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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Coda said:
And from a modern European standpoint, most modern Democrats are at most only considered slightly left of conservative.
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Rule 8.

You brought modern politics into this discussion. Don't bring modern politics into this discussion. (It's rather irritating to be unable to explain how very wrong you are.)

Coda said:
No, I've accounted for that
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... and the hint that Zoat was giving you, that any discussion of politics more recent than 20 years ago is banned on QQ, went whooshing by.
 
Valiran said:
I think it would be more accurate to say that the sales are powered by a combination of fanboyism, brand loyalty, and quality storytelling. And that last one has been increasingly rare of late.
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Technically, it's the TV shows (animated and live) Toys (Big time) and most importantly, MOVIES (BIG, BIG time) that are generating all the cash.

Actual comic sales are in the friggin toilet. Which basically only the people who the big two have been screaming at (Marvel I know especially) to shut up (always about quality and continuity), move out of the parents basement (A Joey Q special) and stop pestering them about things that, to hear them talk, belong exclusively to kids. I know Marvel has famously insisted on a 7 year rule. That is, the audience should roll over every 7 years.

Meanwhile, in 2019, very, very few kids are EVER going to actually buy more then one comic that someone (Probably older brother or Dad) didn't get them into in the first place.

I would not be surprised to hear that Disney and Warner Bros are shutting down the comic part of DC and Marvel any day now.
 
Wing and Dagger (part 16)
  • Threadmarks
    • 21st January
    20:42 GMT

    "It's been less than a day."

    I smile at Ms Thal as the thanagarian part of the party files into the Vengeance of Kalmoran's briefing room, joining those of us who journeyed downside as well as Mr Cantrell and Ms Parker whose tour was rudely interrupted.

    "I am an innocent victim of circumstance." She glares. "This time."

    Mr Pul makes a gesture of affirmation. "Suspicious though it is, his claim has been corroborated by the surviving witnesses."

    Being a thanagarian briefing room, there aren't any seats. Instead, we're standing around a holopit as Mr Andar calls up a cut-away image of a Man-Hawk.

    "As Silver Scarab observed during his impromptu field investigation, Man-Hawks have Nth metal laced bones and enhanced synaptic Nth metal deposits. Our studies of their brains suggest -and as we've never been able to interrogate or fully test one, I stress suggest- that they also have enhanced senses, proprioception and reflexes. However, in addition to their lack of arms several parts of their brains which should be responsible for higher reasoning are atrophied or shrunk."

    Kara frowns. "Should be? Just because they use tools, that doesn't mean they're not sub-sophont."

    Mr Hol's gaze is steady as he regards the hologram. "Sir? Have we determined their point of origin?"

    "Oh come on, Mister Hol. I understand following the party line in public, but do you seriously believe that they're aliens?"

    Mr Cantrell nods. "Given the physical similarities, I had been wondering if they were some sort of evolutionary throwback. But that wouldn't explain them having fewer limbs."

    Ms Parker takes a step closer, her eyes slightly unfocused. The image clearly means something to her. Probably something other than a reference to Ancient Kahndaqi mythology.

    Mr Pul gestures, and the Man-Hawk image is shrunk and paired with that of a thanagarian. "Though their genetics appear to.. resist analysis, studying their bodies eventually revealed that several of the Man-Hawks we examined have signs of old injuries which matched those suffered by people on the missing persons list. Our initial supposition was that someone was performing biological experiments. However, now that Orange Lantern has confirmed that they were altered by magic-."

    "No, the stone detects magic. I can't tell you whether or not magic is the underlying cause."

    "But you could identify the same magic again?"

    "I could identify similar magic again. You'd need an actual practitioner to be sure."

    Well, an actual practitioner and some of Sephtian's analytical equipment, but a practitioner could be ninety-plus percent sure.

    Hector gestures at the holograms. "Why haven't you warned people about this? Or at the very least, put a garrison in your undercity?!"

    "My job is to investigate threats to the state. And until recently, the Man-Hawks were sufficiently few in number that they did not meet that definition."

    "The police-!"

    "The police patrol downside, but have suffered an increasing level of disappearances themselves." Breath hisses through Mr Hol's teeth in response to Mr Pul's statement. Those were his colleagues. "I will be clear: the recent increase in Man-Hawk numbers, their recent brazen activity, is anomalous. And I am dealing with it." A slight -and probably staged- ruffling of his wings. "But learning who is producing them is more important in the long term than killing the ones which presently exist. A single undetected individual could travel freely and spread this menace to all parts of the Empire. And that is not something I will allow."

    "You know, I'm.. pretty sure that Hyathis would-" The thanagarians present glare at me. "-lend you a few druids if you asked."

    Mr Pul shuts off the hologram. "And infect us with something else." He sweeps his left wing. "And even if she would help, we would never offer her what she would demand in return. And she would not believe it if we did."

    Lantern Dul glances at me, then returns her attention to Mr Pul. "It should be perfectly possible for the two of us to scan the entire Empire for these creatures in a matter of days."

    "You haven't had the pleasure of running into anti-detection wards yet, have you?" She returns her attention to me. "Oh, sure, we could do it, but forget days. If the one doing this is even vaguely competent we'd be looking at months for Thanagar alone. Assuming whoever's doing this felt a desperate need to stay in one place."

    "Sharon?"

    Mr Cantrell lays his right hand on Ms Parker's left shoulder as she continues to stare at the holopit.

    "Though it is true that Thasaro tests those who gives themselves to him,
    And true that they are made stronger by it,
    His joy is not in those who stand,
    But in those who fall."

    That's an odd.. phrasing. Ring, analyse rhyme structure of the original language.

    Original language is a now-extinct thanagarian language. Verse employed a traditional rhyme structure appropriate to the language's height.

    "To move closer to Thasaro by your own wing and will is to flee yourself,
    To move further into the mountain-storms by his side,
    And he will watch and laugh,
    At all those who fall."

    Our party's thanagarians are staring at her-.

    "Everyone understood that, rig-?"

    Mr Hol nods at me, while Mr Cantrell puts his right arm around Ms Parker's side in an attempt to reassure her in the face of something that is clearly disturbing her. Mr Pul looks at her curiously-. Oh, that's why Ambassador Klus was asking me about them. Given what's been happening on Earth recently, I suppose that it only makes sense that they'd be interested in trying to get some sort of superbeing on their side. It's a shame that none of their other religious practices survived into the present day.

    "Sharon Parker, do you recognise what has been done to them?"

    "Chay-ara." There's a slight.. shift in her posture. She's-. Taking into account the lack of muscular connections to her wings… That's thanagarian body language. "I think you should start calling me Chay-ara now. And yes, I remember them."

    "Chay-ara, what is it? You've never mentioned-."

    "It was either brain damage from the crash or I just repressed it really hard. But seeing them… These things were living memory in my time. The last hold-outs from the time of the Seven Devils." Her shoulders move as she tries to rustle her wings. "I can barely believe that they still exist. We were trying to exterminate them."

    "How are they created?"

    "I don't know exactly, but it isn't complicated. A few prayers and an Nth metal knife if that's what you're actually trying to do. Usually Thasaro's followers were trying not to change, just to make themselves stronger. But in the end, that happened to all of them. Thasaro laughs at mortals."

    Ms Thal gazes at her for a moment, taking in the alterations in her posture. "Do you know where they make them?"

    "I know some places. We destroyed as many as we could, but some of them were built as fortresses."

    Mr Pul looks mildly pleased. "Excellent news. Give us the co-ordinates and I'll assign ships at once."
     
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    • Mr Zoat said:
    "It's been less than a day."
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    "What can I say? I work fast."

    However, in addition their lack of arms several parts of their brains...
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    However, in addition to their lack of arms several parts of their brains...

    ...old injuries which matched those suffered people on the missing persons list.
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    ...old injuries which matched those suffered by people on the missing persons list.

    ..but a practitioner could be ninety plus percent sure.
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    The 'ninety plus' might read better with a hyphen in there, perhaps?

    "You haven't had the pleasure of running into anti-detection wards yet, have you?" She returns her attention to me. "Oh, sure, we could do it, but forget days. If the one doing this is even vaguely competent we'd be looking at months for Thanagar alone. Assuming whoever's doing this felt a desperate need to stay in one place."
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    Ah, rookies...

    Original language is a now-extinct thanagarian language. Verse employed a traditional rhyme structure appropriate to the language's height.
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    I'm guessing it sounds like Latin or the like to the thanagarians present, some long-dead and barely recognisable language?

    Our party's thanagarians are staring at her-.
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    Someone speaking in tongues long dead? Yeah, I'd be worrying too.

    That's thanagarian body language. "I think you should start calling me Chay-ara now. And yes, I remember them."
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    ...Concerning.

    A few prayer and an Nth metal knife if that's what you're actually trying to do.
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    A few prayers and an Nth metal knife if that's what you're actually trying to do.
    Mr Pul looks mildly pleased. "Excellent news. Give us the co-ordinates and I'll assign ships at once."
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    Assuming they're still there? It's been several thousand years and quite a few upheavals since. What are the chances any of those places remain, even as ruins? Guess we'll see soon.
     
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    Chojin Patriarch said:
    However, in addition their lack of arms several parts of their brains...
    However, in addition to their lack of arms several parts of their brains...
    ...old injuries which matched those suffered people on the missing persons list.
    ...old injuries which matched those suffered by people on the missing persons list.
    ..but a practitioner could be ninety plus percent sure.
    The 'ninety plus' might read better with a hyphen in there, perhaps?
    A few prayer and an Nth metal knife if that's what you're actually trying to do.
    A few prayers and an Nth metal knife if that's what you're actually trying to do.
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    Thank you, corrected.
     
    Vaermina said:
    If that were true no new comic brands would ever sell.

    And yet they do.
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    Because curious high school students and college students, as well as adults interested in comics in general buy them - especially now that they are available digitally. Fan fiction like this one serves to get a certain large demographic into them, to see what social media is talking about. The audience rolls over - just not necessarily into the groups comics think they do. Which is why adult and teen - focused comics such as Hellblazer are popular and why there are so many comic alternatives specifically focused on the rebellious teen demographic. Quality might not matter for sales numbers. A lot of teen boys get really dumb for a bit at that age.
     
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    Earlier in the episode, Sharon told Paul that Hawkman and Hawkwoman theorize that her thanagarian past life either came from the past, the future, or an alternate universe. I think we can safely assume we can rule out the future. This is unless the Seven Devils end up conquering Thanagar in the future, and she's from a time after they beat them back.
     
    Just assigning ships might not work - especially if she's from a different universe with a different Thanagar. Also, new places might have been created.
     
    Ngamer11 said:
    Earlier in the episode, Sharon told Paul that Hawkman and Hawkwoman theorize that her thanagarian past life either came from the past, the future, or an alternate universe. I think we can safely assume we can rule out the future. This is unless the Seven Devils end up conquering Thanagar in the future, and she's from a time after they beat them back.
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    Now, now, they could have been democratically elected! :)

    They could have had really snappy slogans like "Why settle for the lesser evil?" or "Vote for us, we know where you live."
     
    Huh. So, I wonder if this means that the Thanagarian trinity is going to be around. Shayera Hol is supposed to be the descendant of their chosen one...

    Anyhoo, Thasaro's an asshole. If Onimar Synn is Pride, Thasaro's probably Wrath. He was literally created as a divine challenge for the mortals of Thanagar to overcome. Then he fell to the hells and started murdering gods. It was a bad scene. I am unsurprised he likes to screw with mortals in this manner.
     
    Wing and Dagger (supplementary, Renegade Option)
  • Threadmarks
    • 21st January
    21:06 GMT -5

    "…next guest doesn't need any introduction-"

    But you're going to introduce-.

    "-but I'll introduce him anyway."

    Hah! I actually smile as Jack Ryder mugs for the audience. The stands are packed with a cross-section of America and a few of my family. Lynne and Hybrid-lad-whose-name-I-can't-think are here so they can write an essay on it for their civics classes. Better this than one of those idiotically jingoistic 'explain-how-America-is-the-best-country-in-the-world' things. I invited Scott and Barda, but they felt that showing me support would risk the League's apolitical stance during national elections.

    Well. Scott did. I somehow doubt that Barda would have done anything to support my position.

    "From the Planet of Ultimate Tyranny to the Land of the Free: show a warm welcome for Grayven!"

    I stroll onto the stage as the-. Hah! As a couple of technicians wheel what looks suspiciously like a Throne of Doom onto the stage next to the host. I did warn them that I'd flatten their regular guest chairs, but I'm surprised that they went to this sort of length. I wave to the audience as they applaud, then wait until the crew have the chair positioned to their liking and give them a polite nod in thanks before sitting down upon it.

    Not exactly comfortable, but I suppose that it'll do.

    "Grayven, thank you for coming on."

    "Not a problem, Jack. Glad to be here."

    "We've got a lot to talk about this evening, but before we start, I.. ah… I've got to do another one of these tomorrow night, so I can't really afford to get shipped off to the other side of the universe..?"

    "Oh, don't worry." I shake my head as the audience titters. "Tricks like that lose their impact if you keep repeating yourself."

    "Well… Okay then." He leans back. "I guess I'll look forward to whatever you've got planned?"

    I pantomime an expression of complete innocence, and get a small laugh from the crowd.

    "So as I'm sure that you've noticed, we've got an election coming up. And as everyone knows, you're pretty tight with the incumbent."

    "I've…" I nod. "Worked productively with President Horne on a few issues. Speaking as an Apokoliptian, I find this whole… Four to eight years thing a bit strange."

    "Oh, come on. You saved the man's life, he gave you a Presidential Medal of Freedom, and-."

    "With distinction." I point to the ribbon.

    "And you've basically become Secretary of State for Metahumans."

    "That's.. overstating things somewhat. Yes, I was consulted on policy, as were a number of other specialists. And I've participated in a number of missions, some under the auspices of the Department of Metahuman Affairs. But I'm just an agent, certainly not a Secretary of State."

    He frowns. "Are you.. backing away from President Horne?"

    "No, it's…" I sigh. "I like Jon, but when you get right down to it… I'm a foreign citizen. More to the point, I'm a foreign citizen of a place that's hostile to the United States, even though I.. obviously disagree with that policy. I feel-. I don't think it's appropriate for me to have… Undue influence on your domestic politics. I have a good working and personal relationship with President Horne, I like to think that together we've done a lot of good for the country, and for the Earth. But if the American people choose to elect someone else, whether it be Senator Bishop or a.. third party candidate, I would endeavour to form a similar relationship with them. Ultimately, it's not about-."

    "Senator Bishop?"

    I blink. "The Repub-?"

    "I think you mean Senator Knight."

    "Oh…" I wave my right hand in his direction. "Sorry, yes, that's his.. name, isn't it?" I shrug in mock embarrassment. "Sorry, I was.. playing chess with my son earlier today-" And I was, too. "-and I-. Yeah."

    "Right…"

    Okay, it was a clumsy jab, but even if it doesn't make Knight look silly it at least makes me look a little more human.

    "Ah… Sorry, as I was saying. It's not about personality, it's about the task, the.. job of making American laws relating to metahumans a little more sensible. With the passage of the Destructive Persons Act, the lion's share of the job is done. Implementation does not require constant presidential involvement. It might actually be detrimental for it to be a partisan issue."

    "So the President's leaving you out in the cold?"

    "The President has a country to govern. And as much as I admire his patience in talking people into putting his legislation into practice sensibly, it's not something with which I can really help. And… There's probably a limit to how much help is really appropriate. He.. knows where I am if he needs me, and that I'm happy to butt out when he doesn't."

    "Okay, so, this new federal agency is going to train and regulate superheroes. W-?"

    "Not-. Sort of. It trains metahuman agents. In a.. few years, they might be training magic using agents. Superheroes-. I'm a superhero, so this isn't intended as a slight against people who risk life and limb for the greater good. That whole.. go get 'em attitude is one of the things I find most fascinating about this country. But… There's a reason why police forces exist. Top calibre superheroes like members of the Justice League are.. not exactly the rule. Information sharing is generally poor quality, training is patchy and that's not even getting into the lack of accountability-. A lot of the time there really isn't a difference between a masked vigilante and the street thugs they claim to be fighting. I've seen the figures on assaults and… In some cases murders."

    "Little bit of hypocrisy sneaking in there, huh?"

    "Probably. But I wouldn't have done that to someone the conventional authorities could handle. Political recognition of that fact is why I was pardoned. After the second Belle Reve breakout I didn't kill anyone because I knew that the situation could be brought back under control. And in any case, there wasn't any doubt about Klarion's guilt. A lot of the people that get targeted by vigilante campaigns haven't.. done much, if anything. Certainly nothing which justifies hospitalising them with life-changing injuries. America's security services are required by law to behave and investigate in certain ways, and I think that's a good thing. The fact that organisations like those, which are largely competent, incorrupt and law-abiding, can exist is a sign of the strength of America's social conventions and contract. Vigilantes… Where they can be said to have legitimacy, is when they are symptomatic of an underlying problem. If Gotham hadn't been hilariously corrupt and dysfunctional for years, no Batman."

    "And what about Superman?"

    "Organisations are designed to standardise processes, so that they can be performed reasonably well by as many different people as possible. What kind of police force could come up with procedures for the only kryptonian on the planet? And if they could, would limiting him to a single city really be the best use of his talents?" I shake my head. "With people that powerful, the sensible thing to do is give them a few restrictions, some oversight, and then let them get on with it."

    "I thought the President didn't want to conscript Superman."

    "The fact that Superman is a good guy, and has proven that in over a decade's good service to the nation and the planet, does not guarantee that the next person in his weight class will be as well. If people could be relied upon to treat one another well, we wouldn't need a police force. The balance President Horne has to strike is between supporting those who are fine acting on their own recognisance and guiding those who -though well-intentioned- aren't. And so far, the implementation appears to be going reasonably well. Not.. perfectly, but that's to be expected with any major piece of legislation and that's why he's still working on that aspect."

    "What do you think about how China handles it?"

    As if Jean didn't prepare me for questions about that.

    "It's excessively interfering. Their natural tendency to regiment anything related to security is causing far more harm than good. Conscripting every metahuman in the country is extremely wasteful, and I'm glad that they're starting to recognise that fact. On the other hand, it's unrealistic to expect that to produce the sort of independent superheroes the US has."

    "Their department of defense claims that they can field 'an army-group worth of superheroes'."

    "That's… Technically true, if you count someone whose power is to turn leaves from green to blue and who had two months' military training a decade ago as a 'superhero'. The Standing Committee on Metahuman Affairs has a lot of people on its books who have no business being there but who can be recalled to active service at five minutes' notice. It's a foolish system because the people involved would be no use to them."

    "Have you studied the Chinese system?"

    "Yes, and I've tried to help them modify the way they do things as well. At present, however, I consider it a good example of how not to do things in this country."
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Love whenever different variations of superhero systems are brought up. Kinda wish we got more of that stuff, but in majority of comics it's basically: anything not American is bad and tyrannical. Curious if you'll explore Chinese system more, with its ups and downs.
    Also, not really related to the update but anybody else feels JadexPaul romance got a little bit stale?
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "From the Planet of Ultimate Tyranny to the Land of the Free: show a warm welcome for Grayven!"
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    The gentlest form of Conquest: swaying public opinion.

    "Oh, don't worry." I shake my head as the audience titters. "Tricks like that lose their impact if you keep repeating yourself."
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    Of course. Any good Troll knows that :D

    ...he gave you a Presidential Metal of Freedom, and-."
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    ...he gave you a Presidential Medal of Freedom, and-."

    ...relationship with President Horne, I like to think that together...
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    Extra space here.

    I shrug in mock embarrassment. "Sorry, I was.. playing chess with my son earlier today-" And I was, too. "-and I-. Yeah."
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    <mind blanking> Son?

    Top calibre superheroes like member of the Justice League are..
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    Top calibre superheroes like members of the Justice League are..

    ...good service to the nation and the planet, doesn't not guarantee that the next person in his weight class will be as well.
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    The double negative feels off. Natural speech, or should it be 'does not' instead?

    Some nice perspective on metahuman relations in the Renegade timeline.
     
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    IBulit said:
    Love whenever different variations of superhero systems are brought up. Kinda wish we got more of that stuff, but in majority of comics it's basically: anything not American is bad and tyrannical. Curious if you'll explore Chinese system more, with its ups and downs.
    Also, not really related to the update but anybody else feels JadexPaul romance got a little bit stale?
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    I'm curious if we'll see a conversation or reaction from China about his speech, especially considering his assistance for August General and Immortal Man in Darkness. Paragon Paul's relationship with China has probably improved a lot after giving them Klarion, but I can't say which version has a better standing at this point.

    And about Paul/Jade, people were saying it was stale before they even got together, so there are definitely those who share your opinion, myself probably among them. In a way I like it because it's a realistic outcome from the narrative, since seeking a romantic partner based on how interesting they would be to some meta audience wouldn't be healthy behavior. Personally I'd like the Mother of Mercy illusion pairings to become reality down the line when everyone's more mentally mature.
     
    Eh, he already helped the Chinese, if they wanna ban him or something, whatever.
     
    DrThoth said:
    I'm curious if we'll see a conversation or reaction from China about his speech, especially considering his assistance for August General and Immortal Man in Darkness. Paragon Paul's relationship with China has probably improved a lot after giving them Klarion, but I can't say which version has a better standing at this point.

    And about Paul/Jade, people were saying it was stale before they even got together, so there are definitely those who share your opinion, myself probably among them. In a way I like it because it's a realistic outcome from the narrative, since seeking a romantic partner based on how interesting they would be to some meta audience wouldn't be healthy behavior. Personally I'd like the Mother of Mercy illusion pairings to become reality down the line when everyone's more mentally mature.
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    Red Queen! Jade and Time Trapper! Paul might be interesting. Personally, I think she's boring as a character since she's not a major character in comics, and we don't quite know her well enough as an audience to know what she's going to do.
     
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