

The only way to make it shine is to treat the premise as a problem, not a feature.

And that ties into the bigger point:Characters are the most important part of any story. They drive the plot, they create the emotional beats, and they're the lens through which the audience experiences everything. Without strong characters, the story has nothing to stand on.

So yeah — in short, WC stories are innately bad, and only good writing can polish the turd.

[moving on]

I really do wish more people thought in terms of story beats and emotional beats instead of just "what would this character say." That's surface‑level. You can refine it into:

• What is this character feeling
• How would someone in that emotional state react
• What personality traits shape that reaction
• What cultural lens or background informs their choices

It sounds like a lot, but if you're not bloating your cast, it becomes second nature. You do the work once, and then you're just checking against the template.

Honestly, I recommend making character sheets that act as quick‑reference templates — not giant encyclopedias, just:

• personality traits
• cultural background
• formative events
• emotional tendencies
• relationship dynamics

And update them as the story progresses. Make different versions for different arcs if you need to.

This stuff is so undervalued in storytelling, but it's the backbone of writing characters who feel real instead of reactive.

 

[lop333]

It's because 90% of the time if you are reading regression or Isekai stories author do see characters as just props female characters even more so are usually just stepping stones on mcs way to greatness so that author can use whatever bad hidden fetish he has on them.

 

[Lughman]

~Snip~

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There's also the issue of a character's charisma or lack thereof. Often, I will drop a book if I don't like a character, even if I love the writing. An easy example of this is Gene Wolfe's, The Book of the New Sun series, which I can't enjoy; simply because the main character is easy to dislike. For me at least. Then there are others, like Steve Erikson's, Malazan Book of the Fallen series, which I do enjoy. I only just finished the first book in the series, but I enjoyed it far more than: Shadow of the Torturer.

So I agree, characters are hard to do in a pleasing way, and that's likely a good thing. These stories wouldn't have captured their audiences if their characters weren't so dynamic. As for mainstream, it is easier to write for archetypes. I can understand this, and it's easy to see their popularity in fanfiction. Unfortunately, I'm stubborn, or maybe I'm more used to a time when I had to wait a year or two for an entire book to drop, rather than each week for a serial. It feels like the times keep moving faster, and the reader's attention narrows down to the stories that keep up.

It doesn't help that most authors in online webserials and fanfiction lack an editor, or bother to revise their work (if they ever reach the end of it).

As I said, the isekai/regression genre of stories are particularly bad at this (which I tend to frequent).

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Which a lot of these stories tend to suffer from. They're fun, but its the type of fun that ends up stale when the tale runs around and around the narrative's wheels never ending. I'd like it if there were more character depth, but understand the time constraints (along with the pressure to keep up with your 'competitors') makes it extremely difficult. Doesn't change the fact that I want what I want, though. So I empathize.

TLDR: You can't have it all, unfortunately. But I'd like it if I could.

 

[Sadim]

[...] The isekai/regression genre seems particularly dense when it comes to this sort of thing.

[...]

Writing good characters is hard. I get it. But copying good characters that already exist really isn't. [...]

And then even when they manage to put together a half-decent cast, it's still horrible because these writers don't understand that those same characters must have agency. [...]

Click to shrink...

Okay. Sorry for the late answer, but here's mine all the same.

Some things I haven't seen anyone mention yet:

Regarding isekai / regression stories: The isekai / regression genre is done that way on purpose.

Why? Because if the Main Character is bland, it's easier to substitute the MC with yourself, allowing you to effectively have the experience of doing a SI without actually having to put in the effort of writing a self-insert.

This is also the reason they all claim to be "an average high school student / salary man", even if they very blatantly aren't (or weren't): Because it makes it easier to self-insert into that character. And suddenly all their achievements become yours, in your daydreaming.

Part of the reason why the supporting characters are similarly flat is also down to this: So you can project other people from your life that resemble them (in terms of personality or appearance) on them; Be it your crush or someone else.

(Though admittedly it's also partly down to a lack of skill on the part of the author/writer.)


Something to keep in mind on this front is that there are characters that are intended to have no character growth.

Those are referred to as 'flat' or 'static' characters, as compared to the 'rounded' or 'dynamic' characters that are intended to change over the course of the story (aka: have character growth).

There is no need for everyone to change over the course of the story - the problem is when you apply that logic to the main supporting characters. The actions of the protagonist should impact the main supporting characters in a way that changes them over time.

Not changing means you're stagnating, and that can't happen if you actually make progress in some kind of way.


Regarding copying characters: There is a small problem with that.

Namely? You need to have a very good understanding of the character you try to copy, in order to be able to properly mentally emulate them and calculate (predict) their actions and emotions in any given situation.

If you want to write out a certain plot and that clashes with the personality of the character? You will have to toss out the plot or force them to go Out of Character.

Which is why it's easier to have a bland character that can't possibly defy the plot you laid out for them to follow.

Add the fact that most authors aren't exactly swimming in human interaction (because they wouldn't be writing in their free time if they were socializing instead) and they flat out don't have the experience or knowledge required to make believable characters.

If they fail at even making a believable self-insert? They have low self-awareness (or they're autistic, a sociopath and/or a psychopath).


Regarding agency: I agree. Agency is important.

However. The reason why it doesn't happen often is because it increases the complexity of the story on the planning side.

Not only do you have to account for the plot you intend to have, you also have to put just as much thought into the agency of every single character you gave 'permission' to have agency.

If the characters are done well? Realistically and comprehensively? It's fairly easy to predict how they would act in any given situation.

However. This requires solid world-building and fleshed-out characters.

They can't do anything in a part of the world you haven't even thought about yet - because it doesn't exist yet, for the purposes of the story.

Which means that the level of complexity of the story would need to far exceed the depth of most Isekai / Regression type stories in order for it to even be viable to give them a considerable amount of agency.

The exponential growth of the complexity makes it hard to have even have a handful of characters with complete agency and a broad enough knowledge base (in-universe) to make that agency actually mean something.

The common sense of the characters limits their agency to only apply to what they know is possible, after all, so the more wise, intelligent or grown-up / independent / old the characters are, the more complexity is added by leaving them with agency.


Example:
Dumbledore from Harry Potter is a great example for a character who would have changed the whole story if he had any amount of agency.

He really doesn't feel like anything more than a plot device.

Why? Because if you seriously consider what someone with his titles, abilities and skills would do in the situation he is in, he absolutely wouldn't have acted the way he did in the story.

The only reasonable explanation is that he's tied up in unbreakable magical contracts that are even more stringent than the one he'd already managed to bypass in order to defeat Grindelwald, or that he's secretly 'Evil All Along'.


Conclusion:
Complexity and the fact that characters would go against the Will of the Author are the main reasons why characters seldomly have 'true agency' in a fictional world / work.

The vast majority of inserts defy that by having 100% agency, because they weren't written by the original author to have limited agency.

The out-of-context knowledge helps, as does having precognitive knowledge of the world around them (+ peri-/post-cog knowledge), but the main strength of (Self) Inserts is the fact that they have unlimited agency in a world where others don't.

The butterfly effect happens if the original author's grant of limited agency is broken.

'Railroading' happens if the original author's grant of limited agency (to the characters / the plot) is maintained.