With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Dakkan Sall]

Since Ringestro hasn't charged yet? I guess they could manage to recharge Avarice but not Fear, eh?

Click to shrink...

Well, considering that once that embarrassing little war between him and Artemis's factions was over, he didn't need to subjugate and instead build/rebuild... Properly directed Avarice would be a lot more of a useful trait to cultivate than Fear. No sense terrorizing your own subjects when they're already following you wholeheartedly (and that you're not Darkseid).

 

[Sockmonkey]

New Gods stop aging at thirty, and Artemis was a teenager at the start of this arc, so if they've been away for years of personal time she's going to look like an adult.

 

[Agent Orange]

AND WE'RE FINALLY
OUT OF HERE!

Click to shrink...

Impossibru! Everything since the conversation with Starbreaker is just a dream. You're still stuck in the end of times. Deep Inception style.

Even if my theory's true, that's thirteen years of being moulded by the Land of Summer's End.

Click to shrink...

... how did he get from 'centuries of offscreen conquest and civilisation building' to 'thirteen years'?! Does that mean that Artemis is a very young looking thirty-year-old? If Grayven isn't nearing his thousandth birthday any more does that mean that Luna is cradle-robbing once more?

Just be on the watch for Starbreaker.

Click to shrink...

Wait. They left a "mortal" Starbreaker wandering about the wasteland? They didn't portal to him and brand him immediately after dealing with Melmoth?! What the fuck? Is this another one of those poorly shown 'it totally happened offscreen' things?

 

[Darko]

New Gods stop aging at thirty, and Artemis was a teenager at the start of this arc, so if they've been away for years of personal time she's going to look like an adult.

Click to shrink...

There might be exceptions to that.

Highfather looks like an old guy, as does Granny Goodness, and renegade said that aside from the white hair Artemis looks the same, so it's possible she still looks like a teenager.

 

[Mr Zoat]

'Starbreaker'
maybe 'to have to'
'command'
'and the space within'
'she'd be a lot'

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

The spellcheck is throwing an error at this, but it's best guess is 'Puppeteering'... Worth double-checking?

Click to shrink...

The internet says it's fine.

i thought melmoth replaced his blood with the water from the fountain of youth or something like that?

Click to shrink...

He has, and he'll probably get better. But not for a little while.

 

[Mr Zoat]

... how did he get from 'centuries of offscreen conquest and civilisation building' to 'thirteen years'?! Does that mean that Artemis is a very young looking thirty-year-old? If Grayven isn't nearing his thousandth birthday any more does that mean that Luna is cradle-robbing once more?

Click to shrink...

Artemis was 17. They stop ageing at 30. 30-17=13.

Wait. They left a "mortal" Starbreaker wandering about the wasteland? They did portal to him and brand him immediately after dealing with Melmoth?! What the fuck? Is this another one of those poorly shown 'it totally happened offscreen' things?

Click to shrink...

They don't know where on the planet he is, or if he's reappeared yet, or even if he will reappear.

 

[Agent Orange]

Artemis was 17. They stop ageing at 30. 30-17=13.

Click to shrink...

That's not what I asked. How did he get 'we were stuck here for 13 years' from Artemis' appearance? If New Gods 'stop ageing at 30' that only means that after 13 years have passed her appearent age cannot be used to guesstimate the time they spent there. Because she'll look essentially the same for any number of centuries after she grows to her 'mature form'.

So how did her appearance tell him that 'centuries' they supposedly spent in the Future were in fact "mere" 13 years?

They don't know where on the planet he is, or if he's reappeared yet, or even if he will reappear.

Click to shrink...

He has a (mysteriously) charged up power ring on his finger. Can't he scan the planet for him? Just exclude every non-Sheeda humanoid from the scan results?

 

[Mr Zoat]

That's not what I asked. How did he get 'we were stuck here for 13 years' from Artemis' appearance? If New Gods 'stop ageing at 30' that only means that after 13 years have passed her appearent age cannot be used to guesstimate the time they spent there. Because she'll look essentially the same for any number of centuries after she grows to her 'mature form'.

So how did her appearance tell him that 'centuries' they supposedly spent in the Future were in fact "mere" 13 years?

Click to shrink...

Grayven does not think that they have been in the future for thirteen years.

You have my assurance as author that he is correct and it has been substantially longer than that.

Grayven thinks that Artemis was more plastic than him as a result of not having his the 'no change post thirty' limit before they arrived.

 

[Ngamer11]

Grayven does not think that they have been in the future for thirteen years.

You have my assurance as author that he is correct and it has been substantially longer than that.

Grayven thinks that Artemis was more plastic than him as a result of not having his the 'no change post thirty' limit before they arrived.

Click to shrink...

Basically, although they will still get more experiences, New Gods are technically in their developmental phase until they hit 30 years old. Is that it Mr Zoat?

 

[Ardy]

Grayven does not think that they have been in the future for thirteen years.

You have my assurance as author that he is correct and it has been substantially longer than that.

Click to shrink...

Holy crap, an unambiguous answer on how long it's been!

....please don't switch to paragon, I really want to see Artemis' fallout from this

 

[The Unaligned Player]

What little faith I had just got even smaller.

Click to shrink...

How does one get a less than Zero value in reality?

 

[Mr Zoat]

How does one get a less than Zero value in reality?

Click to shrink...

Dig a hole?

Basically, although they will still get more experiences, New Gods are technically in their developmental phase until they hit 30 years old. Is that it Mr Zoat?

Click to shrink...

That's Grayven's the Renegade's mused theory, yes.

 

[DrThoth]

Renegade should know a bit more about Witch World than is implied in this update since he has access to construct-Klarion, though maybe he does and just isn't thinking about it at the moment. I wonder if he'll identify that realm as a potentially useful one to make contact with, possibly to relieve his desires for old-school Conquering; a planet of literally puritanical magic-users seems like a long-term project he'd be interested in pursuing.

That's Grayven's mused theory, yes.

Click to shrink...

Sorry if I forgot you shifted your nomenclature, but if not, I believe this should be Renegade.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Renegade should know a bit more about Witch World than is implied in this update since he has access to construct-Klarion, though maybe he does and just isn't thinking about it at the moment. I wonder if he'll identify that realm as a potentially useful one to make contact with, possibly to relieve his desires for old-school Conquering; a planet of literally puritanical magic-users seems like a long-term project he'd be interested in pursuing.

Click to shrink...

Grayven doesn't actually like assimilation.

Sorry if I forgot you shifted your nomenclature, but if not, I believe this should be Renegade.

Click to shrink...

You're quite correct.

 

[DrThoth]

Grayven doesn't actually like assimilation.

Click to shrink...

He still has Savage and possibly the others transcribing their life stories in a closet somewhere or something, so I assumed he did the same with Klarion. Unless he just hasn't gotten around to reading all their notes yet.

 

[Darko]

He still has Savage and possibly the others transcribing their life stories in a closet somewhere or something, so I assumed he did the same with Klarion. Unless he just hasn't gotten around to reading all their notes yet.

Click to shrink...

He did assimilate Klarion during the Excavation episode if I remember correctly.

He also assimilated Savage and Ras to deal with their immortality.

He has been reading what they write, as he's made mentions of things like a place Savage once passed by, and how he lied about being a certain historical figure.

The only one I think he assimilated after Darkseid gave him a piece of the AL Equation was Klarion, and that was because he wanted the knowledge he had and may have been worried that he can somehow become powerful again.

 

[webxro]

So this is what Zoat said when he said

Wallace's turn. "Never have I ever slept with two sisters."

I grab another glass with a growl. How did he even find out about that!? And why is everyone looking at Artemis?

"No. No! Grayven, tell them!"

"Hahahahahaha!"

Click to shrink...

Was it all planned out ? Because that thingie is from 2014

 

[Darko]

So this is what Zoat said when he said



Was it all planned out ? Because that thingie is from 2014

Click to shrink...

Renegade did have sex with both Koriand'r and Komand'r after he rescued them, so I think he meant this and not this thing with Artemis.

Don't know if he was planning this Sheeda thing back then, but he and Artemis didn't have sex and the others were probably looking at her since he did date Jade, who is Artemis' sister.

 

[Steelplaza]

It occurs to me that some of the telepathic genomorphs might be able to help Artemis and the Renegade. Not erasing memories or anything, but drawing memories of their 21st century life back to the front of their minds and helping move Sheeda-land back to the status of long term memories.

 

[Darko]

It occurs to me that some of the telepathic genomorphs might be able to help Artemis and the Renegade. Not erasing memories or anything, but drawing memories of their 21st century life back to the front of their minds and helping move Sheeda-land back to the status of long term memories.

Click to shrink...

Renegade already suggested she use the Genomorphs to download knowledge, because she may not be able to go back to school now due to everything she experienced, so they may do this.

 

[Agent Orange]

she may not be able to go back to school now

Click to shrink...

She's almost a millennia old and she's still in high school? She enrolled back when she was still a teenager!

 

[Zig]

It shouldn't.

But then, given the way Melmoth's invulnerability is supposed to work, he shouldn't have even been able to do that in first place. Of course Mr Zoat likes to nerf anything that's not an Orange Power Ring, which he massively buff's instead, so I really guess we should have expected it.




Mr Zoat Dues Ex Machinaed a lot of the ending and fell into the "these characters don't change at all" trap after having Grayven and Artemis spend thousands of years in the future.

Click to shrink...

Was "thousands" confirmed anywhere? Cuz the impression I got was "hundreds" but it could easily be anywhere between a hundred and millions.

 

[webxro]

Renegade did have sex with both Koriand'r and Komand'r after he rescued them, so I think he meant this and not this thing with Artemis.

Don't know if he was planning this Sheeda thing back then, but he and Artemis didn't have sex and the others were probably looking at her since he did date Jade, who is Artemis' sister.

Click to shrink...

Yea but people will now believe something happened between Artemis and him.

 

[Darko]

Yea but people will now believe something happened between Artemis and him.

Click to shrink...

If she tells them that she kissed him then yes, but otherwise they may not.

 

[DrThoth]

He did assimilate Klarion during the Excavation episode if I remember correctly.

He also assimilated Savage and Ras to deal with their immortality.

He has been reading what they write, as he's made mentions of things like a place Savage once passed by, and how he lied about being a certain historical figure.

The only one I think he assimilated after Darkseid gave him a piece of the AL Equation was Klarion, and that was because he wanted the knowledge he had and may have been worried that he can somehow become powerful again.

Click to shrink...

Those specific Savage things you quoted were from when he actually absorbed Savage and R'as into the ring, I believe, back when he far more blasé about assimilation (right before his meeting with Darkseid which changed his worldview somewhat). But yes, since then he's had them all transcribing things, so I'm a bit surprised he hasn't noted any link between Klarion and the Sheeda.

Actually that reminds me, has Renegade done anything about Construct-Nabu's situation? He expressed some regret even back before his Anti-Life exposure, and he's made amends with his other non-Light constructs. There are of course practical concerns with Nabu that Sportsmaster and Bane don't have, but I think it merits a discussion with Giovanni and others (not to mention that at least Zatara really should have some moral qualms about what he's doing). I wouldn't mind seeing more of the forces of Order actually doing something; maybe Shazam can finally show up.

 

[Darko]

But yes, since then he's had them all transcribing things, so I'm a bit surprised he hasn't noted any link between Klarion and the Sheeda.

Click to shrink...

He may already know about that.

A couple of the less-mutated ones look a little like Klarion, but I suppose that's a fairly generic look.

Click to shrink...

If he doesn't it may be because he just had Klarion write down his magical knowledge and didn't care about his life.

Savage and Ras have knowledge of various historical events and how they may have really happened, because they lived when it happened, so that's why he's having them write down their life stories.

Actually that reminds me, has Renegade done anything about Construct-Nabu's situation? He expressed some regret even back before his Anti-Life exposure, and he's made amends with his other non-Light constructs. There are of course practical concerns with Nabu that Sportsmaster and Bane don't have, but I think it merits a discussion with Giovanni and others (not to mention that at least Zatara really should have some moral qualms about what he's doing). I wouldn't mind seeing more of the forces of Order actually doing something; maybe Shazam can finally show up.

Click to shrink...

Good point.

The forces of Order may not be doing much because Nabu is technically still doing his job of maintaining order and fighting chaos, even if he is enslaved.

This is just speculation however.

 

[iamnuff]

New Gods stop aging at thirty, and Artemis was a teenager at the start of this arc, so if they've been away for years of personal time she's going to look like an adult.

Click to shrink...

Pretty sure New Gods stop ageing at whatever they think their prime is, and Grayven keeps saying 30 because he's used to being a 30 year old man.

If Artemis still thinks of herself as a teenager, she might still look like one.
If she'd stayed on earth and watched her (non-godly) friends age, she'd probably have aged with them.

Plus, I mean... youth is often an aspect of maiden goddesses like Artemis.
Heh.

No, seriously though, she probably looks like whatever she expects to look like, and since she didn't watch her friends and family all grow older...

Though, how long to sheeda live? Do they visibly age?
It'd be interesting if Grayven said something like "I don't know how many years it was, but I went through four high priests. Sure, one of them got shot and I had to execute another, but the last two lived long enough to grow old and die, so..."

I kinda want to know how Artemis spoke to her Sheeda minions. We know how Grayven do, but the way she wouldn't meet anyone's eyes before she left was a little...
Did they worship her? Did she execute people for treason? Did she have friends amongst them? How did she end up as the head of their alliance?

What did she go through when Grayven wasn't around?

... how did he get from 'centuries of offscreen conquest and civilisation building' to 'thirteen years'?! Does that mean that Artemis is a very young looking thirty-year-old? If Grayven isn't nearing his thousandth birthday any more does that mean that Luna is cradle-robbing once more?

Click to shrink...

Her starting age when dumped into Sheeda-world + the first 13 years spent in sheeda-world = 30, the point at which she'd stop ageing.
So she would have 13 years of being changed by this world, but Grayven would have zero, because he was already 30 to start with.
Is how I read it, anyway.

Maybe there was another 500 or 5000 years after that, but that time wouldn't matter because they'd be thirty, and their experiences won't shape them nearly as much.

The point Grayven was making, I believe, was that Artemis should have spent nearly as long in sheeda-land as she did in her own time, (before new god ageing stopped and locked her into her present state forever) so her personal identity should be as much 'Conquering queen of the sheeda' as it is is 'Gothamite vigilante'

But.. for some reason she still wants to go home, and doesn't seem to have built a family or a network of friends here, even though she's been here for so long.

 

[Darko]

But.. for some reason she still wants to go home, and doesn't seem to have built a family or a network of friends here, even though she's been here for so long.

Click to shrink...

She was most likely thinking about her family and friends back in her own time and there was also a war going on at the time so she may have found it difficult to form bonds with the Sheeda while she was busy fighting.

She was conflicted in this chapter, but she may have been hoping for the chance to go back to her time that she decided to leave the future.

 

[iamnuff]

She was most likely thinking about her family and friends back in her own time and there was also a war going on at the time so she may have found it difficult to form bonds with the Sheeda while she was busy fighting.

She was conflicted in this chapter, but she may have been hoping for the chance to go back to her time that she decided to leave the future.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, but 17 years of her old friends and family vs 100+ years of new friends or family.
She's lived in this world for longer than she lived on modern-day-earth.

Even if Grayven is right and only the first 13 years on Sheeda-earth effected her development, that's still 17-vs-13.
It's close, it's real close.

Maybe she just never grew attached to the sheeda because she chose to view them as 'not real people' or something?

 

[Darko]

Maybe she just never grew attached to the sheeda because she chose to view them as 'not real people' or something?

Click to shrink...

More likely she wanted to go home so much that she avoided trying to make intimate connections with them.