With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Bramble Thorn]

He ragequit his name, Shazamo, when he and Oggar had a falling out.

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Do titles count?
Like when OL goes to the Rock of Destiny to discuss updating the Z, and how killing and soul binding necromancy on Teth Adom was a really dick move on account of not bothering to make sure Teth actually did the stuff you were killing him for, he could also bring up dusting off the old 'O' and adding the 'Empathy' of Orange Lantern to the powerset? The 'can see/detect peoples desires, and use them to teleport to their location' thing.

SHAJAM even sounds similar

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Going to be honest here, SHAJAM sounds like a crossover between the movie Space Jam (featuring Michael Jordon) and Kazaam (featuring genie SHAQ)

Where the transformative lightning strike turns you into a Pro NBA basketball player.

 

[RichardWhereat]

He ragequit his name, Shazamo, when he and Oggar had a falling out.

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That was a personal falling out between Oggar and Shazamo, not the same thing here with Zeus.

Faith wise Thor was and still is the most worshipped of the Norse Gods, inverse crosses are called Thor Hammers for a reason.

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They're the cross of St Peter, who was crucified upside down. Which is why it's on the throne of st peter in the vatican. Ironically used by anti-christianity groups when in catholicism it means humility to christ.

But yes, Thor is most worshipped.

 

[Stsword]

Where the transformative lightning strike turns you into a Pro NBA basketball player.

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Obviously part of the Justice League of Athletes with Wonderous Serena.

 

[Radix]

Now that I think about it, this just sounds like a silly Shazam plot.
"I may not have been able to defeat you before Shazam, but now that I've dethroned Zeus, there's nothing you can do to stop me!"

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Silly? This seems like a rational plot and an interesting story actually. Shazam villain teams up with some greek villain to dethrone Zeus or one of the others to disrupt his power. Forces him to compensate ny being clever and can even do a crossover with Wonder Woman. Kind of reminds me of Faust teaming up with Hades in JLU.

 

[rkyeun]

Almost missed this...
We have a prime example of a bad author hand wave here.
It wasn't "oh we worked out something to cut him off" because less then a dozen chapters ago it was established that nobody could do that. It's just him randomly getting cut off for no named in universe reason.

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The broken clock strikes the right time. Can't believe I'm going to leave a like on a Vaerminapost.

 

[Pinklestia]

They're the cross of St Peter,

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Yeah because Christians have never stole stuff from other religions... come on, even the Simpsons made fun of that!

 

[Michael Vonica]

Silly? This seems like a rational plot and an interesting story actually. Shazam villain teams up with some greek villain to dethrone Zeus or one of the others to disrupt his power. Forces him to compensate ny being clever and can even do a crossover with Wonder Woman. Kind of reminds me of Faust teaming up with Hades in JLU.

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I meant that it would be silly, because if the villain had the power and cunning to dethrone Zeus, he probably could have beat Shazam without even doing the first step. Silly, but potentially fun.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Yeah because Christians have never stole stuff from other religions... come on, even the Simpsons made fun of that!

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The Cross of St Peter as a symbol predates Christians meeting the Norse by centuries.

 

[Darko]

Also, funny that the Flash told Captain Marvel that he should go see OL preemptively.
Like he knew the Z in SHAZAM was for Zeus, who OL was gunning for.
"If something beaks, go see the person who probably broke it.

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Green Arrow was the one that told him.

And it's possible that he told him way before any of this Zeus business.

Thor is public domain, but that would make it SHATAM...ugh

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Yeah, not the best thing.

I forget if this has been covered or not in WTR and whether or not it was different from Hesiod's version of the myth, but didn't Heracles free Prometheus?

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That's saud he did, but maybe Zeus gave him another punishment.

I don't think the egocentric wizard is willing to change his name just because a God got powered down.

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Heck, he may even be unable to do if his other name has some mystical components.

Yep. Hera has always been a monster. She's a greek god not named Hestia.

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I think Zoat changed it in this story so that Althouse bad stories about her were just stories told by the descendants of Herakles.

 

[Cuchulin]

The Cross of St Peter as a symbol predates Christians meeting the Norse by centuries.

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Direct contact, but Germanic peoples had contact with and had converted to Christianity centuries before that. Also, I doubt that the symbols that look like Thor's Hammer or the Cross of St Peter are rare. A Labrys pendant that hangs head down could also look a lot either of those.

 

[Vaermina]

You know what would be neet?

If what we saw was Hephaestus starting down the path to going full on "people are just replaceable cogs to the great machine" and like a year from now LePaul has to hunt down and return Zeus to power because he's the only one with an actual shot at doing it.

 

[RichardWhereat]

I think Zoat changed it in this story so that Althouse bad stories about her were just stories told by the descendants of Herakles.

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Yes, I know. Probably one of the few things I dislike about this story. Zoat whitewashes a child murderer/attempted child murderer, but keeps the dirt on Zeus and Apollon.

I doubt that the symbols that look like Thor's Hammer or the Cross of St Peter are rare. A Labrys pendant that hangs head down could also look a lot either of those.

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Yeah, it is an extremely common and simple geometric symbol.

 

[Vaermina]

Yes, I know. Probably one of the few things I dislike about this story. Zoat whitewashes a child murderer/attempted child murderer, but keeps the dirt on Zeus and Apollon.

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Zoat had to.

Because if he didn't whitewash Hera, then LePaul would have been in the wrong for helping her.

 

[_The_Bomb]

It's a bit more than emerging at this point. This has been going on for five-ish pages and easily 12+ hours.

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Eh, it was new to me. Yesterday was the start of a major holiday called Pesach that kept me away from the computer for ages. Alas.

 

[Prince Charon]

Direct contact, but Germanic peoples had contact with and had converted to Christianity centuries before that. Also, I doubt that the symbols that look like Thor's Hammer or the Cross of St Peter are rare. A Labrys pendant that hangs head down could also look a lot either of those.

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Also, Nordo-Germanic pendants that look a hell of a lot like the later Thor's Hammer pendents date from something like the Bronze Age. Admittedly, I think part of the problem is that some of the people in this thread are assuming that the Mjolnir pendents all look like the Cross of St. Petrus, when really only some of them do, and others (possibly most of them) just look like an upside-down hammer.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Regnancy

28th October 2012
09:15 GMT -5

"U-um."

"Oh." He looks at me uncomfortably. "Did you..? Do something?"

"Yesss. Yes, I did. Ah, how quickly do you need to change back?"

"I got school tomorrow? W-? Why?"

"The fastest way to turn you back would probably be to get Adom or Osiris-. What's happening with Lieutenant Marvel and Mary Marvel?"

"Mary's stuck in normal mode." He shrugs. "Freddy's still in bed. I mean, it is a Sunday. But you think Amon could transform us?"

"Maybe? I've never tried studying the spell that transforms you. I didn't even know you'd.. be affected like this."

"Oh, ah, yeah, the Wizard says you're not allowed to study the spell. Ah, or anyone else. I think he… I think he thinks you're a bad influence."

…

"Yeah, that's… That's fair. Of course, since I haven't studied the spell, and since Adom and Amon use different gods, it might just not work."

His eyes narrow suspiciously. "Did you..? Do something to Zeus?"

"He's not.. dead or anything. Just… Feeling a little under the weather."

"Isn't he the God of Weather?"

"No, the-. It's a metaphor. The point is, they might not be able to turn you back, so we might need to work out something else. Has the Wizard said anything?"

William looks away awkwardly. "See, Zeus's Power is how I visit him, so I can't really get there right now?"

"Darn it. Um, okay. How does the… Sponsoring you thing work?"

"Oh, the Wizard handles all of that. I've never even met any of them."

"Okay. So… Zeus lost his link to the titans in Tartarus, but he kept his own-."

Or did he? What exactly did Hephaestaean take away when he cast him out? And he… Didn't give it to someone else. He just locked it away from Zeus. So… A lightning bolt. The Cyclopes, perhaps? Or just ask Hephaestaean to arrange for a substitute until Zeus sorts himself out.

"If Zeus is unavailable, do you have any preference as to who substitutes for him?"

"I guess… As long as it works. I just got kinda used to saying 'Shazam'. And shouldn't we try using Amon's lightning first?"

"That will turn you back into William Batson so you can go to school tomorrow. But-."

"But I can't just get them to transform me whenever I need to transform." He nods. "Billy doesn't need to do anything today, so I can just come-." He realises something. "Do you need to do something else today?"

"Explain to Batman why I thought overthrowing Zeus was a good idea, but I'm happy to put that off for a few hours." Hm. "Have you ever used anything else to transform?"

"One time, Freddy transformed me by saying 'Shazam' and dodging out the way so the lightning bolt hit me instead. Oh, hey." He smiles. "Shazam. Shazam! Shazaaaaaaam."

I look at him in confusion for a moment.

He shrugs. "I can say it without transforming. I haven't been able to do that for a while."

"Does the word 'Shazam' come up a lot in conversation?"

"It didn't, and then I couldn't say it?"

I nod. "I understand. Okay, let's try…" I raise my left hand to my mouth. "Orange Lantern to Osiris. Orange Lantern to Osiris. Come-."

"Osiris here! Am I late already?"

"No, no. Captain Marvel has a problem we're hoping that you can help with. Could you-?"

"Recognized, Osiris, B One Nine."

Amon flies out of the zeta tube the moment the lights dim, smiling enthusiastically. "How may I help?"

"Hey, Osiris! I'm having trouble transforming right now, and I'm hoping that your lightning can do it."

"You want me to hit you with my lightning?" William nods. "Okay, I-." His head jerks slightly. "Ah. Lord Zehuti says that he doesn't think it works like that."

William nods. "We figured it might not, but it worked with Lieutenant Marvel so I'm hoping it will work with you."

"Before we… Do anything. Amon, have you noticed your powers working differently in the last few hours?"

He blurs up to the ceiling and then slowly flies down. He looks around, then closes his eyes and concentrates for a moment, listening and… smelling.

"No." He opens his eyes, shaking his head. "Everything feels the same."

"Good show. Captain, if… This turns out to hit you like normal lightning, will it..? Hurt you?"

"Yeah, but not too bad." He nods. "I'll be okay."

"Right then." Construct armour, bubble shield and retreat back a small way. "Go ahead."

Amon floats up to William and puts his right hand on his left shoulder. "Are you prepared?"

William nods. "Uh-huh."

"Teth Adom!"

Lightning flashes from nowhere and Amon drops to the ground, having taken the precaution of wearing a copy of his costume on his normal body. William-.

"Ow." Smoke rises off his still-adult body, and he takes a moment to look at his arms. "Oh."

"Okay, that's slightly more of a problem. Do you think the Wizard would be alright with Amon visiting the Rock of Eternity?"

"Ah." He brushes some fragments of ash off his costume. "That should be okay. Un-less… You haven't..? Done anything to Solomon, right?"

"No, and I have no plans to."

"So it should be okay." He turns to Amon. "I can show you where to go."

Amon nods. "I would like to meet the Wizard who murdered my brother."

"And while you're doing that I'll see if I can find out what happened to Zeus's lightning. Ring, find Zeus."

 

[Darko]

"Oh, ah, yeah, the Wizards says you're not allowed to study the spell. Ah, or anyone else. I think he… I think he thinks you're a bad influence

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He has a point.

Batman while I thought overthrowing Zeus

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'why I thought'

but I'm happy to put that off for a few hours.

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I'm sure you are.

"Okay, that's slightly more of a problem. Do you think the Wizard would be alright with Amon visiting the Rock of Eternity

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Probably not, seeing as Amon works with Adom.

Amon nods. "I would like to meet the Wizard who murdered my brother."

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Yep.

"Ah." He brushes some fragments of ash off his costume. "That should be okay. Un-less… You haven't..? Done anything to Solomon, right?"

"No, and I have no plans to

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I wonder what Solomon's been up to.

Still killing people for justice?

Ring, find Zeus

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I'm betting he'll be in a sorority or a fraternity.

 

[Darko]

Zoat, in the spoiler box for this episode the number for every chapter has a link to this chapter.

 

[Oglymogly]

"Okay, that's slightly more of a problem. Do you think the Wizard would be alright with Amon visiting the Rock of Eternity?"

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Oh yeah, let's go see the great and powerful wizard who hates the guy Anon is mystically linked to. I'm sure nothing will go wrong.

 

[PepeTheFrog]

I doubt Zeus has had time to do anything too stupid since being sent to Earth "Trials of Apollo" style. But I also feel like he's going to be obtuse when it comes to helping Paul with anything.

 

[RichardWhereat]

He smiles. "Shazam. Shazam! Shazaaaaaaam."

I look at him in confusion for a moment.

He shrugs. "I can say it without transforming. I haven't been able to do that for a while."

"Does the word 'Shazam' come up a lot in conversation?"

"It didn't, and then I couldn't say it?"

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The main reason why renaming Captain Marvel, Shazam, was a dumbass decision.

 

[Stsword]

In some stories just being hit by regular old lightning will transform Billy back to normal, such as Billy from the Flashpoint movie.

Or here

Sometimes it does nothing because he's invulnerable.

Honestly I kind of like the electricity vulnerability. Superman has magic, red sunlight, and kryptonite, MM has fire (or heat in YJ), WW has had a weakness to piercing and slashing attacks for most of her career, why not electricity for Captain Marvel?

 

[Mr Zoat]

'why I thought'.

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Zoat, in the spoiler box for this episode the number for every chapter has a link to this chapter.

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Amon's brother? As in brother in law? Or am I missing something?

why not electricity for Captain Marvel?

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Because the old noggin runs on electricity.

 

[Vaermina]

"Okay. So… Zeus lost his link to the titans in Tartarus, but he kept his own-."

Or did he? What exactly did Hephaestaean take away when he cast him out? And he… Didn't give it to someone else. He just locked it away from Zeus. So… A lightning bolt. The Cyclopes, perhaps? Or just ask Hephaestaean to arrange for a substitute until Zeus sorts himself out.

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You're still not explaining how Hephaestus just randomly gained the ability to do something Hecate said was impossible.

"Okay, that's slightly more of a problem. Do you think the Wizard would be alright with Amon visiting the Rock of Eternity?"

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No, and he shouldn't be able to since he uses the same power as Teth Adam, who was very specifically locked out by the wizard.

 

[Darko]

Regnancy (Story Only)
Regnancy (part 1)
Regnancy (part 2)
Regnancy (part

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Maybe add the date 28th October above the link.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

Regnancy

28th October 2012
09:15 GMT -5

"U-um."

"Oh." He looks at me uncomfortably. "Did you..? Do something?"

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Oh, boy howdy, did he ever do something, Billy-boy... OL's got a hell of a lot of explaining to do ahead of him. Not just to the league, but to folks like Billy, who use Zeus' power. ...Food for thought: How would Dana Dearden be affected by this, since she's in an alternate future timeline that likely doesn't have a dethroned Zeus.?

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"Yesss. Yes, I did. Ah, how quickly do you need to change back?"

"I got school tomorrow? W-? Why?"

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Well, that's a heck of a time limit to sort this out. roughly 22 hours, assuming Billy wants to shower in his civvy form before school once this is sorted out.

"The fastest way to turn you back would probably be to get Adom or Osiris-. What's happening with Lieutenant Marvel and Mary Marvel?"

"Mary's stuck in normal mode." He shrugs. "Freddy's still in bed. I mean, it is a Sunday. But you think Amon could transform us?"

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Well, at least it's only Billy facing issues with his secret identity.

"Maybe? I've never tried studying the spell that transforms you. I didn't even know you'd.. be affected like this."

"Oh, ah, yeah, the Wizards says you're not allowed to study the spell. Ah, or anyone else. I think he… I think he thinks you're a bad influence."

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Again: "That's fair." I don't doubt the Wizard has very sharp opinions about OL and his deeds.

…

"Yeah, that's… That's fair. Of course, since I haven't studied the spell, and since Adom and Amon use different gods, it might just not work."

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At least he's self-aware about it. And accepting of that opinion. How many DC heroes would say the same if someone said that about them?

His eyes narrow suspiciously. "Did you..? Do something to Zeus?"

"He's not.. dead or anything. Just… Feeling a little under the weather."

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Booo, OL. Save the Dad jokes for when you're actually a father...

"Isn't he the God of Weather?"

"No, the-. It's a metaphor. The point is, they might not be able to turn you back, so we might need to work out something else. Has the Wizard said anything."

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I bet he's panicking a little at the sudden shift in his powerbase...

William looks away awkwardly. "See, Zeus's Power is how I visit him, so I can't really get there right now?"

"Darn it. Um, okay. How does the… Sponsoring you think work?"

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Like Billy's ever thought about it? He's ten, Wisdom of Solomon aside. Logistics is not his strong point.

"Oh, the Wizard handles all of that. I've never even met any of them."

"Okay. So… Zeus lost his link to the titans in Tartarus, but he kept his own-."

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Hold on. How was this accomplished, again? Did anyone think to double-check that?

Or did he? What exactly did Hephaestaean take away when he cast him out? And he… Didn't give it to someone else. He just locked it away from Zeus. So… A lightning bolt. The Cyclopes, perhaps? Or just ask Hephaestaean to arrange for a substitute until Zeus sorts himself out.

"If Zeus is unavailable, do you have any preference as to who substitutes for him?"

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Hephaestaean probably has enough authority as King now to force Zeus to maintain his obligations. But that would have its own consequences, i bet.

"I guess… As long as it works. I just got kinda used to saying 'Shazam'. And shouldn't we try using Amon's lightning first?"

"That will turn you back into William Batson so you can go to school tomorrow. But-."

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On the other hand, if the removal of Zeus' support has removed your resistance to electrical damage... The Stamina of Atlas will only go so far.

"But I can't just get them to transform me whenever I need to transform." He nods. "Billy doesn't need to do anything today, so I can just come-." He realises something. "Do you need to do something else today?"

"Explain to Batman while I thought overthrowing Zeus was a good idea, but I'm happy to put that off for a few hours." Hm. "Have you ever used anything else to transform?"

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How considerate of Billy. Though I fear for Bruce's blood pressure when he hears about this.

"One time, Freddy transformed me by saying 'Shazam' and dodging out the way so the lightning bolt hit me instead. Oh, hey." He smiles. "Shazam. Shazam! Shazaaaaaaam."

I look at him in confusion for a moment.

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...Really? The Wizard didn't think to add an 'intent clause' to the transformation phrase? Lazy ass.

He shrugs. "I can say it without transforming. I haven't been able to do that for a while."

"Does the word 'Shazam' come up a lot in conversation?"

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Only in superheroic circles, I suspect.

"It didn't, and then I couldn't say it?"

I nod. "I understand. Okay, let's try…" I raise my left hand to my mouth. "Orange Lantern to Osiris. Orange Lantern to Osiris. Come-."

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Best to get things started now. Time is of the essence.

"Osiris here! Am I late already?"

"No, no. Captain Marvel has a problem we're hoping that you can help with. Could you-?"

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And boy, does that sound wrong, if you look at it the right way.

"Recognized, Osiris, B One Nine."

Amon flies out of the zeta tube the moment the lights dim, smiling enthusiastically. "How may I help?"

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Swiftness of Heru for the win.

"Hey, Osiris! I'm having trouble transforming right now, and I'm hoping that your lightning can do it."

"You want me to hit you with my lightning?" William nods. "Okay, I-." His head jerks slightly. "Ah. Lord Zehuti says that he doesn't think it works like that."

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Ha! Joy of a God of Magic providing your Wisdom. Clear Word of literal God about spell mechanics and loopholes.

William nods. "We figured it might not, but it worked with Lieutenant Marvel so I'm hoping it will work with you."

"Before we… Do anything. Amon, have you noticed your powers working differently in the last few hours?"

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Different pantheon, OL. But work checking, I suppose. Just for completeness' sake. Like the old 'turn it off and back on' trouble-shooting advice.

He blurs up to the ceiling and then slowly flies down. He looks around, then closes his eyes and concentrates for a moment, listening and… smelling.

"No." He opens his eyes, shaking his head. "Everything feels the same."

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Thankfully, their powers are relatively easy to test and gauge. Good old FISS package, mental stuff aside.

"Good show. Captain, if… This turns out to hit you like normal lightning, will it..? Hurt you?"

"Yeah, but not too bad." He nods. "I'll be okay."

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Well, if you're confident about it. It's your ass that'll be smoking if you're wrong.

"Right then." Construct armour, bubble shield and retreat back a small way. "Go ahead."

Amon floats up to William and puts his right hand on his left shoulder. "Are you prepared?"

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Thanks goodness they don't need open air for this. Would be rough on the old secret identity.

William nods. "Uh-huh."

"Teth Adom!"

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...Because Amon has the same deal as Lieutenant Marvel: He calls the name of his partner rather than the Wizard... Probably makes it hard to talk about him. I'm picturing Freddy using nicknames like 'Marvel' or 'The Captain'...

Lightning flashes from nowhere and Adom drops to the ground, having taken the precaution of wearing a copy of his costume on his normal body. William-.

"Ow." Smoke rises off his still-adult body, and he takes a moment to look at his arms. "Oh."

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The joy of not physically changing for your transformation. No giveaway to tell the bad guys you're now powerless.

"Okay, that's slightly more of a problem. Do you think the Wizard would be alright with Amon visiting the Rock of Eternity?"

"Ah." He brushes some fragments of ash off his costume. "That should be okay. Un-less… You haven't..? Done anything to Solomon, right?"

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...Well, this could get awkward. Let's hope the Wizard doesn't tar Amon with the crimes of his mentor.

"No, and I have no plans to."

"So it should be okay." He turns to Amon. "I can show you where to go."

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As long as you don't turn left at the second star and head straight. That's completely the wrong alternate dimension.

Amon nods. "I would like to meet the Wizard who murdered my brother."

"And while you're doing that I'll see if I can find out what happened to Zeus's lightning. Ring, find Zeus."

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Bets on the ring not being able to do so?

Well, time to see how well Zeus is taking his sudden disempowerment. Hopefully he's at least patched himself back together. Personally, I picture him having staggered into the nearest bar and drown his sorrows in ouzo (since I doubt they'd have ambrosia.) Which means he's likely in jail, after either a drunken fight or an inability to pay. At any rate, we'll see how willing he is to honour his obligations concerning certain wizards.

---

"Darn it. Um, okay. How does the… Sponsoring you think work?"

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"Darn it. Um, okay. How does the… Sponsoring you thing work?"

...to arrange for a substitute until...

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Double Space.

"Explain to Batman while I thought overthrowing Zeus was a good idea...

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"Explain to Batman why I thought overthrowing Zeus was a good idea...

 

[Senevri]

Well, the gods granting Billy's powers did change in the comics. Let me check...

In response, the Wizard replaced the gods inside of Billy with new gods to derive his powers from: S'ivaa, H'ronmeer, Anapel, Zonuz, Atë, Mamaragan. The Justice League, with Shazam among them, managed to fend off the war on their world after the Anti-Monitor was killed as well.

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So, the wizard has a plan for that.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Well, the gods granting Billy's powers did change in the comics. Let me check...

In response, the Wizard replaced the gods inside of Billy with new gods to derive his powers from: S'ivaa, H'ronmeer, Anapel, Zonuz, Atë, Mamaragan. The Justice League, with Shazam among them, managed to fend off the war on their world after the Anti-Monitor was killed as well.

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So, the wizard has a plan for that.

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And it'll be good to see what god Zoat chooses to replace Zeus with a Z.

 

[Darko]

Food for thought: How would Dana Dearden be affected by this, since she's in an alternate future timeline that likely doesn't have a dethroned Zeus.?

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Even if she loses the Zeus powers, she may still have the other ones.

...Because Amon has the same deal as Lieutenant Marvel: He calls the name of his partner rather than the Wizard... Probably makes it hard to talk about him

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Unless he just refers to him as Teth or Adom.

The joy of not physically changing for your transformation. No giveaway to tell the bad guys you're now powerless.

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Plus Amon has the Danner Formula treatment, so even without divine power he should be fine.