Will of The Force (Star Wars / Worm)

[Lokabrenna]

Eh, the main problem with the Lucas Canon version of the Force is that it is, for lack of a better descriptor, fucking stupid. It shows clearly that George, while a great storyteller, is not much of a philosopher. The Force is supposed to be the energy (emotional and otherwise) of all life. We are told explicitly that anger, fear and hatred are "of the Dark Side." If that is what makes up the Dark Side, then how can anyone possibly claim that the Dark Side is "unnatural" or "a perversion" or the energy of life?

What could be more natural than anger? Or fear? Or even hatred, for the animals and sapients that are mentally capable of holding grudges? The irony here is that the Buddhist-style mental and spiritual serenity that the Jedi seek in order to better connect with the Force is infinitely more unnatural than any mental state ascribed to the Dark Side. Looked at from the human and animal psychology end of things, if one side of the Force is "a perversion" of the original, it's actually much more likely to be the "Light" side, since it requires a mindset that you have to actively work at creating in yourself, a mindset that pretty much never occurs naturally.

My last objection to Lucas canon on the Force is the way it's another clear example of George Lucas making shit up as he went without paying attention to whether it contradicted anything else he said before. If there was only the Force and the Dark Side as a perversion of it, then why did he call it the Dark "Side of the Force"? That's very simple and evocative language that not only explicitly implies that there are at least two facets to the Force, but very clearly makes the claim that it is, in fact, "of the Force" (i.e. not just a cancer attached to the Force). If it was supposed to be a perversion from the start, he could have simply called it "the Darkness" or "Corruption" or something. Instead, he chose to call it what he did, and that has strong implications for the nature of the Force that don't just disappear because George turned around and changed his mind years later.

 

[Akuma-Heika]

As for your second point, it's also simple. There is the cosmic force, and the living force. The cosmic force pertains to inanimate things and the universe as a whole, while the living force is more directly connected with life, both are part of the same force, just distinctions made by mortal species in their study of the force. Midichlorians are an interface for the force, they are symbiotic organisms that allow the force sensitive to be, sensitive to the force.

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But what induced the cancer that is the Dark Side? And more importantly how (and how did it spread to the entirety so completely)?

Edit: I am positive that Windu needed to utilize the Dark Side to pull off his style, but I could be misremembering something from some novel or another

 

[grime]

But what induced the cancer that is the Dark Side? And more importantly how (and how did it spread to the entirety so completely)?

Edit: I am positive that Windu needed to utilize the Dark Side to pull off his style, but I could be misremembering something from some novel or another

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Sapience is what induces the dark side, conscious, sapient creatures that are force sensitive can wield the force like a tool, crushing it to their will, much like how thinking beings like humans twist nature to their will, and over time attempt to make distinctions between themselves and their nature, and try to excise it. Jedi or "light side" philosophy isn't just about being emotionless, nor is the dark side about being emotional. The Jedi philosphy is about acceptance, harmony, living in accordance with nature and by doing so, achieving a kind of inner peace or pseudo religious ecstacy. Until you no longer fear death, loss, or the indignities of mortal life.

 

[Ahtu]

That's also why Windu seems to dogmatic and uncompromising as a Jedi, because he needs to be extra strict given his unique style. But no, he doesn't directly channel the dark side or use his own passions.

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While this is generally seen as true in the lore, it's a bit contradictory. Because it speaks of how he has trouble dealing with his own emotions, chiefly anger. And how Vapaad somehow helps him with this.

Which does suggest that he does idd channel his own anger into it. But there's another Jedi interpretation to it, which is probably the missing piece of this puzzle: He does as all Jedi who try to meditate their negative emotions away(and let's be honest, that's all they basically every truly are meant to guard against, that and later attachments. Which they in truth only guard against in some cases), through moving kata's(with an element of inventive inspiration).

Again, this does sort of hint towards him channeling The Dark Side on his own regardless. Just without ever actually embracing or hold onto it.

So I personally leave this one up to each person's interpretation - Rather than deny one or the other.

Because no matter which I would deny, I would seem to end up with a contradiction. Which makes me think that the true answer is that "we don't really know. We only know that the Jedi don't think he does so."

Now, forgive me if you already know this but, in Lucas canon, there was no Light side of the Force, there was only the Force and the Dark Side. In fact, Luke Skywalker once mentioned bringing Anakin to the good side, but never in any of Lucas movies was the term Light Side used, or bringing to the light, or anything light related.
The Light Side was born on the extended universe and then made the jump to Disney canon.
For Lucas, the Dark Side is a corruption, a cancer, it has no place in the universe, a perversion of the Force that simply shouldn't exist and only brought destruction. It was adictive, like a drug while the Force didn't have a light side, it was just The Force.

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This whole thing is still ofc completely off.

If you can channel both at once or not in GL canon is a lot harder to tell. But I can say FOR SURE, that there is a light and dark in GL's canon. Just listen to the man speak on it, damn it xD

You're mistaking the Jedi's perspective on themselves for narrative - It's not. The Jedi's perspective on themselves is just that, their personal perspectives. It's NOT narrative.

Sapience is what induces the dark side, conscious, sapient creatures that are force sensitive can wield the force like a tool, crushing it to their will, much like how thinking beings like humans twist nature to their will, and over time attempt to make distinctions between themselves and their nature, and try to excise it. Jedi or "light side" philosophy isn't just about being emotionless, nor is the dark side about being emotional. The Jedi philosphy is about acceptance, harmony, living in accordance with nature and by doing so, achieving a kind of inner peace or pseudo religious ecstacy. Until you no longer fear death, loss, or the indignities of mortal life.

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The Force can't exist without life(or at least not propagate and grow). But Dark Side artifacts and locations without any life to them, are numerous. The Force can exist in dark or light side states without anything living around. It's not just within ppl. Dagobah, and the cave in particular is a great canon example.

 

[grime]

Eh, the main problem with the Lucas Canon version of the Force is that it is, for lack of a better descriptor, fucking stupid. It shows clearly that George, while a great storyteller, is not much of a philosopher. The Force is supposed to be the energy (emotional and otherwise) of all life. We are told explicitly that anger, fear and hatred are "of the Dark Side." If that is what makes up the Dark Side, then how can anyone possibly claim that the Dark Side is "unnatural" or "a perversion" or the energy of life?

What could be more natural than anger? Or fear? Or even hatred, for the animals and sapients that are mentally capable of holding grudges? The irony here is that the Buddhist-style mental and spiritual serenity that the Jedi seek in order to better connect with the Force is infinitely more unnatural than any mental state ascribed to the Dark Side. Looked at from the human and animal psychology end of things, if one side of the Force is "a perversion" of the original, it's actually much more likely to be the "Light" side, since it requires a mindset that you have to actively work at creating in yourself, a mindset that pretty much never occurs naturally.

My last objection to Lucas canon on the Force is the way it's another clear example of George Lucas making shit up as he went without paying attention to whether it contradicted anything else he said before. If there was only the Force and the Dark Side as a perversion of it, then why did he call it the Dark "Side of the Force"? That's very simple and evocative language that not only explicitly implies that there are at least two facets to the Force, but very clearly makes the claim that it is, in fact, "of the Force" (i.e. not just a cancer attached to the Force). If it was supposed to be a perversion from the start, he could have simply called it "the Darkness" or "Corruption" or something. Instead, he chose to call it what he did, and that has strong implications for the nature of the Force that don't just disappear because George turned around and changed his mind years later.

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Maybe the word choice wasn't perfect on Lucas's part, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about lol.

The Jedi never once in the story state that emotions, or anger or hatred or loss or death are unnatural. In fact there are multiple instances of them emphasising the natural cycle of life and death and violence in the natural world. Sometimes they associate the predatory interactions of nature as an aspect of the dark side, but the canonicity of that in Lucas's original vision is dubious.

The point is that the force, the energy that is produced by life and the interactions of life, is fundamentally harmonic. That's what they mean by balance, nature is in balance with itself, ecosystems and the cycle of life and death form a vast interconnected universal web. But it is sapience that changes this entire relationship, because thinking force sensitives can use the force for their own ends, they can make nature bend to their will, and through arrogance and pride they can delude themselves into living in a state of chaos or personal war with their own nature. People will reject the idea that they are susceptible to their own limits, to their own nature, that they will die, that they will suffer, that they are not gods. This state of anguish is the dark side. Coincidentally, there are many obvious parallels with satanist philisophy (do as thou wilt) and so on, which makes sense given how much religions and mysticism influenced and inspired Lucas when he created Star Wars.

Animals don't ponder their own nature or their own limits, they don't wonder why suffering exists. But humans (or aliens) do, and our self aware minds rail against our limitations and our frailty and weakness and impotence and the unfairness of it all, and therefore cause undue suffering on themselves and on the world around them. The idea of balance and the light side, and the Jedi is essentially a therapeutic for this mental conundrum, and it's especially necessary because in SW the force exists and is accessible, and so pride and arrogance and the delusion of godhood is so much more real and dangerous than it is in real life.

 

[Ahtu]

The point is that the force, the energy that is produced by life and the interactions of life, is fundamentally harmonic. That's what they mean by balance, nature is in balance with itself, ecosystems and the cycle of life and death form a vast interconnected universal web. But it is sapience that changes this entire relationship, because thinking force sensitives can use the force for their own ends, they can make nature bend to their will, and through arrogance and pride they can delude themselves into living in a state of chaos or personal war with their own nature. People will reject the idea that they are susceptible to their own limits, to their own nature, that they will die, that they will suffer, that they are not gods. This state of anguish is the dark side. Coincidentally, there are many obvious parallels with satanist philisophy (do as thou wilt) and so on, which makes sense given how much religions and mysticism influenced and inspired Lucas when he created Star Wars.

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Yeaaaah. That's just BS, Dagobah is an example from original canon. And GL directly refutes this in his interviews, speeches, and meetings.

The question about if there's a... Neutral state is hard to say. Although the force powers themselves strongly suggest it. As there are Dark Side force abilities, Light Side force abilities, and neutral ones that are shared across the board.

Eh, the main problem with the Lucas Canon version of the Force is that it is, for lack of a better descriptor, fucking stupid. It shows clearly that George, while a great storyteller, is not much of a philosopher. The Force is supposed to be the energy (emotional and otherwise) of all life. We are told explicitly that anger, fear and hatred are "of the Dark Side." If that is what makes up the Dark Side, then how can anyone possibly claim that the Dark Side is "unnatural" or "a perversion" or the energy of life?

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That would be true, if their claims here were true. They're not.

PS. I hate that video so much... It has spread this misinformation far and wide... Fkn asshole trying to peddle his narrative against the facts... Ppl like that ought to be serve prison time... Misunderstandings create pointless conflicts, the bigger the misunderstands, the greater the conflicts it breeds. This may seem harmless, but can you imagine the amount of vitriol and bitterness this has spread amongst ppl? Fuck that guy!

Yes I understand it would be near impossible to prove the selfish/malicious and fully comprehending intent realistically - But I can still think it, even if it would be a shit law that could never function in practice.

 

[grime]

The Force can't exist without life. But Dark Side artifacts and locations without any life to them, are numerous. The Force can exist in dark or light side states without anything living around. It's not just within ppl. Dagobah, and the cave in particular is a great canon example.

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That's true I completely forgot about that. I don't think this refutes what I'm talking about though, at least not entirely. But I don't think we know why that cave exists, it might've been created by people in the past. I actually think what we call the dark side can be divided into two parts, a true dark side, which is the result of the force, of nature and the world being twisted unnaturally by human (or alien) distress and pride... and a "natural" dark side, which isn't the dark side at all, but is instead a representation of the predatory elements of nature and life, along with death. The second type, however, forces force sensitives to confront violence and death and suffering, and as a result can act as a catalyst for the first type (the "true" dark side) in sapient beings, because it brings attention to your darker nature, your limitations, your losses and your flaws.

 

[grime]

Yeaaaah. That's just BS, Dagobah is an example from original canon. And GL directly refutes this in his interviews, speeches, and meetings.

The question about if there's a... Neutral state is hard to say. Although the force powers themselves strongly suggest it. As there are Dark Side force abilities, Light Side force abilities, and neutral ones that are shared across the board.


That would be true, if their claims here were true. They're not.

PS. I hate that video so much... It has spread this misinformation far and wide... Fkn asshole trying to peddle his narrative against the facts... Ppl like that ought to be serve prison time... Misunderstandings create pointless conflicts, the bigger the misunderstands, the greater the conflicts it breeds. This may seem harmless, but can you imagine the amount of vitriol and bitterness this has spread amongst ppl? Fuck that guy!

Yes I understand it would be near impossible to prove the selfish/malicious and fully comprehending intent realistically - But I can still think it, even if it would be a shit law that could never function in practice.

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I just offered a decent explanation for the dagobah example in a previous reply, check that out if you're curious. Anyways, it seems like the only vitriol and bitterness here is coming from you. Why does the idea of the force not being a source of power fantasy piss you off so much? It's much more consistent instead of assuming that for tens of thousands of years the Jedi and their predecessors were all just colossal dumbasses with no understanding of human/alien nature. It is also infinitely more consistent with the obvious religious and mystic influences/inspirations Lucas took and talked about when making SW.

 

[Ahtu]

That's true I completely forgot about that. I don't think this refutes what I'm talking about though, at least not entirely. But I don't think we know why that cave exists, it might've been created by people in the past. I actually think what we call the dark side can be divided into two parts, a true dark side, which is the result of the force, of nature and the world being twisted unnaturally by human (or alien) distress and pride... and a "natural" dark side, which isn't the dark side at all, but is instead a representation of the predatory elements of nature and life, along with death. The second type, however, forces force sensitives to confront violence and death and suffering, and as a result can act as a catalyst for the first type (the "true" dark side) in sapient beings, because it brings attention to your darker nature, your limitations, your losses and your flaws.

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Oh it must have been created by SOMETHING. The Force originates from living beings, living beings must have caused it in some sense. But anger is as natural to force sensitive beasts, as it is to sapient beings.

Your take on the force is a personal one, and if you want to see that I don't care. But it's not congruent with either what GL said, or what is portrayed in canon.

Death is a natural part of life, that is true. It's not The Dark Side, but certainly not The Light either. It's neutral. And another point in favor for the idea that there's a natural and neutral aspect of the force. As dying is in part the process of tranforming into the force around you.

I just offered a decent explanation for the dagobah example in a previous reply, check that out if you're curious. Anyways, it seems like the only vitriol and bitterness here is coming from you. Why does the idea of the force not being a source of power fantasy piss you off so much? It's much more consistent instead of assuming that for tens of thousands of years the Jedi and their predecessors were all just colossal dumbasses with no understanding of human/alien nature. It is also infinitely more consistent with the obvious religious and mystic influences/inspirations Lucas took and talked about when making SW.

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What pisses me off is the shit-ton of misunderstandings that are mostly born of one guy. I make that quite clear.

Also what you're saying makes no sense, it would still be a power-fantasy... I don't get it? WTF has changed with your take? It's still a mystical power source for incredible feats. All you've changed, is that you want to say "the force is inherently good, but the dark side is bad." You basically want The Force to be a natural force for good. As in a literal universal Force for good, which considering the state of the SW galaxy is a ludicrous take to me. Does it look like it's working to make shit okay? XD

My take is a more neutral scientific take in reality. Far less fantasy, and far more sci-fi. My take also happens to be the one that would hold up in a court of law, with all the video evidence on hand.

The Force idd seems to be colored by the emotions of living beings - That is true. But the Jedi seem to forget that they don't actually divest themselves of emotions, they just purge themselves of negative emotions, and avoid attachments(to stop them from flaring up). Which means they're still left with for example that sense of tranquility, which is certainly a positive emotion - Highly stable, and not necessarily jubilant. But positive all the same. Which speaks towards what they're actually using - The Light Side/Ashla.

PS. As I recall GL even made the Plagueis novel canon before he sold it, and Disney called it EU. Which would hardcore support the vast majority of EU. I'll admit I only remember this as a rumor, so it could be wrong. But I doubt it, it was hardcore in line with his own statements.

PPS. Completely divesting yourself of emotions, would in theory make you truly neutral - Both in the force, and as a being. But it would also kill all your motivations completely. You'd no longer do ANYTHING.

I would know, I once tried to come as close to this as possible in an attempt to gain a near absolutely objective perspective. And I kind of succeeded, and the near complete apathy(which it took a long time to get out of) almost killed me. I thought I could handle it, that I would just start operating on pure logical reasoning. I didn't think it would affect my motivations like that, I didn't know anything COULD affect your motivations like that. I got back mainly through 2 things, a silent sort of underlying panic(that started to build as I tried to work my way back), and irritations that managed to blossom into full blown rage and anger.

In short, living beings can't function without emotions. As I soon discovered. I suppose I just never considered that I could reach that state by simply fighting off my own emotions.

 

[grime]

Oh it must have been created by SOMETHING. The Force originates from living beings, living beings must have caused it in some sense. But anger is as natural to force sensitive beasts, as it is to sapient beings.

Your take on the force is a personal one, and if you want to see that I don't care. But it's not congruent with either what GL said, or what is portrayed in canon.

Death is a natural part of life, that is true. It's not The Dark Side, but certainly not The Light either. It's neutral. And another point in favor for the idea that there's a natural and neutral aspect of the force. As dying is in part the process of tranforming into the force around you.

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Except I'm saying that there is no light side, only the force, and that force includes life and death, there is no moral judgement there, it's about nature, and yeah, death is a part of life and the force, and has nothing to do with the dark side. It's like you didn't even read what I said, anger is not unnatural, the Jedi never say anger, or emotions, or even negative emotions are unnatural, nor do they say those things ARE the dark side, but that they LEAD a force sensitive to the dark side, which is very consistent with that I've said. The Dagobah cave is not truly a "dark side" nexus or anything like that, it is reflecting the predatory aspect of nature, the suffering and death that living beings go through, but that is filtered through a sapient lens and forces a person to confront those things which lead to the mental anguish and pride that are the true dark side. That's part of the reason why Yoda says Luke doesn't need his weapons, it isn't just because it is an illusion, but because by taking his weapons Luke is demonstrating that same lack of acceptance, that same pride that leads people to reject nature and embrace their own pride and (false) power over nature.

Also what you're saying makes no sense, it would still be a power-fantasy... I don't get it? WTF has changed with your take? It's still a mystical power source for incredible feats. All you've changed, is that you want to say "the force is inherently good, but the dark side is bad." You basically want The Force to be a natural force for good. As in a literal universal Force for good, which considering the state of the SW galaxy is a ludicrous take to me. Does it look like it's working to make shit okay? XD

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A lot has changed, because now the force comes along with the burden of responsibility and the burden of power. Whereas otherwise someone could just use cool dark side techniques without being evil or corrupted, they could just casually use the force to kill their enemies but also use the "light side" when they wanted to heal, and etc. It turns the force from an unrestricted magic system of self indulgence to a system where someone like Vader has to actually work to redeem himself and resist his dark impulses, and learn to accept life as it is and let go of his pride.

The fact that you can't see that is crazy to me.

I also never prescribed moral judgements to the force, and if I did, that was obviously not my intention, since I specified so often that suffering is a natural part of life. It's crazy that you made this big reply and only barely skimmed what I wrote so you could get incredulous and angry lol.

What's interesting to me is that you keep citing Lucas's true intentions in the same post as you insisting on a "scientific" interpretation of the force that is "less fantasy" and more scifi. This seems very contradictory to me since Lucas pretty explicitly wrote SW not as a hard scifi but as a fantasy space opera with obvious mystical and religious inspiration.

I would love to see all of these Lucas interviews you reference and how they totally refute the obviously mystical and religious, philosophical and theological dogmas and concepts the force embodies.

 

[Ahtu]

Except I'm saying that there is no light side, only the force

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This might have held water, if you said that there was no Dark Side either.

It creates countless contradictions here for you. The least, but most basic of which is the basic concept of "no dark without light."

the Jedi never say anger, or emotions, or even negative emotions are unnatural, nor do they say those things ARE the dark side

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/slow blinks... Pardon? "But beware the dark. Anger, fear, aggression. The Dark Side are they." - Yoda.

I'm just gonna put that out there at this point: You don't know the material well enough to speak on this.

The Dagobah cave is not truly a "dark side" nexus or anything like that, it is reflecting the predatory aspect of nature

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Again, this is just your own rewriting of it. Yoda specifically states that the place is strong in the dark side, and a place of evil.

All of this drowns in how you yourself want to see it. The facts just stack higher and higher against you as you write incorrect statement after incorrect statement.

I do not begrudge you the SW fantasy that you want to see for yourself. That is fine, you can have your own head-canon, I won't mind. But it's NOT congruent with what is stated or portrayed in the original SW.

You call my perspective crazy, because I've not bought into your world view. But it's your world view here that conflicts with the reality of it over and over again, not mine ;D Your poectic reading is not a factual reading.

For your own good(mentally speaking), you should accept that your own understanding of it, is not the factual interpretation of it and move on.

PS. I never got angry at you. You never made a video, as far as I am aware? You speak of skimming responses but... I'm pretty sure you're the one that's guilty of that here ;D It was a reference to one of my responses earlier on the thread, about the asshole that made said video.

I think you're likely a victim of said video. I'd say I mostly just pity you for that... Directly or indirectly, most ppl I've found ultimately got that perspective from that video, and so I despise that spread of misinformation. Because he bans all comments refuting him that gains traction, and abuses the allure of good SW material(material he fundamentally contradicts) to draw ppl in. It's basically a cult and a scam of sorts. If he just openly stated it was his poetic interpretation, or at least let the rebuttals in his video stand - I would have no problems with him. But as it is, it's just him peddling his own narrative against the facts.

 

[grime]

This might have held water, if you said that there was no Dark Side either.

It creates countless contradictions here for you. The least, but most basic of which is the basic concept of "no dark without light."

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The nonexistence of one does not mean the other is also nonexistent, this point rests on a quirk of language, that's it. The concept of "no dark without light" also has no basis in the setting, unless you're suggesting that the force operates on the study of optics and light and shadow? Lol, I am saying the force encompasses nature, which, bereft of moral judgements, contains positive and negative emotions, suffering and peace, predators and prey, and life and death. However, the concept of the dark side is specifically the relationship a force sensitive has with the force when they are not at peace, as in they are in a state of disharmony with themselves and the nature of life and the world around them. I think that is pretty clear.

slow blinks... Pardon? "But beware the dark. Anger, fear, aggression. The Dark Side are they." - Yoda.

I'm just gonna put that out there at this point: You don't know the material well enough to speak on this.

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Alright, fair enough, I got the details wrong, and of course I've said earlier that the language choice by both the characters and Lucas himself is not perfect. But the core idea that I'm talking about is still true. The force has no "light side" nor does it have a "dark side" but what is referred to as the dark side, specifically in relation to sith and dark jedi, or jedi who accidentally use the dark side, is obviously a corruption of the force, or better yet, the result of a lack of balance within both the force user, and the force itself.

What I am curious about, is what Lucas interviews and videos support your view of the force? Where does Lucas talk about how scientific the force is, or how SW is more scifi and less fantasy. Where does Lucas reject the religious and mystical inspirations and influences that the force embodies? Because I'm almost certain you're dead wrong on that, and that you'll find that the vast majority if not everything Lucas talks about is how "balance" is almost explicitly about letting go, finding inner peace and acceptance with nature and life, including death, and loss. And that the opposite of this, the "darkside" is about existing in a state of disharmony with nature and rejecting loss and suffering and attempting to force life and nature to your will.

These are mutually exclusive, you cannot simultaneously have inner peace and acceptance and balance with nature, including life and death, joy and suffering, while also holding onto your pride and attempting to control the world and bend it to your will, and dwelling on your passions. There is no balance between "light and dark" here, the very idea is ludicrous, at any moment there is only inner peace, or various degrees of attachment, pride, and emotional turmoil.

 

[Ahtu]

What's interesting to me is that you keep citing Lucas's true intentions in the same post as you insisting on a "scientific" interpretation of the force that is "less fantasy" and more scifi. This seems very contradictory to me since Lucas pretty explicitly wrote SW not as a hard scifi but as a fantasy space opera with obvious mystical and religious inspiration.

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GL specifically designated his original releases as Sci-fi. And like most fantasy magical systems today, they're a bit of both. They've got their own well elaborated logic, which makes them more sci-fi, but also a fantasy function to it all, which makes it fantasy too(and yes, they're a space soap opera in his eyes too, everyone knows that).

I never said it didn't incorporate mystical, philosophical, or religious dogma's? I specifically said he pulled it from taoist monks, and the yin-yang concept?

This shit is ridiculously easy to find tho, basically any video you check on youtube will pull it up... It's at the level where it's barely worth looking for an exacting one to give the same perspective... He repeats it a lot... But you said you wanted one...?

(/sigh Do I have the energy to go looking for a shortish-clip where he summarizes this on youtube? I'm hungry and tired... Forgot to order food yesterday, out of drinks, and it's too late to go get some... And I really shouldn't have to bother with this myself, it's sooo easy to find... But on the other hand ppl will think I don't have a basis if I don't put it up right here... I don't like misunderstandings, but do I really care enough to convince ppl who are too lazy to check themselves? Fuck it, I'll go and get something from YT at least... Won't do this shit justice tho. Just something to clear the air. And then maybe something better later when I innevitably get faced with more denial regardless, I get something that's more exacting).

Aight here it goes(back in 5min, damn it all).

Alright, fair enough, I got the details wrong, and of course I've said earlier that the language choice by both the characters and Lucas himself is not perfect.

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Do you know what this is called? Contradicting the facts. You're doing it A LOT.

Now I'm gonna go back to look for that video, which I annoyingly have to use the other computer for, because the wireless headset here died a few days ago, and it's the middle of the night.

It's lucky that it's so fkn easy to find -.- Here you go:

Spoiler: George Lucas on The Force.

CapCaverna You should probably check it out too. Would do more for this than reading and not believing anything I say on the matter.

On that note CapCaverna you were right the first time around. More right than now at least. Some things were a bit off(like what happens when you cut Kyber Crystals), but I'm not that nitpicky.

Now ofc you'll be dismissing this before you've watched more than a min I'd guess. And I should probably point out exactly where you should check, because ppl are fkn lazy. So just jump 45 sec in and watch 25sec.

PS. Do not equate religion, science and philosophy. They CAN intersect, but they are not the same. The Force was based on a philsophical idea, born out of a mix of ancient religions and philosophies. But its function in the SW world is essentially scientific, even if it's as amorpheous and changing as life itself. It's not so easy, direct and simple as our physics, but it still has its own scientific rules - Its own descriptions and functions. Its a natural force, but not for good or evil - It's tied to life, so it aims for balance, and that is between The Light and The Dark - as GL himself clearly states.

PPS. It's far from the only time he's made statements like this.

 

[Lokabrenna]

Maybe the word choice wasn't perfect on Lucas's part, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about lol.

The Jedi never once in the story state that emotions, or anger or hatred or loss or death are unnatural.

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Way to completely miss/misinterpret what I said. I never said in any way that the Jedi or anyone else called anger or hate unnatural. I was pointing out the logical inconsistency between two claims made about the Dark Side of the Force:

Claim #1: That Anger, Fear, and Hatred are of the Dark Side, that they draw, fuel, and/or generate the energy field known as the Dark Side.

And Claim #2: That the Dark Side is an aberration, an unnatural spiritual cancer on the life energy that is the Force.

My point was that these two claims are fundamentally incompatible with each other, because the "Dark" emotions are, in fact, perfectly natural. And if those Dark Emotions are basically what produces the Dark Side - what the Dark Side is made of - then the Dark Side itself logically cannot be some unnatural perversion of the Force. The logical conclusion is that one - or both - of these claims must be false. I personally lean toward Claim #2 being the false one, which was my entire point with that post.

 

[Ahtu]

Way to completely miss/misinterpret what I said. I never said in any way that the Jedi or anyone else called anger or hate unnatural. I was pointing out the logical inconsistency between two claims made about the Dark Side of the Force:

Claim #1: That Anger, Fear, and Hatred are of the Dark Side, that they draw, fuel, and/or generate the energy field known as the Dark Side.

And Claim #2: That the Dark Side is an aberration, an unnatural spiritual cancer on the life energy that is the Force.

My point was that these two claims are fundamentally incompatible with each other, because the "Dark" emotions are, in fact, perfectly natural. And if those Dark Emotions are basically what produces the Dark Side - what the Dark Side is made of - then the Dark Side itself logically cannot be some unnatural perversion of the Force. The logical conclusion is that one - or both - of these claims must be false. I personally lean toward Claim #2 being the false one, which was my entire point with that post.

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I think it could be argued that at their extremes, both are perversions of the force. Both in their effect upon life and the world around them, and in their philosophies(just positive emotions, just negative emotions).

That is also idd what GL himself argues. And in this I would be inclined to agree with him(because it falls in line with what we see, and what is stated in the first 6 movies. And it falls in line with the vast majority of the EU. And I mean like 95% or more). In short it makes sense, and it's consistent.

It should be noted tho, that anger itself is not "the dark side." It's when you act upon, embrace it, and let if fill you, that it becomes The Dark Side. "When you feel anger in your every connection to The Force. THEN. You'll have discovered, The Dark Side!"(OBS! Also not narrative, but I also think it has a partial point. It is when your connection to the force is tainted by negative emotions that you get "The Dark Side." That is how it's manufactured, after that it can be destroyed, defeated, consumed, or even pushed into objects. To the point that an object sort of takes on a life of its own. The same is true of The Light. And probably the hypothetical neutral Force).

This is not 100% congruent with what Yoda says, I agree. But that's because the Jedi are once again NOT narrative. They're ppl with their own perspectives.

Very few force users truly had any right to narrate even remotely on the workings of The Force. One of them would be Plagueis, another Revan, then Kreia, and Vitiate. To some degree Qui-gon, Kyle Katarn, and Jolee Bindo could also give some notes. As could that guy from the Dark Temple, whose name I keep forgetting. The Sith Empire tried to bury him, but he supposedly used the force in neutrality somehow. He didn't seem to serve some moral imperative, or advocate for some natural order per se. He simply said: There's only The Force. And that Light and Dark are merely fanciful uses of the same power, which is ultimately probably quite true. And on some techinical level is ALWAYS true.

Edit:

Spoiler: Found out the name of the guy in the Dark Temple

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Kel'eth_Ur

It just came to me as I was musing on other things, so I thought I'd provide a link to show who I was referencing.

It also makes a fair bit of sense. Imagine that The Force is filling you, and you feed it negative emotions - And it then creates a loop where you enhance yourself with that negatively charged energy. Making you pissy. Which just keeps to the idea that The Force enhances whatever you put into it, and does what you want it to, so to speak. You fill yourself with rage, it enhances the rage, you feel rage, you want to do rage-filled wishes, you do rage-filled shit - You destroy, you corrupt, you hurt, you kill. Until you eventually completely consume yourself as well.

Throughout, The Force as an energy doesn't really care per se. Oh it has a pull towards Balance, but it's not actually conscious. It works more like how water wants to spread and lay evenly.

 

[seeing_octarine]

Claim #1: That Anger, Fear, and Hatred are of the Dark Side, that they draw, fuel, and/or generate the energy field known as the Dark Side.

And Claim #2: That the Dark Side is an aberration, an unnatural spiritual cancer on the life energy that is the Force.

My point was that these two claims are fundamentally incompatible with each other, because the "Dark" emotions are, in fact, perfectly natural. And if those Dark Emotions are basically what produces the Dark Side - what the Dark Side is made of - then the Dark Side itself logically cannot be some unnatural perversion of the Force. The logical conclusion is that one - or both - of these claims must be false. I personally lean toward Claim #2 being the false one, which was my entire point with that post.

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I personally take the position that both claims are true, and the real problem is imprecise language.

For claim #1 you have Force-magnified anger, fear, hatred, and other negative emotions that tend to form feedback loops. That's what is called the dark side, as contrasted by releasing your feelings into the force.

For claim #2 you have the philosophy of the Sith, where the goal is to subjugate the Force to use it for your own ends rather than going along with the normal currents of the galaxy. That's also what is called the dark side, and the process of doing that would be viewed as a form of corruption.

In the end there is only the Force, and a whole pile of sometimes ambiguous and contradictory religious doctrine stacked on top of it.

 

[Ahtu]

I personally take the position that both claims are true, and the real problem is imprecise language.

For claim #1 you have Force-magnified anger, fear, hatred, and other negative emotions that tend to form feedback loops. That's what is called the dark side, as contrasted by releasing your feelings into the force.

For claim #2 you have the philosophy of the Sith, where the goal is to subjugate the Force to use it for your own ends rather than going along with the normal currents of the galaxy. That's also what is called the dark side, and the process of doing that would be viewed as a form of corruption.

In the end there is only the Force, and a whole pile of sometimes ambiguous and contradictory religious doctrine stacked on top of it.

Click to shrink...

Hmmm... That is a slightly Jedi take, but not necessarily wrong... As long as you remember that it's a perspective, not an absolute truth - That is as far as I'm aware, somewhat congruent with the lore.

It makes a very hard distinction between different variants on "The Dark Side" however. One that is actually in line with some Sith thinking. Where they think they can break and bend it to their will, rather than the force merely coming at them from another angle. It's very hard to tell what the truth there is. But again, that is what leaves it open to interpretation.

I'm of the perspective that you're somewhat right. Although I don't think they're different expressions of The Dark Sides, just different ways to use The Force, no matter if it's The Dark Side or not. I do not know if it's truly impossible to bend and break the force using the "The Light"(or maybe even neutrality) or not. But It's not what The Dark Side originally is about, as I think the Dark Jedi prove.

It may be that only The Dark Side can bend and break it with such brutality, due to its inherent nature. But I suspect it's ultimately no different than a Light user bending it in more subtle and cunning ways - Not ultimately.

 

[DepressedUniStudent]

Where does the idea that the Light side inherently corrupts you to eventually become an emotionless robot of Justice come from? I swear, it feels like it's a connection people drew between the Jedi order being an order of monks (living regimented, disciplined lives) and assuming they represent the "Light" and how it works; and with the fact that Dark Side corruption is shown over and over again so there must be some "Light" version.

Maybe I'm just cracked, but I vastly prefer the more simplified version of he Force. Not everything has to be a complex mix, some things can just be good and evil.

> simple man
> 'ate the Dark
> 'ate 'Grey'
> luv the Force
> simple 'as

 

[Bartimaeus]

Now I'm confused, as I have at best a basic understanding of Star Wars. Thusly I got a couple points that I'd bei greatful for If s.b. could explain.

"The force" as I understand it is Split into 4 categories.
Living Force, Unifying Force, Cosmic Force, Physical Force.
How woud you differentiate that If not based on intent and how would these conceps fit in with "extensed canon" or the above mentioned "Lucas canon"?

 

[Morkail]

Thanks for the chapter.

personally always preferred the ying yang style of looking at the force, the force it's self is not something that's supposed to be fully understand by a mortal being. If your fall to much to the light side you become detached from the world and it's Affairs and start to resemble a robot which is what I believe happened to the Jedi order by the time of the clone wars. They were actively training their members to give as much of them self's to the light side as possible but the light side isn't good it's just a spectrum of the force.

the dark side is much easier to understand emotions are inherently volatile and using them as your source of power is bound to be dangerous, that and where failing to deeply to the light side merely makes you detached and indifferent to your own impending death outside of how it effects the jedi goals, falling the dark side can warp your personality and turn you in to a raving lunatic.

doesn't help that for most of the siths history any time they take some one to train it's either to make a said lunatic as a disposable weapon, or if there taking a true apprentice they do everything possible to break them down or outright break them, there is a reason they take a new name as darth. At the end of the day coming out the other end of Sith training as your self is as likely as winning the lotto your going to be a different person at the end and most likely your a creature your master made you.

all that said Star Wars lore is a fucking mess at this point it's starting to remind me of DnD feel like Oneday soon I'm going to toss my hands in the air and just say I only follow old legends stuff like I did after the spellpleague.

 

[CapCaverna]

EDIT: anyone has a good suggestion for DInah's cape name? I'm really having trouble coming up with something
___________________________

Anakin's body floated in the air in a cross-legged position, his hands resting on his knees, his lightsaber floating in front of him while his mind was fully immersed in the Force.

Inside his mind, he saw strands of blood rising from the ocean below, the maelstrom of power that formed his mental projection absorbing them and deepening in color, the red growing darker by the second as it swirled around the light core on his chest.

On his lap, his old helmet stared back at him, the mirrored lenses reflecting the shapeless face, his blue eyes the last remains he still had of his old life. Dark tendrils stretched from the metal, sneaking their way through his body, his soul.

Whispers filled his ears, muffled screams, offers of power, fears old and new, they all assaulted him.

Shifting his eyes away from the helmet, he looked down, watching as buildings rose from the ocean. Made from dried blood, they formed the small, insignificant city he had found himself in —Brockton Bay, small enough that he could crush it in his palm… or control it as he wished.

Gathering his will, he slowly let his fear seep out of him, letting the Force fill its place and sensing the bright spot of light standing in front of him, a few thin, glowing strings stretching towards it, braiding themselves around each other to grow stronger.

Grabbing the helmet, he lifted it up, tearing the dark tendrils from his spirit and shredding them with determination until only the helmet remained. For a moment, he wished to destroy the cursed thing, use the Force to crush it into an unrecognizable ball, throw it away.

Instead, he used a single hand to lift it up in front of his face, the helmet seeming to stare at him. He stared back.

With a thrum of power, the small, blue lightsaber cut the air, and then did it again and again until the sound of the blade filled the workshop.

Opening his eyes, Anakin uncrossed his legs, stepping back on the floor and clasping his own lightsaber back to his waist. In front of him, Dinah swung her newly acquired weapon.

He hadn't taught her any lightsaber sequences —those required a greater connection to the Force than she currently had— but she was using her Matukai stances to wield the tool as if it was a normal sword or staff.

"What… are you doing?"

"Come on, I meditated, for an entire hour even!" the girl said, sheepishly turning off her blade. "I wanna learn to wield it! You can't just give me a sword and not let me use it."

His first instinct was to reprimand her, but she had meditated for a full hour. At her age, he'd have found a reason to stop much earlier… or fallen asleep.

Star's end, he could actually remember skipping on a meditative retreat to go stay with Padme as a fully grown adult. Ah, in hindsight, he truly pitied Obi-Wan.

"Come on, train me," Dinah begged. "Teach me the ways, master!"

"You are not yet capable of wielding the lightsaber as a Jedi, or Sith," he sighed, pulling his lightsaber to his hand yet again. "Regardless, I suppose I can teach you, not every technique requires the Force."

With a thought, he made sure to adjust the field of his own lightsaber, preventing it from causing much damage.

Anakin highly preferred Form V in all its permutations, but it required an excess of physical strength that Dinah would not be able to display for a long time even if she mastered the use of the Force.

In truth, he felt the girl would fit well with the aggressiveness of Form IV, but it was a style that heavily emphasized the use of the Force. Her missing arm would also be a problem.

Form I, the most basic and the one who most resembled the use of a sword required both hands and, while her prosthetic was incredibly useful, it did not have the full range or the fast response of a cybernetic arm.

Turning his body sideways, he put one arm behind his back and lowered his lightsaber, the tip pointing forwards and down at the floor, the blade blocking any attacks to his leg. "This is one of the most traditional stances of Form II, Makashi; with this you can transition to either attack or defense as needed, copy me."

Eagerly, Dinah stands beside him, using her own lightsaber to imitate his stance. Taking a second to watch her, he couldn't help smiling when she did so perfectly, no longer needing him to adjust her position.

He didn't explore the form too much, simply teaching her how to move her legs, how to transition and block from different sides as well as two ways of attacking or countering an attack.

It… would not really be useful in a fight, but the movements looked good and he could build on them later.

"So, when can I start cutting bullets out of the air?" she asked, repeating the same slash for the tenth time.

"Patience. Increasing your Force sensitivity will take time," he chided, flickering her forehead with the Force.

"Ouch," she actually said, taking a second to rub her forehead. "But, you said there's a ritual or something, can't you do it?"

"I do possess the ability to enhance Force sensitivity, it was one of the few powers my former Master taught me, and I know of witches that could achieve similar things," Anakin said, making a small correction on Dinah's movement. "Unfortunately, I do not know if it can be done through the Force or only by channeling the Dark Side."

"Am I not ready or something?" she asked, lowering the lightsaber and having it touch the floor, the tip slowly starting to burn the material. "Or are you trying to do it with the light side?"

"There is no 'light side', there's only the Force and the Dark Side," Anakin explained, his eyes looking away from the girl. "The Jedi considered the Dark Side a curse, a cancer that has no use, no redeeming qualities and no place in the world but to cause pain."

"But… you use the Dark Side?" Dinah asked, turning off her lightsaber.

"I no longer fear the Dark Side, but it has a cost, one you have yet to understand and, as such, must not be made to bear lest it corrupts you."

Turning towards the youngling, Anakin sat down on his work chair, his hands resting at each arm while he gathered his thoughts. "The Dark Side offers strength faster and more readily available than any other path, however, there is always a cost."

"Like becoming a parahuman…" Dinah whispered.

"It is… similar," Anakin said, he had read about trigger events and, while they were vastly different from the use of the Dark Side, it would suffice to illustrate his point.

"Fine, I can take it slow," she grumbled, clasping her lightsaber to a new belt she got around her waist. "Say, are you gonna take me with you?"

"Do you wish to come?"

"Hell yeah?" she looked up at him like she couldn't believe he'd even asked.

"Very well, go take your shower."

Anakin watched the girl run towards the small bathroom they had at the workshop, quickly kicking off her shoes and dropping the prosthetic on top of the table before slamming the door shut behind her.

"I must admit, it will be quite satisfying to watch as you deal with the meatbags," the droid said as it disconnected from a socket and floated towards Anakin.

"You believe it will be necessary?" Anakin looked at him without turning his head.

"Disobeying your directives would be foolish, serve no purpose and reveal a disturbing lack of self preservation," Hal bobbed in the air. "In other words, typical meatbag behavior."

Anakin didn't answer, simply stretching his senses through the world around them and searching for anyone watching, he did not find any, it seemed like Coil had finally given up on keeping a direct watch on their location.

Dinah quickly returned from her shower with various articles of her costume in-hand rather than worn. Putting on his mask, Anakin tidied his cape and watched as Dinah copied his movements, her armor and helmet making her look like a smaller version of himself, Hal floating above her head.

With a flick of her wrists, she covered her head with the hood and radiated satisfaction, striking a pose while doing her best to make the movement seem natural.

Stepping out of the workshop, Anakin saw an old lady sitting on the other side of the street, a black cat on her lap. Lifting an arm, she gave them a wave, a smile blossoming on her face.

For a full second, Anakin just stared at the woman, his stupefaction made worse by the old woman's feelings actually being true. When was the last time someone had felt happy at seeing him?

Well, besides Dinah.

Twenty minutes later, they stepped out of the car in front of six young gang members, they wore the ABB colors, but Anakin could already see they weren't as tainted.

Through his senses, they felt like typical harsh teenagers, filled with bravado, anger and fear, but not the malicious hate or the desire to hurt.

Rushing out of a nearby building, an older man bowed towards him, his head hanging low as he regained his breath.

"Boss, I-I didn't know if you were actually going to come," Jun Watanabe said, the youngest of Lung's remaining lieutenants.

"And yet, you have arranged the meeting," Anakin said through his mask, no sign of the softness he displayed with Dinah in his voice.

"Of course, I mean, after what you did to Lung and Oni-Lee, nobody would dare deny you," the man said, a bead of sweat falling down his face. "But what am I saying out here? Come in, we have prepared your part of the week's earnings. It's a little lacking since we had to drop some of our most lucrative deals and a lot of the boys left —not your fault, obviously, totally ours, but please…"

"You are overly fond of speaking," Anakin said, walking by the man entering the old, four story abandoned club.

"Apologies, I'm… going to stay quiet now."

Dinah suppressed a snort at his side, but Anakin simply glanced at her before following the feelings towards the inside of the building.

The place was entirely gray, the walls were once covered in wallpaper, but it had long since been peeled away by time or teenage hands, ABB tags of all shapes and sizes covering every corridor or door.

And yet, the place smelled clean, there were no signs of mold anywhere and, as they walked further up a set of stairs, the building started looking better. It wasn't perfect, but someone had clearly taken the trouble to fix everything.

Stepping on the last floor, Anakin took stock of the situation, the remaining ABB leadership stood at attention, clearly divided into groups and feeling a mixture of fear and anxiousness.
.
.
.
.
Aoi Sato couldn't forget the day he saw death. Being one of Lung's top Lieutenants, one in charge of the brothels, perhaps his highest grossing business, he had always had a healthy fear of the Dragon.

Unconsciously, he scratched at the scabs over the sword's burn on his face. The weapon hadn't even touched him, but it still destroyed the skin over his right cheek and caused him immense pain.

Then there were the two bullet holes in his legs and the headache from whatever Susano-o had done to get the information from his head. This, this was why he didn't bother parahumans!

"Sato, ask for a raise, they need you, you have to ask for what you're worth."
"Sato, you should kill that damn Korean, maybe then you can leave those cursed brothels."
"Aoi Sato, if I catch you staring at a naked woman again I swear I'll cut your balls off."

For fuck's sake, he loved Akemi but she was utterly insane. He had managed to rise in the gang all while snagging a comfortable job away from the violence of the streets, one that the Dragon couldn't give a shit about as long as it continued to earn him money.

So what if he had to stare at naked prostitutes or didn't earn as much as he could, it wasn't like he partook of the merchandise and he was certainly NOT gonna bother the Korean for a raise, much less the Dragon himself.

As for killing the Korean? That was even worse. He liked having at least one body between him and Lung at all times, thank you very much.

He kind of liked his job anyway; he got to stare at naked girls, earned a lot of money, almost never had to see violence and got to order his men around. Heck, he even liked to keep his girls happy and protected.

Happy prostitutes earned more, took better care of themselves and treated him much better than his wife. He wasn't gonna cheat on her, but it was nice having at least some kindness in his daily life.

If he changed jobs, they'd probably put some asshole in his place, one who'd take advantage of the girls, let his men take advantage of them and probably try to get extra money for letting the clients get rough with them.

Sato wasn't a saint, but he wasn't a demon either. It cost him nothing to keep his brothels clean and his girls happy.

He was aware Nam Hoang had treated the girls on the street much worse and even forced some of them —many too young for his liking— against their will, but he couldn't help everyone.

Fucker was dead anyway, had refused to turn himself in and the Korean had taken care of that. Tae-Soo Park was one scary motherfucker, almost as scary as the parahumans.

Really, Susano-o's demands were insane. In any other gang it simply wouldn't work.

Fortunately for them, Lung had created the ABB, he had shaped it with him as the absolute leader. Far too many of their men had died, burned alive by his hands just for questioning an order. The only ones left were used to obeying.

Almost against his will, Sato's feet tried to tap against the ground, but it only caused him to suck in a breath and grit his teeth as the bullet wounds sent a jolt of pain through his body.

Behind his oak chair, Li Xiu put her manicured hands on his shoulders and started massaging them, making him relax. The madam for his main brothel had been helping him with the street girls after Hoang's death and he decided to take her with him.

"I didn't think you'd be here," Tae-Soo, the Korean, said from his seat on the red armchair. "I didn't have time to look over your business, but I always thought you took advantage of your position."

"Ha, if I did, it would only be once, Akemi would have fed me my balls," he answered, not daring to ignore the current leader of the ABB, well, at least until Susano-o decided what to do with them.

San-Dae burst into laughter, having followed Tae-Soo when Lung took over their gang; the mountain of muscle accidentally kicked his pickaxe and almost dropped it to the floor before putting it to the side.

"I didn't think so few of us would be here," Zhang Li said, the old Chinese man. "Did they all decide to turn themselves in? I admit our new master is impressive, but the depths of stupidity on some people is equally so."

"No, they didn't," Tao-Soo said. "Fortunately, without the dragon, I took the chance to make some… adjustments to our numbers."

"Ah, right, I forgot how much you hated some of us," the old man laughed, but his hand was hidden on his clothes. "Coward, should have done it with Lung here."

"Hate is too strong a word," Tae-Soo shook his head, ignoring the insult and taking another puff of his cigarette. "I despise incompetency, one of the many reasons I didn't despise Lung. The dragon was at least competent when he wanted to be, he was just lazy."

That raised a few eyebrows, but they heard young Watanabe bringing Susano-o up the stairs and quieted down. San-Dae immediately grabbed his pickaxe, the old man palmed his revolver and even Li Xiu took her hands off his shoulder to grab something under her dress.

Sato didn't bother arming himself, he couldn't even get up, the fingers on one of his hands were still recovering and he had seen what Susano-o was capable of with that sword of his.

Heck, if he knew the Dragon would get killed, he wouldn't have resisted so much.

Tae-Soo too didn't react, simply finishing off his cigarette and crossing his legs.

Susano-o marched into the room, his armored boots seeming to shake the ground, or maybe that was just Sato's heart beating against his chest. There seemed to be an aura of fear around the man, his black mask seeming to stare down at their soul.

The aura was almost like when the blonde bimbo flew over the brothel, only ten times worse, as if a weight settled into his body, dragging him down and making his limbs lose strength. A combination of dread and awe, as if he was staring right into a massive predator and nothing he could ever do would change anything.

Sato wondered if this was how it felt to face an Endbringer.

The parahuman towered over them, his armor making him look massive as he stood unnaturally still, his head slowly going over them in an almost dismissive way before settling on him. "Aoi Sato, I did not expect to see you again."

The voice seemed to echo in the room, causing even Tao-Soo to grip the arm of his chair and tense. Sato himself couldn't take his eyes away from Susano-o's face, his legs shaking despite the pain.

"I-I have a wife, never touched any of the girls," Sato said, swallowing hard before continuing. "Didn't break any of your other rules too."

"Surprising, you do not appear to be lying," Susano-o commented before shifting away from Sato, taking a full minute to look at everyone present. "You all seem to be… tolerable."

Sato nearly collapsed back against his chair, his heart beating almost as hard as it ever had, the fingers on his good hand releasing their death-grip on the wood. As he relaxed, he finally noticed the small girl beside Susano-o.

She looked a lot like him. The same way of moving, the same rigid body, the same mask, coupled with a dark cape… even if she couldn't help taking fast glances around herself and wasn't as unnerving. Heck, he thought she looked far too cute for a mini dragon killer.

Then the rest of Susano-o's words registered. The guy could read minds now? Or at least sense lies. Damn it, just how many powers did he have!

"I'm glad we passed your test," Tae-Soo said, uncrossing his legs and leaning forward, his arms resting on his knees as he stared at the parahumans. "What now?"

"There was a time I had an empire at my back, endless supplies and information at my beck and call. That time has passed," he said again, his steps echoing as he paced through the building. "I have goals; I require resources to meet them."

Well, that pretty much confirmed Susano-o was some kind of warlord, didn't it? With his presence and way of moving, Sato would think he was from Japan, but he had never heard of anyone like that back home.

No, the guy was probably from Africa. Did he get kicked out by Moord Nag or something? Heck, if the Dragon killer got kicked out of somewhere, just how freaking strong were the guys that managed it?

"I thought you wanted nothing to do with the ABB," Tae-Soo asked again. "We had a deal. The ABB gets rid of the worst offenders without you needing to act and you leave us alone."

Sato couldn't help staring at his Boss; the damn Korean must have balls of steel or something. For a second, he thought he'd hear the same hum of power that haunted his nightmare for the last week; instead, he swore Susano-o was amused when he answered.

"… I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further."

Tae-Soo glared at the masked parahumans, but his anger seemed to simply bounce off the man with no effect. Above the girl's head, the tinkertech drone she used swung his way, a red light blinking.

"Please, do refuse," it said in a robotic but incredibly sad voice. "I had anticipated you meatbags to be wholly unintelligent. I beseech you, do not disappoint me."

"Heh, we're criminals, young Tae-Soo," the old man actually snickered as he looked at the Korean's angry face. "I don't think this guy respect's us enough to keep his word in anything."

Susano-o didn't kill the idiot, but he also didn't deny the accusation, which, in Sato's opinion, did not bode well for them.

"Fine, not like we have a choice," the Korean leaned back on his chair and sighed, one of his hands going over his eyes. "What do you need?"

"I will require a new house. There is also a list of materials," Susano-o said, pulling a piece of paper from inside his armor and floating it towards Tae-Soo.

The ABB leader read the list, his eyes widening slightly at how long it was. Eventually, he threw the thing towards the old man. "Can you do it?"

"What the fuck do you need all this for? To build a tinkertech castle or something?" the old man asked, causing the atmosphere to grow heavy as Susano-o shifted his focus towards him. "Yeah, yeah, I can do it!"

"Good. You have until next week."

"This is most vexing," the floating drone said. "Will no one ever attempt to attack him? Please?"

Unsurprisingly, no one took him up on the offer, even that brute San-Dae.

Goal achieved —as if they were going to say no— Susano-o turned around, pausing slightly at the door. "What are the chances one of the ABB will break my rules this week?"

"Huh? Forty seven point nine, six, nine, one percent chance," the young girl said.

Turning back towards them, Susano-o seemed to bring the full weight of his attention towards the gathered gang leaders, something seeming to grip their hearts and squeeze, a feeling of absolute terror.

"I expect those numbers to be below ten percent by the end of the day. Do not disappoint me," saying that, Susano-o turned his back to them, striding out of the room quickly followed by his young companion.

For a few minutes, they all just stayed quiet, as if opening their mouths would bring the damn guy back but, finally, Zhang Li said what they were all thinking.

"Fuck me, who's the fucking idiot trying to test the dragon slayer?"





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[mpbjunkie]

He said the thing!

I wonder what he wants to build.

 

[Prince awsome]

In other words, typical meatbag behavior."

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is this droid going to start praising the omnissiah ?

great chapter.
it's a damn shame non of them tried attacking lord vader

 

[Nt23]

is this droid going to start praising the omnissiah ?

great chapter.
it's a damn shame non of them tried attacking lord vader

Click to shrink...

I was imagining it speaking like an HK assassin droid with the meatbag thing going.

 

[xbox432]

While I'll admit that's a good choice, can't go wrong with HK. But due to the meatbag comments, I've mostly been reading it's voice as Bender Bending Rodriguez. Though that might just be because I'm so happy at hearing Futurama is getting another season.

 

[noobarta]

Would Oracle be a good name for Dinah? Like they can only answer a set number of questions

 

[oscar e Sampedro Lopez]

He said the thing!

I wonder what he wants to build.

Click to shrink...

my money is on a small ship or more droids

 

[JohnSmithMIB]

Maybe Kannagi if you're sticking with a Japanese theme.
Wiki says it's genderless word for a Shinto shaman. One that communicates with kami to get answers.

 

[CapCaverna]

Maybe Kannagi if you're sticking with a Japanese theme.
Wiki says it's genderless word for a Shinto shaman. One that communicates with kami to get answers.

Click to shrink...

We're not, Anakin got saddled with Susanoo because he doesn't care at all, he would be content on being Polaris or anything else. (Really, even now, he'd be perfectly happy going by Anakin, he's just humoring Dinah by using a mask and doesn't care about PHO or PR)

Dinah DOES care about her name, she wants something cool.

1 - It doesn't NEED to be about her power.
2 - It NEEDS to be cool, she wants something cool
3 - It CAN be edgy, she's young, she likes edgy things.
4 - bonus if it has to do with swords, or one of Anakin's powers since she wants to learn them

 

[ThunderBasilisk]

Cant wait to see what was on the list. And damn someones dumb enough to ignore Anakin? Well Darwinism will sort them out.