With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Bud-E · Nov 6, 2021

deccan2008 said:
What happened to Kal-El? Surely he'd want to be involved.

It's Young Justice adults can't be in plot crucial events.

Chojin Patriarch · Nov 6, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
13th September 2012
09:03 GMT -5

Dana looks around the semicircle of assembled Supergirls.

"Another one?"

I know. I'd make a joke about rabbits But there could well be a Carrot-Girl from the Captain Carrot universe. Seriously, DC had some weird universes until the Crisis happened... Even now, there's some odd ones, like the LEGO DC Universe or Super Hero Girls... Both of which have their own Supergirls.

"Hey!" New Kara raises her right hand and waves, smiling brightly.

"Yep. That's five. I'll take my free one now, please."

OL, please. Don't stretch the joke further than it already has been.

New Kara frowns at me. "Free?"

Angelika nods. "It is a common promotion in American cafés. Each time you buy, they stamp a card, and when you complete the card your next is free."

I love that she's the one who said it first. I'm guessing Kara-16 and Loriel aren't big coffee-drinkers...

"But he doesn't own us."

I nearly make a 'what consenting adults do in private' comment, but I'm not sure that she'd get it, and I suspect that I'd be asked to explain it until we both became mortified.

She's from a much more innocent time. Well, one where the innocence was enforced by the Comics Code... Amusingly, Power Girl's bust is one legacy of creators pushing the line of the Code: 'Females shall be drawn realistically without exaggeration of any physical qualities.' Yeah...

"No. I was merely trying to derive humour from a strange situation. I do not own you, nor would I expect to own the next Supergirl who turned up, assuming that one did."

"Okay. As long as we're clear that slavery is bad." She zips forward into Dana's personal space. "Hello, I'm Kara!"

The next Supergirl is probably likely to be Cir-El, given present form. Let's hope it doesn't get that far, though. She's got her own baggage.

"Ah, hi? Paul, what's going on?"

"I was joking earlier, but we just acquired another Supergirl. I'm a little worried about how many times this can happen before we get an evil Supergirl."

It'll happen sooner or later... All you need is one Negative-matter or reverse-morality universe...

That gets Old Kara's attention. "Are there a lot of evil Supergirls?"

Angelika awkwardly looks away, and I just as awkwardly look away from her. Which is a bit unfair as I don't think that she ever did anything evil. But… Yeah.

Though there apparently is an Ultra-Girl in some variants of the Crime Syndicate universes. A technicality, I know, because Ultraman isn't always evil Kal-El...

"I'd have said 'no', but I've been to a parallel where there was an Evil Mary Marvel. And if there's an evil version of her, then I can only assume."

Noriel sits down against the far wall, arms folded across her chest. "Why am I here?"

Well, you do wear the 'S' logo. Be thankful this is limited to young female members of the Superman Family, or you'd likely be drowning in Superboys and the occasional Superwoman... And not the Earth -14 type.

"If there is something that is bringing us here, then it is not limited to different versions of Kara Zor-El." Angelika shrugs. "I was made with genetic material taken from-."

New Kara's eyes widen. "You're a clone?!"

Let her finish before you go all 'fantastic racism' on her, Kara.

"Kara…"

"Ah..." She visibly squirms. "I mean… You're a clone?"

...Not much better, but at least you're not being loud about it.

"No, I was born human and had Karl's… Ah, Kal-El's, genetic material added to me by a virus."

"So it's like you're his daughter?"

Good phrasing. That could have sounded so wrong to modern ears otherwise. Not that Kara-1 would have got the joke, cinnamon roll that she is.

"Yes." Angelika nods. "Somewhat like that."

"That's completely different!" She spots me staring blankly at her. "Not that there would be anything wrong if it wasn't, but… It… Is."

Best stop while you're ahead, Kara. Unless you're enjoying the taste of boot leather? Though, given that Silver-Age Kryptonians could eat rocks with no harmful effects...

"Nylor Truggs, Dana."

"What about him?"

No playing dumb, Dana. No-one here thinks you're that stupid.

"What happened to him?"

She frowns. "How do you remember that? It shouldn't have happened for you."

Another case of 'open mouth, insert foot', eh? Or a bit of 'Er... I shouldn't have said that...'

"Remember what, Dana?"

"You d-? Oh, damn it!"

Yeah, Brainy's probably going to have words for you about informational security...

aka Giving Away The Game.

New Kara looks at her sternly. "That's a naughty word. As a superhero and more importantly as a Supergirl, you need to set a better example."

"Who is she?"

Amusing, when you consider that in her own universe, Kara-1 would have been a member of the League, alongside her own cousin Kal-El as a teenage boy.

"Kara-? Is it just Kara?"

"Not until I get married."

"I still can't believe that's actually how it works where you're from."

Different worlds, different cultures. Variety is the spice of life, and all that.

"Kara Zor-El. You know how this is parallel sixteen?"

"I… Think I remember someone saying that."

Amusingly, no, you only mentioned 'parallel universes...' Not actually any numbers. But it's okay, OL, it's been a strange day, even for you.

...Oh, wait, that's Dana talking. Then yeah, she probably might remember. It's probably been a few years for her since you last met, though...

"She probably comes from somewhere else."

Though her mannerisms do spark a memory. Is this the Earth One Supergirl? The one who… Tried pushing the Earth out of the way of an asteroid manually in one of the more recent comics where her appearance was never really explained? Who was killed by the Anti-Monitor during the Crisis?

Again, a scene from the 'Many Happy Returns' storyline. As for her death, yes, that also happened.

One of the most iconic moments of 80's comics.

I mean… I knew that the main canon DC universe was out there somewhere, I just… Assumed that I wouldn't have to go anywhere near it.

I'm… Actually a little worried now.

Yeah, knowing interdimensional beings like Superboy Prime, the Anti-monitor, and the Multiversal Brainiac exist is not fun. Especially if there's a chance they noticed the tweaking the Pauls did to temporal mechanics...

"But Truggs. What happened with Truggs?"

"We-. They picked him up first. He was kinda obvious. He spilled his guts right away. He seemed to think that the whole mess was funny. At the time, the Legion didn't know whether all of the changes they picked up was you or him. He was the obvious source, but… He wasn't actually connected to a lot of things that had happened."

And none of them thought to check for the stench of bullshit? Seriously, Truggs is an asshole.

"I thought he was after before the Legion's era."

"No. It's the same era. It's just… Earth? It-."

Parallel Universes. Well, parallel timelines, in this case.

"Is a backwater far from the centre of human civilisation. A Thanagarian protectorate, and not part of the United Planets."

"No, it's an actual part of the Thanagarian Empire. They've got a governor and everything. As far as we can tell, he stole the H-Dial he used to come back in time from a Legion vault."

Yay for infinite possibilites.

"So they've still got him."

"Ah… No. What we did to erase… Your time in the future, that meant that he had to go back too."

Well, spit. So he's still in the wind.

"So he doesn't remember what happened in the future either."

"He shouldn't."

Alas, Sod's Law suggests he will, can or does remember...

"Are your colleagues at least tracking him?"

"They were, but he's got plenty of friends in this era and he's really good at getting away."

Goddammit.

New Kara perks up. "Have you got a picture of him?"

I shrug. "Yes." I use my ring to generate a three dimensional full colour hologram. "That's what he looked like last time I saw-."

Oooh, overpowered Silver-age supersenses! She could look across the entire planet for him!

There's a blast of air, and she's gone.

Darn it.

Ah, you and your understated cursing, OL. Better get a move on, who knows what trouble she'll get up to...

"I'll get after her. Everyone else-."

Angelika nods.

"I think that we should come."

Boy, this is going to be awkward, especially if everyone has different maximum speeds. Best to let OL handle the fast stuff, then.

Why do I get the feeling that by the time they find her, she'll already be holding him by the scruff of the neck, reprimanding him for his foul language? After all, if she's anywhere close to peak Silver-Age Kryptonian levels, she's faster then Time itself.

No, seriously, she and Superman could fly through time. At any rate, having her running around unsupervised promises to be... Entertaining.

Darko · Nov 6, 2021

Chojin Patriarch said:
Though there apparently is an Ultra-Girl in some variants of the Crime Syndicate universes. A technicality, I know, because Ultraman isn't always evil Kal-El...

Yeah, if I remember correctly one version was a human that got superpowers.

Chojin Patriarch said:
, you and your understated cursing,

Hey, New Kara doesn't like cursing and she may hear his thoughts.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Why do I get the feeling that by the time they find her, she'll already be holding him by the scruff of the neck, reprimanding him for his foul language? After all, if she's anywhere close to peak Silver-Age Kryptonian levels, she's faster then Time itself. No, seriously, she and Superman could fly through time. At any rate, having her running around unsupervised promises to be... Entertaining.

Superman once punched time, though I don't remember if it was the one crisis one or the post crisis one.

Stsword · Nov 6, 2021

Darko said:
Superman once punched time, though I don't remember if it was the one crisis one or the post crisis one.

I think you're half remembering Superboy Prime's time punches DC used to explain retcons.

theaceoffire · Nov 6, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Angelika nods.

"I think that we should come."

"Hey now, we barely know each other! Haven't even had a group date!"

Mr Zoat · Nov 6, 2021

Darko said:
Well except for working with a Nazi regime and killing people that opposed it.

Thing is, while Nazi police arrest 'subhumans' and 'deviants', they also arrest murderers and thieves. The fact that an alleged criminal was arrested by a Nazi police officer doesn't prove that they aren't worth punishing.

Doccer · Nov 6, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"I thought he was after before the Legion's era."

after or before

Is she apart of the same universe where Superman can generate mini Supermans from his hands indefinitely with all of his powers?

Prince Charon · Nov 6, 2021

Stsword said:
I think you're half remembering Superboy Prime's time punches DC used to explain retcons.

Not the worst explanation/excuse in comics, I think. Might or might not be in the bottom ten, but I don't want the headache of trying to find out.

Mr Zoat said:
Thing is, while Nazi police arrest 'subhumans' and 'deviants', they also arrest murderers and thieves. The fact that an alleged criminal was arrested by a Nazi police officer doesn't prove that they aren't worth punishing.

Yeah, it's always important to know what they're being arrested for, before judging that.

Mr Zoat · Nov 6, 2021

Doccer said:
after or before

Thank you, corrected.

Is she apart of the same universe where Superman can generate mini Supermans from his hands indefinitely with all of his powers?

I thought that was a hallucination?

Prince Charon · Nov 6, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Thank you, corrected.

I thought that was a hallucination?

It was used in the comics, and I don't think that it was ever said to have been just a hallucination.

The Silver Age makes a lot more sense if you remember that a lot of kids were reading the comics and writing letters to the companies with ideas, and consider that the writers may well have referred to said letters when they were in need of inspiration (and didn't really care about logic or continuity).

Doccer · Nov 6, 2021

Chojin Patriarch said:
Oooh, overpowered Silver-age supersenses! She could look across the entire planet for him!

I thought she was Golden Age?

FourthPear · Nov 6, 2021

Congratulations on the new golden retriever, Paul.

Fouredged · Nov 6, 2021

Doccer said:
I thought she was Golden Age?

There is a debate on age names. Golden age can refer back to the first comics where, for example, superman was just a strong guy who could jump high.

The silver age was when power creep really stuck in and superman became a physical god.

DrThoth · Nov 6, 2021

Back when Oceanus was an upcoming threat and Paragon and Diana had a discussion after the former told everyone about Koryak, Paragon brought up the possibility that the goddesses' blessings were suppressing Diana's Titanic/true power, which she stated was speculation. Are we going to get a definite answer on that at some point?

One could argue that she's just inexperienced (which I believe was one of her hypotheses in response), and she did manage to pull off stuff like using the Spear of Destiny in Heaven and other things. I'm not sure if Paragon's suspicion was warranted (in this specific instance; it's basically common sense to be suspicious of the Olympians in general).

Tangential question based on me thinking about the Greek Gods in the story, but what does Artemis (the goddess) think about Paul, after he humiliated her twin? Also, any chance of Artemis (the superheroine) adopting her namesake as her patron goddess a la Kon/Helios, or would that make her narratively too similar to Renegade-Artemis? Paragon was discussing patron gods with Jade a while back, and I can't think Artemis is particularly attached to an Abrahamic religious worldview?

Pinklestia · Nov 6, 2021

Ngamer11 said:
I want to see Innocent Kara steamroll everything that Truggs tries against her just to demonstrate how powerful she is..

If she is Silver age strong,magic should work just fine.

Someguy Somewhere · Nov 6, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
I shrug. "Yes." I use my ring to generate a three dimensional full colour hologram. "That's what he looked like last time I saw-."

I know this is a bit nit picky, but I think that's the first time he's used his ring and managed to get full colour out of it. Every other time he's brought out a hologram projector from subspace to make non orange graphics, or interfaced with a local display. Way back in the early days of WtR I think he mentioned having an argument with the Ring AI about making not orange things and kinda lost.

In the comics, while it's hard for them to do, there are examples of power ring users making colour accurate holograms and illusions . And since they don't use the whole subspace pocket of holding like OL, they did it purely with the rings.

CTrees · Nov 6, 2021

You know what? Spider Queen is still best girl, but I can accept OLxNew!Kara. The start of this arc showed that OLxJade doesn't really work anymore, and New!Kara is fun. She and OL together on space adventures would be fun. Plus, given Paul's last name issues, and New!Kara's comments about last names and marriage, if they ended up married they'd just be "Paul and Kara," with no last names between them. I'll ship it.

Mr Zoat · Nov 6, 2021

DrThoth said:
Tangential question based on me thinking about the Greek Gods in the story, but what does Artemis (the goddess) think about Paul, after he humiliated her twin?

She assigns most responsibility to Eris.

Also, any chance of Artemis (the superheroine) adopting her namesake as her patron goddess a la Kon/Helios, or would that make her narratively too similar to Renegade-Artemis? Paragon was discussing patron gods with Jade a while back, and I can't think Artemis is particularly attached to an Abrahamic religious worldview?

Artemis isn't particularly interested in religion.

Someguy Somewhere said:
I know this is a bit nit picky, but I think that's the first time he's used his ring and managed to get full colour out of it. Every other time he's brought out a hologram projector from subspace to make non orange graphics, or interfaced with a local display. Way back in the early days of WtR I think he mentioned having an argument with the Ring AI about making not orange things and kinda lost.

In the comics, while it's hard for them to do, there are examples of power ring users making colour accurate holograms and illusions . And since they don't use the whole subspace pocket of holding like OL, they did it purely with the rings.

Technically, there's nothing to stop a Lantern using their ring as a hologram projector; the resulting hologram just won't be a construct. But I'll edit it.

Ganurath · Nov 6, 2021

Darko said:
Though don't be surprised if Paul gets into a philosophical debate on how it's good.

If I remember his off-camera "debate" with Raquel correctly, he's against slavery, but thinks it's unreasonable for African Americans to want to receive reparations for it because none of the African governments have paid reparations to the descendants of people that they enslaved. It was more specific than that it a way I don't remember the specifics of, but it was a bad enough take to match the Pointy Stick Launcher Challenge in terms of foot in mouth.

Ardy · Nov 6, 2021

Ganurath said:
If I remember his off-camera "debate" with Raquel correctly, he's against slavery, but thinks it's unreasonable for African Americans to want to receive reparations for it because none of the African governments have paid reparations to the descendants of people that they enslaved. It was more specific than that it a way I don't remember the specifics of, but it was a bad enough take to match the Pointy Stick Launcher Challenge in terms of foot in mouth.

He started using his ring to track down both sides descendants

Vaermina · Nov 6, 2021

Pinklestia said:
If she is Silver age strong,magic should work just fine.

Gold/Silver age Kryptonians were highly resistant and sometimes even immune to magic.

Pinklestia · Nov 6, 2021

Vaermina said:
Gold/Silver age Kryptonians were highly resistant and sometimes even immune to magic.

No; the Silver age was when Superman got his weakness to magic as the alternative was everyone just having Kryptonite.

Gold Age Superman was superior genetically and didn't have a weakness to Kryptonite but is also much weaker that Silver Age Superman. Also the times superheroes were affected by magic during the Silver age is insane, it seemed any time the writers got lazy they just went "magic!"

Edit: Also Gold Age Superman was not fully invulnerable, he could get hurt with enough force as seen in the Theatrical Animated movie serial.

Thing is he keep going even when hurt and he healed fast.

Z3r0Sama · Nov 6, 2021

Pinklestia said:
If she is Silver age strong,magic should work just fine.

She'll be silver age fast though aka Spectre shows up and tells them to slow the fuck down or they'll break the universe.

Magic isn't much use against that type of speed, especially since Zoat doesn't seem interested in PIS.

Pinklestia · Nov 6, 2021

Z3r0Sama said:
She'll be silver age fast though aka Spectre shows up and tells them to slow the fuck down or they'll break the universe.

Magic isn't much use against that type of speed, especially since Zoat doesn't seem interested in PIS.

Yet he is still using someone that can break reality by punching too hard?

Vaermina · Nov 6, 2021

Pinklestia said:
No; the Silver age was when Superman got his weakness to magic as the alternative was everyone just having Kryptonite.

Gold Age Superman was superior genetically and didn't have a weakness to Kryptonite but is also much weaker that Silver Age Superman. Also the times superheroes were affected by magic during the Silver age is insane, it seemed any time the writers got lazy they just went "magic!"

Edit: Also Gold Age Superman was not fully invulnerable, he could get hurt with enough force as seen in the Theatrical Animated movie serial.

Thing is he keep going even when hurt and he healed fast.

Not exactly.

Stsword · Nov 6, 2021

Pre-Crisis Superman once defeated an opponent who used magic by burrowing into the Earth, absorbing the Earth's magic, and casting Fist

So superman was a muscle wizard before it was cool.

Ngamer11 · Nov 6, 2021

DrThoth said:
Back when Oceanus was an upcoming threat and Paragon and Diana had a discussion after the former told everyone about Koryak, Paragon brought up the possibility that the goddesses' blessings were suppressing Diana's Titanic/true power, which she stated was speculation. Are we going to get a definite answer on that at some point?

One could argue that she's just inexperienced (which I believe was one of her hypotheses in response), and she did manage to pull off stuff like using the Spear of Destiny in Heaven and other things. I'm not sure if Paragon's suspicion was warranted (in this specific instance; it's basically common sense to be suspicious of the Olympians in general).

The Renegade saw proof of this, though he had no idea of what it meant. Also, there is already Word of Zoat on this. Here are the relevant links.

Deadring · Nov 6, 2021

Vaermina said:
Not exactly.

Ah, so magic works on him, except when it would be comedic that it doesn't? He just says "nah, i'm superman" and the freakin gods themselves just have to deal with it! Wild shit, I tell you.

Pinklestia · Nov 7, 2021

Deadring said:
Ah, so magic works on him, except when it would be comedic that it doesn't? He just says "nah, i'm superman" and the freakin gods themselves just have to deal with it! Wild shit, I tell you.

Silver age had a whole lot of insane stuff and bad writting but in the comics the writing got way better in the later silver age. Late gold age was ridiculous as well.

Cuchulin · Nov 7, 2021

Pinklestia said:
Silver age had a whole lot of insane stuff and bad writting but in the comics the writing got way better in the later silver age. Late gold age was ridiculous as well.

Except for Wonder Woman who I understand mostly just suffered through the entire silver age.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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