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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Isn't canon that the Flash (Barry Allen) generates the speed force?
 
Mquz said:
Isn't canon that the Flash (Barry Allen) generates the speed force?
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Yes, that was later established.

But it's not really a contradiction, the Godwave is responsible for pretty much every superbeing in DC, whether their origin is magic, alien, or metahuman.

There are supers who were unaffected because of their powers being extradimensional, but off hand, the only ones I can remember for sure was the Shade, and I want to say Matrix Supergirl, being from a pocket dimension made by the Time Trapper.

There might have been others, it's not like I read all the tie in comics.
 
Yog said:
But Paul did study telekinesis! Or at least has people who did so:
1) Thinking Cup is a telekinesis machine. I expect at least some study to have been done into how it works
2) There are psionic telekinesis amplifiers in GL database of technology Paul has access to. He even made Megan martian-adapted psionic amplifiers for her telekinesis. I would expect that such weapons have counters in the same database.
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Paul isn't a Fae, he isn't forced to always say the truth.
 
Yeah, once a continuity has as many contradictory rules/laws/explanations etc as DC has, I disregard them in favor of whatever fannon explanation makes the most sense.
 
Yeah, but our own universe is weird - maybe even as weird as dc, what with light being both a particle and a wave, but not simultaneously according to quantum mechanics.and laws off physics being seemingly completely different and contradictory at micro and macro levels (why there is no universal theory of physics.) Also, gravity actually being warps in space-time.

Fairly sure the physics community has more contradictory rules / laws / explanations than dc.
 
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Ways and Means (supplementary, Renegade option)
  • Threadmarks
    • 24th January 2012
    22:17 GMT +7

    David Hyde stands before the monitors which would normally bear the silhouetted images of members of the Light. Sinestro shows me that he's uneasy, but neither his stance nor his facial expression give anything away. The fact that most of the monitors aren't lit up probably isn't helping. Of the original Light, only myself and Lex Luthor are still amongst the living, and I never had any contact with him.

    Mr Hyde orientates himself towards Lex's L-3 screen. "It's true, then."

    "Yes." Lex's silhouette glances toward my own. "All other then-current members of the Light were killed last year. They have since been replaced, but I felt that you would feel more comfortable dealing with people with whom you were already familiar."

    "Ordinarily, I'd say that as long as the work and the money keep coming, that wasn't my problem. But a lot of the things you've hired my men and I to do lately are things that the Justice League are likely to take an interest in. Or worse, Grayven."

    I have to mute my monitor.

    "If you want me to keep working for you, I want to change our relationship."

    Lex stares down at him for a few moments. "Very well. This is not entirely unexpected, and we are quite happy with your work so far. L Eight will discuss the matter with you further. If you elect not to continue in our employ, the balance of your outstanding fees will be paid by the end of the day and we will not contact you further."

    Mr Hyde stares up at the screen. "Alright. Will this be a face to face meeting?"

    I unmute my monitor. "If necessary. L Three, thank you for the introduction."

    "I'll leave it in your hands." Lex deactivates his monitor and Mr Hyde orientates fully on me.

    "You have some requests, Black Manta?"

    "Yes. I want to know who I'm dealing with."

    "We don't use these screens for decoration. The whole purpose of remaining anonymous is to prevent knowledge of our identities becoming widespread."

    "I know. I was hired by Ocean Master, and I knew that he was a member of the Light. After he died, Vandal Savage introduced himself. I'm not asking because I want leverage. I'm asking because it lets me know who I'm dealing with. It shows faith in my work and my professional integrity."

    "Oh, believe me, Black Manta, I understand where you're coming from. And you're right, it's perfectly reasonable."

    Mother Box, hush tube.

    Ping.

    My image on the monitor goes still as I step through into the room just behind him.

    "Is this-"

    He's diving forward, twisting in the air to bring his shoulder-mounted missile launcher to bear!

    I raise my eyebrows. "-better?"

    "Grayven. You got L Three as well."

    I fold my arms behind my back. "Oh, don't be absurd. I became L Eight by what passed for legitimate means, found out that most of my colleagues were morons and killed them. A good old fashioned internal coup."

    "But-. You had the Justice League, the whole world's police…"

    "Yes. What's the line?" I lean forward. "'The greatest trick the devil ever pulled…'"

    He looks shocked, and then more than a little impressed. "Was convincing the world he didn't exist."

    I grin. "I even got Batman to order me to infiltrate the Light."

    He pushes himself up slightly from where he landed. "And now you run it."

    I extend my right hand. "Would you like to get up? L Three wasn't lying. We are quite happy with your work." He doesn't take my hand, but he does pull himself upright. "Please, follow me."

    I turn around and walk back through the hush tube, heading towards the largest seat in the classically appointed study on the other side. This place used to belong to Savage, and didn't need all that much work to bring it up to spec. No Apokoliptian technology -that would be a bit of a giveaway- but high-end human technology doesn't result in me feeling like I'm slumming it. I turn and sit just as Mr Hyde walks through, then gesture to one of the guest chairs.

    "Please."

    Somewhat cautiously, he walks around and sits down.

    "So. You want more. Is it a matter of money? Because if so, I imagine that we can increase your remuneration somewhat."

    "No. I want more opportunities. A promotion. More information on what the Light is doing. I want to be a bigger part of what we're doing."

    "Really?"

    "Yes. I've been loyal-." I bow my head, chuckling to myself. "What's the joke?"

    "Loyal. Black Manta, what do you think the Light is?"

    "A global network of supervillains, centralising power for efficiency and effectiveness as a response to organisations like the Justice League."

    "And what is its guiding ideology?"

    He looks uncertain for a second before controlling his expression. But he doesn't have an answer.

    "The Light is most assuredly not a 'global network of supervillains', and if you think that then you need to stop reading so many comics. You're a professional mercenary. What have you got in common with a self-indulgent spree-killer like the Joker, or a self-centred apotheosis-seeker like Libra? Nothing. Trying to make you work together would be a ludicrous endeavour." I lean forward. "The goal of the Light is to ensure that humans are active participants in the future of their species. Yes, we use supervillain hirelings when it makes sense to do so. No, we don't intend to involve many of them in future decision making. Usually, the sort of person inclined to become a costumed criminal is temperamentally unsuited to it."

    "Its own future? What do you mean by that?"

    "If you became aware of a forthcoming alien invasion tomorrow, would you phone the Justice League… Or the Pentagon?"

    "Neither." His eyes narrow slightly. "But you're saying that we're replacing governments with superheroes. And those are harder to control."

    "No. It's not about control on a.. moment by moment basis. It's about who determines the shape of humanity's future. I don't think it should be men in tights. I think earning a piece of the universe should be a mass participation event. That is the Light's ideology."

    He nods slowly. "Luthor's space fleet."

    "It's in line with our beliefs."

    "Was I overthrowing governments so you can get cheaper raw materials?"

    "No. You killed the people you killed because they were a waste of space. Corruption might be useful in the short term, but in the longer term it's inefficient for the civilisation. Corruption hurts our interests in a thousand tiny ways, and my colleagues and I have a broad enough range of interests that we actually feel it."

    "So it wasn't about taking over their territory."

    "We've arranged for the governments to be reconstructed, but that doesn't mean that Light-affiliated corporations will make a killing. In the longer term, over a large enough area, honest dealing generates greater returns. Take your own work, for example. If someone hired you to transport an object whose value was greater than what they were paying you, would you steal it from them?"

    "No. That would kill my reputation. And if they could afford me, they could afford someone who could take a shot at me."

    "My colleagues and I think in a not dissimilar way about the world. So tell me, Black Manta: what can the Light do for you?"
     
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    • Mquz said:
    Yeah, but our own universe is weird - maybe even as weird as dc, what with light being both a particle and a wave, but not simultaneously according to quantum mechanics.and laws off physics being seemingly completely different and contradictory at micro and macro levels (why there is no universal theory of physics.) Also, gravity actually being warps in space-time.
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    I don't know... It's complicated, and strange, sure, but as a whole it's... elegant. It only really sounds strange when you just hear little tidbits, like "gravity is actually space bending" or "small particles can teleport through solid objects".

    But as a whole, it's like all the pieces of a puzzle coming together to make a picture. We don't quite have all the pieces, sure, and sometimes we figure out we need to rearrange a few that we thought were supposed to go somewhere else. But we can still tell that when it's done, it's going to be a beautiful picture.

    Now, DC, DC is just awful. Everything is bizarre, complicated but at the same time shallow, and creepily anthropocentric. And all the rules are "rules" which last about as long until some guy comes along and punches the laws of physics in the face.

    Somehow the DC universe has managed to take the outlinings of physics that could lead to a beautiful and diverse universe, and mangle them until you get a boring galaxy filled with a bunch of lame human-lookalikes. Ugh.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "Ordinarily, I'd say that as long as the work and the money keep coming, that wasn't my problem. But a lot of the things you've hired my men and I to do lately are things that the Justice League are likely to take an interest in. Or worse, Grayven."
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    Amusing, he's more dreaded than the league. Then again, most people know the League won't kill you. Grayven has no such failing.

    Lex stares down at him for a few moments. "Very well. This is not entirely unexpected, and we are quite happy with your work so far. L Eight will discuss the matter with you further. If you elect not to continue in our employ, the balance of your outstanding fees will be paid by the end of the day and we will not contact you further."
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    No 'You know too much' backstab here.

    A good old fashioned internal coop."
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    A good old fashioned internal coup."

    He pushes himself up slightly form where he landed.
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    He pushes himself up slightly from where he landed.

    "No. I want more opportunities. A promotion. More information on what the Light is doing. I want to be a bigger part of what we're doing."
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    You want to be a lieutenant, not a footsoldier.

    "The Light is most assuredly not a 'global network of supervillains', and if you think that then you need to stop reading so many comics.
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    Hah!

    "The goal of the Light is to ensure that humans are active participants in the future of their species. Yes, we use supervillain hirelings when it makes sense to do so. No, we don't intend to involve many of them in future decision making. Usually, the sort of person inclined to become a costumed criminal is temperamentally unsuited to it."
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    What an understatement...

    "No. It's not about control on a.. moment by moment basis. It's about who determines the shape of humanity's future. I don't think it should be men in tights. I think earning a piece of the universe should be a mass participation event. That is the Light's ideology."
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    You don't want power for a few, you want power for all. A form of conquest in itself.

    He nods slowly. "Luthor's space fleet."
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    Smart man.

    If someone hired you to transport an object whose value was greater than what they were paying you, would you steal it from them?"
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    And that is an actual danger with some of these supervillianous morons.

    "No. That would kill my reputation. And if they could afford me, they could afford someone who could take a shot at me."
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    Pragmatic!

    A very satisfying interlude. Good to see Grayven putting his best foot forwards.
     
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    Isn't Black Manta the guy that pretended to be autistic so he could fuck with Aquaman by making him known as "the hero that punches autistic people?"

    Actually isn't Black Manta absolutely insane and obsessed with fucking with Aquaman in every way possible?
     
    Hm. That's a nice mission statement. But isn't staging "wide scale participation" behind everyone's back the opposite of what they claim they want?

    It smacks of "wise patriarchs/matriarchs knowing better than those silly children around them".
     
    King of Frost said:
    Isn't Black Manta the guy that pretended to be autistic so he could fuck with Aquaman by making him known as "the hero that punches autistic people?"

    Actually isn't Black Manta absolutely insane and obsessed with fucking with Aquaman in every way possible?
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    No, he's the guy who used his real autism as an excuse for his supervillainy, only to reveal himself to still be an evil fuck who betrayed Aquaman at the earliest opportunity after Aquaman made him neurotypical, and while Aquaman was busy in the process of stopping the Thirst from killing every single living thing on Earth.

    For those who didn't read that storyline, the Thirst was like a mini-Nekron, he was trying to dam up the connection between the Secret Sea and Earth, if he had succeeded than Earth would become conceptually incapable of supporting life. Obviously this was before DC decided that Earth was where the Life Entity was binge watching GoT or whatever it was doing.

    I would imagine that people who are on the spectrum would probably be insulted by his using autism as an excuse for crimes up to infanticide.

    Black Manta likes to make excuses for his behavior, actually, for a while it was black power, the guy YJ made Kaldur's stepfather was sucked in by that spiel, before he realized that Black Manta wouldn't even bother to piss on him if he were on fire.
     
    Handlewithcare said:
    Hm. That's a nice mission statement. But isn't staging "wide scale participation" behind everyone's back the opposite of what they claim they want?

    It smacks of "wise patriarchs/matriarchs knowing better than those silly children around them".
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    It isn't a secret that Richard Swift has joined the Justice League.
    It isn't a secret that Lex Luthor is building a space fleet.
    It isn't a secret that Queen Clea is trading with the surface.
    It isn't a secret that Cranius is working with the US military.
    It isn't a secret that Adom has taken over Kahndaq.
    It isn't a secret that 'Larissa' is running a magic school.
    It isn't a secret that Grayven is grayvenning.
     
    RichardWhereat said:
    Not entirely wrong though, as Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst form of government,"
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    "except for all those other ones that have been tried from time to time," or words to that effect. People keep forgetting important parts of sayings, especially ones that significantly change, or even totally reverse, the meaning.

    (I'm not sure that you did, or were just leaving it off to make a point.)
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    It isn't a secret that Richard Swift has joined the Justice League.
    It isn't a secret that Lex Luthor is building a space fleet.
    It isn't a secret that Queen Clea is trading with the surface.
    It isn't a secret that Cranius is working with the US military.
    It isn't a secret that Adom has taken over Kahndaq.
    It isn't a secret that 'Larissa' is running a magic school.
    It isn't a secret that Grayven is grayvenning.
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    Then why is their cooperation in the Light a secret?
     
    Prince Charon said:
    "except for all those other ones that have been tried from time to time," or words to that effect. People keep forgetting important parts of sayings, especially ones that significantly change, or even totally reverse, the meaning.

    (I'm not sure that you did, or were just leaving it off to make a point.)
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    Left it off to make a point, but left the comma there to show I knew the rest of the phrase.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "The goal of the Light is to ensure that humans are active participants in the future of their species.
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    Given how many members of the Light are non-human this is somewhat amusing to me. Maybe "humans and other Earth-natives"?

    Handlewithcare said:
    Hm. That's a nice mission statement. But isn't staging "wide scale participation" behind everyone's back the opposite of what they claim they want?

    It smacks of "wise patriarchs/matriarchs knowing better than those silly children around them".
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    Sort of, but it's not like the status quo is necessarily doing what the majority of people want either. It's not like anyone on DC's Earth is doing a planet-wide plebiscite to determine what the global response to alien invasions should be, and in the absence of that you have groups like the Justice League and the Light contending over what that response should be based on incomplete information.

    Heh, the Light is basically the nativist backlash against what it sees as rule by alien elites, which is especially amusing given how few of its leaders are baseline humans. :p
     
    Mquz said:
    Wait... so is he doing the Syndrome thing? "When everyone is super, no one will be?"
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    Not exactly. At most it's a side-effect.

    He wants humanity, as a whole, to become self-determinable on the galactic scale rather than just be targets for whatever conquerors decide the planet looks like a convenient target. And that means having Earth/human civilization develop the methods (whether technology, magic, or other enhancement)... and more importantly the will... to be able to solve things on their own rather than just wait for a select group such as the Justice League to deal with whatever crises pop up. The original Light had this as their stated goal as well, although with the caveat of "Under my/our leadership" lurking around, whereas Grayven wants the progress itself rather than direct control of the resulting superpower (aside from hopefully being able to take down/defend himself from Darkseid with the resulting developments).
     
    TheEyes said:
    Given how many members of the Light are non-human this is somewhat amusing to me. Maybe "humans and other Earth-natives"?
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    Who on the Light isn't human?

    Lex is human. The Renegade, Circe and Queen Clea have magic and have been Awakened, but they're human. Richard and Adom are modified humans. Cranius is made entirely of human parts.
     
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