With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

hance1986 · Jun 20, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
so I assume that there's some sort of clever energy weapon build into it.

built

Mr Zoat · Jun 20, 2022

hance1986 said:
built

Thank you, corrected.

Bud-E · Jun 20, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
...

Yeah, I haven't actually watched the X-Men cartoon from that continuety. So... Pass.

Which X-Men show was in the same continuity as Earth's mightiest heroes?

BrotherofaStudio · Jun 20, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
...

Yeah, I haven't actually watched the X-Men cartoon from that continuety. So... Pass.

I... See... That... Complicates things...

BrotherofaStudio · Jun 20, 2022

Bud-E said:
Which X-Men show was in the same continuity as Earth's mightiest heroes?

Wolverine and the X-Men

Bud-E · Jun 20, 2022

BrotherofaStudio said:
Wolverine and the X-Men

Really but Rouge's a grown woman in that show at least I thought she was
Edit:And Magneto was running Genosha in Wolverine and the X-Men

BrotherofaStudio · Jun 20, 2022

Bud-E said:
Really but Rouge's a grown woman in that show at least I thought she was

Whatever the case, that is the X-Men show that officially shares a universe with Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

Radix · Jun 20, 2022

Based on Rogue being a teenager I would assume this either just assumes that WatXM isnt canon since that isnt ever used and instead adapts in comics akin to Earth 16; or that it maybe uses Evolution since that is the only show that has teenage Rogue. But it doesnt have the Shiar either.

Ngamer11 · Jun 20, 2022

I thought Mr Zoat was using a version of the 90's X-Men series, since I believe he used a clip from there.

PDV · Jun 20, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Oh, I'm not going to fight you. I can make you leave-" I hold up my right forefinger. "-with a single word."

"A word." I nod. "What word is that?"

I was expecting "Brand", but this works better.

Chojin Patriarch said:
EMH!OL

Efficient Market Hypothesis!OL? ...probably that one that employs former supervillains.

Bud-E · Jun 20, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Zeus's 'wisdom' doesn't even remind him to put a condom on

"You think I'm Zeus's nemesis?

Mr Zoat Found an old error. I'm pretty sure that English plural words that end in 's' would have an apostrophe no extra 's' so it would be "Zeus' nemesis/wisdom"
BTW: What does Eris look like? I like the New52 Eris design but I know you don't put anything Post-Flashpoint in your fic.

Mr Zoat · Jun 20, 2022

Bud-E said:
Really but Rouge's a grown woman in that show at least I thought she was
Edit:And Magneto was running Genosha in Wolverine and the X-Men

Ah! Easy solution, then. I just have to say that it happens years later. I don't think there was any crossover.

Bud-E said:
Mr Zoat Found an old error. I'm pretty sure that English plural words that end in 's' would have an apostrophe no extra 's' so it would be "Zeus' nemesis/wisdom"

It's a perfectly cromulent word.

BTW: What does Eris look like? I like the New52 Eris design but I know you don't put anything Post-Flashpoint in your fic.

I'm okay with the Nu52 design for Eris. It makes her stand out.

Darko · Jun 20, 2022

Ngamer11 said:
I thought Mr Zoat was using a version of the 90's X-Men series, since I believe he used a clip from there.

That probably was the Paul that joined the X-Men and not the Avengers.

Mr Zoat said:
I'm okay with the Nu52 design for Eris. It makes her stand out.

If I remember correctly, her pre n52 self looked kinda like a female Ares.

Ngamer11 · Jun 20, 2022

Darko said:
That probably was the Paul that joined the X-Men and not the Avengers.

Did I imagine Mr Zoat including a link from the 90's show that had Rogue be disowned by her father then?

Coda · Jun 20, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Princess Lilandra is dating my daughter's head master."

Usually "headmaster", I think?

Mr Zoat · Jun 21, 2022

Coda said:
Usually "headmaster", I think?

A quick google suggests that both are okay.

Bramble Thorn · Jun 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
The door swings open, a… Professionally dressed Sanderson Hawkins standing in the doorway. He smiles as he sees who it is.

So, this guy just shows up here, no introduction at all, with everyone acting like they know him.

No link to his comic page if he is new to the story.
No link to the last episode he appeared in if he has been in the story before.
What gives?

Mr Zoat said:
"Right, but is it important for Earth to become part of the Kree Empire now, where there are a great many other things you could so with the resources it would take, and when your own second looks like he's extremely dubious of the idea that we have any use at all? Is there an advantage that I'm not seeing?"

do

Assblaster5000 · Jun 21, 2022

Bramble Thorn said:
What gives?

Zoat doesn't usually link to people who have already appeared in-story in the actual chapters, and Sandy first appeared several episodes ago, though I can't remember exactly where. In-universe I believe it was, at most, a year ago.

thebishop8 · Jun 21, 2022

Bramble Thorn said:
So, this guy just shows up here, no introduction at all, with everyone acting like they know him.

No link to his comic page if he is new to the story.
No link to the last episode he appeared in if he has been in the story before.
What gives?

He's only appeared once before as far as I can tell, in part 19 of episode 100, with only a few mentions to go with it. That chapter was posted almost two years ago. Both of those together isn't going to lead to something memorable.

Radix · Jun 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Ah! Easy solution, then. I just have to say that it happens years later. I don't think there was any crossover.

It's a perfectly cromulent word.

I'm okay with the Nu52 design for Eris. It makes her stand out.

There was no crossover. The only real referemce was Fury mentioning the MRD in one episode plus word of god. Wolverine appearwd in EMH, but no real reference.

And it beign set after EMH makes sense a lot actually. EMH seems fairly young as far as universes go. Maybe 5 years of activity at most by the time of Breakout.

Meanwhile WatXM is a fairly mature universe that alreasy had the team for a while before they broke up after the mansion blew up. Kitty is an adult even.

I would recommend WatXM. It was a pretty good show aside from the mandated Wolverine publicity. But I did find the reversed dynamic of him and Scott interesting where Logan needs to step up outside his comfort zone while Scott deals with loss and becomes the brooding loner.

w34v3r · Jun 21, 2022

Vaermina said:
Except that's not what he did.

He threatened to join one specific group.

Yes, and the other side backed down before he did that.

So Paul is free to play a similar card next time someone rolls up with intent to conquer.

He's not constrained by his play here, he would have been if he'd actually followed through, which he might have had to if the Kree got serious, but they didn't.

If the Shi-ar get uppity, he can make a similar threat with another faction, if the Skrulls get to poking around he can threaten to go to the Kree, if the fire giants get grabby he can threaten to sign on with Asgard. There's enough factions with an interest in earth that Paul can use them all to hold each other off.

Cuchulin · Jun 21, 2022

w34v3r said:
Yes, and the other side backed down before he did that.
So Paul is free to play a similar card next time someone rolls up with intent to conquer.
He's not constrained by his play here, he would have been if he'd actually followed through, which he might have had to if the Kree got serious, but they didn't.
If the Shi-ar get uppity, he can make a similar threat with another faction, if the Skrulls get to poking around he can threaten to go to the Kree, if the fire giants get grabby he can threaten to sign on with Asgard. There's enough factions with an interest in earth that Paul can use them all to hold each other off.

The threat of Asgard has the most credibility as he knows Thor quite well and is dating Hela.

Mr Zoat · Jun 21, 2022

Bramble Thorn said:
do

Thank you, corrected.

Mr Zoat · Jun 21, 2022

8th November 2012
16:57 GMT +3

We're halfway across Erebos before Zagreus catches up with us on his flying chariot.

"Lanterns and… New person. I assume that I have you to thank for the demon and the immortal wizard who recently visited me in my father's palace?"

"Actually, the general plan was Doctor Balewa's idea. I just suggested that we enter the Dream from here."

"Why do you want to physically enter the Dream? Is my sister involved?"

"Melinoë isn't involved, and if Doctor Balewa didn't tell you then I probably shouldn't. This isn't something that can become widely known."

His face hardens. "Thanks to your bizarre effort at marriage counselling, I have been forced to remain in Erebos in case matters arise that my father does not remember how to deal with. Erebos is not your playground and you may not simply come and go as you please."

Sanderson looks at Zagreus for a moment, then looks at me. "Are you going to introduce us?"

"This is Prince Zagreus, God of Trapping and son of Hades, God of the Dead. Zagreus, this is Sanderson Hawkins."

Sanderson looks confused. "You're a god?"

Zagreus nods curtly. "And you are-." His eyes widen slightly. "What are you?"

"I'm-. Sandman. A super hero."

"I can feel the-. The Dream's magic throughout-."

Alan nods. "We're sorry for keeping you out of the loop, Zagreus, but… Ah, if there's one thing spending time with Paul has taught me… Sometimes it's really best not to ask."

…

That's fair. But it's actually true here. If we lose -or at least fail to achieve our primary objective- then John Quinn might take revenge against Erebos for allowing us to use the portal. Doubly so if he knew in advance.

Then again…

"Zagreus, what is my position in the Olympic pantheon?"

He frowns. "Your posit-?" A moment of realisation, and a small nod. "You are Hephaestaean's herald."

"Yes. So I actually do have the right to come through here without explicit permission. You could argue that I should have gotten permission for Alan and Sanderson, but I don't think that's actually true. I will thank you for your cooperation upon my return."

"You intend to speak to-? Why would-? No. No, I do not need to know. You have introduced enough chaos into my life."

"That's what I do."

"Then I will make a request that you visit my father's home once your business in concluded and you can explain it to me."

I nod. "Circumstances permitting, I will."

"I would wish you good fortune, but I suspect that your enemies will need it more."

He tugs the reins, his perfectly normal horses turning in the air to return him to the palace.

Sanderson watches him go. "I thought a god would be… I don't know… Bigger?"

"You could put that in the suggestions box."

"What's a 'suggestions box'?"

"Exactly what it sounds like."

The three of us finally finish flying over the Fields Formerly Known As Punishment and begin our descent towards the Gate of Horn and Ivory. The area around here is a place the priestesses of some Amazon cults make pilgrimage to, due to the… Intrusion of the Dream into Erebos and the mixing of their magics. There are some very strange creatures in the surrounding area, but those aren't our problem today.

"If you see something that you think should be changed, you write your suggestion down and post it in the box. Every so often, someone from management comes down, opens the box up and burns the content."

Alan lets out a burst of surprised laughter.

Sanderson doesn't get it. "Then why does anyone write anything?"

"They don't do it where the staff can see. The idea is to make people identify more with the company than they ordinarily would, giving the impression that they have input in its decisions. People commit more to things they were involved in deciding. Or things they think they were involved in deciding."

I shrug.

"And thus: democracy."

"But I can set fire to paper just fine by myself-. No, wait just a minute." He sounds upset. "Are you serious?"

"Well, the idea of the national struggle comes from revolutionary France, as distinct from aristocrats fighting over their own concerns and dragging the local peasants into it. The idea is that The People have decided to fight and therefore every citizen is obliged to get involved however they personally feel about it."

"But surely they don't burn the ballot papers."

"Paul." Alan raises his right hand with a small shake of his head. "I don't think that Sandy's quite ready for… You, yet."

"I'm sorry. Trustworthy elections have election monitors from either all involved parties or entirely uninvolved parties precisely to make sure that things like that don't happen. Because if it does happen, it completely destroys confidence in the process, even if it doesn't happen very often, because people need to know that their contribution meant something."

"So that whole thing you just did was a joke? Kinda dark, don't you think?"

"Civilisation needs both people who see all that it could be and people who see what it could become. And it's helpful if they talk to each other." As we land, I point to the two people waiting for us. "Case in point. Allow me to introduce Doctor Nommo Balewa, aka Doctor Mist, and The Demon Constantine. Constantine, say something uplifting!"

He affects a look of confusion for a moment, before shrugging. "If you're short-sighted when you're young, you'll eventually get perfect vision 'cause of how the muscles in your eyes get weaker with age. Lasts for about a week, then you start being long-sighted and need completely different glasses."

"Doctor Balewa?"

"All things thet live are linked by a shared vital force. No matter where we are in the universe, we are near things thet are kin to us."

"Thank you, point proven."

"It is good to meet you, Sanderson Hawkins."

"You too, sir."

No hesitation there. That's what comes of being friends with William Everett.

"Are there any preparations we need to do?"

"No." Dr. Balewa turns and strides towards the gate. "We should begin our journey at once."

Ngamer11 · Jun 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"This is Prince Zagreus, God of Trapping and son of Hades, God of the Dead. Zagreus, this is Sanderson Hawkins."

I thought Zagreus was the god of hunting? Or is that just Artemis, and Zagreus is specifically the act of trapping?

Mr Zoat said:
Sanderson looks confused. "You're a god?"

Zagreus nods curtly. "And you are-." His eyes widen slightly. "What are you?"

"I'm-. Sandman. A super hero."

"I can feel the-. The Dream's magic throughout-."

Alan nods. "We're sorry for keeping you out of the loop, Zagreus, but… Ah, if there's one thing spending time with Paul has taught me… Sometimes it's really best not to ask."

I enjoy seeing Paul's actions baffle people of all power levels.

Cuchulin · Jun 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"If you see something that you think should be changed, you write your suggestion down and post it in the box. Every so often, someone from management comes down, opens the box up and burns the content."

Nah, burning the content would be too much trouble. More likely they read and laugh at a few before throwing them all in the trash or recycle.

NightmareWarden · Jun 21, 2022

Could Dream use Sanderson's body to mold dream-sapients, empowered beings like Diana?

Would their metaphors for death and the afterlife relate to sandcastles crumbling from the ocean waves?

Is Paul's suggestion box anecdote directly ripped from a Pratchet work?

Darko · Jun 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Alan nods. "We're sorry for keeping you out of the loop, Zagreus, but… Ah, if there's one thing spending time with Paul has taught me… Sometimes it's really best not to ask."

True.

Mr Zoat said:
Paul." Alan raises his right hand with a small shake of his head. "I don't think that Sandy's quite ready for… You, yet."

No one is.

Ngamer11 said:
I thought Zagreus was the god of hunting? Or is that just Artemis, and Zagreus is specifically the act of trapping

Well he'd still be affiliated with hunting.

Duke Long · Jun 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
We're halfway across Erebos before Zagreus' catches up

Extraneous '

Mr Zoat said:
we are near things that are kin

'thet'

Mr Zoat said:
You intend to speak to-? Why would-?

I wonder who he's thinking of. Dream?

Mr Zoat said:
No hesitation there. That's what comes of being friends with William Everett.

I hadn't thought about how Sanderson could have been racist. I guess the Justice Society was very progressive. I wonder if they sped up the anti-racism movement by simply being extremely powerful figures who weren't racist.

Chojin Patriarch · Jun 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
8th November 2012
16:57 GMT +3

We're halfway across Erebos before Zagreus' catches up with us on his flying chariot.

"Lanterns and… New person. I assume that I have you to thank for the demon and the immortal wizard who recently visited me in my father's palace?"

If I remember right, he's currently serving as regent of Erebos, yes? Only natural he'd come to check on the intrusion of unfamiliar souls then. I'm guessing the good Doctor had to do some very persuasive talking to convince him to allow the Demon's presence.

"Actually, the general plan was Doctor Balewa's idea. I just suggested that we enter the Dream from here."

"Why do you want to physically enter the Dream? Is my sister involved?"

As hard as it might be to believe, Zaggy, the world doesn't revolve around the affairs of the Olympians.

But OL being involved is very easy to understand.

"Melinoë isn't involved, and if Doctor Balewa didn't tell you then I probably shouldn't. This isn't something that can become widely known."

His face hardens. "Thanks to your bizarre effort at marriage counselling, I have been forced to remain in Erebos in case matters arise that my father does not remember how to deal with. Erebos is not your playground and you may not simply come and go as you please."

How is that going, by the by? Any juicy gossip from their dates?

Sanderson looks at Zagreus for a moment, then looks at me. "Are you going to introduce us?"

"This is Prince Zagreus, God of Trapping and son of Hades, God of the Dead. Zagreus, this is Sanderson Hawkins."

Trapping, eh? I suppose it is a form of hunstman-craft. And probably minimises confusion with Artemis' more aggressive portfolio of Hunting.

Sanderson looks confused. "You're a god?"

Zagreus nods curtly. "And you are-." His eyes widen slightly. "What are you?"

Besides rather handsome? Living sand probably isn't something he's ever seen before.

"I'm-. Sandman. A super hero."

"I can feel the-. The Dream's magic throughout-."

You need to be a little more confident, Sanderson. Don't ask people if you're a hero, declare it loudly. Preferably after you've knocked out the bad guys from ambush, mind. No point taking risks, even if you might be rather more durable than your mentor was.

Alan nods. "We're sorry for keeping you out of the loop, Zagreus, but… Ah, if there's one thing spending time with Paul has taught me… Sometimes it's really best not to ask."

…

Yes, OL, they're serious. You are something of an acquired taste...

That's fair. But it's actually true here. If we lose -or at least fail to achieve our primary objective- then John Quinn might take revenge against Erebos for allowing us to use the portal. Doubly so if he knew in advance.

Then again…

He might be a little wary of taking on a pantheon, even one going through some reorganisation.

"Zagreus, what is my position in the Olympic pantheon?"

He frowns. "Your posit-?" A moment of realisation, and a small nod. "You are Hephaestaean's herald."

Not a completely formal posting, I take it, but a convenient legal loophole. I presume Hermes is still negotiating his updated position with Hephaestaean.

"Yes. So I actually do have the right to come through here without explicit permission. You could argue that I should have gotten permission for Alan and Sanderson, but I don't think that's actually true. I will thank you for your cooperation upon my return."

"You intend to speak to-? Why would-? No. No, I do not need to know. You have introduced enough chaos into my life."

See, Zaggy, you're learning. In this case, what you don't know won't give you a headache trying to understand it.

"That's what I do."

"Then I will make a request that you visit my father's home once your business in concluded and you can explain it to me."

Hope you plan to have some aspirin handy, then.

I nod. "Circumstances permitting, I will."

"I would wish you good fortune, but I suspect that your enemies will need it more."

Also true. Of course, given the Constantine Luck...

He tugs the reins, his perfectly normal horses turning in the air to return him to the palace.

Sanderson watches him go. "I thought a god would be… I don't know… Bigger?"

What, were you expecting a figure three times the height of a man, with a tunic the colour of blood, pinned with skulls?

"You could put that in the suggestions box."

"What's a 'suggestions box'?"

I suspect Zagreus hasn't introduced that modern convenience, and doesn't plan to. Easy enough for someone to come find him if they want to offer their thoughts.

"Exactly what it sounds like."

The three of us finally finish flying over the Fields Formerly Known As Punishment and begin our descent towards the Gate of Horn and Ivory. The area around here is a place the priestesses of some Amazon cults make pilgrimage to, due to the… Intrusion of the Dream into Erebos and the mixing of their magics. There are some very strange creatures in the surrounding area, but those aren't our problem today.

The passage into Dream's realm, and more often than not a direct route to his castle. Hopefully they won't have to challenge the guards: The Gryphon, Hippogryph and Wyvern.

"If you see something that you think should be changed, you write your suggestion down and post it in the box. Every so often, someone from management comes down, opens the box up and burns the content."

Alan lets out a burst of surprised laughter.

Yeah, I expect he's had to deal with that sort of upper management in his time.

Sanderson doesn't get it. "Then why does anyone write anything?"

"They don't do it where the staff can see. The idea is to make people identify more with the company than they ordinarily would; giving the impression that they have input in its decisions. People commit more to things they were involved in deciding. Or things they think they were involved in deciding."

Also, OL is making a joke. I mean, burning the contents? These days, that'd get them penalised for environmentally unfriendly practices.

It'd be straight to the recycling bin!

I shrug.

"And thus: democracy."

"But I can set fire to paper just fine by myself-. No, wait just a minute." He sounds upset. "Are you serious?"

...And this is why Alan didn't want him hanging out with you, OL. Your sense of humour is rather.. elevated.

"Well, the idea of the national struggle comes from revolutionary France, as distinct from aristocrats fighting over their own concerns and dragging the local peasants into it. The idea is that The People have decided to fight and therefore every citizens is obliged to get involved however they personally feel about it."

"But surely they don't burn the ballot papers."

Sadly the theatre of politics is all about the imagery.

"Paul." Alan raises his right hand with a small shake of his head. "I don't think that Sandy's quite ready for… You, yet."

"I'm sorry. Trustworthy elections have election monitors from either all involved parties or entirely uninvolved parties precisely to make sure that things like that don't happen. Because if it does happen, it completely destroys confidence in the process, even if it doesn't happen very often, because people need to know that their contribution meant something."

OL... Just... Let it go, before you break his faith in modern culture entirely...

"So that whole thing you just did was a joke? Kinda dark, don't you think?"

"Civilisation needs both people who see all that it could be and people who see what it could become. And it's helpful if they talk to each other." As we land, I point to the two people waiting for us. "Case in point. Allow me to introduce Doctor Nommo Balewa, aka Doctor Mist, and The Demon Constantine. Constantine, say something uplifting!"

And which side of that divide do you fall on, OL, hmm?

He affects a look of confusion for a moment, before shrugging. "If you're short sighted when you're young, you'll eventually get perfect vision 'cause of how the muscles in your eyes get weaker with age. Lasts for about a week, then you start being long sighted and need completely different glasses."

"Doctor Balewa?"

Huh, I'm amazed he rolled with what he'd see as a non-sequitor. But then, why pass up the chance to fuck with the good guys?

"All things thet live are linked by a shared vital force. No matter where we are in the universe, we are near things that are kin to us."

"Thank you, point proven."

Well, he is Enlightened. He's more than well aware of those connections, even if not consciously.

"It is good to meet you, Sanderson Hawkins."

"You too, sir."

No hesitation there. That's what comes of being friends with William Everett.

That would be Amazing Man, one of DC's less well-known characters. A hero during the War, and a colleague of Sandy's during the All-Star Squadron days.

"Are there any preparations we need to do?"

"No." Dr. Balewa turns and strides towards the gate. "We should begin our journey at once."

And here comes the ~~acid-trip~~ road-trip.

Well, Sanderson is getting quite the tour of the weirder side of the heroing life, isn't he? The Greek afterlife, and then a trip into the realm of dreams. What's next, a trip to space?

At any rate, good to see no time being wasted. The sooner they sort this out, the sooner things can get back to a new normal. Or at least what passes for normal with OL involved.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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