With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Valint · Nov 22, 2020

Radix said:
I mean it was a decision that was pretty bad. They allowed someone guilty of mass murder and terrorism to walk free. I don't think there is anything wrong with exposing them for doing that. The consequences of that is on them. It isn't like he harassed them into doing or even attempted to try and get them to commit suicide.

The problem is that it makes fuck-all sense. That plotline requires actively turning off any portion of your brain that understands how government actually works.

The YJ version of diplomatic immunity was just pants-on-head stupid that could maybe be turned into something that kind of makes sense if you squint and just fiat a bunch of shit in the background that isn't in the story, but at least isn't said not to be the truth.

The WTR version turns the stupid up to 11.

I'm not really a fan of "this legal thing that was dumbed down in the comics so ten-year-olds could understand it is dumb" fanfic nitpicks, since... sure? it's like nitpicking a courtroom/hospital drama for not getting the legal/medical details right. This plot point basically looked at the dumbed-down version and said "Hold my beer, we can make it even stupider."

It's better to just let this plot point die unremembered.

Flightless Man · Nov 22, 2020

Radix said:
The Avatar thing is mainly a Morrison thing to explain the singular evil Darkseid. But the main point is that there is more than one Darkseid in the multiverse.

As for Darkseid's intentions for Earth, we only think he has no intentions for it. But in many continuities it grows to be a central part of his plans, even in Young Justice. Even if we go with an interpretation where he hasn't been colluding with Savage for centuries, Earth has still been brought to his attention in both Paragon and Renegade timelines. But I think there is more going on with him than Renegade realizes. I expect he has intentions that Renegade doesn't even suspect. After all he is basically uplifting the Earth, which is something Darkseid wants for his future armies once he gains the ALE.

As for the timeline I think there is definitely room for more story without adding any more out of context. There is still plenty from the politics of Earthly mythologies, the various lantern corps, and space politics without adding anything new.
.

Ok good one darkside was really weird for me.

Yeah he has shown interest in both worlds. It will probably be kind of like a reverse of sheeda. One will do army invading earth, one will invade apokalypse. The whole does DArkside consider him a son or not thing. Renegade hasn't failed so until he does and brings shame to the name he is.

Yeah i was worried but after a few weeks of everyone helping my memory basically double the plots i remembered, are still in play. Like i said i can easily see 3 years of paragon story without resorting to "filler". I was wrong everyone proved it and i couldn't be happier. Oh and good catch on divine politics. its also a thread in play i forgot.

Darko · Nov 22, 2020

Flightless Man said:
I agree Paul will try to not let it happen. Thats why i was saying Lex and the Light already know the basics of galactic expansion rules. Its easy for them to be a nicer version of the Reach and still be evil. If humans colonize a dozen uninhabited worlds and establish an inter stellar prescence, 2 GL's will lose against earth. If it turns into a war, the guardians know earth will be a hard win so likely do a vega deal. I see our sector being blocked off way more likely then only earth.

The GLC does not have the power it once did. they won't be able to make a decision on Humans with discussing it with Dox and Paul/OL Corp. They were already willing in story to write off our sector, if done smart Lex could arrange for human domination of the sector. If Gl's move against humans without talking, it would basically begin the war of the light.

Thank you, for sharing.
Ok so we have a weaker darkside for Paragon, I didn't really understand the avatar thing.
Morganna i also forgot so thank you.
Yeah each nation's fast track advancing fits in with the elction. good catch.

Meta Human Trafficking and Warworld are in YJ canon but here will feel like filler, like how mangha khan did.

Yeah Multiverse is still an option. Krona again good catch thanks.

Vandal, Lex and other members who have been involved we do need to handle i was brief on saying so. But adding new ones now will feel weird. Adding a bunch of new threats at this point even if in DC, will feel like padding/filler. Especially any of the ones not in YJ canon.

I agree focusing on other Pauls is a good idea but i mainly meant Paragons story felt like it was nearing final few arcs. You reminded me of some and i can see about 3 years of Paragon Paul with what has been set up so it's not he final stretch like i feared. Feels like were in second half of grade 10(if story is someones school career from grade 1-12). Stories end and i dont want this to turn into bleach/naruto where it keeps going just to continue, so i am very glad more plots i forgot leaving natural story left.

Again, no, the Earth would most likely lose against the GLC.

The reason Vega happened was because there was someone with the power of an entire Corps that wanted that place.

If Earth really became like the Reach then Paul would try to stop them, since he basically considers the Reach to be a horrible civilization, so Earth would lose an extremely powerful Lantern.

He wants Earth to prosper, but he's not going to help its people get out of something like that without paying for it.

Ans even if they establish an interstellar presence, how would that stop the GLC from fighting them?

It really wouldn't, and the Lanterns can either just destroy the ships and leave the people stranded, or gather them up using their rings and bringing them back to Earth.

Both of these are things the GLC is capable of doing.

Radix said:
The Avatar thing is mainly a Morrison thing to explain the singular evil Darkseid. But the main point is that there is more than one Darkseid in the multiverse.

As for Darkseid's intentions for Earth, we only think he has no intentions for it. But in many continuities it grows to be a central part of his plans, even in Young Justice. Even if we go with an interpretation where he hasn't been colluding with Savage for centuries, Earth has still been brought to his attention in both Paragon and Renegade timelines. But I think there is more going on with him than Renegade realizes. I expect he has intentions that Renegade doesn't even suspect. After all he is basically uplifting the Earth, which is something Darkseid wants for his future armies once he gains the ALE.

What was Renegade's humiliation campaign? I don't remember that.

As for the explanation for the weak uplift, I don't find that a good answer. It is no different than Superman holding back his Kryptonian data. He doesn't need to do anything himself, but he doesn't seem to be doing that much to encourage people to do more. Not like Renegade is. Renegade is creating networks who do it. He has been fostering political will for change and advising political leaders. But Paragon seems to be very passive. I mean just compare the results of the Sheeda. Renegade timeline is pretty much secure. A free Britain and many dictators were overthrown in the third world. Not to mention his American influence. But in Paragon most of SA and Africa are basically defunct. And the American government seems to mostly just be staying still. But Paragon apparently has enough time to save his pet Chocolate company.

As for the timeline I think there is definitely room for more story without adding any more out of context. There is still plenty from the politics of Earthly mythologies, the various lantern corps, and space politics without adding anything new.

Paragon is the Justice League's pet attack dog who makes them slightly more effective, but he isn't uplifting the world like the Paul-ternates are doing.

The uplift explanation may not be something you like, but it is the truth.

Paragon wants other people to help the uplift so they don't depend on him for everything.

He already started a revolution аnd other people have been taking initiative to help the uplift.

Paul is also not the Leagues attack dog.

He's a very close ally of theirs who works for them because he views their function to the planet as important, you know they're basically the ones hat make sure the planet stays intact from things like supervillains, so he wants them to be more effective since if they aren't the planet would suffer for it.

He's also developed emotional attachments to several League members, like Diana and Alan, and he's very much interested in keeping those bonds.

He doesn't follow their orders blindly and does disobey them if he thinks what they are doing is wrong.

He follows their orders because he thinks they are logical, so disobeying them when they're logical is just pointless.

Radix said:
I mean it was a decision that was pretty bad. They allowed someone guilty of mass murder and terrorism to walk free. I don't think there is anything wrong with exposing them for doing that. The consequences of that is on them. It isn't like he harassed them into doing or even attempted to try and get them to commit suicide.

Valint said:
The problem is that it makes fuck-all sense. That plotline requires actively turning off any portion of your brain that understands how government actually works.

The YJ version of diplomatic immunity was just pants-on-head stupid that could maybe be turned into something that kind of makes sense if you squint and just fiat a bunch of shit in the background that isn't in the story, but at least isn't said not to be the truth.

The WTR version turns the stupid up to 11.

I'm not really a fan of "this legal thing that was dumbed down in the comics so ten-year-olds could understand it is dumb" fanfic nitpicks, since... sure? it's like nitpicking a courtroom/hospital drama for not getting the legal/medical details right. This plot point basically looked at the dumbed-down version and said "Hold my beer, we can make it even stupider."

It's better to just let this plot point die unremembered.

This whole diplomatic immunity thing from YJ received some pretty good explanations in Life Ore Death and A Subtle Knife.

The explanation, mind control.

Basically in LOD there are laws in place that prevent people who have been mind controlled from being punished for anything they have done during their time under control.

World leaders made laws like these so they wouldn't be punished if they were mind controlled, and it makes sense that people would make laws like these in a universe where mind control is a thing.

Vertigo used these laws to be let go.

In A Subtle Knife I think he actually had Ivy use some of her pheromones on him so they would release him after they found them.

As for why they mentioned the diplomatic immunity thing, well news media does tend to try and dramatise some things for a good story, even if it isn't the truth.

And him telling Wally he was let go because of immunity could be a way to mock him because he's protecting the laws that allow men like Vertigo to walk free.

It would be similar to when Dr Doom mocked Superman for his inability to arrest him in his own country because he tries to uphold the law.

Both of these are logical explanations for why Vertigo was let go and don't portray the judges as idiots.

Then again seeing as the show was inspired by comics it may be possible, and it wouldn't be the stupidest thing that has happened.

Hell the Light could have also arranged for him to be released, either by threatening, blackmailing or mind controlling the judges.

It's something they would do.

Though world governments have let go of people that are much, much worse than Vertigo before in the past.

Mr Zoat · Nov 22, 2020

6 246 937.M41

I set the Shark Assault Boat down on an open field on -ironically- the Imperial agri-world of Gravalax, then open the hangar doors before releasing it from my grip. It's on the border between Imperial space and Tau space, and a mere six years ago might have undergone a change in overseer but for the efforts of the local genestealer cult. There are still… Some.. 'xenoists' amongst the local population, but after the tau trade mission pulled out there was a bit of a good old Imperial purge.

There's a rumble a moment later, and a convoy of Imperial civilian vehicles drive down the embarkation ramps. At my suggestion Fio'o Dy'aketh Shi'ra agreed to release a few police stations' worth of Imperial agitators along with the people who took part in the raid on the cultist temple, more to get them off the planet than anything else. They don't know anything significant about tau operations and now they can agitate somewhere else.

Cain and Jurgen are holding back, making sure that everyone is able to evacuate safely. Or as I'm sure Cain will one day note in his memoirs, allowing them to draw any incoming fire. I fly into the interior of the dropship and land close by.

"I thought that Gravalax would have a certain ironic appeal. And you can be certain of a friendly welcome."

"How did we get here?"

"I carried the Shark."

"Yes, I.. saw that. But even under favourable conditions, the journey to Gravalax should have taken weeks."

I know the source of his unease. The main weakness of the tau fleet is their crap FTL. Small vessels can't use warp travel at all, and are stuck being towed by larger vessels. Larger vessels have ether drives rather than the more common warp drives which the Imperial Navy use, and as such are far slower than their counterparts. Far safer, particularly given that the tau haven't been able to reverse engineer Geller fields and don't have navigators or astropaths, but strategically tau fleets move at a crawl.

Demiurg have true warp travel, but even if the Brotherhoods were willing to let their Ancestor Lords work on tau ships it's not clear if their spirit ancestors would be willing to guide other species through the warp. Nicassar ships use even slower FTL than the tau do. Heck, the main reason they're part of the Tau Empire is so they can get lifts from tau ships with the spare towing capacity.

My being able to get us here this quickly is a big deal, and even a career infantryman like Commissar Cain knows it.

"Oh, don't worry. The tau are still stuck warp diving. But I'm not. My archeotech includes the capacity for non-warp faster than light travel."

He looks unconvinced.

"That.. sounds unlikely."

"The alternatives are that the tau have super-fast warp travel but have been choosing not to use it until now, or there's a Webway portal here." I shrug. "Feel free to take a look, but you won't find one."

"And who else possesses this capacity?"

"The necrontyr inertialess drive can do something similar. And whoever made my system-" Which I'm not referring to as a ring, because that tells them what to aim at. "-probably still has the capacity."

Let's see. I have a picture of Amberley Vale's face from recordings taken during the Gravalax Incident. If I-.

"I was surprised to see the Cathedral still standing." Cain's regarding me curiously. "I would have thought that it would be the first place the tau destroyed in the name of the Greater Good."

"That's not how the Greater Good works. The tau don't really… Understand human religiosity, but they know that doing anything that direct would kick off an uprising. So instead they're getting priests in who can… Moderate their message a little." I shake my head. "I just about convinced them that resurrecting pre-Imperium religions wasn't the way to go, though I suspect that some bright Por is going to try it somewhere."

"You have records on pre-Imperium human culture? How?"

"Commissar, I was born in nine hundred and eighty three, M two." His eyebrows go up slightly, and his expression is somewhat sceptical. "I don't have records, I just remember them."

I generate a construct syringe and transmute a vacutainer, then stick it into my left arm to draw a sample of my blood. Then I close the wound, dismiss the syringe and hand him the vial.

"I'm probably genetically different to humans in this era to an appreciable degree. I'm sure you can find someone who can investigate."

He takes it with a mild frown and slides it into one of his coat's pockets.

"The… Statue."

"I'm sorry?"

"The statue, outside of the cathedral. It was new."

"Well, yes. Saint Arballast was most famous for burning thousands of unarmed alien prisoners to death. That wouldn't really work for a cathedral on a tau-held world, would it?"

"I suppose not. But I don't remember hearing of a saint called 'Malcador'. Did the tau invent him?"

"You don't know-? Really? You haven't heard of Malcador the Sigillite?"

"I can't say that I have. The Imperium has a great many saints."

"Yes, I know that, but… During the Great Crusade, once the Primarchs were rediscovered and the early Imperium more or less up and running, the Emperor decided to take a step back to focus on the next stage of his plan. He made Horus Warmaster and put him in overall command of the Crusade's military. Malcador the Sigillite was the man he put in charge of the Imperium's civilian government, having been the Emperor's chief aide since the Unification Wars at least."

"He died just after the Siege of Terra. Traitor legionaries everywhere but, perhaps surprisingly, not that many daemons. Emperor had to stay plugged into the Golden Throne in order to hold them back, but as long as he did any daemon that wanted to take part had to fly in with the traitor legions by ship. Then Horus drops his shields and the Emperor knows that he has to go after him personally. But he can't leave without Earth being overrun by daemons. So, Malcador steps forward and offers to take over while the Emperor goes after Horus. I'm sure you remember the next bit."

He nods slowly.

"Malcador lived just long enough to see Rogal Dorn bring the Emperor's dying body back to the throne room, then turned to ash because mortal men just can't take that sort of psychic pressure. For me, he embodies selfless service to the greater good. Small 'G' greater good."

"I see. It's… Surprising that such a pivotal figure in Imperial history isn't better known."

"He got a tank named after him. It's popular with the Kriegers. Bigger than a Leman Russ, smaller than a Baneblade. But yes, it is." I shake my head. "It's amazing what Imperial agencies delete from the historical record."

I shrug and take a step back.

"Well, you're free to go. Thank you for your help with the cult. Ah, and if you hear anything about any other chaos cults, do let someone know. The tau… Aren't good at finding chaos cults, and… I'm sure that the Imperium would prefer to have untainted worlds to reconquer."

"That's true, but I don't think we have the same definition of 'untainted'."

"Probably not." I shrug. "Good day, Commissar."

Darko · Nov 22, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
or there's a web way portal here."

'Webway'

Mr Zoat said:
is their crap ftl.

Mr Zoat said:
use even slower ftl than the tau do

maybe 'FTL'

Mr Zoat said:
"I see. It's… Surprising that such a pivotal figure in Imperial history isn't better known."

The Inquisition I'm betting, because it goes against their canon.

Prince Charon · Nov 22, 2020

Cherico said:
At some point you cant put your head in the sand any more this is one of those moments.

I would have expected the Split, when the children were on one Earth (and a lot of babies died) and the adults on another, to be the point when you can't put your head in the sand any more, but that was more than a year ago, in-story, and they hadn't woken up. Boss Smiley had too much of a hold on them, I guess.

DrThoth · Nov 22, 2020

I'd be interested in seeing 40K Paul meeting some Eldar, ideally some who he can actually cooperate with.

The next segments are called 'Gothamghast', probably alluding to the Gormenghast series? (which I haven't read, so I'm hoping it's more symbolic than anything).

I look forward to seeing how the world changes or doesn't change post-Sheeda; it does make me hope a second confrontation with Boss Smiley is in the works; the Light really haven't done anything for a while (which makes sense given Paragon's around and half their initial line-up has been eradicated, but still).

Darko · Nov 22, 2020

Prince Charon said:
I would have expected the Split, when the children were on one Earth (and a lot of babies died) and the adults on another, to be the point when you can't put your head in the sand any more, but that was more than a year ago, in-story, and they hadn't woken up. Boss Smiley had too much of a hold on them, I guess.

They did wake up after Roanoke, at least when it comes to magic.

They started to adopt magic and had closer relationships to Atlantis after it.

Prince Charon · Nov 22, 2020

Darko said:
They did wake up after Roanoke, at least when it comes to magic.

They started to adopt magic and had closer relationships to Atlantis after it.

Maybe, but they didn't wake up enough.

Darko · Nov 22, 2020

Prince Charon said:
Maybe, but they didn't wake up enough.

I did say that they at least woke up to one thing, that being magic.

Vaermina · Nov 22, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
I know the source of his unease. The main weakness of the tau fleet is their crap ftl. Small vessels can't use warp travel at all, and are stuck being towed by larger vessels. Larger vessels have ether drives rather than the more common warp drives which the Imperial Navy use, and as such are far slower than their counterparts. Far safer, particularly given that the tau haven't been able to reverse engineer Geller fields and don't have navigators or astropaths, but strategically tau fleets move at a crawl.

Ether Drives don't exist, they were just Tau propaganda.

It almost literally says that in the article you linked, so the mistake is doubly perplexing.

RichardWhereat · Nov 22, 2020

DrThoth said:
I'd be interested in seeing 40K Paul meeting some Eldar, ideally some who he can actually cooperate with.

Exodites? Or do you mean Eldrad the Farseer?

Chojin Patriarch · Nov 22, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
6 246 937.M41

I set the Shark Assault Boat down on an open field on -ironically- the Imperial agri-world of Gravalax, then open the hangar doors before releasing it from my grip. It's on the border between Imperial space and Tau space, and a mere six years ago might have undergone a change in overseer but for the efforts of the local genestealer cult. There are still… Some.. 'xenoists' amongst the local population, but after the tau trade mission pulled out there was a bit of a good old Imperial purge.

In other words, a friendly Imperial world Ciaphas Cain (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!) would recognise personally. No doubt to reassure him that P'aul hasn't pulled a fast one...

There's a rumble a moment later, and a convoy of Imperial civilian vehicles drive down the embarkation ramps. At my suggestion Fio'o Dy'aketh Shi'ra agreed to release a few police stations' worth of Imperial agitators along with the people who took part in the raid on the cultist temple, more to get them off the planet than anything else. They don't know anything significant about tau operations and now they can agitate somewhere else.

I can see it being an easy sell: Get rid of potential security risks and lessen the stress on a prison system probably already strained by the changeover to Tau rule...

Cain and Jurgen are holding back, making sure that everyone is able to evacuate safely. Or as I'm sure Cain will one day note in his memoirs, allowing them to draw any incoming fire. I fly into the interior of the dropship and land close by.

"I thought that Gravalax would have a certain ironic appeal. And you can be certain of a friendly welcome."

Indeed, a Hero's welcome. No doubt Ciaphas will enjoy it, at first. Hero worship does begin to wear thin after a while.

"How did we get here?"

"I carried the Shark."

"I can demonstrate, if you don't believe me."

"Yes, I.. saw that. But even under favourable conditions, the journey to Gravalax should have taken weeks."

I know the source of his unease. The main weakness of the tau fleet is their crap ftl. Small vessels can't use warp travel at all, and are stuck being towed by larger vessels. Larger vessels have ether drives rather than the more common warp drives which the Imperial Navy use, and as such are far slower than their counterparts. Far safer, particularly given that the tau haven't been able to reverse engineer Geller fields and don't have navigators or astropaths, but strategically tau fleets move at a crawl.

Given that the Geller fields stop the denizens of the Warp, including Deamons of Chaos and such-like, from interfering with the crew in transit, it's probably a good thing Tau drives don't take longer hops into the Immaterium.

Demiurg have true warp travel, but even if the Brotherhoods were willing to let their Ancestor Lords work on tau ships it's not clear if their spirit ancestors would be willing to guide other species through the warp. Nicassar ships use even slower ftl than the tau do. Heck, the main reason they're part of the Tau Empire is so they can get lifts from tau ships with the spare towing capacity.

My being able to get us here this quickly is a big deal, and even a career infantryman like Commissar Cain knows it.

Especially since it's possible for Imperial ships (and Ork, and Traitor Legions, and all the more conventional Warp-flight races) to take years, or even centuries in transit, only to arrive minutes after you left, or even sometime before. And yes, that is as much a nightmare for the bureaucracy as it sounds. There's a reason the Imperium uses such a complicated dating system.

"Oh, don't worry. The tau are still stuck warp diving. But I'm not. My archeotech includes the capacity for non-warp faster than light travel."

He looks unconvinced.

"That.. sounds unlikely."

Smart man, not believing what he's told until he's seen it for himself. And P'aul's obfuscating his powers a little, eh?

"The alternatives are that the tau have super-fast warp travel but have been choosing not to use it until now, or there's a web way portal here." I shrug. "Feel free to take a look, but you won't find one."

"And who else possesses this capacity?"

Not many. An knowledge of most of them would get an average human purged by the Inquisition.

"The necrontyr inertialess drive can do something similar. And whoever made my system-" Which I'm not referring to as a ring, because that tells them what to aim at. "-probably still has the capacity."

Let's see. I have a picture of Amberley Vale's face from recordings taken during the Gravalax Incident. If I-.

Making a call to get them a proper pickup by the locals? Sensible. I don't doubt he set them down within a day's drive of a decent-sized town, but it's a good idea for him not to go straight there...

"I was surprised to see the Cathedral still standing." Cain's regarding me curiously. "I would have thought that it would be the first place the tau destroyed in the name of the Greater Good."

"That's not how the Greater Good works. The tau don't really… Understand human religiosity, but they know that doing anything that direct would kick off an uprising. So instead they're getting priests in who can… Moderate their message a little." I shake my head. "I just about convinced them that resurrecting pre-Imperium religions wasn't the way to go, though I suspect that some bright Por is going to try it somewhere."

After all, if it makes them happy, why interfere overmuch? And a 'Por' is presumably a Water-caste bureaucrat rank or a junior Ethereal-Caste?

"You have records on pre-Imperium human culture? How?"

"Commissar, I was born in nine hundred and eighty three, M two." His eyebrows go up slightly, and his expression is somewhat sceptical. "I don't have records, I just remember them."

Not quite as impressive as the Emperor's 50,000+life-span (Having been born after a mass suicide-sacrifice ritual by an entire generation of Human psykers), but unless P'aul clarifies that he hasn't actually lived through the intervening 38,000 years, I don't think he'll believe that...

I generate a construct syringe and transmute a vacutainer, then stick it into my left arm to draw a sample of my blood. Then I close the wound, dismiss the syringe and hand him the vial.

"I'm probably genetically different to humans in this era to an appreciable degree. I'm sure you can find someone who can investigate."

...I foresee this coming back to bite him in the ass someday. While the ring would have dealt with any possible infection vectors, just the simple fact that he's handing over a direct link to him (via Sympathetic Psy-sorcery) will be trouble...

He takes it with a mild frown and slides it into one of his coat's pockets.

"The… Statue."

...No, He's not talking about OL's mile-high diamond accident. That would be a 'what the fuck' of Cyclopean proportions.

"I'm sorry?"

"The statue, outside of the cathedral. It was new."

No doubt some Imperial Saint deemed acceptable to the Tau's reworking of Imperial creed.

"Well, yes. Saint Arballast was most famous for burning thousands of unarmed alien prisoners to death. That wouldn't really work for a cathedral on a tau-held world, would it?"

"I suppose not. But I don't remember hearing of a saint called 'Malcador'. Did the tau invent him?"

...For reference, that's like not knowing who Jesus is. While not a direct relative of the Emperor (as far as anyone knows), he plays quite an important part of the Imperiums early days following the Reunification of Earth. Behold his resume!

"You don't know-? Really? You haven't heard of Malcador the Sigillite?"

"I can't say that I have. The Imperium has a great many saints."

Far too many, it seems. Especially from the Adepta Sororitas (aka the Sisters of Battle, power-armoured war-nuns.)

"Yes, I know that, but… During the Great Crusade, once the Primarchs were rediscovered and the early Imperium more or less up and running, the Emperor decided to take a step back to focus on the next stage of his plan. He made Horus Warmaster and put him in overall command of the Crusade's military. Malcador the Sigillite was the man he put in charge of the Imperium's civilian government, having been the Emperor's chief aide since the Unification Wars at least."

That plan being A: Creating a Human-controlled equivalent of the Eldar's Web-way - A Portal network criss-crossing the galaxy; and B: Finding a way to lessen the power of the Chaos Gods. Part of that plan being trying to eliminate all religion... You can imagine how pissed he'd be if or when he ever gets his ass off the throne.

"He died just after the Siege of Terra. Traitor legionaries everywhere but, perhaps surprisingly, not that many daemons. Emperor had to stay plugged into the Golden Throne in order to hold them back, but as long as he did any daemon that wanted to take part had to fly in with the traitor legions by ship. Then Horus drop's his shields and the Emperor knows that he has to go after him personally. But he can't leave without Earth being overrun by daemons. So, Malcador steps forward and offers to take over while the Emperor goes after Horus. I'm sure you remember the next bit."

No Imperial wouldn't know, especially someone as highly-placed as Ciaphas. In terms of significance, it's on par with Jesus' Crucifixion. While specific details might be edited for secrecy, like who the Emperor was fighting, or the powers backing Horus the Arch-Traitor, it's practically gospel.

He nods slowly.

"Malcador lived just long enough to see Rogal Dorn bring the Emperor's dying body back to the throne room, then turned to ash because mortal men just can't take that sort of psychic pressure. For me, he embodies selfless service to the greater good. Small 'G' greater good."

Fun fact: If Magnus the Red, Primarch of the Thousand Sons Legion, hadn't pissed the Emperor off by inadvertently messing up a critical experiment, the response driving him into traitorhood, Magnus would have been the one sitting on the Throne, acting as psychic navigation beacon and psychic defense system both.

"I see. It's… Surprising that such a pivotal figure in Imperial history isn't better known."

"He got a tank named after him. It's popular with the Kriegers. Bigger than a Leman Russ, smaller than a Baneblade. But yes, it is." I shake my head. "It's amazing what Imperial agencies delete from the historical record."

Like the existence of Chaos, to large parts of the population. If you aren't an Astartes, Inquisitorial agent, or up around the rank of Militarum General or Planetary Governor , you will not be allowed to learn of their existence. No wonder so many people fall into Chaos worship without realising it.

I shrug and take a step back.

"Well, you're free to go. Thank you for your help with the cult. Ah, and if you hear anything about any other chaos cults, do let someone know. The tau… Aren't good at finding chaos cults, and… I'm sure that the Imperium would prefer to have untainted worlds to reconquer."

And that's not an understatement. Inquisitors have had entire worlds burned clean to remove the taint of Chaos. Admittedly, it's intended as a last resort after an uprising or invasion, but they can do it freely. They'll have quite some explaining to do afterwards, mind.

"That's true, but I don't think we have the same definition of 'untainted'."

"Probably not." I shrug. "Good day, Commissar."

For example: The human populations of Tau-conquered worlds would be considered irrevocably tainted as traitors for not dying to the last man.

And with that, the episode draws to a close. Marking an end to the Sheeda as a threat... For now. Now, OL can turn his full attention to the Reach. And hopefully wash his hands of Earth's problems for a little while.

Now: Your guesses for what alternate Paul we'll meet in the pre-credits sequence of this coming episode?

Chaoswind · Nov 22, 2020

Darko said:
They did wake up after Roanoke, at least when it comes to magic.

They started to adopt magic and had closer relationships to Atlantis after it.

It's different, the split went on for a couple of days, the shedda attack went on for weeks. One killed hundreds of thousands babies/toddlers/children with the odd adult due to violence over the disappearance; the harvest by the Shedda killed several millions.

Darko · Nov 22, 2020

Chaoswind said:
It's different, the split went on for a couple of days, the shedda attack went on for weeks. One killed hundreds of thousands babies/toddlers/children with the odd adult due to violence over the disappearance; the harvest by the Shedda killed several millions.

Did we ever get a number of how many people the Sheeda killed during this Harrowing, I can't remember?

We know they apparently attacked rural and more primitive areas, and that South American and African countries collapsed, but that could technically mean that they harvested as many people that died during Roanoke incident, but the collapse was due to people freaking out and all hell breaking loose.

Vaermina · Nov 22, 2020

DrThoth said:
I'd be interested in seeing 40K Paul meeting some Eldar, ideally some who he can actually cooperate with.

Those two things should be mutually exclusive given Paul's circumstances.

Darko · Nov 22, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
Not quite as impressive as the Emperor's 100,000+life-span (Having been born after a mass suicide-sacrifice ritual by an entire generation of Human psykers), but unless P'aul clarifies that he hasn't actually lived through the intervening 38,000 years, I don't think he'll believe that...

The Emperor is actually 38.000 thousand, well 48.000 if you count his time on that golden toilet, years old, and not 100.000 years old.

Chojin Patriarch said:
That plan being A: Creating a Human-controlled equivalent of the Eldar's Web-way - A Portal network criss-crossing the galaxy; and B: Finding a way to lessen the power of the Chaos Gods. Part of that plan being trying to eliminate all religion... You can imagine how pissed he'd be if or when he ever gets his ass off the throne.

We do have TTS so we have some idea of how that would go.

Chojin Patriarch said:
And with that, the episode draws to a close. Marking an end to the Sheeda as a threat... For now. Now, OL can turn his full attention to the Reach. And hopefully wash his hands of Earth's problems for a little while

On the TV Tropes page it says that Paul will meet the Reach ambassador when he comes back to Earth sometime in the future and use him as target practice.

If this is true then it's possible that the paragon chapters will be focused on his space adventures from now on, at least for a long while.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Now: Your guesses for what alternate Paul we'll meet in the pre-credits sequence of this coming episode?

DrThoth mentioned the Gormenghast series so maybe something with that, but it will probably be centered in Gotham city.

This could be another new version of the SI.

Hell it may not even be a version of Paul, but of Jade.

Maybe that Batwoman Jade, or the Green Lantern one, since Alan is apparently Gotham's superhero.

NightmareWarden · Nov 22, 2020

So! The next generation of Earth heroes got a taste of an invasion. I'm mostly focusing on team Young Justice (it isn't a terrible name!) affiliates, but international heroes could make a name for themselves too. I think one or more individuals will have abilities ill-suited for the upcoming reconstruction, so they will reach out to Orange Lantern Paul to learn about the Dark Stars (and the Corps, I suppose). They'd want to gather information on potential threats out in the galaxy and/or help beings that were under siege like Earth was.

Thoughts? Will Paragon-Paul drop any new recruits off the next time he leaves Earth?

Chojin Patriarch · Nov 22, 2020

Darko said:
The Emperor is actually 38.000 thousand, well 48.000 if you count his time on that golden toilet, years old, and not 100.000 years old.

Having now checked the Lexicanum page, I stand corrected. 50,000 years (to round off) is still a fair span for any being... Oddly, I got the impression he was older because of TTS' 'History of the Emperor (In his own words)' episode...

Probably because of the caveman drawings.

Darko · Nov 22, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
Having now checked the Lexicanum page, I stand corrected. 50,000 years (to round off) is still a fair span for any being... Oddly, I got the impression he was older because of TTS' 'History of the Emperor (In his own words)' episode... Probably because of the caveman drawings.

To be fair he did spend time in the Warp, where time is weird, so you may be somewhat right that he's over 100.000 years old.

RichardWhereat · Nov 22, 2020

I do wish people would use a sensible delimiter like a comma.

Tanor · Nov 22, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
nine hundred and eighty three

You are missing one thousand there unless you are really over millennium old.

Flightless Man · Nov 22, 2020

Darko said:
Again, no, the Earth would most likely lose against the GLC.

The reason Vega happened was because there was someone with the power of an entire Corps that wanted that place.

If Earth really became like the Reach then Paul would try to stop them, since he basically considers the Reach to be a horrible civilization, so Earth would lose an extremely powerful Lantern.

He wants Earth to prosper, but he's not going to help its people get out of something like that without paying for it.

Ans even if they establish an interstellar presence, how would that stop the GLC from fighting them?

It really wouldn't, and the Lanterns can either just destroy the ships and leave the people stranded, or gather them up using their rings and bringing them back to Earth.

Both of these are things the GLC is capable of doing.

I'm in a really bad mood because of some life drama over a funeral and i can't continue any discussions/arguements online right now wiithout letting my anger at something else takeover. I don't want you to think i'm ignoring you but i'm going to become mean if i dont take a few days off. We disagree and that is ok. neither of us is the writer, so who knows whos opinion/guesses are really right Zoat suprises us alot. If you really want to continue this, send me a PM and in a few days when im not ripping my hair out we can discuss it without cluttering here up anymore.

RichardWhereat · Nov 22, 2020

Tanor said:
You are missing one thousand there unless you are really over millennium old.

No, the way the Warhammer 40K dating system works is thus

001 M1 [1AD]
983 M2 [1983 AD]
983.0927 M2 [1983, September, 27th AD]
020 M3 [2020 AD]

M means Millennium. The organisation with the NAZI vampires.

Darko · Nov 22, 2020

Flightless Man said:
I'm in a really bad mood because of some life drama over a funeral and i can't continue any discussions/arguements online right now wiithout letting my anger at something else takeover. I don't want you to think i'm ignoring you but i'm going to become mean if i dont take a few days off. We disagree and that is ok. neither of us is the writer, so who knows whos opinion/guesses are really right Zoat suprises us alot. If you really want to continue this, send me a PM and in a few days when im not ripping my hair out we can discuss it without cluttering here up anymore.

My condolences for your loss.

Hope things are better for you in the near future.

RichardWhereat · Nov 22, 2020

Flightless Man said:
Zoat suprises us alot.

He never surprises me.. In the next chapter, Paul is going to create an interlude, for, like, the third time ever., and I'll reference this post when he does.

Maxx Crowley · Nov 22, 2020

Huh....not what I was expecting.

Mr Zoat · Nov 22, 2020

Darko said:
'Webway'
maybe 'FTL'

Thank you, corrected.

The Inquisition I'm betting, because it goes against their canon.

Bit awkward, given that he founded them.

Prince Charon said:
I would have expected the Split, when the children were on one Earth (and a lot of babies died) and the adults on another, to be the point when you can't put your head in the sand any more, but that was more than a year ago, in-story, and they hadn't woken up. Boss Smiley had too much of a hold on them, I guess.

Essentially, because it was a small group of supervillains and they were dealt with as quickly as they could have been dealt with. This lasted over a month and involved at least thousands of attackers.

DrThoth said:
I'd be interested in seeing 40K Paul meeting some Eldar, ideally some who he can actually cooperate with.

I realised something a few days ago. Given that the Old Ones created the eldar to fight in the War in Heaven, and that the Emperor was created at roughly the same time... Doesn't that mean that the human species is older than the elder?

The next segments are called 'Gothamghast', probably alluding to the Gormenghast series? (which I haven't read, so I'm hoping it's more symbolic than anything).

Pretty much. I got requests for a renegade Artemis point of view, so there you go.

Darko said:
Did we ever get a number of how many people the Sheeda killed during this Harrowing, I can't remember?

We know they apparently attacked rural and more primitive areas, and that South American and African countries collapsed, but that could technically mean that they harvested as many people that died during Roanoke incident, but the collapse was due to people freaking out and all hell breaking loose.

I'm avoiding giving hard figures. More than Roanoke.

Darko said:
On the TV Tropes page it says that Paul will meet the Reach ambassador when he comes back to Earth sometime in the future and use him as target practice.

I wouldn't rely on the TV Tropes pages being entirely accurate.

Ngamer11 · Nov 22, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
I wouldn't rely on the TV Tropes pages being entirely accurate.

It was more of a link to something you wrote on one of the older threads. It's possible that you've changed your mind since then.

Darko · Nov 22, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
Thank you, corrected.

Bit awkward, given that he founded them.

Essentially, because it was a small group of supervillains and they were dealt with as quickly as they could have been dealt with. This lasted over a month and involved at least thousands of attackers.

I realised something a few days ago. Given that the Old Ones created the eldar to fight in the War in Heaven, and that the Emperor was created at roughly the same time... Doesn't that mean that the human species is older than the elder?

Pretty much. I got requests for a renegade Artemis point of view, so there you go.

I'm avoiding giving hard figures. More than Roanoke.

I wouldn't rely on the TV Tropes pages being entirely accurate.

The War in Heaven happened millions of years ago in the 40k universe, like during the time of the dinosaurs if I remember correctly.

The Emperor is just 48.000 years old, so no humanity isn't older than the Eldar.

They weren't even around back then.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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