With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Radix]

Aligned Continuity is kind of werid given it was supposed to be a single canon universe. But there were some divergences between the video games, novels, and Prime.

Optimus could have turned down becoming Prime. But on the other hand it legitimized the reform and would allow him to end Functionism. They had succeeded. Megatron just wanted power for himself at that point.

And sure being a Librarian slave isnt as bad as a mining slave. But it is still slavery. And it isnt a contest. The fact that Megatron had it worse doesnt mean he should be in charge.

Plus most of the old aristocracy werent exactly the Autobots. Most of them were wiped out by Megatron.

Plus it was Megatron who infected Cybertron eith Dark Energon in the war.

 

[Vaermina]

"I have almost exactly the same build as Starscream." She frowns for a moment. "At least, the build he had last time I saw him. It's been a while." She shrugs. "We're both light frame aerial models. Seekers. I don't have any sort of internal fabricator. Very few transformers do, because we don't make more of ourselves like that. My voice? I changed my default voice-" An unpleasant, screeching, grating and far lower pitched voice issues from her mouth. "-a long time ago because I wanted something unique, and I never had any reason to change it again. It's just a setting in my vocal processor; it doesn't signify anything."

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That hasn't been true since Solus Prime went back in time and retconned history so there were both male and female bots.

"I can adapt to an entirely new body form in a few seconds just by scanning a vehicle. I switch from the mental patterns needed to control my robot form to the ones needed to control my aero fighter mode in less than a second. Adapting my cognition processors to stimuli that I couldn't normally experience isn't much harder. And it's a real rush." Her eyes narrow. "Why are you so interested? Do you have an eye on someone?"

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Or you could just use a Holomatter Avatar...

 

[Mr Zoat]

Found her floating in space in stasis lock, didn't immediately realise that she wasn't a space ship.

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This was after the fight near Junkion, where Optimus Prime shot her through the window of Nemesis's bridge and she got dumped into space before they left.

Aligned Continuity is kind of weird given it was supposed to be a single canon universe. But there were some divergences between the video games, novels, and Prime.

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That might be where the problem is coming from. I've only watched Transformers Prime. I'll draw on the rest, but I don't know it in detail.

Optimus could have turned down becoming Prime. But on the other hand it legitimized the reform and would allow him to end Functionism. They had succeeded. Megatron just wanted power for himself at that point.

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None of this was in the series, and I don't think it was in the games.

Though if everyone who mandated Functionalism was dead and all of the survivors through Megatron was great, that's pretty legitimate.

And sure being a Librarian slave isn't as bad as a mining slave. But it is still slavery. And it isn't a contest. The fact that Megatron had it worse doesn't mean he should be in charge.

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No. Being Alpha Trion's aide is not anything like what most people would consider slavery. He doesn't have to worry about being scrapped or where his next meal is coming from.

Plus most of the old aristocracy weren't exactly the Autobots. Most of them were wiped out by Megatron.

Plus it was Megatron who infected Cybertron with Dark Energon in the war.

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And... The long term consequences of that were what, exactly?

 

[WaleXdraK]

please I swear to god I need to know more, I know you usually don't take requests or post your Elseworlds back to back but there really aren't enough transformed fanfics out there these days at least nom that are good. so just want to ask if I could find out the background of that world

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Same, while it's something Mr Zoat don't usually do i wouldn't mind a couples of chapters more of this elseworld or at least more information about it.

 

[Darko]

Krummeskreuz (Story Only)
Krummeskreuz (part 1)
Krummeskreuz (part 2)

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21st May 2013
21:43 MTZ

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Missing the date above the spoiler box link for the chapter.

And what does 'Krummeskreuz' mean exactly?

Is this episode going to be paragon focused, or is it going to primarily follow this version of Paul?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Missing the date above the spoiler box link for the chapter.

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Thank you, corrected.

And what does 'Krummeskreuz' mean exactly?

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Crooked Cross.

Is this episode going to be paragon focused, or is it going to primarily follow this version of Paul?

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No, I've only written one other Transformers Prime segment and don't plan any others.

Mr Zoat, I'm reposting because I think you missed these. The dates of the parts mean that part 10 should be Apr. 2, and part 11 should be under 12 August 1997. For the latest chapter, that should say 'you'.

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[WereDragon]

What do you think that the Autobot wargoal was?

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Mostly? Survive.

It is telling that eventually the Autobots decided to leave, expending vast resources doing so that they could instead have used to continue the war.
Equally telling is that the Decipticons decided to pursue, also expending vast resources, rather than declaring victory and trying to restore their wrecked planet.

Megatron started the war and refused to let it end under any conditions other than his absolute victory.

Length doesn't necessarily mean that. It's not really clear in the cartoon how much actual fighting is still going on in places other than Earth. There didn't appear to be any ongoing conflict on Cyberton itself, for example.

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Well, no. That happens when all the survivors travel to another planet. There is no one left to engage in fighting.

And from a human point of view the lack of strategic weapons is wierd.

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True. My assumption is that strategic weapons, due to the square cubed law, aren't actually very efficient/effective at killing people as tough as a Transformer. For a 2 meter meat-bag the lethal radius of kiloton and megaton nukes is multiple kilometres. For a giant robot the radius might not be all that much more than a grenade.

No, Iacon was the Autobot seat of government. They were still hanging in there.

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Seats of government are wherever the rulers say they are. Once Megatron had more than half their civilisation answering to him, he was the one who decided where the seat of government was.
And given Optimus was 'the last prime' I suspect everyone in the old government was dead pretty early.

 

[Chaoswind]

Sole blame? No. But he is significantly more to blame than anyone else.

And at any point after the initial victories Megatron could have settled for a negotiated peace, having killed all of the actual oppressors and shattered the status quo beyond recovery. Instead he decided he would accept total dominion or total destruction.

Multi-million year conflict would seem to indicate they were indeed trying really hard to kill each other.

It started as a rebellion. It stopped being one long before humanity evolved.

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So the guy that had to spent A LONG time fighting in gladiator combat killing other slaves for the pleasure of the cybertronian elite that only "earned" his freedom because he became way too fucking popular and when he started to talk everyone started to listen THAT guy has a warped view on how freedom is earned? You don't say.

That is a point people often ignore, Megatron didn't earn his freedom fighting, there was no way to earn freedom in Cybertron, he just became incredibly popular as a warrior and when he spoke others listened including members of the high class that also went Decepticon (like Soundwave?).

Megatron isn't a good guy, but he is 100% not at fault for Cybertron being a shit hole, Optimus holds A LOT more of the blame for that because he turned what would be a one sided purge of extremely guilty amoral slave owners and suffering peddlers (dismantling slaves for parts to sell to the high and middle class) into an actual civil war.

Megatron thinks in terms of fighting because that is all he knew about life, he needed moderate voices around him to keep him grounded and Optimus took all of those when he switched sides.


Also this update highlights why peace was no longer possible after the war started, too many cybertronians on both sides had lost close friends in combat, their equivalent to close family members. Even if Megatron wanted to stop too many of his troops wouldn't because they wanted revenge for the friends/family they lost, same with the autobots side.

If Megatron had ordered the Deceptions to stop fighting how many of them would actually do that? How many autobots would have stopped if Optimus had done the same?

The #1 reason for each cybertronian to join up either side was for revenge, you cannot stop bloodlusted troops, some would listen, but way more wouldn't. It took aeons of combat for some of the survivors to start to grow tired of killing and fighting and a lot of them are still extremely emotional in their desire to make the other side pay.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Mostly? Survive.

It is telling that eventually the Autobots decided to leave, expending vast resources doing so that they could instead have used to continue the war.
Equally telling is that the Decipticons decided to pursue, also expending vast resources, rather than declaring victory and trying to restore their wrecked planet.

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Depending on which bits of that continuity we're talking about, Optimus Prime has already stolen and hidden the Allspark. That meant no more transformers or energon, and caches left during the earlier parts of the war were all there was to eat.

And I'm pretty sure that in the game the Autobots fled because Iacon was about to be overrun and that was their only alternative to death.

Megatron started the war and refused to let it end under any conditions other than his absolute victory.

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The High Counsel doesn't get to enslave someone and then imply that them fighting back is them starting a war. The war started when they decided that people are property.

True. My assumption is that strategic weapons, due to the square cubed law, aren't actually very efficient/effective at killing people as tough as a Transformer. For a 2 meter meat-bag the lethal radius of kiloton and megaton nukes is multiple kilometres. For a giant robot the radius might not be all that much more than a grenade.

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No, they had photon missiles. Apparently they showed up in the novels, though I remember them from the 1987 Transformers annual where Vos and Tarn MADded each other with them.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

There is just so much I could unpack in this, but as reactions go I think I'll just go with this instead.

Spoiler: Bah-weep-Graaaaagnah wheep ni ni bong

 

[Vaermina]

That might be where the problem is coming from. I've only watched Transformers Prime. I'll draw on the rest, but I don't know it in detail.

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Yea... Maybe you should avoid the setting then...

You don't do well respecting setting's you don't really know all that well...

 

[Bud-E]

Do any Paul's have a green ring? I know there's an anti-green Paul but have we seen any Paul's work for the Guardians or have an unalliened green ring?

 

[Ostentatiousnessness]

I can't wait for the various Pauls to become to frustrated with the hair pulling levels of stupidity across the realities that they decide to form some sort of… Citadel… made up of Pauls, in order to sort that shit out.


As an aside, I'd be very interested in seeing a version of Orange!Paul dropped in Brocton Bay for one of these "Tales from Beyond" just to see how he'd deal with that cluster fuck.

 

[Stsword]

Yea... Maybe you should avoid the setting then...

You don't do well respecting setting's you don't really know all that well...

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Eh, he saw the show, that's the important part.

It's not like the Stargirl thing where we're supposed to respect Infinity Inc despite them being so incompetent that they couldn't find supervillains in a decade when they were using their real names.

I mean did Jade fuck his brains out until that Paul lost his memories? Couldn't remember Jordan and Cameron Mahkent? henry King Sr who was married to Merry Pemberton and Jr? Larry Crock, Paula Brooks, and Artemis Crock? Isaac Bowen? Not a single one of them?

Paul should have been able to find the Injustice Society in a weekend leaving Courtney rescuing cats out of trees ten years later

 

[NightmareWarden]

Do any Paul's have a green ring? I know there's an anti-green Paul but have we seen any Paul's work for the Guardians or have an unalliened green ring?

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We had enough greens that Krona was able to work on his scary project, but no, I don't believe we have seen any traditional Green Pauls. I recall Mr Zoat once saying he'd probably struggle with Green (Willpower) the most of the whole spectrum. Remember Buffyverse Paul with the black ring? He is so much more functional than anyone could expect from his situation!

Part of that is due to the lack of Nekron in his head, but whatever. Mr Zoat knows himself best and he's opted not to write as Paul for interesting green lanterns.

 

[Zig]

I can't wait for the various Pauls to become to frustrated with the hair pulling levels of stupidity across the realities that they decide to form some sort of… Citadel… made up of Pauls, in order to sort that shit out.


As an aside, I'd be very interested in seeing a version of Orange!Paul dropped in Brocton Bay for one of these "Tales from Beyond" just to see how he'd deal with that cluster fuck.

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Someone made an omake of it at some point. Zoat also had the yellow enlightened version visit.

 

[Vaermina]

Eh, he saw the show, that's the important part.

It's not like the Stargirl thing where we're supposed to respect Infinity Inc despite them being so incompetent that they couldn't find supervillains in a decade when they were using their real names.

I mean did Jade fuck his brains out until that Paul lost his memories? Couldn't remember Jordan and Cameron Mahkent? henry King Sr who was married to Merry Pemberton and Jr? Larry Crock, Paula Brooks, and Artemis Crock? Isaac Bowen? Not a single one of them?

Paul should have been able to find the Injustice Society in a weekend leaving Courtney rescuing cats out of trees ten years later

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Not really?

Because he's already making up a bunch of stuff that's contrary to the show so he can do the whole "Oh my SI shows up and lectures others for beings idiots" thing.

 

[Michael Vonica]

As an aside, I'd be very interested in seeing a version of Orange!Paul dropped in Brocton Bay for one of these "Tales from Beyond" just to see how he'd deal with that cluster fuck.

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As clear as I can tell, the powers in worm are completely technological in nature, and a ring shouldn't have too much difficulty interfacing or hacking into them. Judging from that story's plot, the powers shouldn't be all that smart, and hacking them shouldn't be that difficult, as long as Paul wanted it enough. Copying the powers directly, on the other hand, would likely drain ring battery fast.

As for a power source, while I'm sure he could find plenty of exotic energy forms around, and even work on making some new ones, I doubt he could quickly find anything that could power a ring. But as long as he was able to establish a controlling position over a network of enough powers before losing ring battery, he should be able to deal with most threats, find a method to continue to clean up the rest of the messes in that setting, and maybe even set up some sort of background research into fixing up and studying his ring, however long that would take. I'm pretty sure that Kronos from Fallout has done the same, despite how long making any progress there will take him. Not like he doesn't have the time, with his lifespan.

Of course, for a while, Paul would be left baffled, asking himself questions like "What is going on?" and "Why would anyone do that or let this happen?". And there is a very real non zero possibility of someone immediately attempting to kill him after his appearance. I should also mention that I have yet to read Worm, although it is on my future reading list. Near the middle.

 

[Assblaster5000]

As clear as I can tell, the powers in worm are completely technological in nature, and a ring shouldn't have too much difficulty interfacing or hacking into them. Judging from that story's plot, the powers shouldn't be all that smart, and hacking them shouldn't be that difficult, as long as Paul wanted it enough. Copying the powers directly, on the other hand, would likely drain ring battery fast.

As for a power source, while I'm sure he could find plenty of exotic energy forms around, and even work on making some new ones, I doubt he could quickly find anything that could power a ring. But as long as he was able to establish a controlling position over a network of enough powers before losing ring battery, he should be able to deal with most threats, find a method to continue to clean up the rest of the messes in that setting, and maybe even set up some sort of background research into fixing up and studying his ring, however long that would take. I'm pretty sure that Kronos from Fallout has done the same, despite how long making any progress there will take him. Not like he doesn't have the time, with his lifespan.

Of course, for a while, Paul would be left baffled, asking himself questions like "What is going on?" and "Why would anyone do that or let this happen?". And there is a very real non zero possibility of someone immediately attempting to kill him after his appearance. I should also mention that I have yet to read Worm, although it is on my future reading list. Near the middle.

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Not really tech-based, more hyper-advanced, multi-dimensional biology, and the powers only work within a certain range of Earth, with WOG from Wildbow himself that if you were to just start sniping people from space no one could do anything about it and precogs couldn't predict it.

Hacking is seemingly possible though, just a question of how to actually go about doing that and getting the useful stuff out of it. A non-blackboxed Tinker power, preferably with restrictions removed, could maybe let him reliably recharge the ring, but it's iffy.

 

[Odysseus2099]

with WOG from Wildbow himself that if you were to just start sniping people from space no one could do anything about it and precogs couldn't predict it.

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Citation? Given we have the Entities being shown precogging Earth from several galaxies away, I doubt its that limited.

 

[Assblaster5000]

Citation? Given we have the Entities being shown precogging Earth from several galaxies away, I doubt its that limited.

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His direct words to the question of how PtV interacts with anything space-borne are:

"Powers don't generally range well beyond Earth's atmosphere - a conceit of setting. So flying into the empty darkness of space and bombarding the planet would do fine vs. PtV."

And here is where I got that from. The first response to the question is his, with the specific quote being one of the last ones in that comment, though it goes into several other things that could be relevant as well.

Also, I never said anything about The Entities, just powers. Same difference, I know, but I felt like pointing it out anyways.

 

[Michael Vonica]

Not really tech-based, more hyper-advanced, multi-dimensional biology, and the powers only work within a certain range of Earth, with WOG from Wildbow himself that if you were to just start sniping people from space no one could do anything about it and precogs couldn't predict it.

Hacking is seemingly possible though, just a question of how to actually go about doing that and getting the useful stuff out of it. A non-blackboxed Tinker power, preferably with restrictions removed, could maybe let him reliably recharge the ring, but it's iffy.

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By tech based, I mean conforming to a set of pre determined rules of reality. So anything with a specific structure to it, whether that be biological, mechanical, or some weird fundamental particle arrangement. In a setting that mixes tech and magic/divinity/random bullshit powers, like DC, the line between the two is very wavy. From what I can tell about Worm, and correct me if I'm wrong, the powers come from giant semi intelligent super computer machines which have specific features, processes, and purposes built into them, and which require a great deal of energy to function. This makes it seem that they are really obvious in terms of function, with no intentional or unintentional attempts at obscuring their own inner workings. I put this clearly on the tech side of the line.

For a power ring, which is the equivalent of a multi function super computer itself, interfacing with something like that, or even copying it, with some effort, shouldn't be too difficult. The powers already interface with each other quite a bit under normal circumstances, so recognizing those channels and taking advantage of them would be the goal.

Now, with magic/divinity/random bullshit powers, it's really hard to define what exactly sets them apart from crazy super science, which in stories, can often do the same sort of feats. One approach would be optimization. The kind of powers that I've just mentioned lean on some kind of mystical aspect of the world to function. In DC, they can all pretty much be tied back to some sort of soul. Instead of requiring a bunch of different components and structures in order to do what they do, these powers offload everything about themselves into the soul. They are so optimized that they require only one component, and no outside observer would be able to determine their function through any means other than trial and error. Of course, technology can reach such a point as well, and that's where the line gets wavy again.

This has been my random ramblings on how I think fictional power systems should be catagorized. Take from it what you will.

 

[Radix]

This was after the fight near Junkion, where Optimus Prime shot her through the window of Nemesis's bridge and she got dumped into space before they left.

That might be where the problem is coming from. I've only watched Transformers Prime. I'll draw on the rest, but I don't know it in detail.

None of this was in the series, and I don't think it was in the games.

Though if everyone who mandated Functionalism was dead and all of the survivors through Megatron was great, that's pretty legitimate.

No. Being Alpha Trion's aide is not anything like what most people would consider slavery. He doesn't have to worry about being scrapped or where his next meal is coming from.

And... The long term consequences of that were what, exactly?

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Fair enough. Most of the backstory I am drawing upon is from the 2 novels: Exile and Exodus I believe they were called.

The consequence of the dark energon was that it was corrupting all of Cybertron so they had tp shut down the core or risk losing everything. This meant a long time to wait and in the meantime Cyberyron became a dead world.

The Autobots then attempted to leave. The Decepticons then chased after them. And then they destabilized multiple governments on the colonies.

But fair enough if you have only seen the cartoon. Personally I have no issue with using only that as "primary canon" and then filling in the gaps with modified Aligned canon. That is basically what you do with YJ already. Stick yo canon for S1 and S2 and fill in the rest where it fits or make it up.

It has been a while since I watched Prime but I remember that Cyberyron was dead because Optimus shut down the core to keep it safe. Especially since thw war devestated the planet.

Also that as of episode 3, Megatron had already used a massive shard of dark energon to corrupt cybertron and make a zombie army.

Megatron certainly started off with noble intentions, but went way off the deep end long before the war left Cybertron. And certainly by the time it came to Earth he was definitely gone.

 

[Radix]

Another interesting part of Aligned continuity is that Optimus wasnt actually just a librarian but a mindwiped member of the Thirteen Primes. After their version of satan betrayed them. Nova wasnt a true Prime.

Of course yhe history of the 13 is always kind of sketchy since supposedly they are unique across the multiverse families, which doesnt really work for a bunch of reasons.

Man this is really making me reminisce. I used to really be into transformers. The UK comics had some pretty good sci fi. Plus actual progression driven by the fact they qere selling toys.

 

[Assblaster5000]

From what I can tell about Worm, and correct me if I'm wrong, the powers come from giant semi intelligent super computer machines which have specific features, processes, and purposes built into them, and which require a great deal of energy to function

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Spot on about how Shards work from what I know, but how intelligent they (and Entities for that matter) are is a bit debatable without WOG on the matter, which I've sadly got nothing on for this particular topic.

They seem to operate with some kind of driving will and agency at times, but that could just be them possessing a lot of very advanced code that makes it look like they've got any sort of personal intelligence.

But the main issue with the hacking is that the Shards are in other universes, so, while they do send signals out, how viable it is for a beginning Paul to detect, access, and then hijack those transmissions for his own purposes is up in the air since at least most versions don't start with the ability to scan for an extradimensional anything from what I recall. An actual hack could likely be done by a Power Ring with relative ease though given the likely gap between Entity and Malthusian technology. Baring them being weird, crystalline meat getting in the way at least.

The real issue is Zion potentially noticing that part of its brain was just taken over. Or some maybe spoilers that could very well not be true about Eden.

Edit:But this has gotten pretty off topic, so if you have anything else to say on the subject it's probably best put in DMs or the like. Maybe wait for another Worm segment if that ever happens.

 

[Darko]

Do any Paul's have a green ring? I know there's an anti-green Paul but have we seen any Paul's work for the Guardians or have an unalliened green ring?

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There was the version that ended up in the Stargirl universe and got Alan Scott's ring.

 

[DrThoth]

So what does 'Crooked Cross' being the title signify? Is it in German just to shout-out that we're dealing with Nazi Earth in the main chapters of the episode, or something more significant?

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

So what does 'Crooked Cross' being the title signify? Is it in German just to shout-out that we're dealing with Nazi Earth in the main chapters of the episode, or something more significant?

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'Crooked Cross' is a reference to the swastika. Specifically, one of the names in German: Krummkreuz. Pretty clear guess OL will be dealing with the Reichsmen, maybe his alternate, and likely encountering the Freedom Fighters.

 

[DrThoth]

I actually misunderstood (maybe because of the late threadmarking) and thought Krummkreuz was being used to title the Transformers segment, but I now see that's called 'Plus Two'. I was just confused over that but now it makes way more sense.

I don't know what happened to Freeman's power ring but I hope Paragon helps him recover it or gives him some gear or something.

Thinking about alternate selves, is Blue Lantern Paul going to show up again at any point? I'm actually completely blanking on whether he was there at the Crisis of Infinite Pauls or not, when I remember Red, Indigo and Black being quite prominent.

 

[Ngamer11]

I don't know what happened to Freeman's power ring but I hope Paragon helps him recover it or gives him some gear or something.

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Overman mentioned that it was confiscated. They did some tests and found that it affected the mind of whoever wears it, so it's most likely in a secure facility.